Irritable Bowel Syndrome

[robblok]

I don't think that kefir grains are a grain like wheat, but are a culture that grows from yeast and bacteria.

I would be seriously interested to know if a person could make it from a starter of those organisms and keep it going, the way you would sourdough. I always keep a sourdough starter going and I've had it for years and years. I just use a small amount of it to inoculate a new batch of flour and water. I wonder if kefir would just keep growing if fed fresh food in the form of milk.

I'm not saying either way, but I wonder.

I got a set and i keep brewing it.. it just never ends it goes on and on all the time. I put the kefir in a fridge to "rest" a bit after 2 large brews, because its o hot here in Thailand. But 2 large brews keep me going for over a week.

[NeverSure]

I don't think that kefir grains are a grain like wheat, but are a culture that grows from yeast and bacteria.

I would be seriously interested to know if a person could make it from a starter of those organisms and keep it going, the way you would sourdough. I always keep a sourdough starter going and I've had it for years and years. I just use a small amount of it to inoculate a new batch of flour and water. I wonder if kefir would just keep growing if fed fresh food in the form of milk.

I'm not saying either way, but I wonder.

I got a set and i keep brewing it.. it just never ends it goes on and on all the time. I put the kefir in a fridge to "rest" a bit after 2 large brews, because its o hot here in Thailand. But 2 large brews keep me going for over a week.

That's really good to know. I kinda figured it should. The process doesn't sound a lot different from sourdough except that sourdough is only your choice of yeast variety for flavor, fed with flour and water.

That probably means that Mobi, above, could start some with goat milk if she can find the milk and if the cow milk issue isn't solved for her.

[tropo]

It seems that Kefir is usually made with cow's milk, so as I am lactose intolerant, will the benefits outweigh the lactose downside?

(I am assuming the kefir sold in Friendship is made with cow's milk)

You shouldn't have a problem with kefir. The kefir grains (live bacterial and yeast mass) feed on the lactose. If you leave the fermentation process going long enough all the lactose will have disappeared. Trust me, when you drink it you'll realise there's no lactose (milk sugar) left. It's extremely sour.

There's an added bonus too. Once the kefir has done it's magic in your digestive system there's a possibility your lactose intolerance will be cured.

I find I can eat things now that caused digestive disturbances pre-kefir.

[tropo]

I am no expert about kefir, but as I understood the kefir grains eat / use the lactose so you get left with protein and fat. That was at least what i thought.

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/reducing-lactose-content-kefir

below it is explained better as i can.

That was a good article. I don't agree there'll be any lactose left if you leave the process to run until full completion. The kefir grains feed on the lactose, and when it has all been used up the process stops. No lactose = no more fermentation.

The trick would be to stir it often to make sure the lactose has been used up completely. The lactose converts to lactic acid, giving it a very sour taste.

I wouldn't recommend a lactose intolerant person drink kefir sold in a store. The reason being that store sold kefir is made for taste and they don't want it to be too sour, meaning there is still lactose in it.

[watcharacters]

...

But I don't think you can beat the live enzymes in the sprouted grains for overall health benefits.

Based on what? It sounds like there are many "true believers" about kefir vs. kimchi. I'd like to see some SCIENCE. That's all I am saying.

No this link doesn't really qualify but it's still interesting:

http://www.squidoo.com/Kimchi-Health-Benefits

.

Can we throw durian into the mix?

[tropo]

...

But I don't think you can beat the live enzymes in the sprouted grains for overall health benefits.

Based on what? It sounds like there are many "true believers" about kefir vs. kimchi. I'd like to see some SCIENCE. That's all I am saying.

No this link doesn't really qualify but it's still interesting:

http://www.squidoo.com/Kimchi-Health-Benefits

.

Can we throw durian into the mix?

Go ahead - the more the merrier.

kefir vs kimchi vs sprouted grains vs durian.

[mommysboy]

I had to deal with long standing mild to moderate IBS. Luckily mine was mainly food intolerance and applying the methods ourtlined by Sheryl and a few others I was able to pinpoint cheap compound milk products (lactose) and alcohol, mainly cheap beer.

Likely Causes:

Lactose

Wheat products

Chilli

Alcohol

Coffee

Can be fruit and veg particularly in a kranky diet.

Likely helpers.

Porridge, muesli.

Toast (if not wheat intolerant)

Potatoes

Apples,

Eggs,

Bananas.

I found it useful just to return the bland diet I was brought up with.

Avoid cheap foods which often contain artificial ingredients which speed up digestion,

although other foods now regarded as unhealthy seemed to help me,eg, fried egg and chips.

I chose probiotic yoghurt as it contained the bacteria most likely to be of benefit for lactose intolerance as far as I could see. It was also likely not to be contaminated. I didn't like the thought of kefir, because it is not regulated, and didn't want to do my own.

If dietary adjustment doesn't work you should really see a doctor as there will be other factors, neurological or behavioural (strenuous exercise worsened mine), and he/she would be able to rule out some other ailment such as colitis.

[Jingthing]

Can we throw durian into the mix?

I don't think durian applies to this discussion. Just because it's smelly?

[Mobi]

I chose probiotic yoghurt as it contained the bacteria most likely to be of benefit for lactose intolerance as far as I could see.

Hi mommysboy, thanks for an interesting post.

Assuming that you're in Thailand, can you explain where you find 'probiotic yoghurt'? Do you mean just ordinary, plain yoghurt?

All the yoghurt I can find in Pattaya is made from cow's milk and I am sure it still contains lactose , as when I tried it, I had adverse results.

I'm a bit dim on all this and would be grateful for enlightenment.

[Sheryl]

I'm not aware of any non cow's milk yogurts around.

At Villa market and the like you can usually get freshly made completely unsweetened plain yogurt -- these will be in clear plastic containers, not the mass produced commercial brands, and will have a much higher amount of lactobacilli. These bacteria feed on lactose, converting it to lactic acid so many lactose intolerant people can tolerate it, but not all -- only one way to find out if you can.

Once you have succeeded in getting such "real" yogurt and if you tolerate it, you can easily make it yourself from thereon. Just add existing yogurt to milk and leave outside or on a window ledge, the bacilli and ambient temperature will do the rest. (cover with cheesecloth or similiar to keep bugs out. It's ready when it is semi-solid in consistency.

Kefir is also an option, as are probiotics available in pharmacies.Brand name Infloran.

Should note that "normal bowel flora" are called that for a reason, i.e. they are normally present in the gut and the human gut provides a hospitable environment for them to flourish. It is not therefore necessary to continually consume probiotics to maintain them there. Probiotics are needed/helpful when something has disturbed the normal flora, antibiotics being the most common culprit. Once normal balance has been restored, it will maintain itself on its own, at least until you again have to take abx or something else throws things off track.

[Jingthing]

...

Probiotics are needed/helpful when something has disturbed the normal flora, antibiotics being the most common culprit. Once normal balance has been restored, it will maintain itself on its own, at least until you again have to take abx or something else throws things off track.

I hear you and that sounds logical but I do wonder if some people are just different and have a tendency not to maintain these balances naturally regardless. I don't really know if this is true and if it is true, what is the cause. Diet perhaps? I am referring to that article I linked about the link to obesity and people with inadequate healthy bacteria in their guts.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

Thank you Sheryl, that is very useful information.

I am going to look for the plain, unsweetened yoghurt in clear containers, as you described. I have not seen anything like that in Big C, or Lotus or Friendship so will look in Villa and Foodland. Has anyone living in Pattaya come across them?

I suffered from chronic stomach upsets for years, and like NeverSure, I saw a wide raft of doctors over a number of years who did every test known to mankind, cost me a small fortune and prescribed expensive medication which was only partially effective. But none of the docs could pin point exactly what was the problem.

The very last specialist I saw was someone at your recommendation who took one look at my 6 inch thick medical file and told me I had IBS.

Shortly after this, I checked to see if I was lactose intolerant by stopping all dairy products and hey presto, my stomach cleared up and my bowels returned to normal for the first time in years.

I then enjoyed a very long period of diarrhoea free living, except for the odd occasion when I inadvertently ate an over-large ice cream or a creamy Latte or something similar and the bowels opened, reminding me that I am lactose intolerant.

I was continuing to enjoy a new lease of life until last year when I went down with a number of complaints, mainly severe chest infections, and also food poisoning, all of which required heavy doses of antibiotics.

Ever since then my stomach has been a bit iffy and I assumed it was probably due to over active antibiotics in my gut. So looked for 'probiotic' type yoghurt but could only find normal plain slightly sweetened yoghurt. I decided it was better than nothing and took one daily for 2- 3 months but continued to suffer with chronic diarrhoea - usually quite badly in the mornings.

I reasoned that the milk in the yoghurt was the culprit, so stopped taking the yoghurt about 1 month ago and my stomach is a lot better, but not perfect.

A couple of weeks ago I bought some Infloran and took 3 capsules. About 2 hours later I had violent diarrhoea and assumed it was the Infloran, but maybe I was wrong.

I still have a stock of Infloran in my fridge and am prepared to give it another go, but wondered how many capsules I should take and for how long. The leaflet says 3 per day, indefinitely, but surely that can't be right, as once you have re-established the 'normal balance' I would assume you can stop taking them.

Shall I try one a day and see what happens?

Edited May 15, 2013 by Mobi

[Sheryl]

You could.

If you are able to find and tolerate "real" yopgurt that may help. kefir will also work.

If I recall correctly your GI saga included a lot of pan-antibiotic treatment so disturbed gut flora is quite possible.

[mommysboy]

regarding the yoghurt? i meant the yolida yoghurt in Tops. I just assumed all yoghurt was madefrom milk. It contains lacto bacilli I think. As far as I am aware the bacteria has already broken down the lactose. To my mind then it seemed a good idea to have some of this in the gut to deal with any lactose present.

[balo]

I just been to the Jomtien supemarket next the bus station , and they sell homemade kefir , only 60 baht for a bottle. The label is written in Russian "Biokefir" and I know a lot of Russians are buying it.

Kefir is the national drink in Russia, every Russian on average drinks 21.5 liters of kefir throughout the year

So I bought a couple of bottles and it tastes great.

Edited May 15, 2013 by balo

[tropo]

I just been to the Jomtien supemarket next the bus station , and they sell homemade kefir , only 60 baht for a bottle. The label is written in Russian "Biokefir" and I know a lot of Russians are buying it.

Kefir is the national drink in Russia, every Russian on average drinks 21.5 liters of kefir throughout the year

So I bought a couple of bottles and it tastes great.

When you it tasted great, what do you mean? I see it on the shelves at Friendship supermarket, but I've never tried it.

I'm asking, because the real deal is very sour and it's hard to imagine many people saying it tastes great. I suspect they're making it more customer friendly.

One way to do that is to stop the fermentation process early so there's still plenty of lactose in it, to keep it a bit sweet... which means a kefir not nearly as potent, however even 50% it would still be beneficial.

It's really better to take control and make it yourself.

[poanoi]

Cloudberries in a buttermilk such as kefir is a fantastically tasty treat

[Jingthing]

The commercial stuff is plenty sour. Lots of people LIKE sour tastes. My issue with it is that it seems to be full fat milk used.

[balo]

I just been to the Jomtien supemarket next the bus station , and they sell homemade kefir , only 60 baht for a bottle. The label is written in Russian "Biokefir" and I know a lot of Russians are buying it.

Kefir is the national drink in Russia, every Russian on average drinks 21.5 liters of kefir throughout the year

So I bought a couple of bottles and it tastes great.

When you it tasted great, what do you mean? I see it on the shelves at Friendship supermarket, but I've never tried it.

I'm asking, because the real deal is very sour and it's hard to imagine many people saying it tastes great. I suspect they're making it more customer friendly.

One way to do that is to stop the fermentation process early so there's still plenty of lactose in it, to keep it a bit sweet... which means a kefir not nearly as potent, however even 50% it would still be beneficial.

It's really better to take control and make it yourself.

The Biokefir is very sour , but I like the taste , I am used to eating natural yoghurt.

But dont drink too much of it .

[tropo]

The commercial stuff is plenty sour. Lots of people LIKE sour tastes. My issue with it is that it seems to be full fat milk used.

I appreciate that, but there are degrees of sour. My home made kefir is much more sour than natural yogurt. Similar to a glass of pure lemon juice.

[Jingthing]

The commercial stuff is plenty sour. Lots of people LIKE sour tastes. My issue with it is that it seems to be full fat milk used.

I appreciate that, but there are degrees of sour. My home made kefir is much more sour than natural yogurt. Similar to a glass of pure lemon juice.

You should try it just for taste. It is VERY sour. As you say, much more sour than yogurt.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

The commercial stuff is plenty sour. Lots of people LIKE sour tastes. My issue with it is that it seems to be full fat milk used.

I appreciate that, but there are degrees of sour. My home made kefir is much more sour than natural yogurt. Similar to a glass of pure lemon juice.

You should try it just for taste. It is VERY sour. As you say, much more sour than yogurt.

Yes, I'll buy one next time I go to Friendship and test it out.

[Tolley]

This is an interesting article on gut health and talks specifically about IBS as diagnosed by doctors and also talks about the very common condition of candida and ways to treat it.

http://www.healthknot.com/gut_health.html

[Jingthing]

They've got some other fermented drinks there as well. Ayran (Iranian Doogh) and Kvass and I think one other. Ayran is sometimes fermented and sometimes just carbonated. I'm guessing the stuff there is fermented.

[Tolley]

I saw a naturopath on the weekend and we were talking about IBS and she reckons oats or porridge for breakfast is really good for IBS.

She also recommends very highly potatoes with the skins.

[tropo]

She also recommends very highly potatoes with the skins.

20 potatoes a day for 60 days may be the answer....

http://20potatoesaday.com/

[Jingthing]

I could see 20 spuds the first day. But I think normal people on all spud diet would get so sick of them, they wouldn't want 20 on later days. That is actually a classic crash diet tactic. Limit yourself to ANYTHING at you will lose weight, just because you'll get disgusted and bored with it. Anything. Marshmallows Mayonnaise. Anything.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

I could see 20 spuds the first day. But I think normal people on all spud diet would get so sick of them, they wouldn't want 20 on later days. That is actually a classic crash diet tactic. Limit yourself to ANYTHING at you will lose weight, just because you'll get disgusted and bored with it. Anything. Marshmallows Mayonnaise. Anything.

I think this guy Chris actually ate his potatoes. He goes out of his way to make it as interesting as possible by changing up the potato varieties.... I was suggesting this diet to cure IBS, not to lose weight.

Edited May 20, 2013 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I can't believe that's a long term solution for anything.

[tropo]

I can't believe that's a long term solution for anything.

I can see it being an amazing clean out. You think about all the impacted gunk that collects in the digestive tract after years of eating junk.

Clean it out and start afresh. It could work. It certainly didn't seem to do Chris any harm.

Of course we're never going to find out because I doubt anyone else will try it.