I'd like to get some opinions from long time residents about their feeling on how Pattaya is developing, and then specifically in the areas that make Pattaya special as a beach resort: suitability as a (family) holiday destination, and nightlife.

Poll notes & disclaimers:

* Yes, 10-15 years is pretty arbitrary. Feel free to stretch or reduce this a bit, to whichever period in the past you consider the most different from today.

* I'm limited to three poll questions so I picked these that focus on the most obvious indicators: tourism and nightlife. If I had more space I could have included things like general infrastructure, traffic, etc. though these would likely result in some more predictable answers compared to how someone feels personally about nightlife.

* Try to weigh in as much as possible any personal changes that would affect how you view these things.. Maybe 15 years you did short holidays compared to living here full time now. That just results in a different experience compared to having 2 weeks and near unlimited money to blow.

Are bars the only places in Pattaya, hardly a representative poll. When I first arrived I used to go to bars, now I don't so can't answer questions comparing then and now in bars. As for families, what has there ever really been here for them? The beaches are poor, nightlife is adult-oriented, I think as a family coming here either now or before, one visit would be more than enough.

As I said I'm limited to three questions. We could do a separate topic of course on comparing other things that drive people to settle in Pattaya, such as ... ehh.. ... wait.... ah right: shopping malls and golf courses. For those things though I'd say it's a safe bet that those are better now than they were before.

As for family holidays, Pattaya has a lot of theme park and action/activity things that will entertain kids. If you put kids on a stunning beach on Ko Lanta or wherever then they will rather quickly get bored. In Pattaya you have entertaiment things that kids like.

As for family orientated, there are a million places that would be more family orientated. Not just the bar scene, the traffic, cleanliness, everything. Why try to turn Pattaya into something it isnt. This is just a myth from the local government, to paint a better picture. Yes, you can demolish the bars, and put up condos, but the general condition of the city dosent support the general condition of the city.

Prices are considerably more than 10 years ago.

Farangs are being milked by these Pattaya prices, with the added problem of the exchange rate.

Pattaya nowadays is far more family oriented than it ever was. If you come here for a two weeks holiday with a family, there are much more things to do than you can pack into two weeks. Actually, a stay in a hotel like Centara in Wong Amat can keep you busy for a couple of days already without leaving the premises.

The image of Pattaya today : 1 One of the most Air- polluted towns in the world. Giant traffic problems. Criminality worst than ever. Jomtien Beach you swimming in garbage. More than 100 people's dead during Songkrang festival !! Vendor Maffia speed boats and Jet ski !!

Air pollution? Have you been to Chiang Mai lately? Or Bangkok for that matter?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

For sure the bargirl and staff in genrel were friendlier before, and is was ewen better when I came to Pattaya in 1991.

The bargirls were puring up the beers, if I took a girl with me back to me room, the washed my close before she left next morning, etc etc.

Despsite of that I have to admit that its amazing how nice the serving people stille are despite many sextourits behave very badly.

Air pollution? Have you been to Chiang Mai lately? Or Bangkok for that matter? Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly. Maybe he means very local pollution when you're in the middle of a traffic jam, but the overall air quality numbers are quite good to very good. I visited Pattaya during the Northern Thailand hazy season (March, mostly) exactly for this reason.

Anyway all the numbers are on the government Pollution Control Department site. (Pattaya does not have a measuring station but Laem Chabang and Sri Racha do, which are close enough.)

The main issue in the North in March is particulate matter pollution (PM10) (from forest fires and agricultural burning in the wider region, including Thailand itself, Burma and maybe even further.)

Look at the numbers (numbers show on the Y axis on right; scale is not the same) It's completely no comparison, Chonburi has super air.

This is Sri Racha: a couple 'peaks' in the low thirties (average daily value)

And this is Chiang Rai. Peaks of 200-250(!), again average daily value. That is downright dangerous to anyone's health.

You get this every year in March. (and sometimes late Feb or early April). Things are nice and bright again in the North now though.

"Yes" to all three questions, of course. Rather an easy quiz.

But you forgot the important fourth question to which the answer is also "yes":

Are all these changes a complete pain in the arse?

Air pollution? Have you been to Chiang Mai lately? Or Bangkok for that matter? Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly. Maybe he means very local pollution when you're in the middle of a traffic jam, but the overall air quality numbers are quite good to very good. I visited Pattaya during the Northern Thailand hazy season (March, mostly) exactly for this reason.

Anyway all the numbers are on the government Pollution Control Department site. (Pattaya does not have a measuring station but Laem Chabang and Sri Racha do, which are close enough.)

The main issue in the North in March is particulate matter pollution (PM10) (from forest fires and agricultural burning in the wider region, including Thailand itself, Burma and maybe even further.)

Look at the numbers (numbers show on the Y axis on right; scale is not the same) It's completely no comparison, Chonburi has super air.

This is Sri Racha: a couple 'peaks' in the low thirties (average daily value)

sriracha.jpg

And this is Chiang Rai. Peaks of 200-250(!), again average daily value. That is downright dangerous to anyone's health.

chiangrai.JPG

You get this every year in March. (and sometimes late Feb or early April). Things are nice and bright again in the North now though.

Chon Buri isn't Pattaya, and neither is Sri Racha. The air quality in Pattaya sucks, unless you sit on the beach and the wind comes from West. Countless diesel engines without filters, many people burn garbage, and food vendors on the streets who fry their stuff, plus the stench from the canalisation. Been here for some time so I don't smell it anymore, but upon arrival to holidays in years gone by I always noted that the city smells like crap.

As 99% men will be answering the survey, to really "qualify" we would all have aged 10-15 years in the process.

Natually the ladies will find us less attractive and therfore will be less inclined to be friendly to us!! This quesiton is loaded.

The image of Pattaya today : 1 One of the most Air- polluted towns in the world. Giant traffic problems. Criminality worst than ever. Jomtien Beach you swimming in garbage. More than 100 people's dead during Songkrang festival !! Vendor Maffia speed boats and Jet ski !!

Not down at Cosy Beach. Been down there to swim 3 times this week and was surprised to find no garbage at all... and the water was fine. The Russians know where the best beaches are as this area seems to be exclusively Russian these days.

It beats taking a boat to Koh Larn.

As I said I'm limited to three questions. We could do a separate topic of course on comparing other things that drive people to settle in Pattaya, such as ... ehh.. ... wait.... ah right: shopping malls and golf courses. For those things though I'd say it's a safe bet that those are better now than they were before.

As for family holidays, Pattaya has a lot of theme park and action/activity things that will entertain kids. If you put kids on a stunning beach on Ko Lanta or wherever then they will rather quickly get bored. In Pattaya you have entertaiment things that kids like.

don't know about your kids, but my kid loves the beach, the water the ocean. 6 years old, snorkeling like a fish and pushing me to start her diving.

bored? i dont think so. 3 months on koh phangan and not a day went by when i wasn't getting demands for more beach time.

Not a theme park in sight and it is her favourite place on earth, with requests to return to the island.

I could only suggest that perhaps you get restless and it rubs off, but that is mere speculation.

For sure the bargirl and staff in genrel were friendlier before, and is was ewen better when I came to Pattaya in 1991.

The bargirls were puring up the beers, if I took a girl with me back to me room, the washed my close before she left next morning, etc etc.

Despsite of that I have to admit that its amazing how nice the serving people stille are despite many sextourits behave very badly.

pink viking, you sound like a true master of the pork sword.

I have no idea why anyone would go to Pattaya for a "family vacation", unless they are a pretty strange family, or have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

My first time in Pattaya was 1990. Though not a frequent visitor there, the changes I have seen include:

1) Much more crowded. You used to actually be able to walk freely on "walking street". A full circuit around second road and beach road on a baht bus took maybe fifteen minutes at most. Traffic jams were almost unheard of.

2) The behaviour and appearance of tourists has declined considerably. Walking street has become a grotesque scene of some of the most obnoxious and ugly tourists to be found anywhere in the world. I do not remember it being that way even five to ten years ago, and certainly not 20 years ago.

3) Bar staff and other service industry staff are far less friendly though, as noted by someone previously, it is remarkable that they are not more hostile given some of the obnoxious freaks they have to cope with these days. This is a trend I see all over Thailand, but is more pronounced in Pattaya. Thai culture has changed; the young generation of Thais today is far more worldly and cynical than their parent's generation.

4) Though I've never experienced or witnessed any violent crime myself, the reports I read make me think there has been a huge increase in the criminal element in Pattaya, both foreign and Thai. The worst thing that ever happened to me was getting my pocket picked by a pair of kathoeys who accosted me as I walked along beach road in the early nineties. I suppose the phenomenon of foreign men mysteriously falling to their deaths from their balconies does go back many years in Pattaya, as memory serves me.

5) The place is just generally much bigger, more hi-rises, more shopping malls. I prefer its smaller, lo-rise, quieter, more laid-back past, but I guess some people call it progress.

Potosi, on 25 Apr 2013 - 19:50, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 25 Apr 2013 - 18:58, said:

raro, on 25 Apr 2013 - 18:21, said:

Air pollution? Have you been to Chiang Mai lately? Or Bangkok for that matter? Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly. Maybe he means very local pollution when you're in the middle of a traffic jam, but the overall air quality numbers are quite good to very good. I visited Pattaya during the Northern Thailand hazy season (March, mostly) exactly for this reason.

Anyway all the numbers are on the government Pollution Control Department site. (Pattaya does not have a measuring station but Laem Chabang and Sri Racha do, which are close enough.)

The main issue in the North in March is particulate matter pollution (PM10) (from forest fires and agricultural burning in the wider region, including Thailand itself, Burma and maybe even further.)

Look at the numbers (numbers show on the Y axis on right; scale is not the same) It's completely no comparison, Chonburi has super air.

This is Sri Racha: a couple 'peaks' in the low thirties (average daily value)

sriracha.jpg

And this is Chiang Rai. Peaks of 200-250(!), again average daily value. That is downright dangerous to anyone's health.

chiangrai.JPG

You get this every year in March. (and sometimes late Feb or early April). Things are nice and bright again in the North now though.

Chon Buri isn't Pattaya, and neither is Sri Racha. The air quality in Pattaya sucks, unless you sit on the beach and the wind comes from West. Countless diesel engines without filters, many people burn garbage, and food vendors on the streets who fry their stuff, plus the stench from the canalisation. Been here for some time so I don't smell it anymore, but upon arrival to holidays in years gone by I always noted that the city smells like crap.

Like some other posters, I wondered why you felt the air in Pattaya was so polluted, when it is much cleaner than other cities in Thailand, and in many parts of the world. Then you brought up something I had not considered as pollution, and I see the point that you are coming from. Yes, you do not want to be a nose breather in Pattaya, but a mouth breather. Walking near a storm drain can be pretty bad if you breathe through your nose. Thanks for clarifying your original remark.

As 99% men will be answering the survey, to really "qualify" we would all have aged 10-15 years in the process.

Natually the ladies will find us less attractive and therfore will be less inclined to be friendly to us!! This quesiton is loaded.

Unless we're now richer, then we're so much MORE attractive

Would be interesting to learn how many of the present family tourists are or will be repeat visitors? Local authorities seem to take the shotgun approach to huge markets like Russia, China and India without having to care about customer satisfaction. With these numbers there is one born every minute!

Differences over the last 10 years?

1. The dark side has lightened up

2. Jomtien and Pattaya is more or less one destination now

3. More and more bars have moved to Soi Bhuo Kowl which was in development 10 years ago.

4. High rises have claimed their position along the shores

5. The number of shopping malls/mega stores has increased with approx. 1,000 percent

6. Pattaya is easier accessible with the #7 and Suvarnabuhmi Airport

7. The number of (un-used) traffic lights has increased

8. More family-attractions have been opened (floating market, Underwater World..........damn......that's all I can think of)

Potosi, on 25 Apr 2013 - 19:50, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 25 Apr 2013 - 18:58, said:

raro, on 25 Apr 2013 - 18:21, said:

Air pollution? Have you been to Chiang Mai lately? Or Bangkok for that matter? Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Exactly. Maybe he means very local pollution when you're in the middle of a traffic jam, but the overall air quality numbers are quite good to very good. I visited Pattaya during the Northern Thailand hazy season (March, mostly) exactly for this reason.

Anyway all the numbers are on the government Pollution Control Department site. (Pattaya does not have a measuring station but Laem Chabang and Sri Racha do, which are close enough.)

The main issue in the North in March is particulate matter pollution (PM10) (from forest fires and agricultural burning in the wider region, including Thailand itself, Burma and maybe even further.)

Look at the numbers (numbers show on the Y axis on right; scale is not the same) It's completely no comparison, Chonburi has super air.

This is Sri Racha: a couple 'peaks' in the low thirties (average daily value)

sriracha.jpg

And this is Chiang Rai. Peaks of 200-250(!), again average daily value. That is downright dangerous to anyone's health.

chiangrai.JPG

You get this every year in March. (and sometimes late Feb or early April). Things are nice and bright again in the North now though.

Chon Buri isn't Pattaya, and neither is Sri Racha. The air quality in Pattaya sucks, unless you sit on the beach and the wind comes from West. Countless diesel engines without filters, many people burn garbage, and food vendors on the streets who fry their stuff, plus the stench from the canalisation. Been here for some time so I don't smell it anymore, but upon arrival to holidays in years gone by I always noted that the city smells like crap.

Like some other posters, I wondered why you felt the air in Pattaya was so polluted, when it is much cleaner than other cities in Thailand, and in many parts of the world. Then you brought up something I had not considered as pollution, and I see the point that you are coming from. Yes, you do not want to be a nose breather in Pattaya, but a mouth breather. Walking near a storm drain can be pretty bad if you breathe through your nose. Thanks for clarifying your original remark.

Try standing anywhere on Sukhumvit in Bangkok. The smell from the drains there is far worse than any drain I could think of in Pattaya. The diesel engines, garbage burning is also not really unique to Pattaya.

This one sorted, let's tackle the next one: giant traffic problems. Yes, it is getting worse, especially on weekends when half of Bangkok invades. Yes, I do avoid going into town on weekends for that exact reason. It is (still) quiet on the darkside and I hope it will stay like that. BUT, even the traffic problems we have at the moment in downtown (!) Pattaya are not as bad as Pet Kasem in Hua Hin, Bangkok all over the place and I remember Chiang Mai also has its share of traffic jams by now. Oh, and have you been to Phuket lately? I needed on one afternoon from Chaweng to Lamai almost 1.5 hours...

Prices are considerably more than 10 years ago.

Farangs are being milked by these Pattaya prices, with the added problem of the exchange rate.

What a nonsense post, everywhere in the world everything is costing much more now than 10 years ago.

If you go to the right restaurants & bars in Pattaya, it's still very cheap because the competition is hard.

I have a place where I get a full Westerner breakfast for 89 baht and it's very good, try find that on Phuket and you will still be looking.

It seems odd to me that so many posters think that this place is more suitable for a family vacation than 10-15 years ago. I would never take a "family vacation" here now. Why? It remains little more than a large brothel, the level of crime has skyrocketed (almost no crime 10-15 years ago), and the number of skinhead, tatooed Neaderthals roaming the streets has radically increased.

I did a family holiday in Patters last month; it was great. I'll expand a bit on this tomorrow, but the short version is that Pattaya is a lot more than a couple seedy sois with bars.

You do need a nice place to stay and a car, yes.

It seems odd to me that so many posters think that this place is more suitable for a family vacation than 10-15 years ago. I would never take a "family vacation" here now. Why? It remains little more than a large brothel, the level of crime has skyrocketed (almost no crime 10-15 years ago), and the number of skinhead, tatooed Neaderthals roaming the streets has radically increased.

When are you leaving?

Too much traffic and too many tourists now. It's gotten so congested in the busy season I don't think it's worth visiting/living here during those months. Even now it is excessive and it's low season.

It seems odd to me that so many posters think that this place is more suitable for a family vacation than 10-15 years ago. I would never take a "family vacation" here now. Why? It remains little more than a large brothel, the level of crime has skyrocketed (almost no crime 10-15 years ago), and the number of skinhead, tatooed Neaderthals roaming the streets has radically increased.

Pattaya can be what you want it to be.

For a brothel, the loop near Pattaya bay would indeed make for a big one. ("The only brothel that can be seen from space!" )

For an (ever expanding) city, the loop near Pattaya bay is a small part.

So what's left is one's perception: what you want it to be. Many perceive Pattaya as the loop near the bay. Indeed there isn't too much family friendly stuff going on there. So with that definition of Pattaya you may be right. We could debate how many skinhead tatooed Neanderthals there really are, or who qualifies, but we can probably agree that however large in number, they also stick faithfully to the Pattaya bay loop, say Beach road to Bua Khao.

That leaves a really large area to stay and explore on a family holiday, including several islands, many more beaches and -and here Pattaya is unique- a large number of themed attractions aimed at package tourists with the mental maturity of an 7 year old. But wait.. I have an ACTUAL 7 year old!! And she really enjoys the dolphin shows, snake BS, elephants, gardens, water parks and whatever other kitchy stuff is bestowed on the larger Pattaya area. You could also find that in Phuket, but that's a lot further away, and a lot more expensive. Pattaya makes for a great family getaway, especially when you live in "The Real Thailand™" outside of Pattaya the rest of the year. It's so different it borderline feels like a foreign country!

And yes, of course the beaches on the Andaman coast are prettier; we visit those too. But Pattaya does have its merits, when you can just get in a car and drive over in an hour and a bit on Saturday morning.

Anyway, this addresses my thoughts on the Family holiday aspect. You don't need to agree, but it works for me and the Mrs.

Then with regards to nighlife, looking at the poll results I think the short version is "everything used to be better". I was expecting that, even though in Pattaya nightlife grew enormously over the years. I recall when a certain kind of show was at the old 'Hot & Cold'.. nowadays it's all over Walking Street. Certain daytime bars were in Soi Post Office, now.. well, you know.

A link to an article on this was supplied to me by fellow board member "beautifulthailand99" during a similar discussion on nightlife in Chiang Mai, in the Chiang Mai forum. It explains why the past gets better over time. And why each of us individually considers the 'best time' to be exactly that time when they just came to Thailand, even though of course this varies from person to person. The section that applies most, I think, is this one:

When people make judgments about things, they usually do it in relation to something else. For example, when they say that a concert is excellent, they mean that it is excellent compared to the concerts they have seen up to that point. [...] When we look back on events from our youth, we are likely to remember many things as being excellent, or awesome, or brilliant. We just forget how we decided on their excellence or brilliance. With a broader base of experience as an adult, it takes a lot for us to be truly awed. So we decide that things must have been better when we were younger.

[Another] factor comes from the time difference itself. Quite a bit of research suggests that we tend to think about the distant past more abstractly than we think about the present. Lots of the specific things that are happening right now involve the petty annoyances that you have to deal with to navigate daily life. There are bills to be paid, stacks of laundry to be done, tests to be taken and errands to run. When you think about the past, those petty annoyances don't come up. So, all you think about are the great times you had.

Full article is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-markman-phd/past-less-intense-than-present_b_987726.html The focus is experiences in youth vs when growing older, but I think it also applies to our 'second youth' after moving to Thailand.

It explains why the past gets better over time. And why each of us individually considers the 'best time' to be exactly that time when they just came to Thailand, even though of course this varies from person to person.

I think the past may get better over time more for single people who have become hitched over the time they're making the comparisons. For others who came here "hitched" it's getting better over time. More shopping centres, more choices of restaurants and less emphasis on the sex trade overall.