Montclair Wine

[seajae]

I'm glad to hear someone else also finds some of the Aussie reds too big! This get together sounds very promising

Tuesday evening I met up with a friend from Tasmania and he had brought over a bottle of Penfold's Thomas Hyland Adelaide Shiraz 2010 to share, and as we were the only wine drinkers in our small group I relished the thought of getting into a decent Aussie red.

When he poured the wine it was inky black and I had thoughts of it taking time to open up, although we were lucky because the wine glasses were the large variety and this would help with the process. It had been chilled a little, so there was much swilling of wine in the glass as well warming the glass with one's hands. The food was a while coming so this process went on for a time, however no matter how much we did it and how hard we tried there was absolutely nothing on the nose, and that was the opinion of the others in the party – – it gave up nothing on the nose.

As for the taste, well the tannins were huge although slightly dry and just approachable, but the taste or aromas of anything resembling spice and black pepper, black cherry, cinnamon, plums and whatever else Shiraz is famous for in Australia, weren't evident.

So there we were looking at this big, black, brooding beast of a wine waiting for it to thrill our palates and it never did, even over the period of one and a half hours. I had looked at the alcohol content and it was 14.5% so I knew I was in for a few dead brain cells the next morning especially as there was more imbibing to be done after the meal had finished.

I have had experience before with wines going through a "dumb" phase, which many wines do within the 1st few years of bottling, however I have also known a few which have never come out of that phase, staying just like that for many years until such time as they fade away without ever realising their potential, and I wondered if this was such a wine?

I would love it if there was a little more elegance and finesse in wines such as these, giving up more complex aromas and tastes as they age, however I don't think that some of the Australian winemakers are capable of it unfortunately.

bummer, another reason I stick to merlots. An hour or two to breathe before consuming and it is great. Years ago at a tasting I went to they had a nifty invention that ran on water, a tube went into the bottle and the water pressure dragged it out and filtered it into another bottle or carafe, they were using a pretty young/green wine and the difference was unbelieveable, even the nose changed. Still kicking myself for not getting one, I think they were about $20 back then('88), would have worked wonders with the shiraz by the sound of it.

[seajae]

I'm glad to hear someone else also finds some of the Aussie reds too big! This get together sounds very promising

For some reason they go for alcohol content which really buggers it up at times. I prefer the alcohol content to be under 10%, closer to 8 actually but hard to find unless they were from overseas. To counter I looked for a good quality wine then when I found one I buy several bottles/a case or two. The other thing is the life of the wine in the bottle, some good ones can last for years but a lot cannot and collapse into vinegar after only 5 or so years,a god wine should last at least 10 to 15 years but I have had quality wines last much longer and taste like mothers milk. A mate came across 2 bottles of 1950 port when cleaning out a garage for an old lady and she told him to keep them(2003), boy were they bloody beautiful to drink.

[xylophone]

I'm glad to hear someone else also finds some of the Aussie reds too big! This get together sounds very promising

Tuesday evening I met up with a friend from Tasmania and he had brought over a bottle of Penfold's Thomas Hyland Adelaide Shiraz 2010 to share, and as we were the only wine drinkers in our small group I relished the thought of getting into a decent Aussie red.

When he poured the wine it was inky black and I had thoughts of it taking time to open up, although we were lucky because the wine glasses were the large variety and this would help with the process. It had been chilled a little, so there was much swilling of wine in the glass as well warming the glass with one's hands. The food was a while coming so this process went on for a time, however no matter how much we did it and how hard we tried there was absolutely nothing on the nose, and that was the opinion of the others in the party – – it gave up nothing on the nose.

As for the taste, well the tannins were huge although slightly dry and just approachable, but the taste or aromas of anything resembling spice and black pepper, black cherry, cinnamon, plums and whatever else Shiraz is famous for in Australia, weren't evident.

So there we were looking at this big, black, brooding beast of a wine waiting for it to thrill our palates and it never did, even over the period of one and a half hours. I had looked at the alcohol content and it was 14.5% so I knew I was in for a few dead brain cells the next morning especially as there was more imbibing to be done after the meal had finished.

I have had experience before with wines going through a "dumb" phase, which many wines do within the 1st few years of bottling, however I have also known a few which have never come out of that phase, staying just like that for many years until such time as they fade away without ever realising their potential, and I wondered if this was such a wine?

I would love it if there was a little more elegance and finesse in wines such as these, giving up more complex aromas and tastes as they age, however I don't think that some of the Australian winemakers are capable of it unfortunately.

bummer, another reason I stick to merlots. An hour or two to breathe before consuming and it is great. Years ago at a tasting I went to they had a nifty invention that ran on water, a tube went into the bottle and the water pressure dragged it out and filtered it into another bottle or carafe, they were using a pretty young/green wine and the difference was unbelieveable, even the nose changed. Still kicking myself for not getting one, I think they were about $20 back then('88), would have worked wonders with the shiraz by the sound of it.

That sounds like a nifty invention and never heard of it before!!

In the case of this wine, I think it was still going through its "dumb phase", which wines can go through in their youth, whereby they give nothing up and nothing is evident by way of aromas and taste. This is a well-known phenomenon although I'm not sure what causes it, although I do know that it is different from another term which is used, called "bottle shock" which results in a similar effect, but is quite short lived.

On your recommendation I will try the Merlots again, as I gave them away a while ago after tasting a few flabby ones which disappointed me somewhat, so the grape as a stand-alone/varietal, fell out of favour with me. Any recommendations from your experience?

[seajae]

I'm glad to hear someone else also finds some of the Aussie reds too big! This get together sounds very promising

Tuesday evening I met up with a friend from Tasmania and he had brought over a bottle of Penfold's Thomas Hyland Adelaide Shiraz 2010 to share, and as we were the only wine drinkers in our small group I relished the thought of getting into a decent Aussie red.

When he poured the wine it was inky black and I had thoughts of it taking time to open up, although we were lucky because the wine glasses were the large variety and this would help with the process. It had been chilled a little, so there was much swilling of wine in the glass as well warming the glass with one's hands. The food was a while coming so this process went on for a time, however no matter how much we did it and how hard we tried there was absolutely nothing on the nose, and that was the opinion of the others in the party – – it gave up nothing on the nose.

As for the taste, well the tannins were huge although slightly dry and just approachable, but the taste or aromas of anything resembling spice and black pepper, black cherry, cinnamon, plums and whatever else Shiraz is famous for in Australia, weren't evident.

So there we were looking at this big, black, brooding beast of a wine waiting for it to thrill our palates and it never did, even over the period of one and a half hours. I had looked at the alcohol content and it was 14.5% so I knew I was in for a few dead brain cells the next morning especially as there was more imbibing to be done after the meal had finished.

I have had experience before with wines going through a "dumb" phase, which many wines do within the 1st few years of bottling, however I have also known a few which have never come out of that phase, staying just like that for many years until such time as they fade away without ever realising their potential, and I wondered if this was such a wine?

I would love it if there was a little more elegance and finesse in wines such as these, giving up more complex aromas and tastes as they age, however I don't think that some of the Australian winemakers are capable of it unfortunately.

bummer, another reason I stick to merlots. An hour or two to breathe before consuming and it is great. Years ago at a tasting I went to they had a nifty invention that ran on water, a tube went into the bottle and the water pressure dragged it out and filtered it into another bottle or carafe, they were using a pretty young/green wine and the difference was unbelieveable, even the nose changed. Still kicking myself for not getting one, I think they were about $20 back then('88), would have worked wonders with the shiraz by the sound of it.

That sounds like a nifty invention and never heard of it before!!

In the case of this wine, I think it was still going through its "dumb phase", which wines can go through in their youth, whereby they give nothing up and nothing is evident by way of aromas and taste. This is a well-known phenomenon although I'm not sure what causes it, although I do know that it is different from another term which is used, called "bottle shock" which results in a similar effect, but is quite short lived.

On your recommendation I will try the Merlots again, as I gave them away a while ago after tasting a few flabby ones which disappointed me somewhat, so the grape as a stand-alone/varietal, fell out of favour with me. Any recommendations from your experience?

The Tua Tua from NZ was a merlot malbec 2008 and is excellent, I usually went for WA merlot or merlot cabernet, even merlot cab savs were pretty good. A good one from Victoria was the Preece 2007 merlot, got better as it aged but if you can get any merlot based wines from 2008 to 2010 they are usually ok from most states. In Australia I was a big fan of greysonline, they would sell out overstocked wines, clearences etc and I got some great bargains, $50 bottle wines for under $30 for a six pack, unfortunately they dont send to Thailand. Occasionally you will find one that needs a minimum of 5 or so years to get the true taste to emerge and dont be afraid to get wines from smaller vineyards, there are some rippers amongst them. I have at the moment 2 Harris River Estate WA 2009 Cabernet Merlots, the Tua Tua and a bottle of Oisillion Adelaide Hills SA 2010 cab sav merlot, these are all top wines, unfortunately the brain isnt working too good here and I cannot remember all the other goodies I used to buy. I think not being around them and other wine drinkers tends to leed to a bit of forgetfulness, bugger, 60 in a few weeks too, hahahaha, it will only get worse....

[xylophone]

Quote seajae: "For some reason they go for alcohol content which really buggers it up at times. I prefer the alcohol content to be under 10%, closer to 8 actually but hard to find unless they were from overseas".

Thanks for the recommendations seajae, don't know that I will find them in Thailand but I will look for those or the equivalent. Actually I don't mind the Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot blends so might just move away from the big Aussie Shiraz wines for the moment, and that will also help keep the brain cells from dying off, and being some 6 years older than you, mine are probably dying off a lot faster, especially considering that in the main I have drunk a bottle of red wine every night for the past 40 years or so!!

Regarding your comment on the alcohol content as quoted above, the only wines I can recall that would be in that range would be the white wines from Germany and the Alsace, and as beautiful as they can be, I just don't drink them many more, preferring reds, and the alcohol content of those is in general between 12.5% and 13.5% (more especially in the old world wines). There was a time when one could buy French "vin de table" wines which would be around 9% (and sometimes less before the laws became more strictly enforced) however I don't think these are readily available here, or if they are, probably not advisable to buy given the fact that they are at the very low end of the scale!!

I mentioned the Leuwin Estate wines and these were delicately crafted reds and although the alcohol content was probably 13% and possibly more, it was not evident in the wine because of the superb balance of all elements in the wine. I did taste one a few years ago, however don't think that it was anywhere near the quality of those halcyon days.

[Finlaco]

I just tried Bodegas Centenarius" Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot and on the basis of what it is, a 4l boxed wine, I’d have to
say I recommend it. I actually add ice to it, something that back home I’d be jailed for, but again no hangover, no
issues with stomach and its drinkable. It’s not a premium wine but can’t fault it.

[Bcgardener]

Worth trying in the everyday drinkiing category is Rumours wines at Makro. Good honest Australian wines from around the Griffith area. A family owned winery started by Italian immigrants. Not top shelf but at 299 a bottle great value. Works out at about $10 Aussie. When i was in Sydney a few months ago it was selling for about $6 so not a bad markup for here. My wife just picked up a few dozen at Makro Pattaya abd said it was flying out the door with most buying it by the dozen. They have a nice chardonay also merlot and cab sav.

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[xylophone]

Worth trying in the everyday drinkiing category is Rumours wines at Makro. Good honest Australian wines from around the Griffith area. A family owned winery started by Italian immigrants. Not top shelf but at 299 a bottle great value. Works out at about $10 Aussie. When i was in Sydney a few months ago it was selling for about $6 so not a bad markup for here. My wife just picked up a few dozen at Makro Pattaya abd said it was flying out the door with most buying it by the dozen. They have a nice chardonay also merlot and cab sav.

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Thanks for the tip, will get along to Makro to try it as need a new Aussie "drinker" because my previous one, "The Pump", has really gone downhill as regards quality.

Also have to agree with Finlaco as the "Centenarius" is my pick of the boxed wines tasted to date here, although I prefer to keep it chilled rather than add ice to it.

[Bcgardener]

Agree with you on "The Pump". Had a bottle of the chardonay last week. It was not good, barely drinkable. I contacted the maker of Rumours wines in Aussie and had a very interesting email conversation with their export manager. They supply the wine that is packaged in boxes under the "Cedar Creek" label. He told me that it is the same wine that they bottle as "Rumours". As Cedar Creek is around 1000 Baht for 5 litres (I think?) this is good value over the 299 botlles. Anyone tried both theee to compare? I will certainly get a box to try.

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[laislica]

Elo Elo - Glad to be almost back in the living!

I just spent an age reading and catching up with this wonderful thread.

Remember that there was a proposal a while back to change the name and make it permanent? Would someone who knows how to do it - please do it!!

I am now home in Spain but bogged down in essential paperwork. The only wines I have tried have been Rioja, with a tapas included at that!

I promise that, once the paperwork is done, I will get in som different bottles and try them and make a report. We have a few local wine shops that stock a good variety of wines, Spanish, French and world wide so I shall have no excuse, save for that my lovely wife drinks vary little so the experiance may be a little restricted.

BTW - well done to Karen "Pretentious" - caused the group to close ranks and only say nice things (thanks Grumpyoldman) - well done all and may it continue long in this excellent form.

For Joco - I know what you mean - sometimes there is so much info in a single post that it is hard to comprehend it all - in one go that is. However, like a fine wine - revisit the same again and again.....

I have the feeling that X is missing something here, writing a book for dummies.....

Go for it, I´m sure that many of this group would love to proof read/comment?

What say?

[xylophone]

Worth trying in the everyday drinkiing category is Rumours wines at Makro. Good honest Australian wines from around the Griffith area. A family owned winery started by Italian immigrants. Not top shelf but at 299 a bottle great value. Works out at about $10 Aussie. When i was in Sydney a few months ago it was selling for about $6 so not a bad markup for here. My wife just picked up a few dozen at Makro Pattaya abd said it was flying out the door with most buying it by the dozen. They have a nice chardonay also merlot and cab sav.

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Hi BCG, I went to Makro and they did have the Rumours wine, but only the Merlot, so I bought a bottle to try, and have to say it wasn't much to my liking as I found it a little "green", and this could have been quite possibly because it was from young vines? My local Makro did not have the Cabernet Sauvignon, so I lucked out there I'm afraid.

HOWEVER, I did have a stroke of luck in Big C here (Patong) because as one of their weekly specials they had an Australian Shiraz 2010 called "Aspen Estate" at the same price as Rumours, 299 baht per bottle, and it was very drinkable for that price, and one could taste some of the elements of the Shiraz grape, which are not always evident in the cheaper wines.

Once again, thank you for the tip and I will keep my eyes open for the Rumours Cabernet Sauvignon.

[xylophone]

Agree with you on "The Pump". Had a bottle of the chardonay last week. It was not good, barely drinkable. I contacted the maker of Rumours wines in Aussie and had a very interesting email conversation with their export manager. They supply the wine that is packaged in boxes under the "Cedar Creek" label. He told me that it is the same wine that they bottle as "Rumours". As Cedar Creek is around 1000 Baht for 5 litres (I think?) this is good value over the 299 botlles. Anyone tried both theee to compare? I will certainly get a box to try.

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Interesting information about the link between Cedar Creek and Rumours......... you live and learn, thanks for that.

I have tried the Cedar Creek and it is a fair drinker although I think I tried the Shiraz. Maybe tried the Cabernet Sauvignon/Shiraz blend as well, not sure about this as may be getting a couple of wines confused, not to mention the few brain cells I've got left diminishing fast!!!

[GiantFan]

Was having dinner at Wine Connection and tried the 2012 Rooks Lane Shiraz. It was pretty good. Went inside to see about buying a bottle to take home and it was on special for THB 399. I liked it even more.

[jocko]

To cork or not to cork that is the question

bbc.htm

[xylophone]

To cork or not to cork that is the question

Thanks for that article, Jocko, it makes interesting reading.

As I posted in another thread, the cork is still considered the "gold standard" for wine closures, despite the number of wines being "corked" because of faulty ones. I have to admit that I have never experienced the 7 to 10% of wines tasted being corked as per Robert Parker, in my case more like 2% or less of the somewhere around 15,000 bottles tasted, although other people have said around 5%, but I suspect that also includes faulty wines from ill fitting/loose corks rather than the spoilage due to the chemical 2-4-6 Trichloroanisole present in the corks.

Another point worth considering is that in many of the older underground cellars in France where literally millions of bottles of wine are stored, some going back 100 years or more, there is a mould/fungus which grows on the walls and ceilings which can be a couple of inches thick, and this does present itself on the bottles and corks (as many wines are stored without the lead capsules) without doing any damage. However I wonder what effect this humidity and mould/fungus would have on a metal enclosure??

Perhaps that could be one drawback of the screwtop, in as much as long-time storage in those conditions could well result in a disintegration of it. Suffice it to say that many wines which use the screwtop's are for early or medium-term drinking, rather than long-term storage, at the moment that is!!

The debate will go on for a long time I suspect.

[xylophone]

Check out your local "Big C" store to see if they are selling "Little Yering" Cab/Shiraz 2009 at a discounted price. Despite it being labelled with three different prices, including one at 528 baht, it is still on the computers at the "special" price of 399 baht and is a very good buy.

The tannins have softened and the fruit is very evident with the blackcurrent flavour from the Cab Sauv more prominent than the peppery Shiraz.....esp if given time in the glass to open up.

[eezergood]

Check out your local "Big C" store to see if they are selling "Little Yering" Cab/Shiraz 2009 at a discounted price. Despite it being labelled with three different prices, including one at 528 baht, it is still on the computers at the "special" price of 399 baht and is a very good buy.

The tannins have softened and the fruit is very evident with the blackcurrent flavour from the Cab Sauv more prominent than the peppery Shiraz.....esp if given time in the glass to open up.

Littel Yerring is the baby Yerring station wine - VERY good value for money here, but whilst you can guys

[dmitryspb]

We've purchased 4.5 l of Cedar Creek Red 2012 (Makro), but result was only headache after usual daily glass.. Worst wine i bought here.

[eezergood]

These terrible wines can be saved - make sangria

Edited June 29, 2013 by eezergood

[xylophone]

We've purchased 4.5 l of Cedar Creek Red 2012 (Makro), but result was only headache after usual daily glass.. Worst wine i bought here.

Was it just a terrible wine in your opinion, or was it "off" (due to heat/age etc)? I've had two box wines which were "off" and really couldn't drink them, so took them back.............but that's another story!

[dmitryspb]

Was it just a terrible wine in your opinion, or was it "off" (due to heat/age etc)? I've had two box wines which were "off" and really couldn't drink them, so took them back.............but that's another story!

How could I return it if I already opened it? Not sure about "off", but wine is really terrible. Nothing to add. Last time we bought some Italian 5L pack in same Makro and it was OK, no headache, average quality..

[xylophone]

Was it just a terrible wine in your opinion, or was it "off" (due to heat/age etc)? I've had two box wines which were "off" and really couldn't drink them, so took them back.............but that's another story!

How could I return it if I already opened it? Not sure about "off", but wine is really terrible. Nothing to add. Last time we bought some Italian 5L pack in same Makro and it was OK, no headache, average quality..

Quote: "How could I return it if I already opened it?"

Lol, that's the only time you can return it!! You then know what it is like.........although it is not a readily accepted concept here, It can be changed with some strong representations, especially if one can see or smell that the wine is not what it should be.

Anyway, in the first instance most wine producers will, and do, agree to "reimburse" resellers of wine if the wine is "of" as a result of poor vinification or production methods. Secondly, the wine merchant/seller has to sell you a wine which is fit for consumption, and if it is cloudy and foul smelling, for example, then they have not provided you with what you paid for.

Unfortunately it is an uphill struggle in Thailand to get wine changed, although I have managed it with two box wines which were off, and one bottle, because they do not train their staff to understand wine and what rights the customer has.

[xylophone]

Sorry dmitryspb, was going to add a bit more but the rugby started again so I had to take a break to watch the second half!!

A couple of pointers which may help to determine the condition of the wine............how does it look in the glass? Although it is a red wine, it should be clear, and by that I mean not cloudy or have any bits floating about in it when held up to a light. Smell will give you another pointer, does it smell like a "Sherry" or have any unusual smells to it like kerosene or pear drops, or even vinegar?

And of course, taste.......does it taste like a normal wine should (I know this is hard but not easy to describe) or does it have some unusual taste characteristic which makes it unpalatable, or almost so?

If none of the above, then it is quite possible the wine is just not to your liking, however from your description something doesn't sound quite right.

[Bcgardener]

The company that makes cedar creek told me that they and other producers put a lot more sulphates (preservative) in box wine as they do not keep as well as bottles. Could be the reason for the headache. I have the same problem so will stick to bottles.

Great result in the rugby by the way... For me anyway

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[xylophone]

The company that makes cedar creek told me that they and other producers put a lot more sulphates (preservative) in box wine as they do not keep as well as bottles. Could be the reason for the headache. I have the same problem so will stick to bottles.

Great result in the rugby by the way... For me anyway

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Thanks for that information Bcg, it was something I hadn't really thought about (you learn something every day) even though I know they use sulphur dioxide in the production of wine.

On the one hand putting more sulphur dioxide in the wine to beef up its action as a preservative and killer of microbes et cetera might seem like a reasonable idea, however there are many folk who are affected by the presence of sulphur dioxide in wine, so this could be causing the headaches mentioned. Good post.

[Bcgardener]

The company that makes cedar creek told me that they and other producers put a lot more sulphates (preservative) in box wine as they do not keep as well as bottles. Could be the reason for the headache. I have the same problem so will stick to bottles.

Great result in the rugby by the way... For me anyway

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Thanks for that information Bcg, it was something I hadn't really thought about (you learn something every day) even though I know they use sulphur dioxide in the production of wine.

On the one hand putting more sulphur dioxide in the wine to beef up its action as a preservative and killer of microbes et cetera might seem like a reasonable idea, however there are many folk who are affected by the presence of sulphur dioxide in wine, so this could be causing the headaches mentioned. Good post.

I had a bottle of Penfolds 389 (not purchased locally) last night with some lovely slow cooked lamb shanks. After drinking the quaffing wines here for so long I had forgotten just how good a quality red can be. Oh well back to the 299 specials this week. last time I looked at Villa in Pattaya the 389 was over 6,000 Baht a bottle.

[xylophone]

The company that makes cedar creek told me that they and other producers put a lot more sulphates (preservative) in box wine as they do not keep as well as bottles. Could be the reason for the headache. I have the same problem so will stick to bottles.

Great result in the rugby by the way... For me anyway

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for that information Bcg, it was something I hadn't really thought about (you learn something every day) even though I know they use sulphur dioxide in the production of wine.

On the one hand putting more sulphur dioxide in the wine to beef up its action as a preservative and killer of microbes et cetera might seem like a reasonable idea, however there are many folk who are affected by the presence of sulphur dioxide in wine, so this could be causing the headaches mentioned. Good post.

I had a bottle of Penfolds 389 (not purchased locally) last night with some lovely slow cooked lamb shanks. After drinking the quaffing wines here for so long I had forgotten just how good a quality red can be. Oh well back to the 299 specials this week. last time I looked at Villa in Pattaya the 389 was over 6,000 Baht a bottle.

Lucky man, sounds great and I know exactly what you mean about trying a decent wine once in a while. So tonight I ripped into a bottle of Taylors Clare Valley Cab Sauvignon, 2009, bought here at a discounted price and it was lovely (not a patch on the Penfolds 389 though).

For the record, the Little Yering Cab/Shiraz 2009 which was on sale for 399 baht has now gone back to its original price of 528 baht, so lucky that I bought 6 bottles at the discounted price!! Got to get the discounted wines whilst they are available!!

[Bcgardener]

Don't know if you are one for whites but what are your experiences with Chilean sauvignon blanc. I've tried a few and settled on one, Via something but can't remember now as I don't have any. Do you have any good ones you have tried?

I love the NZ ones like Kim Crawford but so expensive here.

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[xylophone]

Don't know if you are one for whites but what are your experiences with Chilean sauvignon blanc. I've tried a few and settled on one, Via something but can't remember now as I don't have any. Do you have any good ones you have tried?

I love the NZ ones like Kim Crawford but so expensive here.

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Sorry to say that I can't help you on that one Bcg as I am not a white wine drinker any more (never was one much anyway).

I did like the Kim Crawford unoaked Chardonnay and also a few NZ Chardonnays with part malolactic fermentation.........never really took to Sauvignon Blanc although I was pleasantly surprised by a NZ South Island S/B which had delicate floral notes in it and could easily have been mistaken for a Riesling BUT can't remember the name!!!

Here I think its a case of "keep trying until you find one you like" and don't stop trying until you do! There are a few "gems" to be found in amongst the grot! Good luck with your search and perhaps post your findings here as I'm sure many would like to know.

[Bcgardener]

Thanks any way. My tastes change between reds and whites but my wife likes white ( Aussie Thai lived 12 years in Sydney) . During the week I pretty much stay with white but give me a good Wallabies or Manly game and the red comes out. I will just have to work my way through the Chilean range at Friendship Mart in Pattaya. By the way had some nice Grant Burge wines from there, red and white but about 450 a bottle.

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