Questions About A Funeral Ceremony I Just Attended.

[cooked]

My son in law just lost what would have been his first grandchild, miscarriage.

First question: why was it not cremated, but buried?

Secondly, what, in a sentence, were the monks chanting about? Bon voyage?

Third, what was the significance of slowly emptying a cup of water into a plate?

A large green beetle landed in front of the plate just as the cup had emptied. What significance will the Thais make of this? My wife told me now I should know... know what?

And lastly, I decided that I want a funeral ceremony like this when the time comes, will I as a Farang be treated like a Thai? I hope so...

[market trader]

Good questions. I to would like to know why the dead child was buried and not cremated. My only thought is that this was the wish of the parents.

[Thaddeus]

I can only answer the first question, and it isn't a particularly good answer, it is traditional for still-borns or infants to be buried rather than cremated, I've asked why, and never got an answer that made any sense, it's just done that way.

Sorry for your families loss.

[khaowong1]

In answer to some of your questions. Thaddeus is right about the burial.. I can't get a straight, understandable answer either.

2nd.. the monks are chanting about the impermance of all of life.. humans, animals, plants etc. and etc.

3rd... the water ceremony is a way to offer blessings on family member who have passed away.. asking that they are granted a good life in the next life.

4th....the green beetle.. who knows.. the Thai's will more than likely consider this a great omen and depending on how they interpret it, probably use it to buy a lottery ticket. for example, there were four beetles.. John, Paul, Ringo and what's his name.. so they will buy all combinations of numbers with 4 as their hub. I hope this has been of some help.

[cooked]

Thanks for that guys.

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[camerata]

There's an old belief that a miscarried baby can turn into an angry, vengeful spirit if it is cremated rather than buried.

[Sheryl]

There's an old belief that a miscarried baby can turn into an angry, vengeful spirit if it is cremated rather than buried.

Yes.

One not in any way related to Buddhism, just a superstitious belief.

Actually Buddhist teaching makes very clear that nothing that no type of ritual etc, can influence subsequent rebirth one way or the other.

It comforts family members to believe otherwise, but it is not in fact so.

To answer your last question...yes, yo uwill be treated just like a Thai if you have a Thai funeral and indeed, if you leave behind Thai family, one is probably inevitable. Thai cutlure puts immense importance on it.

[Farma]

Not related to cooked"s question but talking of Buddhist burials.

Our local temple has 3 graves. I asked why the bodies were buried and not cremated. The answer was they are the graves of unidentified murder victims. The bodies were buried so relatives can claim the remains at a later date if the bodies are ever identified.

I've also seen a documentary on a graveyard for unclaimed or unidentified bodies in Bangkok. In a lot of cases the deceased persons family are either unwilling or unable to afford a cremation. Every year a charity recovers some of the remains and pays for cremations.

[lungmi]

Right, this is why monks have to cool down the vengeful spirits.

I assisted to many funerals the last 8 years. The rockets, firework etc. are part of funerals (specially in sino-thai areas) to browbeat the bad ghosts etc. not to trouble the way to heaven.

Catholics have the extreme unction. The animistic origin is that the devil with his claws cannot catch an oiled body going to heaven.

[lungmi]

In Germany just is a legal dispute about when a miscarriage can have a name and funerals. Over 200 gram yes, under the garbage can of the Hospital.

[camerata]

As with other countries, you can specify the type of funeral and disposal of remains you want in your will. That's what I did.

[cooked]

I just found out that two family members (living next door) immediately after the rites left to sleep elsewhere. My 9 year old (step-)granddaughter slept with us for the first time and her mother nearly did also. Phi.

You have to be superstitious if you grow up in a place like this village. Spirits everywhere, trees, certain places. Nobody will be taking the short cut through our garden now as we made a nice grave this morning near the path.

Weird stuff getting all these things together in one concept - Buddhism, animalism and so on.

Most of these people seem to be living in dread of evil spirits, a fearless Farang must have a special status I should think. Weird.

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[khaowong1]

I just found out that two family members (living next door) immediately after the rites left to sleep elsewhere. My 9 year old (step-)granddaughter slept with us for the first time and her mother nearly did also. Phi.

You have to be superstitious if you grow up in a place like this village. Spirits everywhere, trees, certain places. Nobody will be taking the short cut through our garden now as we made a nice grave this morning near the path.

Weird stuff getting all these things together in one concept - Buddhism, animalism and so on.

Most of these people seem to be living in dread of evil spirits, a fearless Farang must have a special status I should think. Weird.

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You want to have some fun or maybe to get rid of unwanted house guests, mention you saw a ghost last night when you went to the bathroom. Pfffffffttt. Gone in a heart beat.

[Payboy]

.....there were four beetles.. John, Paul, Ringo and what's his name...

Herbie?

[lungmi]

Don't fight back with Farang rationalism. No one will understand you. Stay quiet. Fearless Farang have their superstition too.

Not today, but I can give you the answer in an equvalent value.

[cooked]

Sorry, I gave out a lottery number this morning so everybody's happy now.

Edited May 19, 2013 by cooked

[lungmi]

Google

jivaka kumar bhaccha

You will have some photos and information about the Doctorfather of the Buddha, the founder of traditional Thai medecin.

Look to the necklace, the protection against bad spirits, ghosts and so on.

My medical instructor (old monk from Wat Pho) gave me an old necklace to protect me against the bad phi of sick people (feaver, personal disorders etc) when i treat them to avoid

that the phi jump on me.

Other experience: In Thung Saliang district is a famous abbot specialised in treatment of paranoid and "phi" obsessed people. He gives them after instruction the same necklace

I mentioned with the "order" to take one of the "bullet" of the necklace connected to a Buddhist mantra and the bad phi will run away .

There will be some wats in your area, may be you can find a necklace for you and your family. If it not works, no problem, it doesn't harm and is beautiful.

I have a necklace from Burma: Sandalwood!!! Moskitos don't like me anymore.

[khaowong1]

Google

jivaka kumar bhaccha

You will have some photos and information about the Doctorfather of the Buddha, the founder of traditional Thai medecin.

Look to the necklace, the protection against bad spirits, ghosts and so on.

My medical instructor (old monk from Wat Pho) gave me an old necklace to protect me against the bad phi of sick people (feaver, personal disorders etc) when i treat them to avoid

that the phi jump on me.

Other experience: In Thung Saliang district is a famous abbot specialised in treatment of paranoid and "phi" obsessed people. He gives them after instruction the same necklace

I mentioned with the "order" to take one of the "bullet" of the necklace connected to a Buddhist mantra and the bad phi will run away .

There will be some wats in your area, may be you can find a necklace for you and your family. If it not works, no problem, it doesn't harm and is beautiful.

I have a necklace from Burma: Sandalwood!!! Moskitos don't like me anymore.

You see statues of him everywhere.. especially in Thai/Chinese medicine offices. My old teacher/mentor Luang Pho Sam Nga who stays at Wat Sam Ngan on Rami I in Bangkok, has a room with a large statue of him where people come to get traditional medicines and treatment from a monk.

[cooked]

Learning a lot about Thailand through this thread,thanks. I wonder if Thais know as much about Thailand as do many Farangs... 'They know not England, that only England know'...

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[khaowong1]

Learning a lot about Thailand through this thread,thanks. I wonder if Thais know as much about Thailand as do many Farangs... 'They know not England, that only England know'...


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No.. I could go on and on about why they don't know as much about Thailand as us farangs, but I would probably get my ass in trouble, so I will just say, NO..

[beautifulthailand99]

Sorry to hear of your loss I hope these practices aid in helping your family overcome their grief. At my father in laws funeral friends and family drank and gambled next to the coffin for three days - apparently they didn't want the departed spirit to be sad.

[khaowong1]

Sorry to hear of your loss I hope these practices aid in helping your family overcome their grief. At my father in laws funeral friends and family drank and gambled next to the coffin for three days - apparently they didn't want the departed spirit to be sad.

Kind of like an Irish wake.

[beautifulthailand99]

Sorry to hear of your loss I hope these practices aid in helping your family overcome their grief. At my father in laws funeral friends and family drank and gambled next to the coffin for three days - apparently they didn't want the departed spirit to be sad.

Kind of like an Irish wake.

Yes which was strange since he himself neither drank or gambled - these practices and superstitions and the innate familial sociability of Thais seem to be very helpful in helping them to cope with loss and not descend into melancholic grief. Hopefully cooked the ceremony you detailed in your OP will help everybody on their way. Thai's also don't look back very much or overly dwell on negative thoughts so I suspect recovery back to good spirits will be quicker than you may have thought. Buddhism however badly practised or perverted in Thailand which is sadly widespread is though baked into their cultural DNA - all things are impermanent - strive on with diligence.

[AyG]

Cremation is traditionally associated with cleansing of wrong doings. A stillborn child has not accumulated any in this life, so doesn't need to be cremated.

Occasionally monks who have achieved enlightenment will also not be cremated for the same reason.

I suspect this understanding came from India with Brahmanism.

[lungmi]

Sorry to hear of your loss I hope these practices aid in helping your family overcome their grief. At my father in laws funeral friends and family drank and gambled next to the coffin for three days - apparently they didn't want the departed spirit to be sad.

Kind of like an Irish wake.

Yes, Irish wake. I famous Irish folk song: An old member of his whiskey community in his coffin hears the last chanting of his fellows. He gets upset, opens the coffin shouting " You dare to drink alone? Give me a whiskey!"

Reanimation Irish style.

[lungmi]

Coming back to reality.

My wife took care of a lonesome babybird. The bird dies today.

We made a pothole under the tree where the family of our dead bird has their home.

My wife made a water ceremony with pali-chanting, I gave the water. (Normally it's reservered for plants)

We closed and gave some more water.

[beautifulthailand99]

Here's a couple of good videos - one of the Thai funeral ceremony and a longer one on the Eastern approach and beliefs about death.