Slight Rise In Bangkok B T S Skytrain Fares In June

[whybother]

What stands out to me is that the article mentions the extensions will decide or consider what their increase will be. Almost as if they necessarily have to increase in tandem? The extension was just built on Sukhumvit, and the 15 baht flat fare is quiet ludicrous already, especially if you only go one stop on the extension.

In short, I don't think the extension should even be considering an increase because they just had a chance to set their price 6 or 7 months back. It seems they already set it high to me too.

If you go only one station any where else on the BTS it costs 15 baht, so the fact that you travel on the whole extension (5 stations on the Suk line) and it still only costs 15 baht sounds like a great deal.

[Old Man River]

Two months ago, BTS Group announced the formation of the BTS Rail Transit Growth Infrastructural Fund (BTSGIF) which will raise approx. THB 62.5 billion for future growth etc. This fund will be partly supported by fares, hence the announcement around the same time of the fare increase.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

"For passengers using Rabbit cards or BTS Sky SmartPasses, the fare collection system will continue to deduct fares at the previous rates (15-40 Baht), until 31st December 2014."

Git, I went back today and was looking at another of the photos I shot yesterday of the BTS fares banner. And I had the full message in one other image, albeit a blurry one. As best as I can see from that image, the banner appears to be saying the current card fares will be valid until the end of 2013 -- not 2014.

[meand]

What stands out to me is that the article mentions the extensions will decide or consider what their increase will be. Almost as if they necessarily have to increase in tandem? The extension was just built on Sukhumvit, and the 15 baht flat fare is quiet ludicrous already, especially if you only go one stop on the extension.

In short, I don't think the extension should even be considering an increase because they just had a chance to set their price 6 or 7 months back. It seems they already set it high to me too.

If you go only one station any where else on the BTS it costs 15 baht, so the fact that you travel on the whole extension (5 stations on the Suk line) and it still only costs 15 baht sounds like a great deal.

I am glad you think it is such a great deal; it is people like you that make the world a special place to live in.

But, the fact is, when you can go from Mo Chit to On nut for 20 baht...... On nut to Bang chak (1 stop) for 15 baht is NOT a good deal. I mean, you are still on the "BTS", right? Why does one stop cost almost as much as going 16 stops?

Edited May 3, 2013 by meand

[Lakegeneve]

What stands out to me is that the article mentions the extensions will decide or consider what their increase will be. Almost as if they necessarily have to increase in tandem? The extension was just built on Sukhumvit, and the 15 baht flat fare is quiet ludicrous already, especially if you only go one stop on the extension.

In short, I don't think the extension should even be considering an increase because they just had a chance to set their price 6 or 7 months back. It seems they already set it high to me too.

If you go only one station any where else on the BTS it costs 15 baht, so the fact that you travel on the whole extension (5 stations on the Suk line) and it still only costs 15 baht sounds like a great deal.

I am glad you think it is such a great deal; it is people like you that make the world a special place to live in.

But, the fact is, when you can go from Mo Chit to On nut for 20 baht...... On nut to Bang chak (1 stop) for 15 baht is NOT a good deal. I mean, you are still on the "BTS", right? Why does one stop cost almost as much as going 16 stops?

Don't let facts get in the way of a petty gripe!

Fact 1: Mo Chit to On Nut is 40 baht not 20!

Fact 2: To travel 1 station on the BTS system is 15 baht, for everyone! This is the minimum fare.

Fact 3: 15 baht does not cost the same as 40 baht. ("Why does one stop cost almost as much as going 16 stops?")

Fact 4: When the BTS ext from On Nut to Bearing opened on 12 August 2011 it was FREE travel for all the 5 extension stations until 1 May 2012! That is 8 and a half months of FREE travel! Loads of people were paying nothing to get from Bearing to Bang Chak and then would take a bus. (Pax rates pre and post 1 may highlighted this)

Whatever extra you think you are paying, that 8.5 months of FREE travel put you ahead by a long way.

Fact 5: As part of his re-election campaign the BMA Gov promised to reduce the flat rate from 15 baht to 10 baht. This will be implemented from 17 May. So from then on you can whine about payig 10 baht extra and not 15 baht.

Where else on the BTS system can you travel 5 stations for 15 baht (10 baht from 17 May)??? In fact you'll only be paying 10 baht soon while the rest of us pay 15 baht!

Fact 6: The BMA payed for the extension and contracted the BTSC to run it. It cost over 10 billion baht to build so they need to recoup their costs. The flat rate recoup model is not ideal but it is primarily due to financial structure of the contract and the BTSC not wishing to share revenue (one of the reasons why we still yet don't have an integrated ticketing system with the MRT)

Had the BMA not funded this extension, then most likely it would still not be built so you'd be complaining about the time you spend getting to and from On Nut station.

Suggested action for your dire situation

If you really think that 15 baht flat fare (10 from 17 May) is unfair then pls pay for all the free travel for that 8.5 months which everyone else who uses the rest of the BTS system did not get.

Thereafter, amend your journey by alighting at On Nut and catching a non-aircon 6.5 baht slow bus slowly to Bang Chak - it might take you anywhere from 10-30 mins but hey you'll be saving that 15 (10) baht! You'll save 8.5 baht each journey and you might also find something more pertinent to complain about like the conditions that daily bus travelers endure. (If you are really smart you might even catch one of the free buses under the govt assistance to the poor scheme. Then you'll be proud of even saving that 6.5 baht!)

As I said, pls don't let facts intrude upon your perceived injustice.

Happy travels!

[meand]

What stands out to me is that the article mentions the extensions will decide or consider what their increase will be. Almost as if they necessarily have to increase in tandem? The extension was just built on Sukhumvit, and the 15 baht flat fare is quiet ludicrous already, especially if you only go one stop on the extension.

In short, I don't think the extension should even be considering an increase because they just had a chance to set their price 6 or 7 months back. It seems they already set it high to me too.

If you go only one station any where else on the BTS it costs 15 baht, so the fact that you travel on the whole extension (5 stations on the Suk line) and it still only costs 15 baht sounds like a great deal.

I am glad you think it is such a great deal; it is people like you that make the world a special place to live in.

But, the fact is, when you can go from Mo Chit to On nut for 20 baht...... On nut to Bang chak (1 stop) for 15 baht is NOT a good deal. I mean, you are still on the "BTS", right? Why does one stop cost almost as much as going 16 stops?

Don't let facts get in the way of a petty gripe!

Fact 1: Mo Chit to On Nut is 40 baht not 20!

Fact 2: To travel 1 station on the BTS system is 15 baht, for everyone! This is the minimum fare.

Fact 3: 15 baht does not cost the same as 40 baht. ("Why does one stop cost almost as much as going 16 stops?")

Fact 4: When the BTS ext from On Nut to Bearing opened on 12 August 2011 it was FREE travel for all the 5 extension stations until 1 May 2012! That is 8 and a half months of FREE travel! Loads of people were paying nothing to get from Bearing to Bang Chak and then would take a bus. (Pax rates pre and post 1 may highlighted this)

Whatever extra you think you are paying, that 8.5 months of FREE travel put you ahead by a long way.

Fact 5: As part of his re-election campaign the BMA Gov promised to reduce the flat rate from 15 baht to 10 baht. This will be implemented from 17 May. So from then on you can whine about payig 10 baht extra and not 15 baht.

Where else on the BTS system can you travel 5 stations for 15 baht (10 baht from 17 May)??? In fact you'll only be paying 10 baht soon while the rest of us pay 15 baht!

Fact 6: The BMA payed for the extension and contracted the BTSC to run it. It cost over 10 billion baht to build so they need to recoup their costs. The flat rate recoup model is not ideal but it is primarily due to financial structure of the contract and the BTSC not wishing to share revenue (one of the reasons why we still yet don't have an integrated ticketing system with the MRT)

Had the BMA not funded this extension, then most likely it would still not be built so you'd be complaining about the time you spend getting to and from On Nut station.

Suggested action for your dire situation

If you really think that 15 baht flat fare (10 from 17 May) is unfair then pls pay for all the free travel for that 8.5 months which everyone else who uses the rest of the BTS system did not get.

Thereafter, amend your journey by alighting at On Nut and catching a non-aircon 6.5 baht slow bus slowly to Bang Chak - it might take you anywhere from 10-30 mins but hey you'll be saving that 15 (10) baht! You'll save 8.5 baht each journey and you might also find something more pertinent to complain about like the conditions that daily bus travelers endure. (If you are really smart you might even catch one of the free buses under the govt assistance to the poor scheme. Then you'll be proud of even saving that 6.5 baht!)

As I said, pls don't let facts intrude upon your perceived injustice.

Happy travels!

Well, that is a long, detailed post. And you do know more than anyone. I was obviously referring to a monthly card for your fact 1. But, you knew that, right? It is hard to read past something when a person gets his first statement so terribly wrong. I simply said you CAN go from mo chit to on nit for 20 baht -- fact. You then pay 15 baht to go one more stop -- fact. Illogical to some, "happy travels" for others. It makes sense to you under the single "BTS" banner. It does not to me. And I am not sure why you assume I traveled anywhere for free?

Your fact 5 seems to support me. If they are lowering the price, does that not suggest it was too high to begin with? In FACT, a 33% reduction REALLY suggests they are charging too much. That is a huge reduction.

In "fact 6" you seem to agree with me in a way, saying the pricing scheme is "not ideal"... ok, thanks for the backup - once again. why are you supporting my arguments... your knowledge is really doing me some favors lol.

To counter all your points would be too exhausting.

Let me ask you a question, because this seems to be an issue of separate lines on the single "BTS" system. Forgive me if this is impossible, but it just elucidates my point is all. What if an investor bought prom pong bts station. He then inserted his own pricing scheme.... let's say he charged everyone 15 baht to pass his station. What if another investor purchased another station. That is kind of where this is going with the extensions in my opinion. Invest all you want, but the pricing schemes should be reasonable,and consistent under a single bts banner. It should be a requisite for investment. 16 stops for 20 baht, then 1 stop for 15 baht is not reasonable to me, but it is to you

Edited May 3, 2013 by meand

[Lakegeneve]

Here is a chart done by a Thai rail watcher (Khun Totomaru) for ease of understanding,

Source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4564239633443&set=a.1131842225653.2018646.1515188633&type=1&relevant_count=1

Old fares

New fares

Difference.

BTS users should note that fares have been frozen for the last 6 years due to govt intervention. Under the terms of the original contract within the private concessionaire model (a flawed way to implement mass transit, in my view) the operator would be entitled to set fares at a current level of 18-56 baht going to a max of 65 baht next year.

As ludicrously unrealistic that the PTs 2011 election promise of a flat 20 baht fare was, having a near 60 baht fare would be just as much. Both would have a dramactic impact upon pax number with a system that already struggles to cope with pax levels due to the operators debt levels.

This current increase was to be to 45 baht so it seems it has still been discounted. As noted Rabbit card users have the same rates until end of 2014. This actually should have been done long ago to encourage more card based travel.

[Lakegeneve]

Well, that is a long, detailed post. And you do know more than anyone. I was obviously referring to a monthly card for your fact 1. But, you knew that, right? It is hard to read past something when a person gets his first statement so terribly wrong. I simply said you CAN go from mo chit to on nit for 20 baht -- fact. You then pay 15 baht to go one more stop -- fact. Illogical to some, "happy travels" for others. It makes sense to you under the single "BTS" banner. It does not to me.

Let me ask you a question, because this seems to be an issue of separate lines on the single "BTS" system. Forgive me if this is impossible, but it just elucidates my point is all. What if an investor bought prom pong bts station. He then inserted his own pricing scheme.... let's say he charged everyone 15 baht to pass his station. What if another investor purchased another station. That is kind of where this is going with the extensions in my opinion. Invest all you want, but the pricing schemes should be reasonable. 16 stops for 20 baht, then 1 stop for 15 baht is not reasonable to me

Yes, I think that we all know it is not reasonable for you. However, I also don't think that it is necessary reasonable that you had 8.5 months of free travel and that you are getting a DECREASE in fares when EVERYONE ELSE is getting an INCREASE in fares. But I won't complain about it. It all washes out equal in the end.

However, you wouldn't be aware of either of those facts as you stated you couldn't be bothered reading past the first comment which you considered wrong - as wrong as your 20 baht Mo Chit to On Nut statement was, and as correct as yours original statement was.

And you missed the whole point of why you pay the flat fare, you wouldn't have an extension to whine about otherwise. Until you bother to read the rest of the info you can at least be blessed knowing that you have a metro option unlike 80% of BKK residents.

As I suggested, you have the bus option to save that 15 (soon 10 baht).

[meand]

Well, that is a long, detailed post. And you do know more than anyone. I was obviously referring to a monthly card for your fact 1. But, you knew that, right? It is hard to read past something when a person gets his first statement so terribly wrong. I simply said you CAN go from mo chit to on nit for 20 baht -- fact. You then pay 15 baht to go one more stop -- fact. Illogical to some, "happy travels" for others. It makes sense to you under the single "BTS" banner. It does not to me.

Let me ask you a question, because this seems to be an issue of separate lines on the single "BTS" system. Forgive me if this is impossible, but it just elucidates my point is all. What if an investor bought prom pong bts station. He then inserted his own pricing scheme.... let's say he charged everyone 15 baht to pass his station. What if another investor purchased another station. That is kind of where this is going with the extensions in my opinion. Invest all you want, but the pricing schemes should be reasonable. 16 stops for 20 baht, then 1 stop for 15 baht is not reasonable to me

Yes, I think that we all know it is not reasonable for you. However, I also don't think that it is necessary reasonable that you had 8.5 months of free travel and that you are getting a DECREASE in fares when EVERYONE ELSE is getting an INCREASE in fares. But I won't complain about it. It all washes out equal in the end.

However, you wouldn't be aware of either of those facts as you stated you couldn't be bothered reading past the first comment which you considered wrong - as wrong as your 20 baht Mo Chit to On Nut statement was, and as correct as yours original statement was.

And you missed the whole point of why you pay the flat fare, you wouldn't have an extension to whine about otherwise. Until you bother to read the rest of the info you can at least be blessed knowing that you have a metro option unlike 80% of BKK residents.

As I suggested, you have the bus option to save that 15 (soon 10 baht).

You seems to be very dense considering how much you know. What is the cheapest you can go on nut to mo chit? Answer please.

It is funny, you are constantly talking about me "whining" when all I literally said was I disgreed with a poster who said it was a "good deal".

So, me saying 16 stops for 20 baht, and 1 stop for 15 baht is "not a good deal" is, to your thinking, whining and complaning and boohoohooing. lol. I think you have got me mixed up with some other guys on here.

Again, why do you assume I traveled on the bts extension for free? That is not a sound part of your "argument".

You seem to be justifying the, admittedly now, exorbitant cost of 1 stop on the extension with the fact that it was free, and that it will be lowered. That is your flawed argument? "it was free, so they should be able to charge anything they want now... oh, and also because it will go down soon and lowered to reasonable levels". lol.

Edited May 3, 2013 by meand

[theoldgit]

"For passengers using Rabbit cards or BTS Sky SmartPasses, the fare collection system will continue to deduct fares at the previous rates (15-40 Baht), until 31st December 2014."

Git, I went back today and was looking at another of the photos I shot yesterday of the BTS fares banner. And I had the full message in one other image, albeit a blurry one. As best as I can see from that image, the banner appears to be saying the current card fares will be valid until the end of 2013 -- not 2014.

Sorry, you are correct, that was a typo I meant to say 2013.

There was an ad in the press with all the details.

[Lakegeneve]

Well, that is a long, detailed post. And you do know more than anyone. I was obviously referring to a monthly card for your fact 1. But, you knew that, right? It is hard to read past something when a person gets his first statement so terribly wrong. I simply said you CAN go from mo chit to on nit for 20 baht -- fact. You then pay 15 baht to go one more stop -- fact. Illogical to some, "happy travels" for others. It makes sense to you under the single "BTS" banner. It does not to me.

Let me ask you a question, because this seems to be an issue of separate lines on the single "BTS" system. Forgive me if this is impossible, but it just elucidates my point is all. What if an investor bought prom pong bts station. He then inserted his own pricing scheme.... let's say he charged everyone 15 baht to pass his station. What if another investor purchased another station. That is kind of where this is going with the extensions in my opinion. Invest all you want, but the pricing schemes should be reasonable. 16 stops for 20 baht, then 1 stop for 15 baht is not reasonable to me

Yes, I think that we all know it is not reasonable for you. However, I also don't think that it is necessary reasonable that you had 8.5 months of free travel and that you are getting a DECREASE in fares when EVERYONE ELSE is getting an INCREASE in fares. But I won't complain about it. It all washes out equal in the end.

However, you wouldn't be aware of either of those facts as you stated you couldn't be bothered reading past the first comment which you considered wrong - as wrong as your 20 baht Mo Chit to On Nut statement was, and as correct as yours original statement was.

And you missed the whole point of why you pay the flat fare, you wouldn't have an extension to whine about otherwise. Until you bother to read the rest of the info you can at least be blessed knowing that you have a metro option unlike 80% of BKK residents.

As I suggested, you have the bus option to save that 15 (soon 10 baht).

You seems to be very dense considering how much you know. What is the cheapest you can go on nut to mo chit? Answer please.

It is funny, you are constantly talking about me "whining" when all I literally said was I disgreed with a poster who said it was a "good deal".

So, me saying 16 stops for 20 baht, and 1 stop for 15 baht is "not a good deal" is, to your thinking, whining and complaning and boohoohooing. lol. I think you have got me mixed up with some other guys on here.

Again, why do you assume I traveled on the bts extension for free? That is not a sound part of your "argument".

You seem to be justifying the, admittedly now, exorbitant cost of 1 stop on the extension with the fact that it was free, and that it will be lowered. That is your flawed argument? "it was free, so they should be able to charge anything they want now... oh, and also because it will go down soon and lowered to reasonable levels". lol.

Yes I admit that I am dense, I do live in the vain hope that most people can see the bigger picture and not be obsessed by their petty gripes. However, we are all human and we all have such tendencies. You are whining about this as you keep asserting a disposition of injustice and going on yet again about a petty gripe that completely misses the perspective of the bigger picture whislt choosing to ignore why the payment model exists in the first place.

I have explained why the flat fare charge has been implemented for this extension. I have explained that those who use the extension had a significant period of free travel while everyone else had to pay - 8.5 months! You don't state how long you have been using the extension, so if as you infer it has only been a short period - unlike those that waited years for it to open and did have the benefit of the free travel period- then really with respect, you have even less reason to complain.

I have highlighted something which seemingly you were unaware of, that this flat rate will in fact be reduced in 2 weeks when in two months all other fares are being increased. I have taken the time to proffer a suggested alternative to your "not a good deal" concern. You can save that extra flat fare, "exorbitant cost" as you characterise it and take a bus. In fact, you can travel that extra distance for free under the govts 'free transport for the poor' program!!! You should be happy that you have an alternative given your sense of injustice about this payment mode; - most don't have alternatives in BKK.

I also gave you a potential window to be thankful that you have something to gripe about given most in Bangkok DO NOT have access to a metro line. This is the big picture. If you were able to look beyond your petty gripe at the big picture you would acknowledge that you are lucky that the BMA funded and built this extension - in fact you should specifically thank previous Gov Apirak. Otherwise it would still not be built as the central govt was not going to do it at the time.

Yet you want to go on about whether or not the min fare is 20 baht from Mo Chit to On Nut for multi trip holders when it is also 40 baht for cash payers in a thread which was discussing fare increases which primarily impacted cash payers. You think you have a gotcha moment because I stated the fare was 40 baht when both of us are equally correct and incorrect with out respective statements as we were not comparing like. This is your major retort point seemingly in this discussion whilst you choose to ignore all of the other points. Again, highlighting the lack of perspective on your part and your inability to see the bigger picture and only focus on a petty aspect.

There is an alternative way of looking at it is this which may help you have some perspective.

For anyone living along the busy Phahonyothin corridor north of Mo Chit who has been waiting for the Dark Green BTS line ext from Mo Chit to Saphan Mai to be built, they might be wondering what the heck you are complaining about. The traffic conditions on Phahonyothin rd are far worse than Sukhumvit beyond On Nut - that is really saying something!

Originally when the BTS liens forst opened in Dec 1999, this ext was planned to be completed by the end of 2006. The PM Taksin promised in the 2005 election that it would be done by 2008. Since 2007, EVERY SINGLE YEAR, the government in power promised that it work would start the following year. Now, it is 2013, has work started? NO!

(The tender might finally go out mid this year but the earliest this ext would be completed - all going well - is 2017/18). So anyone living along this corridor will be using this ext some 12 years after it was due and a good 6-8 years after the Bearing ext opened.

I could go through a similar process for every single extension and new line in BKK. And each line has a catchment of 100s of thousands of people. All of whom have a valid reason to gripe and whine.

There are plenty of substantive and significant issues to have a gripe about regarding mass transport in BKK;

-the private concessionaire model with debt laden operators,

- lack of rolling stock to keep up with pax levels (related to the above),

- no integrated ticketing between BTS, MRT & ARL let alone buses and ferries (promised since 2008),

- the fact that most exts and new lines are many, many years behind schedule - in some cases decades,

- the lack of integrated planning and implementation,

- dysfunctional decision making and turf fights between govt agencies

- etc

Your petty gripe is not one of them.

Be thankful that you have an extension that you can use and accept the payment model for the explained reason that is has been introduced. It is a appropriate in the circumstances. If you are new to BKK as you infer, then you really have no reason to complain compared with long suffering long term residents. Try to look beyond your own pettiness and see the forest from the trees. Most living in BKK have much more to gripe about.

Regards.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I could go through a similar process for every single extension and new line in BKK. And each line has a catchment of 100s of thousands of people. All of whom have a valid reason to gripe and whine.

There are plenty of substantive and significant issues to have a gripe about regarding mass transport in BKK;

-the private concessionaire model with debt laden operators,

- lack of rolling stock to keep up with pax levels (related to the above),

- no integrated ticketing between BTS, MRT & ARL let alone buses and ferries (promised since 2008),

- the fact that most exts and new lines are many, many years behind schedule - in some cases decades,

- the lack of integrated planning and implementation,

- dysfunctional decision making and turf fights between govt agencies

- etc

A good summary of mass transit in BKK. And a good broader point, aimed at helping keep things in perspective.

FWIW, I spend a lot of time riding the Sukhumvit line. And I must say, as this was mentioned above, even now with the arrival of majority 4-car trains, the trains are often VERY crowded at least through the center part of town even during the off, non-rush hour periods, including on weekends.

I'd kind of expected things would loosen up a bit once the longer trains arrived. But now even in the middle of the afternoon on weekdays, it's often like sardines in a tin.

As I've long said, the BTS operation, along with the MRT, are among the best run aspects of Bangkok, despite the failure of the different individual transit segments to coordinate and operate together in a cohesive way.

I'm more than a bit worried that the future new lines and extensions, to whatever extent they're actually built, will more resemble the failures so common among the central government's contracting endeavours and less the successes of the original BTS and MRT systems.

[utalkin2me]

Well, that is a long, detailed post. And you do know more than anyone. I was obviously referring to a monthly card for your fact 1. But, you knew that, right? It is hard to read past something when a person gets his first statement so terribly wrong. I simply said you CAN go from mo chit to on nit for 20 baht -- fact. You then pay 15 baht to go one more stop -- fact. Illogical to some, "happy travels" for others. It makes sense to you under the single "BTS" banner. It does not to me.

Let me ask you a question, because this seems to be an issue of separate lines on the single "BTS" system. Forgive me if this is impossible, but it just elucidates my point is all. What if an investor bought prom pong bts station. He then inserted his own pricing scheme.... let's say he charged everyone 15 baht to pass his station. What if another investor purchased another station. That is kind of where this is going with the extensions in my opinion. Invest all you want, but the pricing schemes should be reasonable. 16 stops for 20 baht, then 1 stop for 15 baht is not reasonable to me

Yes, I think that we all know it is not reasonable for you. However, I also don't think that it is necessary reasonable that you had 8.5 months of free travel and that you are getting a DECREASE in fares when EVERYONE ELSE is getting an INCREASE in fares. But I won't complain about it. It all washes out equal in the end.

However, you wouldn't be aware of either of those facts as you stated you couldn't be bothered reading past the first comment which you considered wrong - as wrong as your 20 baht Mo Chit to On Nut statement was, and as correct as yours original statement was.

And you missed the whole point of why you pay the flat fare, you wouldn't have an extension to whine about otherwise. Until you bother to read the rest of the info you can at least be blessed knowing that you have a metro option unlike 80% of BKK residents.

As I suggested, you have the bus option to save that 15 (soon 10 baht).

You seems to be very dense considering how much you know. What is the cheapest you can go on nut to mo chit? Answer please.

It is funny, you are constantly talking about me "whining" when all I literally said was I disgreed with a poster who said it was a "good deal".

So, me saying 16 stops for 20 baht, and 1 stop for 15 baht is "not a good deal" is, to your thinking, whining and complaning and boohoohooing. lol. I think you have got me mixed up with some other guys on here.

Again, why do you assume I traveled on the bts extension for free? That is not a sound part of your "argument".

You seem to be justifying the, admittedly now, exorbitant cost of 1 stop on the extension with the fact that it was free, and that it will be lowered. That is your flawed argument? "it was free, so they should be able to charge anything they want now... oh, and also because it will go down soon and lowered to reasonable levels". lol.

Yes I admit that I am dense, I do live in the vain hope that most people can see the bigger picture and not be obsessed by their petty gripes. However, we are all human and we all have such tendencies. You are whining about this as you keep asserting a disposition of injustice and going on yet again about a petty gripe that completely misses the perspective of the bigger picture whislt choosing to ignore why the payment model exists in the first place.

I have explained why the flat fare charge has been implemented for this extension. I have explained that those who use the extension had a significant period of free travel while everyone else had to pay - 8.5 months! You don't state how long you have been using the extension, so if as you infer it has only been a short period - unlike those that waited years for it to open and did have the benefit of the free travel period- then really with respect, you have even less reason to complain.

I have highlighted something which seemingly you were unaware of, that this flat rate will in fact be reduced in 2 weeks when in two months all other fares are being increased. I have taken the time to proffer a suggested alternative to your "not a good deal" concern. You can save that extra flat fare, "exorbitant cost" as you characterise it and take a bus. In fact, you can travel that extra distance for free under the govts 'free transport for the poor' program!!! You should be happy that you have an alternative given your sense of injustice about this payment mode; - most don't have alternatives in BKK.

I also gave you a potential window to be thankful that you have something to gripe about given most in Bangkok DO NOT have access to a metro line. This is the big picture. If you were able to look beyond your petty gripe at the big picture you would acknowledge that you are lucky that the BMA funded and built this extension - in fact you should specifically thank previous Gov Apirak. Otherwise it would still not be built as the central govt was not going to do it at the time.

Yet you want to go on about whether or not the min fare is 20 baht from Mo Chit to On Nut for multi trip holders when it is also 40 baht for cash payers in a thread which was discussing fare increases which primarily impacted cash payers. You think you have a gotcha moment because I stated the fare was 40 baht when both of us are equally correct and incorrect with out respective statements as we were not comparing like. This is your major retort point seemingly in this discussion whilst you choose to ignore all of the other points. Again, highlighting the lack of perspective on your part and your inability to see the bigger picture and only focus on a petty aspect.

There is an alternative way of looking at it is this which may help you have some perspective.

For anyone living along the busy Phahonyothin corridor north of Mo Chit who has been waiting for the Dark Green BTS line ext from Mo Chit to Saphan Mai to be built, they might be wondering what the heck you are complaining about. The traffic conditions on Phahonyothin rd are far worse than Sukhumvit beyond On Nut - that is really saying something!

Originally when the BTS liens forst opened in Dec 1999, this ext was planned to be completed by the end of 2006. The PM Taksin promised in the 2005 election that it would be done by 2008. Since 2007, EVERY SINGLE YEAR, the government in power promised that it work would start the following year. Now, it is 2013, has work started? NO!

(The tender might finally go out mid this year but the earliest this ext would be completed - all going well - is 2017/18). So anyone living along this corridor will be using this ext some 12 years after it was due and a good 6-8 years after the Bearing ext opened.

I could go through a similar process for every single extension and new line in BKK. And each line has a catchment of 100s of thousands of people. All of whom have a valid reason to gripe and whine.

There are plenty of substantive and significant issues to have a gripe about regarding mass transport in BKK;

-the private concessionaire model with debt laden operators,

- lack of rolling stock to keep up with pax levels (related to the above),

- no integrated ticketing between BTS, MRT & ARL let alone buses and ferries (promised since 2008),

- the fact that most exts and new lines are many, many years behind schedule - in some cases decades,

- the lack of integrated planning and implementation,

- dysfunctional decision making and turf fights between govt agencies

- etc

Your petty gripe is not one of them.

Be thankful that you have an extension that you can use and accept the payment model for the explained reason that is has been introduced. It is a appropriate in the circumstances. If you are new to BKK as you infer, then you really have no reason to complain compared with long suffering long term residents. Try to look beyond your own pettiness and see the forest from the trees. Most living in BKK have much more to gripe about.

Regards.

You are once again turning my statement about not agreeing that the extension is a "good deal" if you go one stop into an end of the world "gripe". In essence, you seem to be the one augmenting my opinion into the whining and griping category.

The funny part about all this, as much as you know, is that I did not know they were going to reduce the fare on the extension. Isn't that ironic? I thought the fare was a little out of line, as you can see in my original post when I said "I don't think it is a good deal (if you are going one stop on the extension)", and now they are reducing it lol. So, how out of line can my "gripe" (actually opinion) be when they are in fact reducing the fare 33%. lol

Than you are brazen enough to ASSUME I'll keep "griping" unjustifiably after they bring it down to 10 baht. No my friend, where in the world did you get that idea. I see your other posts aren't filled with terrible assumptions. What did I do to deserve you making up my mind for me about all this?

Anyway, I am glad the fare will go down to 10 baht. I think it is fair for those daily commuters (of which I am guessing you are not one; I gotta get one assumption in there myself ) who get off at punnawiti and bang chak. And yes, even I will agree this is a "good deal" at 10 baht, especially if you are going the full five stops...I would have actually agreed with that from the start at 15 baht. But this insanely unjustifiable and petty gripe (that was acted upon with a reduction lol) was only about the CURRENT price for going one stop into the extension relative to the daily commuting "BTS" rates up to the extension.

Edited May 8, 2013 by utalkin2me

[utalkin2me]

I just wanted to mention in closing that although Lakegeneve and I obviously disagree on this point, that I have always appreciated his informed posts, and continue to - and I'm sure everybody else does as well. Please forgive me if any of my posts were out of line; I know it doesn't do anybody any favors to discourage such an informed poster from coming by (not that I could even have that effect on him, but just in case).

Regards.

Edited May 9, 2013 by utalkin2me

[MaxLee]

One of the BTS trains seems to have a problem right now. As many passengers got off the Thong Lo station.

I guess it's a problem with those jerky breaks, that was so obvious for months now....

[Lakegeneve]

I just wanted to mention in closing that although Lakegeneve and I obviously disagree on this point, that I have always appreciated his informed posts, and continue to - and I'm sure everybody else does as well. Please forgive me if any of my posts were out of line; I know it doesn't do anybody any favors to discourage such an informed poster from coming by (not that I could even have that effect on him, but just in case).

Regards.

No, actually I wasn't ......talkin2you that is! (Couldn't resist that one). I was a tad confused but obviously you are meand, 2 accounts for whatever reason?

It is all fine, there is no discouragement as we have having a discussion expressing differing views and debating merits of an issue(s) for better or for worse. Such is never taken personally on my part and you are obviously mature enough not to engage in pettiness or name calling as some do. Yes, I do not use this section of the BTS system more than a few times a month.

In relation to the fare reduction issue, 33% from 15 to 10 baht from next week, please do be aware that it is purely about populist politics and not economic policy or concerns the fare was too high. The BMA Gov promised this in his reelection as he did for the BRT which is being reduced to 5 baht from 10 baht! Both reductions don't make any economic sense given the BMA needs to recoup funds for both projects but the Gov felt the need to counter some of the PT's candidates more outlandish transport proposals and this is the one area of the BTS system where the BMA can make a unilateral call.

Yes I made some assumption regarding the 10 baht fare not negating your original concern (I won't use the g word) given that it was regarding the payment model. Ergo, even a reduction should not negate that original concern one would think??

As has been elucidated, the payment model is based on the BMA recouping funds for the ext which would not have been built otherwise. I still think that framework helps you to counter the concern that you have. Yet again, imagine not having the extension.

The interesting issue will be in 2016 when the section currently being built from Bearing to Paknam opens. This is funded by the central govt via the MRTA (Bearing is the BMA city limits) as it is wholly within Samut Prakhan province. At that point, obviously the flat fare for the 5 stations will, most likely, need to be withdrawn and a new shared payment agreement implemented. Or it may be continued? We'll have to wait and see.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One of the BTS trains seems to have a problem right now. As many passengers got off the Thong Lo station.

I guess it's a problem with those jerky breaks, that was so obvious for months now....

Yes, on the way home yesterday afternoon on the Suk Line, I caught some of their loudspeaker announcements re apologizing for the delay and service interruption. But it didn't say what exactly was going on... And I got off before reaching out to the Thong Lor area.

[utalkin2me]

I just took a quick glance at the prices yesterday. I did in fact pay 10 baht for the extension as Lakegeneve mentioned. The other fares seem to have increased. I noticed on nut to pra kanong (one stop) is 25 baht, and to go 2 stop is 30 baht now. The max price is 50 baht. I didn't check the rabbit card rates. I am sure all this info in on the bts website too.

[utalkin2me]

One of the BTS trains seems to have a problem right now. As many passengers got off the Thong Lo station.

I guess it's a problem with those jerky breaks, that was so obvious for months now....

Yes, on the way home yesterday afternoon on the Suk Line, I caught some of their loudspeaker announcements re apologizing for the delay and service interruption. But it didn't say what exactly was going on... And I got off before reaching out to the Thong Lor area.

I have been on twice now where there was a severe jerk, then the train seemed to have passed it's mark on both occasions. In both cases, the trains sat for about 3 minutes, put it in reverse, and then opened the doors. Delays were about 3 or 4 minutes each time. One time the doors actually opened, but nobody could get out because the new upright things (don't know what to call them) they have installed at siam were blocking the exits.

Both these instances took place at siam btw. With the short "headways" I mentioned above, it is a little scary. Although, both times this happened was coming west into siam from bearing, the less than a minute headways were headed east TO bearing.

[Lakegeneve]

One of the BTS trains seems to have a problem right now. As many passengers got off the Thong Lo station.

I guess it's a problem with those jerky breaks, that was so obvious for months now....

Yes, on the way home yesterday afternoon on the Suk Line, I caught some of their loudspeaker announcements re apologizing for the delay and service interruption. But it didn't say what exactly was going on... And I got off before reaching out to the Thong Lor area.

I have been on twice now where there was a severe jerk, then the train seemed to have passed it's mark on both occasions. In both cases, the trains sat for about 3 minutes, put it in reverse, and then opened the doors. Delays were about 3 or 4 minutes each time. One time the doors actually opened, but nobody could get out because the new upright things (don't know what to call them) they have installed at siam were blocking the exits.

Both these instances took place at siam btw. With the short "headways" I mentioned above, it is a little scary. Although, both times this happened was coming west into siam from bearing, the less than a minute headways were headed east TO bearing.

Platform door screens, though these are half size. There is a pic and some info on the New Skytrain thread, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-6 (#126)

Wiki has a decent page to read up on them, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors

They virtually cut suicides and platform accidents to nothing. However, seems like some drivers are having trouble and an auto alignment system is not yet functional. Wonder if it just the CNR rolling stock doing this?

[MaxPag]

They have the same in Paris's metro on the line 1, and well, I think some technique is necessary to be able to stop at the right place, by experience, they were sometimes a little bit off, but you could still go in and out, for sure.