Montclair Wine

[GrantSmith]

Sticking with Shiraz, here's a fascinating read from the winemaker of one of Australia's best Shiraz producers Mt Langi Ghiran...

https://eview.anu.edu.au/wine-symposium/pdf/ch12.pdf

Makes me want to crack open a bottle of Shiraz... This, however, will be of course frowned upon by "she who must be obeyed"

[WhoWhenWhyWhat]

If anyone have the opportunity to visit Vietnam, do not miss their locally produced wine the Da Lat Red.

Surprisingly good, IMHO.

Salut

[xylophone]

Sticking with Shiraz, here's a fascinating read from the winemaker of one of Australia's best Shiraz producers Mt Langi Ghiran...

https://eview.anu.edu.au/wine-symposium/pdf/ch12.pdf

Makes me want to crack open a bottle of Shiraz... This, however, will be of course frowned upon by "she who must be obeyed"

Thanks for that GS, it makes interesting reading and throws yet another "light" on the origins of the word Shiraz, and I'll buy this one as well because it seems very plausible.

He makes an interesting point as regards the Syrah from the Rhone (Northern Rhône mostly) and being blended with the Bordelaise wines, but as he alluded to, this was a practice which was frowned upon because it gave the sometimes weaker Bordelaise wines a bit of backbone in poor vintages, and it wasn't supposed to go anywhere near those wines or that region!!!

What wasn't mentioned, and is probably worth a mention is that around the turn of the 19th century the Syrah wines from the northern Rhône, Hermitage in particular, had been discovered in the UK and the wines were very much liked and in some instances fetched more per bottle than the top-flight Bordeaux wines! For some reason this short lived love affair with Hermitage wines fell away and has only been "resurrected" over the past 40 years or so.

[WhoWhenWhyWhat]

Hopefully, no one minds if I digress a bit now with a trivia.

Why do we 'clinked' or shall I say clicked, our glasses when we drink wines with company?

[GrantSmith]

Hopefully, no one minds if I digress a bit now with a trivia.

Why do we 'clinked' or shall I say clicked, our glasses when we drink wines with company?

Here's as good an explanation as any... Taking out any myths or superstitions...

"'Toasting' our term for the pronouncement of benedictions followed by a swallowing of alcohol, is believed to have taken its name from a practice involving a shared drinking vessel. Floated in the "loving cup" passed among celebrants in Britain was a piece of (spiced) cooked bread that the host would consume along with the last few drops of liquid after the cup had made one round of the company. In modern times toasting has become a matter of imbibing from individual drinking vessels rather than from one shared flagon, so to compensate for the sense of unity lost in doing away with the sharing of the same cup we have evolved the practice of simultaneously drinking each from our own glass when a toast is made, thereby maintaining a communal connection to the kind words being spoken.

The clinking of glasses has been added to the practice of offering toasts for a few reasons, none having anything to do with poison. Prior to such augmentation, toasts pleased only four of the five senses; by adding the "clink," a pleasant sound was made part of the experience, and wine glasses have come to be prized not only for their appearance but also for the tones they produce when struck. Yet beyond mere aural pleasure, the act of touching your glass to that of others is a way of emphasizing that you are part of the good wishes being expressed, that you are making a physical connection to the toast. The practice also serves another purpose, that of uniting the individuals taking part in the benediction into a cohesive group: as the wine glasses are brought together, so symbolically are the people holding them. On a deeper level, the wine is also being recommuned with itself — that which had been one (when it had been in its own bottle) but was separated (when it was poured into a variety of glasses) is brought back into contact with the whole of itself, if only for a moment.

Etiquette mavens say one need not clink glasses with everyone present when participating in toasts among large assemblies. Rather than reach across vast expanses of wide tables (thereby risking losing your balance and ending up in the guacamole), simply raise your glass and make eye contact with the group. "

- Barbara "avocados and don'ts" Mikkelson

[topt]

Hopefully, no one minds if I digress a bit now with a trivia.

Why do we 'clinked' or shall I say clicked, our glasses when we drink wines with company?

It is clink not click

My understanding is that it is not proven but that some suggest it was to do with worry that wine was poisoned back in Greek/Roman times and clinking the glasses together would make any poison also go into the others glass - you would have to really overfill or clink bloody hard however

Edit - I see GS just beat me to it.....

Edited June 11, 2015 by topt

[GrantSmith]

Hopefully, no one minds if I digress a bit now with a trivia.

Why do we 'clinked' or shall I say clicked, our glasses when we drink wines with company?

It is clink not click

My understanding is that it is not proven but that some suggest it was to do with worry that wine was poisoned back in Greek/Roman times and clinking the glasses together would make any poison also go into the others glass - you would have to really overfill or clink bloody hard however

Edit - I see GS just beat me to it.....

Given the over dramatisation of said times by Hollywood, it probably wasn't too hard to see why this myth had legs...

That being said, I was brought up that during those ancient times they always "had a guy" for that - testing the food/wine for poison...

[balo]

I am looking for real, inexpensive red wine i Thailand. Clearly Montclair does not fit that category. Big C or makro , any suggestions ?

[xylophone]

I am looking for real, inexpensive red wine i Thailand. Clearly Montclair does not fit that category. Big C or makro , any suggestions ?

IMO the best value in Big C at the moment is "Barwang" Shiraz or Cab Sauvignon (from Oz) at 529 baht pb, or there is a Chilean wine (Caminos?) at just under 500 baht.

They also have "Gossips" (red from Oz again) at 514 baht and I believe this is from the Riverina area, an area that produces a lot of drinkable every day wines, but nothing to wax lyrical about.

Not a frequent visitor to Makro so can't help there I'm afraid.

[xylophone]

I am looking for real, inexpensive red wine i Thailand. Clearly Montclair does not fit that category. Big C or makro , any suggestions ?

I have just come back from Villa Market and they have a few specials on that may interest you...........

Copperstone Shiraz; Cedar Creek (not the one with added fruit juice) Shiraz/Cab Sauvignon and Brookford Shiraz, all at 395 baht a bottle.

They come from S/E Australia in the Riverina area and could be good everyday wines. Just every so often one can get a wine from here which surprises!!

[GrantSmith]

Not even remotely related to Montclair nor wine consumption in Thailand.. But I digress...

Jail wine... But not as you know it... This wine sells for €80 a bottle so it must be pretty damn good.. All made with prison labor.. Someone's making a killing here!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11690308/Italys-answer-to-Alcatraz-the-island-vineyard-where-inmates-are-taught-the-secrets-of-winemaking.html

[topt]

Not even remotely related to Montclair nor wine consumption in Thailand.. But I digress...

Jail wine... But not as you know it... This wine sells for €80 a bottle so it must be pretty damn good.. All made with prison labor.. Someone's making a killing here!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11690308/Italys-answer-to-Alcatraz-the-island-vineyard-where-inmates-are-taught-the-secrets-of-winemaking.html

Thanks for the link GS - interesting.

I wonder if that is retail or wholesale price as when you factor in the other figures given in the article not so much left (ignoring your pun ). Not sure I believe they pay the workers as much as they say as it seems quite generous - wonder if they pay taxes......

[xylophone]

Thanks for the info GS and now something for you.............

I recently acquired six bottles of Heritage Wines Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 by Steve Hoff and decided to try one a couple of days ago. Now my "favourite" wine for many years has been Syrah/Shiraz, especially those from the northern Rhône (Cote Rotie and Hermitage) although I've had some excellent ones from Australia (including Grange) but every so often a Cabernet Sauvignon comes along which tempts me to change my mind on this one certainly has.

I think it's at its peak now, dark and seemingly brooding, however the tannins are soft and extremely approachable. The nose is of dark fruits, raisins and figs and this follows through to the palate with perhaps a hint of dried blueberries thrown into the mix, and the finish is just perfect.

This would have to be one of the best Cabernet Sauvignons I have ever tasted and I was enthralled by it, ranking up there with anything I've ever tasted, Grand Cru Bordeaux included.

So my question is, what is your opinion of this particular wine if you have tasted it and I would love to get hold of some more because it is quite superb?

[GrantSmith]

Thanks for the info GS and now something for you.............

I recently acquired six bottles of Heritage Wines Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 by Steve Hoff and decided to try one a couple of days ago. Now my "favourite" wine for many years has been Syrah/Shiraz, especially those from the northern Rhône (Cote Rotie and Hermitage) although I've had some excellent ones from Australia (including Grange) but every so often a Cabernet Sauvignon comes along which tempts me to change my mind on this one certainly has.

I think it's at its peak now, dark and seemingly brooding, however the tannins are soft and extremely approachable. The nose is of dark fruits, raisins and figs and this follows through to the palate with perhaps a hint of dried blueberries thrown into the mix, and the finish is just perfect.

This would have to be one of the best Cabernet Sauvignons I have ever tasted and I was enthralled by it, ranking up there with anything I've ever tasted, Grand Cru Bordeaux included.

So my question is, what is your opinion of this particular wine if you have tasted it and I would love to get hold of some more because it is quite superb?

I can't say I've come across any Heritage wines in my travels, so I can't comment specifically to that wine.

I'd say crack another one and see if it lives up to your previous expectations.

Being an '08 it should be hitting its straps now but looking around the traps it doesn't appear to have been a wine made to stick around copping a 79 a few years ago by one of Halliday's tasters (Ben Edwards, former Sommelier's Australia President)

Visually this wine wouldn't interest me (had a poke around to see what's what and I'm very much an advocate for a complete design package when it comes to wine) but sounds like it'd be one that would do everyone over in a blind tasting.

I believe Wine Gallery carries it, not sure if they've got a shop in Phuket like they do up here in Bangkok...

I always look forward to having my own second opinion when I have an absolute cracking wine for the first time, like a kid in a candy store. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's the beauty (and sometimes the beast) of it...

[xylophone]

Thanks for the info GS and now something for you.............

I recently acquired six bottles of Heritage Wines Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 by Steve Hoff and decided to try one a couple of days ago. Now my "favourite" wine for many years has been Syrah/Shiraz, especially those from the northern Rhône (Cote Rotie and Hermitage) although I've had some excellent ones from Australia (including Grange) but every so often a Cabernet Sauvignon comes along which tempts me to change my mind on this one certainly has.

I think it's at its peak now, dark and seemingly brooding, however the tannins are soft and extremely approachable. The nose is of dark fruits, raisins and figs and this follows through to the palate with perhaps a hint of dried blueberries thrown into the mix, and the finish is just perfect.

This would have to be one of the best Cabernet Sauvignons I have ever tasted and I was enthralled by it, ranking up there with anything I've ever tasted, Grand Cru Bordeaux included.

So my question is, what is your opinion of this particular wine if you have tasted it and I would love to get hold of some more because it is quite superb?

I can't say I've come across any Heritage wines in my travels, so I can't comment specifically to that wine.

I'd say crack another one and see if it lives up to your previous expectations.

Being an '08 it should be hitting its straps now but looking around the traps it doesn't appear to have been a wine made to stick around copping a 79 a few years ago by one of Halliday's tasters (Ben Edwards, former Sommelier's Australia President)

Visually this wine wouldn't interest me (had a poke around to see what's what and I'm very much an advocate for a complete design package when it comes to wine) but sounds like it'd be one that would do everyone over in a blind tasting.

I believe Wine Gallery carries it, not sure if they've got a shop in Phuket like they do up here in Bangkok...

I always look forward to having my own second opinion when I have an absolute cracking wine for the first time, like a kid in a candy store. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's the beauty (and sometimes the beast) of it...

Tasted a second bottle and it was just as good as the first, although I do know what you mean about getting a "second opinion" by tasting another bottle, because so many things can influence the enjoyment/appreciation of the wine, notwithstanding bottle variation which does occur (unfortunately).

I don't know how this wine scored a 79, because other information I have been able to find about this wine gives it scores of between 89 and 92 and I would certainly put it up there amongst some of the best.

There used to be a shop called Wine Gallery here in Tesco Lotus, but it has since gone and I haven't been able to find anything about it on the Internet, although I will do another search.

I have tasted another one of the Heritage wines, the Rossco's Shiraz, and the winemakers notes are as follows.......

"In years when our Shiraz wine is of exceptional quality, we release our flagship wine, Rossco's Shiraz.

This wine is pure Barossa Shiraz, big, full, flavoursome. The palate has firm tannins and good oak flavour. The Rossco's is a wine to cellar for at least 10 years and a great example of Barossa Shiraz.

Acclaimed writer for The Age, the late Mark Shield, once described Rossco's Shiraz as 'The Brother of Grange'! Mentioned in The Age by Jane Faulkner "Rossco's is affordable and a beaut example of a bold Barossa style', and the Gourmet Traveller Magazine in 2003 praising both Steve and the Rossco's Shiraz".

[xylophone]

Had a stroke of luck yesterday when visiting a very large store here in Phuket, to find that they had a sale on of a couple of Aussie wines, "Hardys" and "Tempus Two" at 147 baht per bottle although I thought with its recent clear out, there wouldn't be much of this type of thing left, however let's hope it continues.........at this price it's even cheaper than Montclair!!!!!

Also notice that in Big C, prices on a few of the wines have dropped, mainly those on Taylors Promised Land and Barwang Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon, making the latter at around 480 baht a bottle, a pretty good price for an everyday drinker.

[xylophone]

Following on from my previous posts regarding reduced prices for some wines at Big C, today I noticed that they are back to where they were, so that was short lived..............seems like it's the "quick and the dead" until the next time they have a real clear out and drop the wine prices quite markedly, which they have done in the past, but they don't announce it, just surreptitiously reduce the prices until the wine has gone.

[topt]

Following on from my previous posts regarding reduced prices for some wines at Big C, today I noticed that they are back to where they were, so that was short lived..............seems like it's the "quick and the dead" until the next time they have a real clear out and drop the wine prices quite markedly, which they have done in the past, but they don't announce it, just surreptitiously reduce the prices until the wine has gone.

I noticed this also today in Big C Extra Pattaya. Did your store also have an Aussie wine I had not seen before - Grant Burge (or similar name), Cabernet Shiraz 2015 at 599 baht?

[xylophone]

Following on from my previous posts regarding reduced prices for some wines at Big C, today I noticed that they are back to where they were, so that was short lived..............seems like it's the "quick and the dead" until the next time they have a real clear out and drop the wine prices quite markedly, which they have done in the past, but they don't announce it, just surreptitiously reduce the prices until the wine has gone.

I noticed this also today in Big C Extra Pattaya. Did your store also have an Aussie wine I had not seen before - Grant Burge (or similar name), Cabernet Shiraz 2015 at 599 baht?

Hi "topt", I have noticed that at Villa Market and I think it is in my local Big C store......must look more closely.

I have tried it before and it is "ok" but doesn't seem to have much "depth" to it with regards to tannin and fruit, but maybe that's just me!!

[GrantSmith]

Depending which GB range it was, for that price I would imagine it is the 'Benchmark' range? I've never really a fan of it that range, very 'weak' across the line.

The 'Vineyard' series on the other hand, great line up with a lot more character about them, the Miamba Shiraz was always a strong performer.

Once you get to the Meshach Shiraz (their best wine) you're starting to mean business.

[topt]

Depending which GB range it was, for that price I would imagine it is the 'Benchmark' range? I've never really a fan of it that range, very 'weak' across the line.

The 'Vineyard' series on the other hand, great line up with a lot more character about them, the Miamba Shiraz was always a strong performer.

Once you get to the Meshach Shiraz (their best wine) you're starting to mean business.

Thanks yes I think it was Benchmark and your comments match xylophone's. Doubt we will see the others you mention in Big C any time soon.....

[xylophone]

Depending which GB range it was, for that price I would imagine it is the 'Benchmark' range? I've never really a fan of it that range, very 'weak' across the line.

The 'Vineyard' series on the other hand, great line up with a lot more character about them, the Miamba Shiraz was always a strong performer.

Once you get to the Meshach Shiraz (their best wine) you're starting to mean business.

Thanks yes I think it was Benchmark and your comments match xylophone's. Doubt we will see the others you mention in Big C any time soon.....

You make a good point topt, this with regards to seeing other good wines on the shelves of the likes of Big C being unlikely, mainly because I thought that the supermarkets were tending to go downhill with their range of wines, and you've only got to look at the selection available now in Tesco Lotus to see that they are absolutely chock-a-block with Montclair style fruit wines, and I thought this was the case with Big C.

It is true that Big C stock just about every one of these fruit wine products, from Australia, Thailand, Italy, France, the USA and so on and I thought they would continue to go down this route, yet I noticed they have a shelf full of a very expensive Bordeaux wine – – actually it is a 5th Growth Bordeaux, Chateau Camensac, and it is retailing for over 3000 baht a bottle, so whatever possessed them to suddenly stock this is quite beyond me!

If you were into your Bordeaux wines, then I very much doubt that you would take a chance with something that expensive, with it being stored upright (and for who knows how long) and with no idea of the temperature in which it was stored prior to being displayed on the shelves, and as if to add insult to injury, we all know the difficulties with returning wines which have "gone off" here in Thailand, because Thais have no concept of this.

I have also noticed a Chianti Classico Riserva on the shelves at about 850 baht a bottle, however that would be a good price for wines such as this and I think it is from Pasqua, so it should be.

Back to the point.......I don't know what the wine buyer at Big C is playing at, however I'm all for a better range of products, and when they don't sell, I'm all for picking them up at bargain prices!!!!

[srexpat]

I'm confused, could one of the wine guys explain this?

I got a bottle of "Chasing clouds, reserve red, bin 2" from villa. It was I think 400-500 baht. I assumed this was a table red, but now I found it is some "fruit wine".

The description on the back states "Our chasing clouds range is inspired by the elevation of our vineyard in NSW. We have selected a blend of cabernet sauvignon and Merlow with fruit juice which displays rich, ripe plums and berry fruits. We recommend a match with red meats and curries"

It says "Fruit Wine product" down in the small print.

I must not have been paying attention because I was in the Australian Wine section and I just kind of randomly go with what looks nice and price. I haven't drank wine that often in the past but am interested in increasing its ration in my drinking rotation.

Now I'm concerned that I'm drinking some ethanol + fruit juice junk that is bad for my health? Is this the case? Or is it mostly cab and merlot and a splash of fruit juice to avoid taxes? I only realized it was fruitjuice after trying to look up the bottle online and finding it only mentioned in this thread (literally not anywhere online including the cumulous winery). I'm halfway through the bottle but am dreading some chinese style ethanol garbage headache in the morning...

[topt]

I'm confused, could one of the wine guys explain this? I got a bottle of "Chasing clouds, reserve red, bin 2" from villa. It was I think 400-500 baht. I assumed this was a table red, but now I found it is some "fruit wine". The description on the back states "Our chasing clouds range is inspired by the elevation of our vineyard in NSW. We have selected a blend of cabernet sauvignon and Merlow with fruit juice which displays rich, ripe plums and berry fruits. We recommend a match with red meats and curries" It says "Fruit Wine product" down in the small print. I must not have been paying attention because I was in the Australian Wine section and I just kind of randomly go with what looks nice and price. I haven't drank wine that often in the past but am interested in increasing its ration in my drinking rotation. Now I'm concerned that I'm drinking some ethanol + fruit juice junk that is bad for my health? Is this the case? Or is it mostly cab and merlot and a splash of fruit juice to avoid taxes? I only realized it was fruitjuice after trying to look up the bottle online and finding it only mentioned in this thread (literally not anywhere online including the cumulous winery). I'm halfway through the bottle but am dreading some chinese style ethanol garbage headache in the morning...

As you noticed basically it is a bottle of wine with fruit juice added like Montclaiir and many, many others - although dear at 500 baht. If you like it then no problem but it shouldn't have any more deleterious effects then any other similar wines.

Let us know tomorrow after you have finished the bottle - oh and was its taste description accurate?

At that sort of price (plus a bit) you may want to try something like Barwang or Taras.

[grumpyoldman]

I'm confused, could one of the wine guys explain this? I got a bottle of "Chasing clouds, reserve red, bin 2" from villa. It was I think 400-500 baht. I assumed this was a table red, but now I found it is some "fruit wine". The description on the back states "Our chasing clouds range is inspired by the elevation of our vineyard in NSW. We have selected a blend of cabernet sauvignon and Merlow with fruit juice which displays rich, ripe plums and berry fruits. We recommend a match with red meats and curries" It says "Fruit Wine product" down in the small print. I must not have been paying attention because I was in the Australian Wine section and I just kind of randomly go with what looks nice and price. I haven't drank wine that often in the past but am interested in increasing its ration in my drinking rotation. Now I'm concerned that I'm drinking some ethanol + fruit juice junk that is bad for my health? Is this the case? Or is it mostly cab and merlot and a splash of fruit juice to avoid taxes? I only realized it was fruitjuice after trying to look up the bottle online and finding it only mentioned in this thread (literally not anywhere online including the cumulous winery). I'm halfway through the bottle but am dreading some chinese style ethanol garbage headache in the morning...

As you noticed basically it is a bottle of wine with fruit juice added like Montclaiir and many, many others - although dear at 500 baht. If you like it then no problem but it shouldn't have any more deleterious effects then any other similar wines.

Let us know tomorrow after you have finished the bottle - oh and was its taste description accurate?

At that sort of price (plus a bit) you may want to try something like Barwang or Taras.

Well, at least it didn't say "Reserva" on the label. One of the local companies with a horrendously acidic fruit wine has the nerve to call it a reserve......

[xylophone]

I'm confused, could one of the wine guys explain this? I got a bottle of "Chasing clouds, reserve red, bin 2" from villa. It was I think 400-500 baht. I assumed this was a table red, but now I found it is some "fruit wine". The description on the back states "Our chasing clouds range is inspired by the elevation of our vineyard in NSW. We have selected a blend of cabernet sauvignon and Merlow with fruit juice which displays rich, ripe plums and berry fruits. We recommend a match with red meats and curries" It says "Fruit Wine product" down in the small print. I must not have been paying attention because I was in the Australian Wine section and I just kind of randomly go with what looks nice and price. I haven't drank wine that often in the past but am interested in increasing its ration in my drinking rotation. Now I'm concerned that I'm drinking some ethanol + fruit juice junk that is bad for my health? Is this the case? Or is it mostly cab and merlot and a splash of fruit juice to avoid taxes? I only realized it was fruitjuice after trying to look up the bottle online and finding it only mentioned in this thread (literally not anywhere online including the cumulous winery). I'm halfway through the bottle but am dreading some chinese style ethanol garbage headache in the morning...

As you noticed basically it is a bottle of wine with fruit juice added like Montclaiir and many, many others - although dear at 500 baht. If you like it then no problem but it shouldn't have any more deleterious effects then any other similar wines.

Let us know tomorrow after you have finished the bottle - oh and was its taste description accurate?

At that sort of price (plus a bit) you may want to try something like Barwang or Taras.

Agree with 'topt" about the price of this wine and also agree that the Barwang and Taras could well be a better option for you.

I personally find the fruit wines do give me a bit of a headache, but I have been unable to find out why, but if they don't and you like them, then go ahead and drink them, after all it is your choice.

There has been much written on this subject here and if my memory serves me correct it was "pretty well established" that up to 20% of the finished product could be fruit juice, and I'm sure that I've seen figures of around 15% used in some articles I have read.

I did write to a couple of the wineries and asked them exactly how the process was carried out and whether the fruit juice was added to the grape juice and then fermented together, or whether it was added after the initial fermentation of the grapes, but no response. On that subject, some of these fruit wines are 13 to 13.5% alcohol and if the fruit juice was added after initial grape fermentation then that would surely bring the final alcohol content down, so that would not appear to be the case – – fermented together perhaps?

Another poster, Grant Smith, is the expert on taxes/duty/etc however there seems to be some "confusion" as do quite how the excise tax/duty/whatever is applied in Thailand (not surprising really) and if there is a loophole, then certainly many producers of fruit wine have found it, and it does come from countries such as the USA, South Africa, Australia, France, Italy, South America and even from Vietnam, where apparently the grape juice is imported and fermented with fruit juice in Vietnam then shipped to be sold through the Wine Connection stores.

So how was the head after consuming the wine?

[norfolkandchance]

GiantFan. Congrats. Best thread onTV

I spend 8 years in Saudi. Every month down to the local supermarket. Loaded up with grape juice,sugar and yeast (all stacked next to each other). Mixed it all up. 4 weeks later drinkable. Tasted a lot better then some of the stuff i've had in LO

Down in Southern Italy i get 5 liters of excellent red. 15 % for 7 euros.

Keep up the good work

[GrantSmith]

I'm confused, could one of the wine guys explain this? I got a bottle of "Chasing clouds, reserve red, bin 2" from villa. It was I think 400-500 baht. I assumed this was a table red, but now I found it is some "fruit wine". The description on the back states "Our chasing clouds range is inspired by the elevation of our vineyard in NSW. We have selected a blend of cabernet sauvignon and Merlow with fruit juice which displays rich, ripe plums and berry fruits. We recommend a match with red meats and curries" It says "Fruit Wine product" down in the small print. I must not have been paying attention because I was in the Australian Wine section and I just kind of randomly go with what looks nice and price. I haven't drank wine that often in the past but am interested in increasing its ration in my drinking rotation. Now I'm concerned that I'm drinking some ethanol + fruit juice junk that is bad for my health? Is this the case? Or is it mostly cab and merlot and a splash of fruit juice to avoid taxes? I only realized it was fruitjuice after trying to look up the bottle online and finding it only mentioned in this thread (literally not anywhere online including the cumulous winery). I'm halfway through the bottle but am dreading some chinese style ethanol garbage headache in the morning...

As you noticed basically it is a bottle of wine with fruit juice added like Montclaiir and many, many others - although dear at 500 baht. If you like it then no problem but it shouldn't have any more deleterious effects then any other similar wines.

Let us know tomorrow after you have finished the bottle - oh and was its taste description accurate?

At that sort of price (plus a bit) you may want to try something like Barwang or Taras.

Agree with 'topt" about the price of this wine and also agree that the Barwang and Taras could well be a better option for you.

I personally find the fruit wines do give me a bit of a headache, but I have been unable to find out why, but if they don't and you like them, then go ahead and drink them, after all it is your choice.

There has been much written on this subject here and if my memory serves me correct it was "pretty well established" that up to 20% of the finished product could be fruit juice, and I'm sure that I've seen figures of around 15% used in some articles I have read.

I did write to a couple of the wineries and asked them exactly how the process was carried out and whether the fruit juice was added to the grape juice and then fermented together, or whether it was added after the initial fermentation of the grapes, but no response. On that subject, some of these fruit wines are 13 to 13.5% alcohol and if the fruit juice was added after initial grape fermentation then that would surely bring the final alcohol content down, so that would not appear to be the case – – fermented together perhaps?

Another poster, Grant Smith, is the expert on taxes/duty/etc however there seems to be some "confusion" as do quite how the excise tax/duty/whatever is applied in Thailand (not surprising really) and if there is a loophole, then certainly many producers of fruit wine have found it, and it does come from countries such as the USA, South Africa, Australia, France, Italy, South America and even from Vietnam, where apparently the grape juice is imported and fermented with fruit juice in Vietnam then shipped to be sold through the Wine Connection stores.

So how was the head after consuming the wine?

฿500 for a fruit wine? Jesus wept... As others have said, for that, you could go as low as Jacob's Creek but as Khun topt & xylophone have said Barwang is bang for your buck.

The headache you'll potentially get is from the Sulphur that is "likely" added to the product as a preservative. I say likely as unless you hear it straight from the horses mouth you'll always be guessing. You're not likely to suffer any other life threatening complications, certainly nothing like the Austrian "Anti-freeze" fiasco. But there are a few importers crying that it will only be a matter of time before these fruit wines do some serious damage due to contamination somewhere along the supply chain and destroy the Australian wine industry. Pure scaremongering IMHO.

Unfortunately these fruit wines are popular among many 5 star hotels here as house pour wines due to their price point, this is extremely frustrating as it gives a false impression of the actual market.

Taxation? Oy vey.. But given the recent spike in pricing of these wines it could be safe to say that they're not getting any relief by doing it the way they are.

[topt]

Agree with 'topt" about the price of this wine and also agree that the Barwang and Taras could well be a better option for you.

I personally find the fruit wines do give me a bit of a headache, but I have been unable to find out why, but if they don't and you like them, then go ahead and drink them, after all it is your choice.

There has been much written on this subject here and if my memory serves me correct it was "pretty well established" that up to 20% of the finished product could be fruit juice, and I'm sure that I've seen figures of around 15% used in some articles I have read.

I did write to a couple of the wineries and asked them exactly how the process was carried out and whether the fruit juice was added to the grape juice and then fermented together, or whether it was added after the initial fermentation of the grapes, but no response. On that subject, some of these fruit wines are 13 to 13.5% alcohol and if the fruit juice was added after initial grape fermentation then that would surely bring the final alcohol content down, so that would not appear to be the case – – fermented together perhaps?

Another poster, Grant Smith, is the expert on taxes/duty/etc however there seems to be some "confusion" as do quite how the excise tax/duty/whatever is applied in Thailand (not surprising really) and if there is a loophole, then certainly many producers of fruit wine have found it, and it does come from countries such as the USA, South Africa, Australia, France, Italy, South America and even from Vietnam, where apparently the grape juice is imported and fermented with fruit juice in Vietnam then shipped to be sold through the Wine Connection stores.

So how was the head after consuming the wine?

฿500 for a fruit wine? Jesus wept... As others have said, for that, you could go as low as Jacob's Creek but as Khun topt & xylophone have said Barwang is bang for your buck.

The headache you'll potentially get is from the Sulphur that is "likely" added to the product as a preservative. I say likely as unless you hear it straight from the horses mouth you'll always be guessing. You're not likely to suffer any other life threatening complications, certainly nothing like the Austrian "Anti-freeze" fiasco. But there are a few importers crying that it will only be a matter of time before these fruit wines do some serious damage due to contamination somewhere along the supply chain and destroy the Australian wine industry. Pure scaremongering IMHO.

Unfortunately these fruit wines are popular among many 5 star hotels here as house pour wines due to their price point, this is extremely frustrating as it gives a false impression of the actual market.

Taxation? Oy vey.. But given the recent spike in pricing of these wines it could be safe to say that they're not getting any relief by doing it the way they are.

Or perhaps someone is taking the opportunity to massage their margins - not a happy ending for the end consumer...............

[xylophone]

Agree with 'topt" about the price of this wine and also agree that the Barwang and Taras could well be a better option for you.

I personally find the fruit wines do give me a bit of a headache, but I have been unable to find out why, but if they don't and you like them, then go ahead and drink them, after all it is your choice.

There has been much written on this subject here and if my memory serves me correct it was "pretty well established" that up to 20% of the finished product could be fruit juice, and I'm sure that I've seen figures of around 15% used in some articles I have read.

I did write to a couple of the wineries and asked them exactly how the process was carried out and whether the fruit juice was added to the grape juice and then fermented together, or whether it was added after the initial fermentation of the grapes, but no response. On that subject, some of these fruit wines are 13 to 13.5% alcohol and if the fruit juice was added after initial grape fermentation then that would surely bring the final alcohol content down, so that would not appear to be the case – – fermented together perhaps?

Another poster, Grant Smith, is the expert on taxes/duty/etc however there seems to be some "confusion" as do quite how the excise tax/duty/whatever is applied in Thailand (not surprising really) and if there is a loophole, then certainly many producers of fruit wine have found it, and it does come from countries such as the USA, South Africa, Australia, France, Italy, South America and even from Vietnam, where apparently the grape juice is imported and fermented with fruit juice in Vietnam then shipped to be sold through the Wine Connection stores.

So how was the head after consuming the wine?

฿500 for a fruit wine? Jesus wept... As others have said, for that, you could go as low as Jacob's Creek but as Khun topt & xylophone have said Barwang is bang for your buck.

The headache you'll potentially get is from the Sulphur that is "likely" added to the product as a preservative. I say likely as unless you hear it straight from the horses mouth you'll always be guessing. You're not likely to suffer any other life threatening complications, certainly nothing like the Austrian "Anti-freeze" fiasco. But there are a few importers crying that it will only be a matter of time before these fruit wines do some serious damage due to contamination somewhere along the supply chain and destroy the Australian wine industry. Pure scaremongering IMHO.

Unfortunately these fruit wines are popular among many 5 star hotels here as house pour wines due to their price point, this is extremely frustrating as it gives a false impression of the actual market.

Taxation? Oy vey.. But given the recent spike in pricing of these wines it could be safe to say that they're not getting any relief by doing it the way they are.

Or perhaps someone is taking the opportunity to massage their margins - not a happy ending for the end consumer...............

Picking up on the price of that fruit wine, and the price of a few others I've seen, I really don't see why there is a need to do that unless as "topt" has stated, it is a way of massaging their margins, hoping that the buyers will not know it contains fruit juice (and judging by what the last poster has said, he didn't realise it had fruit juice in it until he read the small print on the back of the label).

My point is that there are Australian wines (for example) without fruit juice added, selling here for around 500 baht a bottle and just over, some just below so for that price will get you a "real wine" (so as not to offend anybody here, I mean a wine made solely with grapes), why on earth would you want to go for one with fruit juice added?

I could see the "market" for those priced at 269 to 299 baht because it is set at a price point and there are people who buy at these price points, but if you're going to spend 500 baht, then why would anyone pick a wine with fruit juice added.

I can't understand the mindset as regards "branding" for some of these companies, however many seem to be jumping on the bandwagon, so there must be something in it. Although I will add that I don't believe any "high end" wine company would be including something like this in their range because that would certainly result in brand damage.

And it is not just prevalent in Thailand, as I recently read an article from a UK wine writer who was dismayed at the fact that these fruit wines were finding their way into the everyday wines sold on supermarket shelves, and he couldn't see the rationale behind it either because they were not that much cheaper than the real thing.

Countries like Australia occasionally have wine gluts and this "surplus wine" often finds its way into other countries or repackaged in the likes of Australia as "clean skins" or the like, and it is not expensive so with this in mind where does the need to add fruit juice to it come into the equation.

I guess what I'm saying is that although these things are becoming more prevalent in the market, I can't see a strong argument for them except perhaps in countries like Thailand where the excise duty/tax/whatever is prohibitive!

Edited October 18, 2015 by xylophone