Grumpy Expat Car Drivers From Hell

[manarak]

When in the UK are you allowed to pass on the left on a single lane road? Neither are it supposed to be done here, but many expats start to drive like the Thai's. Pass on the right hand side and if the guy cuts you off he's an ass.... Too many expats forget about normal driving rules when in Thailand and then get killed in stupid accidents. As to allowing a gap infront of the vehicle for a mc to pass, well it have happened many times that when I do that the mc trying to pass infront of my vehicle can't enter the next lane as its already full of other mc's. In the end my lane is blocked by the mc and when the traffic light turns green the vehicles driving within the rules can't go. Courtesy works both ways.

There is also a traffic rule that says all vehicles must use the left lane when it's free.

As you say, I drive local style. I see no reason to take further risks by crossing 2 lanes to overtake the vehicle, as the left lane was free.

Regarding the gap, I have no issue with drivers closing the gap by default.

I am not so arrogant to request car drivers to give MC drivers special privileges. I just request car drivers to not hinder motorcyclists on purpose.

I do have an issue with drivers that are already stopped waiting - with a gap - and who then close the gap when they see a motorcycle approaching.

"lane blocked by the MC" is highly unlikely, because if a MC cannot move, how can a car?

Outed grumpy expat car driver count so far: 4

Edited May 2, 2013 by manarak

[Gsxrnz]

... or as I used to say even in the US before moving to Thailand:

You can be right and dead at the same time.

Well I was going to wait to the end for this post but your avatar is pertinent to it.

So here goes. Back home we called them the hat people. Get in set themselves up mirrors and all that start the car and then using both hands pull their hat down then precede to grab the wheel at the ten o clock and two o clock positions and begin to creep into traffic slowing the other traffic down while they creep along.

Yep, we have hat people too, but generally this species is non-aggressive and does things so slowly that they are predictable at 500 meters. The GOM's are a different breed entirely as per my earlier post. Have o be careful though because occasionally you get a hybrid and a GOM can wear a hat, thus causing confusion. Best advice is that if you see what to all intents and purposes is a hat person, but displays behavious as though they are a GOM, treat them as you would a GOM not wearing a hat.

I think the GOM count on this thread is about 6 now isn't it? Although a couple could be hat people I suppose.

[hellodolly]

You need to realize that you are on a motor vehicle and as such you don't have any more rights than any other vehicles. You want to pass on the left, just be aware that is a blind side and most motorists are not going to see you there, so pass at your own risk, and don't get bent out of shape when you are blocked

Does your motorcycle license have a special permit that allows you to be first in line at a light ? Are the lines that are painted on the road just a guide for you since you are small so don't have to use them ? Since you are always in such a rush does that mean when traffic is stopped you have the right to drive the wrong way ?

Why can't I take my car and drive up on the foot path because I don't want to wait

Now my rant is over

Stupid rant for sure.. if all the motorcycles kept the distance on traffic lights and such you would be waiting much longer. There is no harm in keeping room for the mc to pass you. Just be happy there are many mc just imagine they would all drive cars how busy it would be then. Come to think of it would be much better if more people drove a mc as they take up far less space and use far less <deleted>

>Since you noticed that the driver was not thai, therefore not owning a gun, you could have done what all bikers in the world do to xxxxxxx car drivers : a nice kick on the side mirror while overtaking him.

Then you could qualify as a Grumpy expat Motor Bike rider.

Perhaps a thread for the Grumpy expat Motor Bike riders is called for now.

[carib102]

When in the UK are you allowed to pass on the left on a single lane road? Neither are it supposed to be done here, but many expats start to drive like the Thai's. Pass on the right hand side and if the guy cuts you off he's an ass.... Too many expats forget about normal driving rules when in Thailand and then get killed in stupid accidents. As to allowing a gap infront of the vehicle for a mc to pass, well it have happened many times that when I do that the mc trying to pass infront of my vehicle can't enter the next lane as its already full of other mc's. In the end my lane is blocked by the mc and when the traffic light turns green the vehicles driving within the rules can't go. Courtesy works both ways.

There is also a traffic rule that says all vehicles must use the left lane when it's free.

As you say, I drive local style. I see no reason to take further risks by crossing 2 lanes to overtake the vehicle, as the left lane was free.

Regarding the gap, I have no issue with drivers closing the gap by default.

I am not so arrogant to request car drivers to give MC drivers special privileges. I just request car drivers to not hinder motorcyclists on purpose.

I do have an issue with drivers that are already stopped waiting - with a gap - and who then close the gap when they see a motorcycle approaching.

"lane blocked by the MC" is highly unlikely, because if a MC cannot move, how can a car?

Outed grumpy expat car driver count so far: 4

Not sure about Pattaya, but in Bangkok the left lane is rarely free because of sidewalk vendors/double parked cars

I'm also not sure about the driving laws in Thailand...is it legal for MC's to pass cars whenever and wherever they like? TBH I'm tired of having to remain triply vigilant when driving because of all the MC's who feel they can pass wherever and whenever they like. And I can assure you that when at a red light in Bangkok I ALWAYS block at least one side and the front gap...to many times I have been trapped in a sea of MC's when the light turns green because of those gaps. Despite the preceding (which may sound differently) I have no animosity towards MC's as long as they obey the rules of the road.

rant over and GOECD count now +1 I suppose (though I'm not that old TBH)

[lumply]

It's obviously good advice to drive defensively. Reading other posts how is it that careful driving, and therefore slower, often more considerate, certainly more responsible behaviour is associated with someone from the older generation. Well, let me say, after nearly 30 years of negotiating lunatic driving habits in the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia, sans an accident, people of my ilk may know a tad more about survival techniques, so don't be too harsh on us please.

I guess the point I am making is that the younger fraternity are generally more impatient on the roads and get p*##$d off more quickly when things are not going their way. What's the hurry and necessity to overt/undertake at that particular time and under those particular circumstances when someone is purposely blocking you? It's potentially a dangerous scenario, right? Hang back man and enjoy the ride. Anyway safe biking to you; I'm sure you're a good rider really.

[nontabury]

Since you noticed that the driver was not thai, therefore not owning a gun, you could have done what all bikers in the world do to xxxxxxx car drivers : a nice kick on the side mirror while overtaking him.

Sounds what an ignorant coward would do.

[lumply]

Since you noticed that the driver was not thai, therefore not owning a gun, you could have done what all bikers in the world do to xxxxxxx car drivers : a nice kick on the side mirror while overtaking him.

What an absolutely immature attitude to take. Is that what you would teach your children? But then maybe you are only joking.

[manarak]

It's obviously good advice to drive defensively. Reading other posts how is it that careful driving, and therefore slower, often more considerate, certainly more responsible behaviour is associated with someone from the older generation. Well, let me say, after nearly 30 years of negotiating lunatic driving habits in the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia, sans an accident, people of my ilk may know a tad more about survival techniques, so don't be too harsh on us please.

I guess the point I am making is that the younger fraternity are generally more impatient on the roads and get p*##$d off more quickly when things are not going their way. What's the hurry and necessity to overt/undertake at that particular time and under those particular circumstances when someone is purposely blocking you? It's potentially a dangerous scenario, right? Hang back man and enjoy the ride. Anyway safe biking to you; I'm sure you're a good rider really.

I certainly was never in danger because of that lunatic's manoeuvers.

I drive defensively, I mean it.

Impatience is causing accidents, no doubt.

But wanting to pass a single car doing just a bit more than 40 Kph on the right lane of a 2 lane road with a free left lane and no other traffic at the time cannot be called impatience, just "normal".

[candypants]

Have you got a Big Bike?

If so, get in the overtaking position, de-clutch, rev the engine hard with lotsa noise.

The car driver usually moves to the left and you can glide by safely whilst he is muttering stuff like <deleted>, Who does he think he is, Jezus H C!! etc.

But, job done, you were seen and passed safely.

Just sayin

nope, a yamaha nouvo and I would rather die than owning a noisy bike.

poor choice of words indeed.

[manarak]

When in the UK are you allowed to pass on the left on a single lane road? Neither are it supposed to be done here, but many expats start to drive like the Thai's. Pass on the right hand side and if the guy cuts you off he's an ass.... Too many expats forget about normal driving rules when in Thailand and then get killed in stupid accidents. As to allowing a gap infront of the vehicle for a mc to pass, well it have happened many times that when I do that the mc trying to pass infront of my vehicle can't enter the next lane as its already full of other mc's. In the end my lane is blocked by the mc and when the traffic light turns green the vehicles driving within the rules can't go. Courtesy works both ways.

There is also a traffic rule that says all vehicles must use the left lane when it's free.

As you say, I drive local style. I see no reason to take further risks by crossing 2 lanes to overtake the vehicle, as the left lane was free.

Regarding the gap, I have no issue with drivers closing the gap by default.

I am not so arrogant to request car drivers to give MC drivers special privileges. I just request car drivers to not hinder motorcyclists on purpose.

I do have an issue with drivers that are already stopped waiting - with a gap - and who then close the gap when they see a motorcycle approaching.

"lane blocked by the MC" is highly unlikely, because if a MC cannot move, how can a car?

Outed grumpy expat car driver count so far: 4

Not sure about Pattaya, but in Bangkok the left lane is rarely free because of sidewalk vendors/double parked cars

I'm also not sure about the driving laws in Thailand...is it legal for MC's to pass cars whenever and wherever they like? TBH I'm tired of having to remain triply vigilant when driving because of all the MC's who feel they can pass wherever and whenever they like. And I can assure you that when at a red light in Bangkok I ALWAYS block at least one side and the front gap...to many times I have been trapped in a sea of MC's when the light turns green because of those gaps. Despite the preceding (which may sound differently) I have no animosity towards MC's as long as they obey the rules of the road.

rant over and GOECD count now +1 I suppose (though I'm not that old TBH)

I don't focus on old people. The thread's title is "Grumpy Expat Car Drivers from Hell".

I don't mind cars choosing a place to stop and remaining there for the length of the phase, but people going out of their way moving their car again after it had stopped to specially hinder motorcycles are very annoying.

[carib102]

When in the UK are you allowed to pass on the left on a single lane road? Neither are it supposed to be done here, but many expats start to drive like the Thai's. Pass on the right hand side and if the guy cuts you off he's an ass.... Too many expats forget about normal driving rules when in Thailand and then get killed in stupid accidents. As to allowing a gap infront of the vehicle for a mc to pass, well it have happened many times that when I do that the mc trying to pass infront of my vehicle can't enter the next lane as its already full of other mc's. In the end my lane is blocked by the mc and when the traffic light turns green the vehicles driving within the rules can't go. Courtesy works both ways.

There is also a traffic rule that says all vehicles must use the left lane when it's free.

As you say, I drive local style. I see no reason to take further risks by crossing 2 lanes to overtake the vehicle, as the left lane was free.

Regarding the gap, I have no issue with drivers closing the gap by default.

I am not so arrogant to request car drivers to give MC drivers special privileges. I just request car drivers to not hinder motorcyclists on purpose.

I do have an issue with drivers that are already stopped waiting - with a gap - and who then close the gap when they see a motorcycle approaching.

"lane blocked by the MC" is highly unlikely, because if a MC cannot move, how can a car?

Outed grumpy expat car driver count so far: 4

Not sure about Pattaya, but in Bangkok the left lane is rarely free because of sidewalk vendors/double parked cars

I'm also not sure about the driving laws in Thailand...is it legal for MC's to pass cars whenever and wherever they like? TBH I'm tired of having to remain triply vigilant when driving because of all the MC's who feel they can pass wherever and whenever they like. And I can assure you that when at a red light in Bangkok I ALWAYS block at least one side and the front gap...to many times I have been trapped in a sea of MC's when the light turns green because of those gaps. Despite the preceding (which may sound differently) I have no animosity towards MC's as long as they obey the rules of the road.

rant over and GOECD count now +1 I suppose (though I'm not that old TBH)

I don't focus on old people. The thread's title is "Grumpy Expat Car Drivers from Hell".

I don't mind cars choosing a place to stop and remaining there for the length of the phase, but people going out of their way moving their car again after it had stopped to specially hinder motorcycles are very annoying.

Sorry, I thought there were some references to old people in the thread, I see now that they weren't yours.

LOL...no I don't move the car. I've become quite adept at stopping in such a way as to avoid gaps

[laislica]

It's obviously good advice to drive defensively. Reading other posts how is it that careful driving, and therefore slower, often more considerate, certainly more responsible behaviour is associated with someone from the older generation. Well, let me say, after nearly 30 years of negotiating lunatic driving habits in the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia, sans an accident, people of my ilk may know a tad more about survival techniques, so don't be too harsh on us please.

I guess the point I am making is that the younger fraternity are generally more impatient on the roads and get p*##$d off more quickly when things are not going their way. What's the hurry and necessity to overt/undertake at that particular time and under those particular circumstances when someone is purposely blocking you? It's potentially a dangerous scenario, right? Hang back man and enjoy the ride. Anyway safe biking to you; I'm sure you're a good rider really.

Driving in Saudi at the end of the 60's was an eye opener for sure and I fully support your post.

May I suggest that the younger brigade have not had their reaction timed slowed down yet - it will come - trust me!

When I was younger, say in my fifties, I didn't have problems and could see at a junction/ xroads in a split second and have the situation all weighed up, ready to go or not and safely I might add. I was driving to work from north London to Docklands every day, in all weathers.

However, the clock ticks on and now, at over 70, I will stop, look and listen (just like you should LOL) and I recognise that my reaction times are slower.

Being retired doesn't help either, no rush, no need to stay as alert as I used to.....

I used 125 m/c's for years and had the odd near miss, often because "I didn't see you!".

When I started riding bigger bikes for commuting (500-750's), no problem because I could de-clutch and rev and be heard!!

I learned to stay in the platoon of traffic leaving lights - once, and only once, I was first away, accelerated like hell and got away from the crowd by a hundred feet or more. It was then that a car tried to rush out of a side road to beat the traffic, he was almost Teeboned! I only needed the experience once, I suggest the OP reconsiders his priorities, he has already been advised by JLC that you can be right and dead at the same time.

A good topic to post though, it has brought out a lot of good points and who knows the good some of the advice on this thread will bring to some drivers and riders in the future.

BTW, my No.1 brother-in-law often drives us about, he is of course Thai, he is the most considerate driver I have ever encountered. His anticipation of other driver/riders is amazing, he always lets the others go, gets out of the way to let em, he increases our journey time by as much as 1 or 2 minutes per hour of driving!!!!!

He is obviously a selfish person because he drives with caution - only because he has his wife, child and other family members in his care!!

[manarak]

I suggest the OP reconsiders his priorities, he has already been advised by JLC that you can be right and dead at the same time.

I'm a careful and defensive driver, what makes you think I need to reconsider my priorities? Edited May 2, 2013 by manarak

[Morakot]

good on him but only what the gap closing is concerned. Now you can start ranting again.

I don't understand your post?

Is this a requirement to participate in this forum?

[hadi8253]

left - right - left - ....

maybe he was drunk ?

[laislica]

I suggest the OP reconsiders his priorities, he has already been advised by JLC that you can be right and dead at the same time.

I'm a careful and defensive driver, what makes you think I need to reconsider my priorities?

As they say here: Up to you!

[i claudius]

Sounds like a typical Driver from the UK,getting on in years,

Can't hear, can't see,properly, gout,inhibits good foot control,arthritic, so body movement,is restricted.

They wish is to impede all other road user at all cost.

Normal driving position is leaning forward,peering over the steering wheel.

Avoid at all costs.

Far more deadly than the worst Thai driver.

Or some young guy with no brain ,riding a m/cycle all over the place as if he owns the road.,rant over.

[arthurwait]

You just need to apply defensive driving and learn to read the traffic better.

As far as I am concerned, everybody else on the road are potential accidents, I just read the traffic, adjust and always ready for a surprise.

I drive defensively, no worries

I am just puzzled by what appears to be intentional misbehavior by some drivers.

Your OP states you tried to go down the inside.

Would you please elaborate on why this justifies swerving?

(as I point out in a further post, the left lane was free and the car was not observing traffic laws by not using it)

Outed grumpy expat car driver count so far: 3

I didn't say it did justify it, but going down the inside is quite the opposite of defensive, and intentional misbehaviour.

[laislica]

I drive defensively, no worries

You just need to apply defensive driving and learn to read the traffic better.

As far as I am concerned, everybody else on the road are potential accidents, I just read the traffic, adjust and always ready for a surprise.

I am just puzzled by what appears to be intentional misbehavior by some drivers.

Your OP states you tried to go down the inside.

Would you please elaborate on why this justifies swerving?

(as I point out in a further post, the left lane was free and the car was not observing traffic laws by not using it)

Outed grumpy expat car driver count so far: 3

I didn't say it did justify it, but going down the inside is quite the opposite of defensive, and intentional misbehaviour.

Quite so Arthur, play with the Bull, get the horns - up to him.

Reminds me a bit like junior school, "but Sir, everyone was doing it!"

so then it's OK?

Let's hope that if an Oops Sh\-it, moment happens, it's not too severe and he can learn and live and be in 100% complete.

BTW I hate this "You have made too many quotes thing"

[pattayadingo]

Sounds like a typical Driver from the UK,getting on in years,

Can't hear, can't see,properly, gout,inhibits good foot control,arthritic, so body movement,is restricted.

They wish is to impede all other road user at all cost.

Normal driving position is leaning forward,peering over the steering wheel.

Avoid at all costs.

Far more deadly than the worst Thai driver.

Or an Aussie, American, Canadian, Frenchman .......... blah blah.

[robblok]

Sounds like a typical Driver from the UK,getting on in years,

Can't hear, can't see,properly, gout,inhibits good foot control,arthritic, so body movement,is restricted.

They wish is to impede all other road user at all cost.

Normal driving position is leaning forward,peering over the steering wheel.

Avoid at all costs.

Far more deadly than the worst Thai driver.

Or an Aussie, American, Canadian, Frenchman .......... blah blah.

Dont forget the Dutch.. come on i feel left out

[Ajaan]

Ugh. Sounds like the OP has had an encounter with one of the uglier exports of my country, the US car driver. One of the reasons I haven't owned a car in the US since 1990, nor driven one since about 2006. My sympathies. Just be lucky he didn't have his gun with him!

But seriously, as I don't drive in Thailand, I've never encountered this new(ish?) type of farang poison, the Grumpy Expat Driver From Hell, but I often encounter The Angry Farang Pedestrian on Lower Sukhumvit.

These douchebags square out their shoulders as wide as they'll go, plant a vicious snarl on their face, stare straight ahead, and barrel down the sidewalk in an extremely aggressive fashion, barely missing anyone who doesn't swerve or jump out of their way. Usually it's a man "small in stature," if you get my drift--I'm nearly 2 meters tall--but once in awhile it's one of those huge, gorilla-like muscled buffoons, even taller than me.

By their body language, 100 yard stare and contorted mouth, it's very clear that this type of creature is the long-term expat farang who spends most of his time in bars, loves to complain about Thailand and Thais, and (specifically as regards walking) is disgusted with the way Thais are totally incapable of walking on a sidewalk with any sense of rationality or predictability (which is very true, btw) and "just not gonna take it anymore".

Anyway, I'll never understand why this type of scum, if they're so fed up and angry with Thais (AND their fellow expats), doesn't just pack up and go be miserable somewhere else...?

[ableguy]

You need to realize that you are on a motor vehicle and as such you don't have any more rights than any other vehicles. You want to pass on the left, just be aware that is a blind side and most motorists are not going to see you there, so pass at your own risk, and don't get bent out of shape when you are blocked

Does your motorcycle license have a special permit that allows you to be first in line at a light ? Are the lines that are painted on the road just a guide for you since you are small so don't have to use them ? Since you are always in such a rush does that mean when traffic is stopped you have the right to drive the wrong way ?

Why can't I take my car and drive up on the foot path because I don't want to wait

Now my rant is over

My understading is under Thai law motor cycles have to overtake on the left side , it is illegal to overtake on the right so watch your left mirror, if you clip one you are in the wrong.

[bunta71]

It can take several years of Asian driving to evolve to the point of understanding and implementing the Thai style of driving. I am not talking about the young helmetless hauling ass individual but more of the general style overall. When I first started driving bikes in Asia, I felt that every time an approaching car pulled into my lane to pass, it was attempted murder. It took a while for me to calm down and realize that there is usually room for all three vehicles and that I needed to just move over and keep on moving on. Once though, while the other driver assumed that I was paying attention when I wasn't expecting this the lady missed hitting me head on at extremely high speed by about 6 inches. Pay attention every second no matter how beautiful that girl walking down the sidewalk may be.... learn and adapt to the "style" of driving here and eventually see how it all works together MOST of the time. I am knocking on wood here. Saturday I turn 60 and that marks 50 years of biking starting with an old Tote Goat and then on to a mini-bike, Honda trail 55, trail 90 and so on and so on. Cracks me up that I have a brand new Honda Wave that basically is the same as the old 50cc,55cc,90cc and then 110cc from back then.

[arthurwait]

You need to realize that you are on a motor vehicle and as such you don't have any more rights than any other vehicles. You want to pass on the left, just be aware that is a blind side and most motorists are not going to see you there, so pass at your own risk, and don't get bent out of shape when you are blocked

Does your motorcycle license have a special permit that allows you to be first in line at a light ? Are the lines that are painted on the road just a guide for you since you are small so don't have to use them ? Since you are always in such a rush does that mean when traffic is stopped you have the right to drive the wrong way ?

Why can't I take my car and drive up on the foot path because I don't want to wait

Now my rant is over

My understading is under Thai law motor cycles have to overtake on the left side , it is illegal to overtake on the right so watch your left mirror, if you clip one you are in the wrong.

Then my insurance guy must not know his job.

[itchybum]

Motorbikes need to stay in the far left and never deviate out of that little lane for them.

Speaking of crazy drivers though, I had to hit the brakes 3 times with one idiot this afternoon to get him off my tail, the first time I heard the screech of his tyres, that always makes me smile. Third time he pulled out and around as he got an eye full of my middle finger.

Earlier today another regular idiot that does the same xxxx every day behind me, he was in front this time and I saw him do it to 3 other cars, then over take 2 on a sharp bend with oncoming traffic, then a couple hundred metres later on a straight stretch pass another 2 cars with oncoming traffic. This is not a wide road.

Edited May 2, 2013 by metisdead

[laislica]

Motorbikes need to stay in the far left and never deviate out of that little lane for them.

Speaking of crazy drivers though, I had to hit the brakes 3 times with one idiot this afternoon to get him off my tail, the first time I heard the screech of his tyres, that always makes me smile. Third time he pulled out and around as he got an eye full of my middle finger.

Earlier today another regular idiot that does the same xxxx every day behind me, he was in front this time and I saw him do it to 3 other cars, then over take 2 on a sharp bend with oncoming traffic, then a couple hundred metres later on a straight stretch pass another 2 cars with oncoming traffic. This is not a wide road.

I'm a tad confused, first you mention motorbikes and then of a crazy driver.

Was the vehicle on your tail a car or a bike?

[Digitalbanana]

The O/P was / is in Pattaya and should live with it. Driver was probably pissed on way back from Soi6 so what do you expect?

[NoshowJones]

You need to realize that you are on a motor vehicle and as such you don't have any more rights than any other vehicles. You want to pass on the left, just be aware that is a blind side and most motorists are not going to see you there, so pass at your own risk, and don't get bent out of shape when you are blocked

Does your motorcycle license have a special permit that allows you to be first in line at a light ? Are the lines that are painted on the road just a guide for you since you are small so don't have to use them ? Since you are always in such a rush does that mean when traffic is stopped you have the right to drive the wrong way ?

Why can't I take my car and drive up on the foot path because I don't want to wait

Now my rant is over

When in Thailand, drive as the Thais do. Learn the local ways or park your car for good.

No No No. There is never an excuse for driving dangerously. As well as being a danger to other drivers, what about pedestrians?

[NoshowJones]

Since you noticed that the driver was not thai, therefore not owning a gun, you could have done what all bikers in the world do to xxxxxxx car drivers : a nice kick on the side mirror while overtaking him.

Sounds what an ignorant coward would do.

But who was the coward in the first place?