Public Encouraged To Reduce Plastic Bag Usage By 1 Bag Per Person Per Day

[01322521959]

I tried to use my own shopping bag in Tesco, but the girl simply pushed them aside and still filled their own plastic bags.

If we don't get plastic bags from the stores, we will have to BUY plastic bin liners to put in our waste bins in before putting in the condo waste chute. At least most plastic bags in Thailand get used twice even if they still end up polluting the land fill sites.

Now come on, mate. You have to try a bit harder. I have had 2 big strong white plastic bags which I always carry inside my rucksack. Had them for about 5 years. Used them in Tescos both here and in the UK. Yes the BDT does try to put my stuff in a new bag and I get some kind of perverse pleasure waving my smelly old bag under her nose and putting my best irritated look on my face.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

PB, it is ignorance like yours that magnifies the global problems.

Are all of these ok by your thinking?

Have you heard the saying 'every little bit helps"

Plastic bags are one single problem in a huge problem of garbage in general.

Plastic bags is one thing everybody that cared just a little bit, could do something about today and for the rest of their days. Refuse a bag, you do not need a bag to carry everything home. You do not need 2 bags when they will all fit in one etc.

This is something you can do something about right now. All the other problems also need addressing and they do, this is just one of them.

You do not need a plastic bag to carry your water bottle out of 7/11. You do need the plastic bottle to carry the water out.

If you cannot see that and any advantage of it, then you simply are one of the ignorant millions that are destroying the planet.

I used to work in some pristine environments, more than you would have ever seen. These areas are now being ruined some 15/20 years on because of the 100 fold increase in rubbish and convenient packaging.

I was in one such environment over xmas and the difference was staggering.

Keep your head in the sand if you want and plead ignorance, but good people will not stop caring, unlike yourself and give up. You are just weak no doubt.

This is exactly what I mean. There's always a few photos out there that are RARE OCCURRENCES of events and that are then posted of evidence of a major problem.

How many of such "plastic wrapped birds" has anyone on this forum actually seen? I'm pretty sure it's zero. On the same basis as forbidding plastic bags, you should argue that arrows (the ones shot from bows) should be forbidden because there's a series of photos out there with birds with arrows through their neck. Just google (on Google Images) "bird with plastic bag" and "bird with arrow". The former will yield the photos posted above plus a few more - it's not like there's heaps of photos out there because it hardly ever happens that birds are caught in bags. The latter search will yield about the same number of birds with arrows in them.

The whole argument of reducing plastic bags or banning them remains a load of <deleted> IMHO. It's not about every little bit helps - because they would be replaced with "reusable" woven polyester bags, which are much heavier and need a lot more energy to produce, and are also wasted albeit after a few more uses. So it would just be shifting the burden another way, until some little old lady in Hampshire finds one of these "reusable" bags in her chicken coop and starts the next round of "let's ban these too". All replacement bags, whether woven polyester, or paper, or cotton etc. require much more energy to produce and similar levels of wastage occur during production and often disposal.

The problem with plastic bags is that they are made of an artificial material and thus people make a big fuss because artificial materials should be avoided at all cost, and if a bit of it ends up in the environment it is a major issue.

The argument about the pristine environments - yes there are areas (in the central Pacific for one) which see a lot of trash wash up on the beaches because they are in a vortex area of ocean currents. There will be a few plastic bags among the trash, but the far majority of it consists of harder and more durable plastics such as pallet covers, polyester chips, PET bottles, etc. This is not a reason to argue that plastic bags are evil. The problem is that all kinds of trash are washed out to sea in rivers, and thrown from ships. Plastic shopping bags are just a very small part of them.

I've asked for concrete examples etc. but nobody gives them. Only reproductions of standard "sample" pictures showcasing the supposed evil of plastic bags. Nobody has come up with anything convincing IMHO.

Many people want to be mainstream and politically correct, and thus follow the prevailing opinion without questioning it (simply because a few pictures exist of birds wrapped in plastic, does not mean there is a global issue with plastic shopping bags - there may be a problem with trash in general but that is a very different issue that is conveniently being bundled into the shopping bag argument it seems).

Many others don't agree but keep silent because they are fearful of opposing the mainstream opinion, which in this case is that plastic bags are evil but nobody really knows why - unless you're basing an opinion on a few pictures and don't care about what is reasonable, or any hard facts or stats.

I repeat: show me the actual facts how PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS are destroying the environment (and I don't buy a few sensationalist pictures or movies as being proof of that). Waste in general may have a major impact on the environment globally, but PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS are INERT LIKE GLASS and don't leak chemicals or similar. Some marine animals may eat a few and of course that upsets some people, but I haven't seen any proof that PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS threaten populations of animals anywhere in the world, or actually pollute the environment in a serious way (apart from annoying a few little old ladies in Hampshire when they blow across their lawn).

My argument remains: there's nothing wrong with plastic shopping bags.

That's not to say there's nothing wrong with global waste. There are serious problems in some areas caused by waste. This is usually caused by leakage of chemicals, petroleum products, medical waste products, radioactivity and similar from areas where waste is dumped. This is a serious issue. But don't confuse that with the issue of plastic shopping bags - because that really is not an issue.

If you still believe plastic bags are a problem, invent a solution. Don't just sit there and try to reduce usage which is non-constructive. Its the same as saying petroleum products cause global warming so let's drive less. <deleted>. Invent a solution that replaces the original "evil" solution with something that does the same, but without the evil aspect.

Have a great day! I'm off to the supermarket

[Nisa]

Where 7eleven- cashiers also encouraged to use their brain, before they hand out plastic bags for ice cream- popsicles?

Where Tesco- cashiers also encouraged to put more than 2 items into 1 bag, unless those items are a TV and motor- block?

Where Tops- cashiers also encouraged to put items into cloth- bags, without putting them in plastic- bags before?

BTW: good move to encourage the public to be more environmentally friendly!

You'd think the companies would be all over this if for no other reason than cost cutting measures. They could probably save a good chunk of money if they reduced the bags they gave out by 25%+ and would guess this would be fairly easy to do since most customers are buying single items for quick consumption or live next to the 7-11 or family marts. Simply asking, "Do you need a bag?" instead of them assuming you want one would probably reduce usage greatly.

I constantly have to tell clerks to put the bag back. Although I try to think I am helping the environment a big motivation is simply nor wanting to be forced to dispose of a bag seconds after I leave the store and make use of or consume the item I just purchased. The garbage cans outside these stores seem to be there for the purpose of throwing out the bags you just got a second ago.

Working with and continuing to educate the public is great but they need to get industry involved too to come up with alternatives and also be aware even if for their own self interest.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Let me begin by stating that I am no environmentalist but after watching 'bag it', a brilliant documentary about the terrible affect that plastic bags are having on marine life in particular I am trying to reduce my consumption of bags as much as possible. 'Bag It' is available on most torrent sites - highly recommended viewing. There is a LOT of evidence if you take the time..

Trailer:

OK - so what does this film say? There's a lot of plastic out there. Is all. It starts with plastic shopping bags then concludes that there's plastic everywhere, in almost every bit of packaging. Lotsa plastic. And if you go to a garbage dump you will see a lot of plastic. BUT WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Not the plastic. It's inert. It looks ugly, that's true. The REAL PROBLEM is with all the OTHER garbage in the garbage tip. The stuff you don't see. The many chemicals; the radioactivity from discarded X-ray machines and medicines; waste oils; etc.

Plastic bags probably keep that from leaking out into the soil too much

People like to make a case about things they can see. Even if they have to go to a garbage dump to see them. They don't care about things they don't see. Like the real waste problems out there...

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Thais only understand things when it hits them in their wallet. So, to that end, charge the customer 1 or 2 baht for every bag used (small bag = 1 baht, big bag = 2 baht).

Also, some time ago at Terminal 21 I bought 6 pasteries at one of the bake shops in the basement. Yup, you guessed it, each pastry went into it's own little plastic bag to be sealed shut with cello tape, and the lot went into a big plastic bag. So for 6 pastries I walked away with 7 plastic bags and about a meter of cello tape.

Trying to get Thais to cut back on plastic bags is going to be a hard sell, but charging for each bag would go a long way to making it work.

Exactly, spot on. Awareness only goes through the wallet. 1 or 2 Baht might not be enough to make a significant dent.

Make it 5 Baht for the big bag and 2 for the small, and the 500 Million bags per day will be cut at least in half in no time.

OK. And so there's 500 million bags less distributed out there. And what difference would that make? It might reduce employment at one plastic bag manufacturing plant. These employees could then move over to the other plant that makes garbage bags rather than shopping bags, because that plant's demand would go up as people would now have to buy their garbage bags rather than getting them for free from the supermarket. Or am I missing something?

you are right, but telling the truth doesn't get politicians/do gooders any satisfaction. A better target would be excessive packaging.

The both of you are a little uneducated I take it. Open YouTube then search for "plastic ocean" then watch a few of the videos and see if you change your mind. Or go to the beach and in Bang Sean, or Chon Buri, or Phuket and look at all the plastic floating in the water. Or even drive down a neighborhood soi, not tourist areas, a soi where average Thai's live and you will see thousands of plastic bags. Not to mention a lot of Thai's don't use these bags for garbage, how much garbage can you fit into a 1/2 liter bag?

I'm getting repetitive but what is the problem? It may be unsightly but decaying cotton bags or paper bags would also be unsightly. The stuff floating in the ocean is mostly harder plastic not shopping bags, but then there's so much garbage in the ocean that shopping bags are not going to make a difference if they were eliminated. The problem might be bigger even, because more energy would need to be wasted on making other types of bags which are more durable, and many are polyester which would be more polluting and are not biodegradable (the so-called "reusable" bags which are usually made of woven polyester - and are discarded after a few uses in many cases, or forgotten at home and new ones purchased).

[Nisa]

Where 7eleven- cashiers also encouraged to use their brain, before they hand out plastic bags for ice cream- popsicles?

Where Tesco- cashiers also encouraged to put more than 2 items into 1 bag, unless those items are a TV and motor- block?

Where Tops- cashiers also encouraged to put items into cloth- bags, without putting them in plastic- bags before?

BTW: good move to encourage the public to be more environmentally friendly!

It has taken me 2 years to get my Thai wife to tell the clerks to not give us bags for one or two items and to not double bag everything and to put a full load into every bag. Every time I tell the clerks that I don't want a bag they look confused. And then there is the ubiquitous straw that Thai's seem to need with every drink.

I think the look of confusion is because they are taught and trained to bag everything and it is not only something they are used to but also feel like they are breaking the rules by not giving you a bag. Not sure this training just comes from lack of thought and confidence in employees ability to reason or if it is for security (shop lifting) reasons.

Regardless, once we get the bag thing worked out then we need to work on not having them ask if I want every item I buy heated up.

[kimamey]

Nothing will replace plastic bags. Why do these people keep bothering? Such a big fuss about a year ago - or was it longer - about how the supermarkets will stop giving them away, everyone will use paper bags or re-usable bags. What a load of tosh. Give up, you "save the planet" people. What is needed is for people to not throw the bags out of the pick-up or off their bike. It's called littering.

The problem is disposal of the bags, not use of them.

Very true about the littering as I've mentioned before but there's still a problem with too many bags. If you don't throw them out of the window and you've already reused as many as you need what are you going to do with them? They are still there so anything to cut the number is helpful but alongside education on reusing and not littering.

Just been down to 7-11 to get 1 bottle of milk and had to refuse a bag despite a video running explaining the new policy about bags. Not facing the cashier unfortunately.

[canuckamuck]

The key here is find a way to get Thais to actually give a crap about something rather than give lip service to it.

littering is such an easy thing to change about Thailand. Isn't there anyone out there that can make this into a matter of national pride. They have plenty of that.

A big difference between developing counties and developed ones - the amount of litter.

[kimamey]

Where 7eleven- cashiers also encouraged to use their brain, before they hand out plastic bags for ice cream- popsicles?

Where Tesco- cashiers also encouraged to put more than 2 items into 1 bag, unless those items are a TV and motor- block?

Where Tops- cashiers also encouraged to put items into cloth- bags, without putting them in plastic- bags before?

BTW: good move to encourage the public to be more environmentally friendly!

It has taken me 2 years to get my Thai wife to tell the clerks to not give us bags for one or two items and to not double bag everything and to put a full load into every bag. Every time I tell the clerks that I don't want a bag they look confused. And then there is the ubiquitous straw that Thai's seem to need with every drink.

I think the look of confusion is because they are taught and trained to bag everything and it is not only something they are used to but also feel like they are breaking the rules by not giving you a bag. Not sure this training just comes from lack of thought and confidence in employees ability to reason or if it is for security (shop lifting) reasons.

Regardless, once we get the bag thing worked out then we need to work on not having them ask if I want every item I buy heated up.

Good point about heating up. I suppose those living in traditional Thai households can't really heat up a plastic container of rice and pork on a gas ring. Mine is like that and I have to remember we don't have an oven or microwave.

[Nisa]

Where 7eleven- cashiers also encouraged to use their brain, before they hand out plastic bags for ice cream- popsicles?

Where Tesco- cashiers also encouraged to put more than 2 items into 1 bag, unless those items are a TV and motor- block?

Where Tops- cashiers also encouraged to put items into cloth- bags, without putting them in plastic- bags before?

BTW: good move to encourage the public to be more environmentally friendly!

It has taken me 2 years to get my Thai wife to tell the clerks to not give us bags for one or two items and to not double bag everything and to put a full load into every bag. Every time I tell the clerks that I don't want a bag they look confused. And then there is the ubiquitous straw that Thai's seem to need with every drink.

I think the look of confusion is because they are taught and trained to bag everything and it is not only something they are used to but also feel like they are breaking the rules by not giving you a bag. Not sure this training just comes from lack of thought and confidence in employees ability to reason or if it is for security (shop lifting) reasons.

Regardless, once we get the bag thing worked out then we need to work on not having them ask if I want every item I buy heated up.

Good point about heating up. I suppose those living in traditional Thai households can't really heat up a plastic container of rice and pork on a gas ring. Mine is like that and I have to remember we don't have an oven or microwave.

As well good point on the heating up. I was only joking but funny how we can incorrectly perceive things in a different environment than which we came. Not like I put a lot of thought into their always asking me to heat things up except to joke about it but never thought about all the people who don't have the option to heat these things up easily at home.

[Nisa]

The key here is find a way to get Thais to actually give a crap about something rather than give lip service to it.

littering is such an easy thing to change about Thailand. Isn't there anyone out there that can make this into a matter of national pride. They have plenty of that.

A big difference between developing counties and developed ones - the amount of litter.

The difference comes from priorities not trash in less developed countries. As can be seen, as Thailand has become more modernized priorities are shifting from basic self survival to considering things like the environment. More awareness is also made to such issues too because Education becomes more of a priority as more people go to and and complete higher levels of schooling.

There are lists and lists of things that are easy to change but it is the priorities. It is like my wife always telling me something only costs a little and me having to reminder a lot of littles add up to a lot.

[JDGRUEN]

If plastic bags were properly collected in large quantities - they can relatively easily be turned into valuable products. Take large quantities of plastic bags, thrash them - grind them up into tiny pieces with easily available machinery ... then mix that with sawdust and epoxies -- extrude it hydraulically into lumber that last 30 years. Such lumber is termite proof, ultra-violet resistant, can be stained through and through to many shades approximating real wood. Great for a place like Thailand ... It is used in the U.S. for porch decking and such things ... There are a number of such factories in the U.S. .... Turn a problem into a resource... instead of grinding teeth about it ...

[Nisa]

If plastic bags were properly collected in large quantities - they can relatively easily be turned into valuable products. Take large quantities of plastic bags, thrash them - grind them up into tiny pieces with easily available machinery ... then mix that with sawdust and epoxies -- extrude it hydraulically into lumber that last 30 years. Such lumber is termite proof, ultra-violet resistant, can be stained through and through to many shades approximating real wood. Great for a place like Thailand ... It is used in the U.S. for porch decking and such things ... There are a number of such factories in the U.S. .... Turn a problem into a resource... instead of grinding teeth about it ...

Sounds like it might be be a great industry for Thailand with the lack of affordable lumbar.

[itchybum]

Nobody has come up with anything convincing IMHO.

IMHO...your opinion sucks big ones.

Your rants are too long winded to be worthy.

[stoli]

wait a minute ,, did i just woke up n the eighties ?? again .

still good idea doubt if it is gonna work

still i'm always the one to decline plastic bags if not needed such as for a drink @ 7/11 , but also when go shopping Tesco / big c 12 products 12 bags

thankfull Makro came to town 12 products NO plastic bags at all ( would help if one could easily grab a box from them thou

I agree. Makro is just a copy of the Costco chain in the US in every way, except: Costco offers you a box to carry your items.

[JetsetBkk]

wait a minute ,, did i just woke up n the eighties ?? again .

still good idea doubt if it is gonna work

still i'm always the one to decline plastic bags if not needed such as for a drink @ 7/11 , but also when go shopping Tesco / big c 12 products 12 bags

thankfull Makro came to town 12 products NO plastic bags at all ( would help if one could easily grab a box from them thou

I agree. Makro is just a copy of the Costco chain in the US in every way, except: Costco offers you a box to carry your items.

I take my Big C bags to Makro. Saves having loads of things rolling around the back of the pick-up.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Nobody has come up with anything convincing IMHO.

IMHO...your opinion sucks big ones.

Your rants are too long winded to be worthy.

Fair enough. But your short responses are meaningless - just repeats of the usual mantra without substance...

[JetsetBkk]

Nothing will replace plastic bags. Why do these people keep bothering? Such a big fuss about a year ago - or was it longer - about how the supermarkets will stop giving them away, everyone will use paper bags or re-usable bags. What a load of tosh. Give up, you "save the planet" people. What is needed is for people to not throw the bags out of the pick-up or off their bike. It's called littering.

The problem is disposal of the bags, not use of them.

Very true about the littering as I've mentioned before but there's still a problem with too many bags. If you don't throw them out of the window and you've already reused as many as you need what are you going to do with them? <snip>

What are you going to do with them? This:

- keep 'em until you need 'em.

.

[jaffacakes1]

I don't care because there's nothing to care about. Far as I can see.

I don't care what you have seen on TV and now believe to be the truth. I don't care what the mainstream public believes without plastic bags -

because they have not really thought about the details and just repeat what they see on TV.

I do care about the environment. But I don't believe bullshit stories in the media.

Tell me what ACTUAL IMPACT plastic bags have on the environment other than visual pollution in a garbage dump. TELL ME YOUR HORROR STORIES ABOUT PLASTIC BAGS.

YOUR OWN ONES - not the ones you see on TV that serve their producers to advance their careers with unproven and hyped up sensationalism.

I bet you (and anyone else reading this) can't tell me any horror stories - because there aren't any real ones.

PB - I suggest you take a few minutes of your time to watch 5 minutes of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEQ1FxC0fs (from around 41 min). It is an independent documentary and a real horror story with contributions from National Geographic and Marine Scientists that have spent two decades studying this.

The North Pacific Subtropical Gyre is a little far for me to travel so we may have to rely upon the marine scientists that have been studying this area for the past two decades and assume that perhaps they are making this up to 'advance their careers'

[Rimmer]

One inflammatory post removed

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

I don't care because there's nothing to care about. Far as I can see.

I don't care what you have seen on TV and now believe to be the truth. I don't care what the mainstream public believes without plastic bags -

because they have not really thought about the details and just repeat what they see on TV.

I do care about the environment. But I don't believe bullshit stories in the media.

Tell me what ACTUAL IMPACT plastic bags have on the environment other than visual pollution in a garbage dump. TELL ME YOUR HORROR STORIES ABOUT PLASTIC BAGS.

YOUR OWN ONES - not the ones you see on TV that serve their producers to advance their careers with unproven and hyped up sensationalism.

I bet you (and anyone else reading this) can't tell me any horror stories - because there aren't any real ones.

PB - I suggest you take a few minutes of your time to watch 5 minutes of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEQ1FxC0fs (from around 41 min). It is an independent documentary and a real horror story with contributions from National Geographic and Marine Scientists that have spent two decades studying this.

The North Pacific Subtropical Gyre is a little far for me to travel so we may have to rely upon the marine scientists that have been studying this area for the past two decades and assume that perhaps they are making this up to 'advance their careers'

Sorry but this one is too long - I don't mind watching a 5 minute movie, but am not gonna watch more than an hour. This one appears to be a compilation of different movies, it starts with the plastic bag movie that was posted on the thread earlier on and which had not much substance to it other than saying there's a lot of plastic out there. That's obviously true. I suspect this movie might be similar, talking about how much plastic there is out there. Plastic upsets people because it is artificial and people believe artificial materials should not be in the environment. However I maintain that plastic is actually one of the more benign artificial materials in the environment. It may look ugly, but it is inert. Some animals may be killed by it, but it's killing far less animals than overfishing, chemical pollution etc. do. However it makes for better photo ops when birds have plastic bags over their heads etc.

If you have watched this entire movie and want me to look at specific moments I'd be happy to comply, just let me know the minutes where there moments are (like at 45:00 or similar). Will come back with comments after, but expect them to be dismissive like my earlier ones. Plastic is politically incorrect (as are my comments) but I remain convinced that it is much less evil than the greenies make it out to be - almost every other type of pollution is far worse, albeit far less visible...

Edit: just noticed you actually mentioning to watch 5 minutes from 41:00 so did that - sorry missed that earlier. As expected I'm gonna be dismissive of it: there is a lot of plastic pollution in the oceans which I was aware of, however very little, if any of this consists of plastic shopping bags. As the movie explains and shows, the plastic in the ocean consists of plastic chips/chunks. This comes from various sources but consists of hard plastics. Reducing shopping bags won't reduce this problem at all. This is what I've been saying all along. Shopping bags are "visible" and therefore people easily jump onto the green bandwagon because of them, but there will be no difference at all to the oceans or the environment in general if plastic shopping bags are banned. What would make a difference is if a different kind of plastics were invented, which would truly biodegrade, and all other plastics banned. But this is not feasible at this stage of evolution of plastics, as far as I understand. So I remain unconvinced of any need to reduce usage of plastic bags, for the reason that it won't make a realistic difference, other than making people feel good for supposedly making a difference.

[jaffacakes1]

Am glad you did watch it and took the time to respond. You are entirely correct that plastic bags account for only a proportion of the overall problem. The small chunks referred to are, however the result of plastics breaking up and the bags are very clearly a significant contributor to the problem simply as a result of the sheer volumes consumed.

I am no environmentalist either, don't recycle or care much about my carbon footprint but I don't need my shopping double bagged and I do support this initiative as it helps to trash the plant that little bit less. The only solution is reducing demand. Ireland have implemented this very successfully with a tax on plastic bags. Would you pay for one?

Note also this is not simply a domestic problem. Af 37.00 you will see where the US are shipping most of their plastic waste. Asia.

[jaffacakes1]

Am glad you did watch it and took the time to respond. You are entirely correct that plastic bags account for only a proportion of the overall problem. The small chunks referred to are, however the result of plastics breaking up and the bags are very clearly a significant contributor to the problem simply as a result of the sheer volumes consumed.

I am no environmentalist either, don't recycle or care much about my carbon footprint but I don't need my shopping double bagged and I do support this initiative as it helps to trash the plant that little bit less. The only solution is reducing demand. Ireland have implemented this very successfully with a tax on plastic bags. Would you pay for one?

Note also this is not simply a domestic problem. Af 37.00 you will see where the US are shipping most of their plastic waste. Asia.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Am glad you did watch it and took the time to respond. You are entirely correct that plastic bags account for only a proportion of the overall problem. The small chunks referred to are, however the result of plastics breaking up and the bags are very clearly a significant contributor to the problem simply as a result of the sheer volumes consumed. I am no environmentalist either, don't recycle or care much about my carbon footprint but I don't need my shopping double bagged and I do support this initiative as it helps to trash the plant that little bit less. The only solution is reducing demand. Ireland have implemented this very successfully with a tax on plastic bags. Would you pay for one? Note also this is not simply a domestic problem. Af 37.00 you will see where the US are shipping most of their plastic waste. Asia.

I would pay for plastic bags, I just don't want the option removed of having them. As long as the price is reasonable (not like 100 baht a piece or whatever). I remain unconvinced that they are a significant problem but yes if they charged for them it would not be an issue for me. I just want to have them available, ideally for free but if they charge for them at least I can still have them. If they put more items in them to reduce the number of bags used that could lead to bags ripping so is not a solution in my view. They do that in places like Australia but often I say double bag it if they put three wine bottles in the one bag.

I've always been a strong advocate of "improve rather than reduce" - in this case improve the product so the environmental impact is removed, rather than reducing usage which can be highly inconvenient and tends to make very little meaningful difference overall, other than a "feel good" factor.

Same with say car usage: people say reduce it so there's less greenhouse gases; I say change the technology so there's no issue anymore. Costs a bit, like they need to build massive solar and wind plants to generate hydrogen out of seawater to power fuel cell cars, but once this gets done there's no more greenhouse gas production. The technology already exists but costs are too high so far. Once oil goes up more and at the same time there's better yield from solar cells (like the new nanotube ones they are developing which apparently are 15x more efficient) costs will come down and it will become feasible..

[Nisa]

I don't think the environmental hazards regarding plastic bags have to do solely with their disposal but also their production.

[kimamey]

Nothing will replace plastic bags. Why do these people keep bothering? Such a big fuss about a year ago - or was it longer - about how the supermarkets will stop giving them away, everyone will use paper bags or re-usable bags. What a load of tosh. Give up, you "save the planet" people. What is needed is for people to not throw the bags out of the pick-up or off their bike. It's called littering.

The problem is disposal of the bags, not use of them.

Very true about the littering as I've mentioned before but there's still a problem with too many bags. If you don't throw them out of the window and you've already reused as many as you need what are you going to do with them? <snip>

What are you going to do with them? This:

- keep 'em until you need 'em.

.

Yes I had bags like that back in the UK when I used to get them from the supermarket every week and I reused many of them but I wasn't using them as fast as I was getting them. In the end I did take them to recycling bins. I've got pictures somewhere of my daughter and I trying to sort out a huge pile of them.

Now when I'm in the UK I use my own bags most of the time and I still reuse where possible and I still have a bag full of them.

The idea of making things from them is good but there's still a problem if more are used than are recycled. Then of course you have to persuade people to recycle rather than throwing away. There is a problem here in Thailand of throwing rubbish on the floor. It happens everywhere of course but it is worse here. I've had to try and stop my family just dropping rubbish around outside the house.

[kimamey]

Am glad you did watch it and took the time to respond. You are entirely correct that plastic bags account for only a proportion of the overall problem. The small chunks referred to are, however the result of plastics breaking up and the bags are very clearly a significant contributor to the problem simply as a result of the sheer volumes consumed. I am no environmentalist either, don't recycle or care much about my carbon footprint but I don't need my shopping double bagged and I do support this initiative as it helps to trash the plant that little bit less. The only solution is reducing demand. Ireland have implemented this very successfully with a tax on plastic bags. Would you pay for one? Note also this is not simply a domestic problem. Af 37.00 you will see where the US are shipping most of their plastic waste. Asia.

I'm sorry but this post doesn't make much sense. What you say about plastic bags is fine and of course they aren't be the only or biggest problem but every little bit adds up. It's a fact that Thais use far more bags than are necessary so anything that can reduce that will help. Double bagging is OK if the contents are heavy but it's pointless to just make thicker bags since you don't need them for lighter items. There are other solutions like reusing plastics for making new items (including new bags) and degradable plastic bags but these are just an important part of the solution including cutting out use that isn't necessary. It takes time for these new uses to become developed and in the meantime it doesn't hurt to cut down and this goes for things like vehicle use as well. I wouldn't want to ban plastic bags as they are very useful but we need to be sensible.

Where I do take issue with you is this. 'I am no environmentalist either, don't recycle or care much about my carbon footprint' If you can't be bothered to recycle why are telling everyone else about the damage and what we should be doing about it?

[whybother]

I think one thing that some people don't realise is that plastic bags don't float on top of the water. They will often drift along under the surface, so can't be seen as easily.

[retell]

http://www.good.is/posts/people-are-awesome-teenager-designs-device-to-clean-7-million-kg-of-plastic-from-the-ocean

would be great if this thing get build

[vijer]

PB, it is ignorance like yours that magnifies the global problems.

Are all of these ok by your thinking?

Have you heard the saying 'every little bit helps"

Plastic bags are one single problem in a huge problem of garbage in general.

Plastic bags is one thing everybody that cared just a little bit, could do something about today and for the rest of their days. Refuse a bag, you do not need a bag to carry everything home. You do not need 2 bags when they will all fit in one etc.

This is something you can do something about right now. All the other problems also need addressing and they do, this is just one of them.

You do not need a plastic bag to carry your water bottle out of 7/11. You do need the plastic bottle to carry the water out.

If you cannot see that and any advantage of it, then you simply are one of the ignorant millions that are destroying the planet.

I used to work in some pristine environments, more than you would have ever seen. These areas are now being ruined some 15/20 years on because of the 100 fold increase in rubbish and convenient packaging.

I was in one such environment over xmas and the difference was staggering.

Keep your head in the sand if you want and plead ignorance, but good people will not stop caring, unlike yourself and give up. You are just weak no doubt.

This is exactly what I mean. There's always a few photos out there that are RARE OCCURRENCES of events and that are then posted of evidence of a major problem.

How many of such "plastic wrapped birds" has anyone on this forum actually seen? I'm pretty sure it's zero. On the same basis as forbidding plastic bags, you should argue that arrows (the ones shot from bows) should be forbidden because there's a series of photos out there with birds with arrows through their neck. Just google (on Google Images) "bird with plastic bag" and "bird with arrow". The former will yield the photos posted above plus a few more - it's not like there's heaps of photos out there because it hardly ever happens that birds are caught in bags. The latter search will yield about the same number of birds with arrows in them.

The whole argument of reducing plastic bags or banning them remains a load of &lt;deleted&gt; IMHO. It's not about every little bit helps - because they would be replaced with "reusable" woven polyester bags, which are much heavier and need a lot more energy to produce, and are also wasted albeit after a few more uses. So it would just be shifting the burden another way, until some little old lady in Hampshire finds one of these "reusable" bags in her chicken coop and starts the next round of "let's ban these too". All replacement bags, whether woven polyester, or paper, or cotton etc. require much more energy to produce and similar levels of wastage occur during production and often disposal.

The problem with plastic bags is that they are made of an artificial material and thus people make a big fuss because artificial materials should be avoided at all cost, and if a bit of it ends up in the environment it is a major issue.

The argument about the pristine environments - yes there are areas (in the central Pacific for one) which see a lot of trash wash up on the beaches because they are in a vortex area of ocean currents. There will be a few plastic bags among the trash, but the far majority of it consists of harder and more durable plastics such as pallet covers, polyester chips, PET bottles, etc. This is not a reason to argue that plastic bags are evil. The problem is that all kinds of trash are washed out to sea in rivers, and thrown from ships. Plastic shopping bags are just a very small part of them.

I've asked for concrete examples etc. but nobody gives them. Only reproductions of standard "sample" pictures showcasing the supposed evil of plastic bags. Nobody has come up with anything convincing IMHO.

Many people want to be mainstream and politically correct, and thus follow the prevailing opinion without questioning it (simply because a few pictures exist of birds wrapped in plastic, does not mean there is a global issue with plastic shopping bags - there may be a problem with trash in general but that is a very different issue that is conveniently being bundled into the shopping bag argument it seems).

Many others don't agree but keep silent because they are fearful of opposing the mainstream opinion, which in this case is that plastic bags are evil but nobody really knows why - unless you're basing an opinion on a few pictures and don't care about what is reasonable, or any hard facts or stats.

I repeat: show me the actual facts how PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS are destroying the environment (and I don't buy a few sensationalist pictures or movies as being proof of that). Waste in general may have a major impact on the environment globally, but PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS are INERT LIKE GLASS and don't leak chemicals or similar. Some marine animals may eat a few and of course that upsets some people, but I haven't seen any proof that PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS threaten populations of animals anywhere in the world, or actually pollute the environment in a serious way (apart from annoying a few little old ladies in Hampshire when they blow across their lawn).

My argument remains: there's nothing wrong with plastic shopping bags.

That's not to say there's nothing wrong with global waste. There are serious problems in some areas caused by waste. This is usually caused by leakage of chemicals, petroleum products, medical waste products, radioactivity and similar from areas where waste is dumped. This is a serious issue. But don't confuse that with the issue of plastic shopping bags - because that really is not an issue.

If you still believe plastic bags are a problem, invent a solution. Don't just sit there and try to reduce usage which is non-constructive. Its the same as saying petroleum products cause global warming so let's drive less. &lt;deleted&gt;. Invent a solution that replaces the original "evil" solution with something that does the same, but without the evil aspect.

Have a great day! I'm off to the supermarket

Rare photos?!? Not rare at all, but the news agencies don't want to report about it every day or even every week. So a lot of short sited, uninformed, twits that believe god exists think everything is great because they can't see garbage in their area. In fact plastic is killing several hundred thousand animals a year. And it effects millions more, but hey keep your head in the sand and you won't see it so hey there isn't a problem.