Montclair Wine

[xylophone]

Interesting point "GrantSmith", and in my early wine collecting years I used to think that using different glasses to experience different tastes was all pie in the sky, until my French wine merchant friend invited me to a tasting in conjunction with the Riedel company (famous for their different style glasses to suit different wines).

I was amazed at the difference it made when drinking a particular wine from a particular glass and consequently ended up purchasing a range of their glassware so that I could experience the best from my wines!!

As for finding a decent Burgundy here to drink, good luck with that, because the prices will be skyhigh and even when I decided to shell out 2000 baht on one a while ago, it was terribly disappointing.

Yeah I used to be the same too xylophone, until I did a blind tasting using 3 different glasses, one was Riedel another Lucaris and then a run of the mill house wine glass. The difference between the Riedel and the Lucaris were subtly different but worlds apart from the bog standard glass. I was humbled right then and there. I find Lucaris somewhat stronger in construction than Riedel. But I do love the Vitis range by Riedel.

My Bordeaux glass is the best thing ever, holds 700ml - so even the novelty of "one glass is never enough" or the "doctor told me to have at least one glass with dinner" hasn't worn thin yet

But again, was (pleasantly) surprised at the difference it made to a wine that isn't traditionally consumed from such a glass.

That's always the worst feeling when using the old theory that because the price is high it must be good, bit of a kick in the guts so to speak...

xylophone I was just doing some light reading, seems Rhône blends are permitted to have up to 23 blends in them! Imagine whacking that on a label Very interesting % minimums as well... Rather thirsty work this "light" reading

So with that I'm off to locate something different again for tonight's tasting...

!!!!! 23 grape varieties?? Now that is news to me unless of course you are counting those used in both red and white varieties, whereas I was referring to the red wine. Would be interested to learn about this GS......info source?

Loved anecdote re the glass holding 700ml of wine conforming to your Drs advice! No more than 2 glasses a day for me doc.

[emubob]

Saw this last night and made me chuckle. Quite apt with the thread currently discussing glassware!!

[GrantSmith]

!!!!! 23 grape varieties?? Now that is news to me unless of course you are counting those used in both red and white varieties, whereas I was referring to the red wine. Would be interested to learn about this GS......info source?

Loved anecdote re the glass holding 700ml of wine conforming to your Drs advice! No more than 2 glasses a day for me doc.

This article was what kicked me off on the knowledge trail xylophone... I guess it's a bit dated in terms of being from 3 years ago, but haven't been able to find any further info contradicting it. This then led me to Wikipedia *gulp* which gave some further details of the compositions and minimums and maximums - which to be fair to Wikipedia are quite thorough...

In reality in a wholly and solely red Rhône you could probably comprise it - at most - of 12 varietals. But blending it with some white varietals who knows what concoctions you could come up with...

I might stick with the white Rhône tonight, will see what I can dig up...

[xylophone]

!!!!! 23 grape varieties?? Now that is news to me unless of course you are counting those used in both red and white varieties, whereas I was referring to the red wine. Would be interested to learn about this GS......info source?

Loved anecdote re the glass holding 700ml of wine conforming to your Drs advice! No more than 2 glasses a day for me doc.

This article was what kicked me off on the knowledge trail xylophone... I guess it's a bit dated in terms of being from 3 years ago, but haven't been able to find any further info contradicting it. This then led me to Wikipedia *gulp* which gave some further details of the compositions and minimums and maximums - which to be fair to Wikipedia are quite thorough...

In reality in a wholly and solely red Rhône you could probably comprise it - at most - of 12 varietals. But blending it with some white varietals who knows what concoctions you could come up with...

I might stick with the white Rhône tonight, will see what I can dig up...

Aha, mystery solved GS...............my original post was in reference to the grape varieties which can be used in Chateauneuf du Papes red ONLY, not generic Cotes du Rhone!!

Yes there are many more which can be used in the Cotes du Rhone as they include some of the older, almost forgotten/little used grape varieties, Carignan being one which I quite like the flavour of if vinified carefully.

From 1936 until 2009 there were only 13 able to be used in Chateauneuf du Papes (both red and white are/can be mixed in this wine), with that changing, as I recently found out, to 18. In fairness the additional grape varieties are mainly variations on a few already used.

Cotes du Rhone produces a range of wines from the very average to the very good because it covers such a wide area with many grape varieties available, and many vineyards from the excellent Guigal and named Villages Apellations, to the local co-operative.

A few years ago I read that the Cotes du Rhone region alone produces around 40 million cases a year!

[GrantSmith]

 

Aha, mystery solved GS...............my original post was in reference to the grape varieties which can be used in Chateauneuf du Papes red ONLY, not generic Cotes du Rhone!!

 

Yes there are many more which can be used in the Cotes du Rhone as they include some of the older, almost forgotten/little used grape varieties, Carignan being one which I quite like the flavour of if vinified carefully.

 

From 1936 until 2009 there were only 13 able to be used in Chateauneuf du Papes (both red and white are/can be mixed in this wine), with that changing, as I recently found out, to 18. In fairness the additional grape varieties are mainly variations on a few already used.

 

Cotes du Rhone produces a range of wines from the very average to the very good because it covers such a wide area with many grape varieties available, and many vineyards from the excellent Guigal and named Villages Apellations, to the local co-operative.

 

A few years ago I read that the Cotes du Rhone region alone produces around 40 million cases a year!

 

If only the Government here could be so agreeable...

I think I got caught up in the Rhône itself and not the specific AOC...

So I stuck with the white Rhône again tonight, although a different winery.. Not sure on the full makeup as it wasn't given, but Viognier was the majority with Grenache Blanc and Marsanne playing supporting roles..

Similar price range as well..

Mas Des Bressades 2010..

Got it at Tops as by the time we got there it was too late to loiter around town and decided to just 'grab something' on the way home...

Suffice to say at 699 baht this is fairly drinkable for everyday use...

Also got news that Wine Spectator is giving a months free access to their normal subscription stuff in light of their top 100 being released this month...

Flicked through their 2012 list and was rather surprised by their choices...

#3 caught my eye - as it's a winery I'm from a personal point of view connected to - really underrated wine in my opinion but awesome nonetheless...

But, <deleted> me I wouldn't pay that price they've quoted, back home... It's great and it's underrated but definitely not underpriced - according to WS.. Might have to hit up Wine Gallery and see what they're stocking it at..

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[laislica]

So an interesting thing just happened... Well not "interesting" I guess, but, I digress...

Poured a second glass for the wife, but I changed the glass up, switched from a Burgundy glass to a Bordeaux glass.. A lot of conjecture out there on whether or not the glassware alters the taste / experience of the wine... Switching the glassware, really allows the Viognier to shine through in this wine... Everything else takes a back seat and lets the Viognier lead... Delicious...

As for the first time entrant into this thread reading all 356 posts before letting rip, I'll admit I skipped many pages of this thread, attention span and all that hahaha... And as this is in the 'Phuket' sub forum it would normally not gauge my interest, as I'm in Bangkok. But there you go....

But lots of good info in this thread if you can bypass the original premise of this thread

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To be sure!

However, you are contributing a great deal and not letting rip! (I'm sure he knows who I mean)....

In the early posts you will see a number of followers of this thread encouraging posters to give us their knowledge and experiences.

Someone who didn't realise that may think that some posters are being pretentious.

Thanks for your input and everyone else, I am learning every day.

I'm a near Bangkok boy when in Thailand too, currently swanning about in Spain and totally spoiled with cheap and great wines.

I feel for you, I just couldn't spend the amount of money required in Thailand for wine now that the tax has been raised so much.

This is a great thread and has so far had only a small amount of silly or disrespectful posts.

Keep up the good work Guys.

[xylophone]

Quote GS: "So I was feeling a wee bit adventurous tonight, truth be told, I was bat shit bored with the current Australian selections at Tops (closest "reputable" wine store to home) and was feeling like some big bold burgundy......................."

For some reason the word "Burgundy" stuck in my mind and got me thinking about the mouthwatering red Burgundies of my previous life because as I said I have not been able to find much here (although GS may have been referring to the white Burgundies of France).

So with the word Burgundy in my mind, I was taken aback by the 1 L carafe of Paul Masson (USA) "Burgundy" on display at Big C because for a few years now the name Burgundy has been protected from being used by other producers because it is an area specific to France. In addition I doubt whether the Paul Masson wine had much if any in the way of Pinot Noir in it, which is the only grape used in red Burgundy (apart from the allowed addition of a small proportion of Gamay, the Beaujolais grape, in the bottom rung wines produced in the south next to the Beaujolais region).

Perhaps that was old stock as there was no vintage on the label meaning it was a blend of years. I was then even more surprised to find a bottle of the Paul Masson "Chablis" on display, again illegal now I believe outside of France, and very likely did not contain much in the way of Chardonnay, which is the Chablis grape..........more likely some cheaper white varieties.

Don't know if Big C would be putting those out on "special" to get rid of them, and am almost tempted to try the red for the experience......but then again!!

Funny how one word can stick in your mind and lead to all sorts of discoveries!!

[GrantSmith]

You know what grinds my gears xylophone? This American thing of diverging from the rules by slapping "American" in front of it!

There's some nonsense wine out there that plugs itself as an "American Champagne"

And then now this! Utterly ridiculous, in all honesty it makes them look stupid!

I think new world wines are best served by setting themselves apart from their old world brethren, Australia's done it as has NZ and I dared say probably the rest of the new world (I say probably as I'm far from certain this is the case)

That being said, I find US wines overrated and further served up due, in no part, to Robert Parker's affinity with it. But that's not to begrudge him or the overall US wine industry. Just that they - the lesser known - play on it. The same can be said of his Australian equivalent James Halliday...

Anyway, here's to the experience!

Cheers!

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[GrantSmith]

I know it's completely not wine related.. But this, too, REALLY grinds my gears..

Especially the last paragraph...

http://ow.ly/qJqrh

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[NamKangMan]

Does anyone know how much wine a person can carry to Thailand in his (or her) suitcase?

It gets very cold in the hold, how does that affect the quality, especially as it will warm up once landed?

Do some wines fair better than others?

Cheers

By law, 1 bottle..

But it has been known to be a lot more carried through... But legally, 1 bottle...

... Pack it aI've found it travels better in the hold than in the cabinppropriately before you depart i.e styrofoam and you shouldn't have too many problems...

As for affecting the quality, well, to each his own... Get the basics right, and you're more than halfway there...

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"Pack it aI've found it travels better in the hold than in the cabin appropriately before you depart i.e styrofoam and you shouldn't have too many problems." - if you pack it appropriately before you depart, the only way it can travel is in the hold.

The only way you can take alcohol, or any other liquid, into the cabin, is when you buy it at a duty free store, or convenience store, after the security check and prior to departure.

This is because of the 300ml of liquid in your carry-on rule. I've seen many a nice bottle of wine thrown away at the security check, before people became aware.

The buy of glass bottle alcohol, after the security check has always amazed me because you could smash the bottle and use the broken glass as a weapon, yet, they give you plastic knifes and forks to eat with.

[GrantSmith]

 

 

"Pack it aI've found it travels better in the hold than in the cabin appropriately before you depart i.e styrofoam and you shouldn't have too many problems." - if you pack it appropriately before you depart, the only way it can travel is in the hold.

 

The only way you can take alcohol, or any other liquid, into the cabin, is when you buy it at a duty free store, or convenience store, after the security check and prior to departure.

 

This is because of the 300ml of liquid in your carry-on rule.  I've seen many a nice bottle of wine thrown away at the security check, before people became aware.

 

The buy of glass bottle alcohol, after the security check has always amazed me because you could smash the bottle and use the broken glass as a weapon, yet, they give you plastic knifes and forks to eat with.  

 

Good point and provided you're BYO'ing in your carry on this is true...

As for airline cutlery, more and more airlines are relaxing that rule depending on the arrival country and (possibly) cabin you're flying in. But keeping it related to wine - everything's served in glass anyway

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[xylophone]

Felt sorry for a mate of mine from Oz who had brought in a bottle of Jacobs Creek Cabernet Sauvignon, not realising that it was available here, but nevertheless, a nice gesture because he was going to share it with friends.

Didn't wish to be ungrateful, however I found it to be a very average wine, and I believe this brand has gone downhill over the recent past, because in the old days when plain old Jacobs Creek (without the varietal name on the bottle) consisted of a blend of grapes which resulted in a reliable, solid wine with body, I liked it, but this stuff is very, very average.

[NamKangMan]

Felt sorry for a mate of mine from Oz who had brought in a bottle of Jacobs Creek Cabernet Sauvignon, not realising that it was available here, but nevertheless, a nice gesture because he was going to share it with friends.

Didn't wish to be ungrateful, however I found it to be a very average wine, and I believe this brand has gone downhill over the recent past, because in the old days when plain old Jacobs Creek (without the varietal name on the bottle) consisted of a blend of grapes which resulted in a reliable, solid wine with body, I liked it, but this stuff is very, very average.

If a friend of mine bought over from Australia a bottle of Jacobs Creek, I would be ungrateful.

It's not a nice wine and can be bought for around $7AUD (approx 210 baht)

[xylophone]

Felt sorry for a mate of mine from Oz who had brought in a bottle of Jacobs Creek Cabernet Sauvignon, not realising that it was available here, but nevertheless, a nice gesture because he was going to share it with friends.

Didn't wish to be ungrateful, however I found it to be a very average wine, and I believe this brand has gone downhill over the recent past, because in the old days when plain old Jacobs Creek (without the varietal name on the bottle) consisted of a blend of grapes which resulted in a reliable, solid wine with body, I liked it, but this stuff is very, very average.

If a friend of mine bought over from Australia a bottle of Jacobs Creek, I would be ungrateful.

It's not a nice wine and can be bought for around $7AUD (approx 210 baht)

It's the thought that counts!!

Can't complain because he brought in (and had brought in for him) the lovely Velo I mentioned previously as well as the Thorn Clarke blockbuster.

I didn't like the JC but is that price you quoted for the cabernet sauvignon varietal, or the original non-specific blend, if indeed it is still available?

[NamKangMan]

Felt sorry for a mate of mine from Oz who had brought in a bottle of Jacobs Creek Cabernet Sauvignon, not realising that it was available here, but nevertheless, a nice gesture because he was going to share it with friends.

Didn't wish to be ungrateful, however I found it to be a very average wine, and I believe this brand has gone downhill over the recent past, because in the old days when plain old Jacobs Creek (without the varietal name on the bottle) consisted of a blend of grapes which resulted in a reliable, solid wine with body, I liked it, but this stuff is very, very average.

If a friend of mine bought over from Australia a bottle of Jacobs Creek, I would be ungrateful.

It's not a nice wine and can be bought for around $7AUD (approx 210 baht)

It's the thought that counts!!

Can't complain because he brought in (and had brought in for him) the lovely Velo I mentioned previously as well as the Thorn Clarke blockbuster.

I didn't like the JC but is that price you quoted for the cabernet sauvignon varietal, or the original non-specific blend, if indeed it is still available?

Yes, it is the thought that counts.

I internet bank money to friends that are coming over and they buy a nice bottle of wine and bring it over. My "cellar" is running a little low at the moment, as some friends now holiday in Pattaya.

I asked this question a long time ago, and not receive a reply. Can you get wine posted to you here? Has anyone ever tried that? Not a case, just one bottle at a time.

[xylophone]

Felt sorry for a mate of mine from Oz who had brought in a bottle of Jacobs Creek Cabernet Sauvignon, not realising that it was available here, but nevertheless, a nice gesture because he was going to share it with friends.

Didn't wish to be ungrateful, however I found it to be a very average wine, and I believe this brand has gone downhill over the recent past, because in the old days when plain old Jacobs Creek (without the varietal name on the bottle) consisted of a blend of grapes which resulted in a reliable, solid wine with body, I liked it, but this stuff is very, very average.

If a friend of mine bought over from Australia a bottle of Jacobs Creek, I would be ungrateful.

It's not a nice wine and can be bought for around $7AUD (approx 210 baht)

It's the thought that counts!!

Can't complain because he brought in (and had brought in for him) the lovely Velo I mentioned previously as well as the Thorn Clarke blockbuster.

I didn't like the JC but is that price you quoted for the cabernet sauvignon varietal, or the original non-specific blend, if indeed it is still available?

Yes, it is the thought that counts.

I internet bank money to friends that are coming over and they buy a nice bottle of wine and bring it over. My "cellar" is running a little low at the moment, as some friends now holiday in Pattaya.

I asked this question a long time ago, and not receive a reply. Can you get wine posted to you here? Has anyone ever tried that? Not a case, just one bottle at a time.

My wine merchant friend in NZ sends bottles all around the world in polystyrene packs and assured me he could send one to me here in Thailand. I declined because of the uncertainty here with regards to corruption and customs doing what they want to with this sort of parcel.

You could try one and see how it goes, but be prepared to have it "confiscated or lost".

[GrantSmith]

http://www.decanter.com/news/wine-news/584555/french-retailer-price-battle-threatens-champagne-image?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_campaign=hootsuite

Anyone interested in getting in on this action? Image be damned, that's cheap as chips, even if you factor in Import and Excise Duties...

As for getting wine sent from Australia to Thailand, it can be done in a couple of ways.

Easiest way is to find out if the winery exports to Thailand, if they do, chances are they will put you in touch with their distributor here, who may or may not sell it to you at wholesale but should sell it at a RRP if not.

More complicated way is to have it mailed to you, good old fashioned AusPost to Thailand Post to you... I've not had an issue with this method - that's not to say it's 100% fool proof - it's not, but it's the path of least resistance. Do not have it expedited e.g ExpressPost Courier International, it will end up with Customs and you'll have to grease the wheel to get it or you can donate it to the RTP Christmas Party.

Do not have it FedEx'd, DHL'd or TNT'd - same thing as above but there's an extra hand out looking for his cut.

What's the name of the winery?

As for Jacobs Creek, well the less said about it the better, especially their entry level stuff, their more complicated stuff is palatable, but overall I find them overrated and over priced... In the same breath as Hardy's and Penfolds

Tonight I'm drinking the juice of the oldest Mourvèdre vines in the world or so I've been told (168 year old vines) just did a quick read up on it and was shocked at the price it retails for back home, given that the winemaker gave me the bottle. It wasn't tasting that great out of the barrel so I'm praying that some time in the bottle has sorted it out...

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[GrantSmith]

Oh and further to the getting wine sent here, one bottle at a time's going to be expensive for you! So make sure the wine's worth it!

Basically to get a 2 wine pack sent here will cost you about $A70

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[NamKangMan]

Oh and further to the getting wine sent here, one bottle at a time's going to be expensive for you! So make sure the wine's worth it!

Basically to get a 2 wine pack sent here will cost you about $A70

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Thanks for the info in your last two posts.

I think I might organise a trial run getting a bottle posted over.

[xylophone]

Oh and further to the getting wine sent here, one bottle at a time's going to be expensive for you! So make sure the wine's worth it!

Basically to get a 2 wine pack sent here will cost you about $A70

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Thanks for the info in your last two posts.

I think I might organise a trial run getting a bottle posted over.

If you do a trial run, would be interested to know how it goes as may take my wine merchant up on his offer and get a few Burgundies shipped over. Thanks in anticipation.

[xylophone]

Quote GrantSmith: "As for Jacobs Creek, well the less said about it the better, especially their entry level stuff, their more complicated stuff is palatable, but overall I find them overrated and over priced... In the same breath as Hardy's and Penfolds

Tonight I'm drinking the juice of the oldest Mourvèdre vines in the world or so I've been told (168 year old vines) just did a quick read up on it and was shocked at the price it retails for back home, given that the winemaker gave me the bottle. It wasn't tasting that great out of the barrel so I'm praying that some time in the bottle has sorted it out...

That would be an interesting tipple GS, and what did you think of it?

Have never quite come to grips with plain Mourvedre although the Bandol (predominantly Mourvedre) I bought by the case a few years back, with a view of ageing it for a while, was okay, but nothing special, despite the ageing which I thought might take the edge off some of the tannins and allow the wines to "blossom".

Have to agree with you on the Jacobs Creek, however mentioned it because it was something I was given to try a few days ago, and was extremely disappointed. Have never tried the top end wine which I have seen selling for around 1600 baht (I think). And your comment as regards Penfolds was interesting, because I too think the same, apart from a couple of their top end wines (excluding Grange) and I certainly don't think that the likes of Rawson's Retreat has done anything to enhance their reputation.

I think it's about time to seek out a lovely bottle or five as my birthday is looming large and I have one particular Aussie wine in mind, recommended by another poster here so I will seek it out and then all will be revealed.........!

[NamKangMan]

Oh and further to the getting wine sent here, one bottle at a time's going to be expensive for you! So make sure the wine's worth it!

Basically to get a 2 wine pack sent here will cost you about $A70

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for the info in your last two posts.

I think I might organise a trial run getting a bottle posted over.

If you do a trial run, would be interested to know how it goes as may take my wine merchant up on his offer and get a few Burgundies shipped over. Thanks in anticipation.

As mentioned, many times I have organised friends to bring over a nice bottle of wine, but some of them holiday in Pattaya now, so I don't get as much bought over for me these days.

I will trial getting one posted. It will not be an expensive bottle for the first run, and I will need to know the cost of postage to see if it's a viable idea for the future. If it all works out, I might make it a regular delivery.

Will let you know how it goes, but probably will not be for a few weeks.

[NamKangMan]

Quote GrantSmith: "As for Jacobs Creek, well the less said about it the better, especially their entry level stuff, their more complicated stuff is palatable, but overall I find them overrated and over priced... In the same breath as Hardy's and Penfolds

Tonight I'm drinking the juice of the oldest Mourvèdre vines in the world or so I've been told (168 year old vines) just did a quick read up on it and was shocked at the price it retails for back home, given that the winemaker gave me the bottle. It wasn't tasting that great out of the barrel so I'm praying that some time in the bottle has sorted it out...

That would be an interesting tipple GS, and what did you think of it?

Have never quite come to grips with plain Mourvedre although the Bandol (predominantly Mourvedre) I bought by the case a few years back, with a view of ageing it for a while, was okay, but nothing special, despite the ageing which I thought might take the edge off some of the tannins and allow the wines to "blossom".

Have to agree with you on the Jacobs Creek, however mentioned it because it was something I was given to try a few days ago, and was extremely disappointed. Have never tried the top end wine which I have seen selling for around 1600 baht (I think). And your comment as regards Penfolds was interesting, because I too think the same, apart from a couple of their top end wines (excluding Grange) and I certainly don't think that the likes of Rawson's Retreat has done anything to enhance their reputation.

I think it's about time to seek out a lovely bottle or five as my birthday is looming large and I have one particular Aussie wine in mind, recommended by another poster here so I will seek it out and then all will be revealed.........!

When visiting Australia, the Penfolds Bin 389 wasn't too bad. I made it a regular with meals. Give it a try if you get the chance. Agreed, their lower end wines devalue their brand name.

[GrantSmith]

 

That would be an interesting tipple GS, and what did you think of it?

 

Have never quite come to grips with plain Mourvedre although the Bandol (predominantly Mourvedre) I bought by the case a few years back, with a view of ageing it for a while, was okay, but nothing special, despite the ageing which I thought might take the edge off some of the tannins and allow the wines to "blossom".

 

Have to agree with you on the Jacobs Creek, however mentioned it because it was something I was given to try a few days ago, and was extremely disappointed. Have never tried the top end wine which I have seen selling for around 1600 baht (I think). And your comment as regards Penfolds was interesting, because I too think the same, apart from a couple of their top end wines (excluding Grange) and I certainly don't think that the likes of Rawson's Retreat has done anything to enhance their reputation.

 

I think it's about time to seek out a lovely bottle or five as my birthday is looming large and I have one particular Aussie wine in mind, recommended by another poster here so I will seek it out and then all will be revealed.........!

 

 

 

 

 

When visiting Australia, the Penfolds Bin 389 wasn't too bad.  I made it a regular with meals. Give it a try if you get the chance.  Agreed, their lower end wines devalue their brand name.

 

To be honest xylophone, I was really pleasantly surprised by how it performed last night, some really good tannin structure without being overbearing and bullish. A lot of fruit driving the bus. There was though a little bit too much sediment and I hadn't noticed it until it was too late but it didn't kill the taste just earthed it over a bit. Must invest in a decanter to avoid that. Actually, having said that, a decant last night would have really lifted this wine. Hah rookie mistakes and all that. Though given it's price point I should expect nothing less, given that I didn't pay for it, guess I can give an honest opinion of it.

Also, forgot to mention, the other day, wife was drinking a Viognier from Rhône that I'd picked out, from the same winery I'd earlier acquired my initial dabble into white Rhône's... Holy cow! This is some delightful juice!

At 799 baht a pop, I would certainly turn to this puppy for a safe bet! Certainly streets ahead of anything within 500-600 baht of its price range (upward of course) well with the exception being d'Arenburg's Hermit Crab which at 999 baht is still exceptional value.

http://www.vinsdevienne.com/en/html/pdf/amphore_d_argent/TS_amphore_dargent_viognier.pdf

As for Jacob's Creek higher end stuff, can't say I'd go out looking for it.

Penfolds.. Koonunga Hill... Need I say more! Agreed, Grange aside, they do some great wine there, lots to like about it. My problem with them is their price points. I feel that they're really quite arrogant about it. I fear Wolf Blass is going to overtake them in the arrogance stakes though. That being said, given recent events at TWE this might help them change course.. I wouldn't hold my breath though

NamKangMan, shipping's going to be exxy - as I mentioned earlier - maybe look at seeing if the winery exports to HK (not many that don't), Singapore or Malaysia and contacting them to get a bottle sent down/up from there, should reduce the postage.

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[xylophone]

On the subject of Penfold's, in the mid-1990s I started to help the owner of a wine auction business with his knowledge of French wines and things associated with it, including pronunciation (although mine was not brilliant, it was a lot better than his auctioneers!) so I had access to a lot of the wines that would be put up for auction.

Some I would be interested in if the reserve prices were reasonable, others just too unreasonable, and in particular there were the few bottles of Penfold's St Henri which came through from time to time. I had bid for one and got it with very little effort because it seemed as if the other folk were not particularly interested in an "old" wine, as some of these wines were up to 10 years old. However it was absolutely great, so from thereon in (after inspecting the cork and the ullage) I would bid for these wines, or if they did not attract a bid, I would negotiate with the owner, through the auctioneer, afterwards, and very often got the wine for somewhere below reserve price.

I never encountered a bad bottle and managed to snaffle quite a few until the wine seemed to come back into favour in NZ/or wine aficionados got to know about this and the price suddenly shot up.

I haven't tasted one in quite a few years now, but have fond memories of the St Henri................and also of a fantastic bottle of Burgundy from Mdme Leroy which was produced using bio-dynamique techniques and it was one of the best Burgundies I have ever tasted.

Ah the good old days!!!!

[GrantSmith]

Have to agree about wine auctions xylophone, a very good friend of fine swears by the Police / Government Auctions.

Some of the bargains he's collected picked up over the years have been ridiculous, because, as he puts it "even criminals have good taste"...

[NamKangMan]

That would be an interesting tipple GS, and what did you think of it?

Have never quite come to grips with plain Mourvedre although the Bandol (predominantly Mourvedre) I bought by the case a few years back, with a view of ageing it for a while, was okay, but nothing special, despite the ageing which I thought might take the edge off some of the tannins and allow the wines to "blossom".

Have to agree with you on the Jacobs Creek, however mentioned it because it was something I was given to try a few days ago, and was extremely disappointed. Have never tried the top end wine which I have seen selling for around 1600 baht (I think). And your comment as regards Penfolds was interesting, because I too think the same, apart from a couple of their top end wines (excluding Grange) and I certainly don't think that the likes of Rawson's Retreat has done anything to enhance their reputation.

I think it's about time to seek out a lovely bottle or five as my birthday is looming large and I have one particular Aussie wine in mind, recommended by another poster here so I will seek it out and then all will be revealed.........!

When visiting Australia, the Penfolds Bin 389 wasn't too bad. I made it a regular with meals. Give it a try if you get the chance. Agreed, their lower end wines devalue their brand name.

To be honest xylophone, I was really pleasantly surprised by how it performed last night, some really good tannin structure without being overbearing and bullish. A lot of fruit driving the bus. There was though a little bit too much sediment and I hadn't noticed it until it was too late but it didn't kill the taste just earthed it over a bit. Must invest in a decanter to avoid that. Actually, having said that, a decant last night would have really lifted this wine. Hah rookie mistakes and all that. Though given it's price point I should expect nothing less, given that I didn't pay for it, guess I can give an honest opinion of it.

Also, forgot to mention, the other day, wife was drinking a Viognier from Rhône that I'd picked out, from the same winery I'd earlier acquired my initial dabble into white Rhône's... Holy cow! This is some delightful juice!

At 799 baht a pop, I would certainly turn to this puppy for a safe bet! Certainly streets ahead of anything within 500-600 baht of its price range (upward of course) well with the exception being d'Arenburg's Hermit Crab which at 999 baht is still exceptional value.

http://www.vinsdevienne.com/en/html/pdf/amphore_d_argent/TS_amphore_dargent_viognier.pdf

As for Jacob's Creek higher end stuff, can't say I'd go out looking for it.

Penfolds.. Koonunga Hill... Need I say more! Agreed, Grange aside, they do some great wine there, lots to like about it. My problem with them is their price points. I feel that they're really quite arrogant about it. I fear Wolf Blass is going to overtake them in the arrogance stakes though. That being said, given recent events at TWE this might help them change course.. I wouldn't hold my breath though

NamKangMan, shipping's going to be exxy - as I mentioned earlier - maybe look at seeing if the winery exports to HK (not many that don't), Singapore or Malaysia and contacting them to get a bottle sent down/up from there, should reduce the postage.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have friends in the UK and in Australia. I will see which post is the cheapest. The problem will be, to make posting it viable, for the price, it will have to be a decent bottle of wine, then, you run the risk of it being stolen/intercepted by customs.

I'll do a trial run, with a cheap bottle of wine, and will accept a loss on the postage to see if it works out.

I'll report in a few weeks if the wine made it over to me.

[xylophone]

Quote NKM: "When visiting Australia, the Penfolds Bin 389 wasn't too bad. I made it a regular with meals. Give it a try if you get the chance. Agreed, their lower end wines devalue their brand name".

I have tried it on a couple of occasions and thought it was very good, however have not seen it around here – – if you have, any idea of the price?

And one here for "GrantSmith"..........I have found my tastes changing over the years and although I was a fan of the Syrah grape mostly because of the excellent wines I tried from Cote Rotie and Hermitage (both with some age on them) I was also very taken with some of the older Bordeaux wines I had kept in my cellar, so also had a leaning towards the Cabernet Sauvignon grape which was predominant in these wines.

On moving to NZ, I was very taken with some of the Aussie Shiraz wines, although over the years, IMO the quality of some of these has fallen quite markedly, and I know that some of this could well have been due to the Australian government's "vine pull" program which resulted in a lot of the older Shiraz vines being pulled up, however I think a lot of it has to do with winemaking in general.

True there are some excellent Shiraz wines around, but in the main these tend to be quite huge and the better ones made by the "boutique type producers" are hard to find.

So I have tasted a few Cabernet Sauvignon wines over the past few years and have been quite taken with the elegance of some of them, along with some lovely fruit flavours, and with the older ones, notes of blackcurrant, cedar and cigar box. BUT, where to find these type of wines here, and what would you recommend?

I do remember some excellent Leuwin Estate Cabernet Sauvignon wines from the 80s when it was in its heyday, but have never tried any recent ones.

Your wide-ranging knowledge on the subject would be much welcomed.

[GrantSmith]

Quote NKM: "When visiting Australia, the Penfolds Bin 389 wasn't too bad. I made it a regular with meals. Give it a try if you get the chance. Agreed, their lower end wines devalue their brand name".

I have tried it on a couple of occasions and thought it was very good, however have not seen it around here – – if you have, any idea of the price?

And one here for "GrantSmith"..........I have found my tastes changing over the years and although I was a fan of the Syrah grape mostly because of the excellent wines I tried from Cote Rotie and Hermitage (both with some age on them) I was also very taken with some of the older Bordeaux wines I had kept in my cellar, so also had a leaning towards the Cabernet Sauvignon grape which was predominant in these wines.

On moving to NZ, I was very taken with some of the Aussie Shiraz wines, although over the years, IMO the quality of some of these has fallen quite markedly, and I know that some of this could well have been due to the Australian government's "vine pull" program which resulted in a lot of the older Shiraz vines being pulled up, however I think a lot of it has to do with winemaking in general.

True there are some excellent Shiraz wines around, but in the main these tend to be quite huge and the better ones made by the "boutique type producers" are hard to find.

So I have tasted a few Cabernet Sauvignon wines over the past few years and have been quite taken with the elegance of some of them, along with some lovely fruit flavours, and with the older ones, notes of blackcurrant, cedar and cigar box. BUT, where to find these type of wines here, and what would you recommend?

I do remember some excellent Leuwin Estate Cabernet Sauvignon wines from the 80s when it was in its heyday, but have never tried any recent ones.

Your wide-ranging knowledge on the subject would be much welcomed.

Apologies xylophone for not replying earlier!

Shiraz, along with Chardy, have been Australia's bread and butter since before I started drinking them...

I'm of the opinion and I don't have any scientific evidence to prove my point, but I will say that I feel that it has a lot to do with climate change, world getting warmer and all that... We're seeing a lot of cool climate shiraz coming into its own lately.

A number of cool climate shiraz have taken out the gongs at the various wine shows and even Pinot Noir took home the last gong of the show circuit for this year in Australia.

Cab Sauv's are probably heading in the same direction as their Shiraz brethren, cool climate. Allowing for the fruit to do the work and not the alcohol, which is where the traditional Cab Sauv's and Shiraz were being noted. Barrossa Valley *shuddders*

Coonawarra Cab Sauv's continue, in my opinion, to be safe bets - Taylor's (available in Villa Market priced around 1,300+ IIRC) is my pick of the bunch, I would say quintessential Coonawarra Cab Sauv.

d'Arenburg's "Coppermine Road" is also a delicious example of what McLaren Vale can do.

Again the cooler climate regions of the Adelaide Hills are producing some very fruit driven and intense Cab Sauv's as well.

I find Leeuwin Estate to be severly overrated and overpriced, even moreso here in Thailand (but that's no surprise), I did a blind tasting back in May, picked it out straight away, tobacco and leather AND lots of it.

It retails in Australia for around $55 which I believe is ridiculous. Their Chardonnay and Riesling are more reasonably priced but still overrated as far as the juice itself goes.

The oenophiles out there are saying Margaret River is going to be taking over the world, I don't believe it for a second, yes there are some excellent wines coming out of the region - Vassé Felix is my favourite if I ever feel the need to venture that way - but they're really a long way behind South Australia, and I'm not even South Australian

Tasmania's going to be hard pressed to get away from it being only known for its Pinot Noir - much the same as NZ with Central Otago.

[eezergood]

Redhouse has a stunning Italian shiraz, just to further prove your point........