Fines And Jail?

[dirKNirk]

How often is this actually happening? Yea, some guy knows a guy that it happened to. But how realistic is the threat?

I've taught for 2 years and was suddenly let go 5 days before the school year started when the school didn't have the budget for a foreign teacher.

I have a job that's supposed to start on Monday and supposed to be on a bus this evening to go there.

'They' now have the database to check degrees. My questions, if someone would be so kind to answer:

1- How realistic is the threat? Obviously there is a real threat, but are they checking every person who's teaching qualifications are sent in?

2- If/when they do check the database, at what stage is that done? Is it prior to getting the Non-B? Or during the licensing stage.... ?

3- If someone was to get 'caught' - What is usual punishment? Or is this completely arbitrary. I understand the maximums, what I'm asking here is - what is the standard?

Thanks again.

Edited May 18, 2013 by dirKNirk

[Scott]

It is relatively simple. Do not, under any circumstances, use a fake degree, you most likely will get caught. There are a fair number of teachers who fly under the radar and do not get a work permit. A lot of them, by hook or by crook, do manage to secure a longer term visa to stay in Thailand, but they do not get the work permit. It is illegal and you need to be aware of that, but there is less hassle involved.

My experience is limited to working for several related schools and having 3 teachers get sprung with fake degrees. They had worked at the school for a number of years, so why someone took the effort to double check the degrees, I don't know. I believe that there was a MOE inspection of the school (they perform a yearly inspection and about every 3 years they do an in-depth inspection).

Of those 3 teachers, one was later exonerated, sort of. The degree he submitted was bogus, but he did have a degree, but had lost it and simply bought a replacement. The other two are no longer in Thailand, but they were not deported. Sadly, both had wives, who couldn't accompany them.

The TCT is also going to look at the paper work, so you now have the MOE taking a look and the TCT.

We submit the initial paperwork for the Non-immigrant B visa to the MOE and they issue a letter to the Embassy saying that they approve the applicant--or something to that effect. The Embassy or consulate will also have the paper work. We also have to apply for the provisional license, so the TCT takes a close look at whether they agree and to what extent you meet any criteria to Teach (so they do like the transcript to see how many education course you have etc.). Finally, the Ministry of Labor (MOL) will review the documents, and this is usually the original documents.

Any of these places can catch you. If you submit a fake document, then it is considered fraud and that has far reaching consequences for your stay in Thailand.

[Yooyung]

You are much better off flying under the radar than being picked up on it by handing in something that may get you into trouble. There are ways to do this which I am sure you are aware of. I worked here for years on another type of visa which enabled me to stay one year at a time.....but I got sick of not being fully legit and it started getting harder and harder to get decent jobs due to my lack of a degree. It reached a tipping point in 2009 so I went back home and got a degree. I considered staying here and doing it but in the end, I am glad that I have a degree from a recognized western uni.

My advice. Get that piece of paper if you want to live here for more than just a year or two. Its NOT going to get easier. In a couple of years ASEAN will kick off, who knows what that may bring but if you at least have a degree you should be ok. DONT hand in anything dodgey! You may be married, get married have a kid in the future...who knows and It might very well bite you in the A**!

[Scott]

A poster has indicated that this topic may be of interest to posters. I had closed it, but will re-open it. Please be aware that Thaivisa does not condone any illegal activities. Please exercise care in the wording of your posts.

[aidenai]

If you think that, then you didn't read the OP.

Scroll up and take another look and try to give a decent answer that addresses the topic.

Okay then.

THE

CHANGE from 2011 to 2012 was that The Teachers' Council of Thailand issued written requirements for the Provisional Teaching Permit a.k.a. waiver. Already in 2008 Immigration required TCT documents as stated in Police Order 777/2551 and 305/2551 and in 2010, The Ministry of Labour required them. However, until April 2012, there weren't written TCT requirements for the Provisional Teaching Permit. In September 2012, the requirements got updated. The update was merely about which countries were native English speaking countries. Ireland got added to it after many complaints. South Africa stays a non-native English speaking country.

The main thing in the TCT requirements was the necessity of holding an university degree linked to accreditation/ verification by the TEPC and OSCS's database. With this, the TCT declared the OSCS's database as THE online accreditation tool for other government bodies such as Immigration and Labour in regards to employment in the teaching profession under OBEC, OHEC and OVEC. Not sure about the ONIE.

Hope this was a decent answer for you.

In another thread I replied the above.

Having said this I do believe that there are currently three places where checks might take place in regards to the accreditation of university degrees. In my 11 years in the teaching profession in Thailand, I've never seen that either Immigration or the provincial Labour Office were checking my educational credentials on the spot. It would be too time consuming. If checks take place, I think they will be done during internal audits or triggered by intelligence. Don't underestimate the latter.

Since 2006, Thailand has set the requirement of holding a degree when working in OBEC schools. It's reported that some Immigration Offices and Labour Offices have adopted this requirement for other educational institutions. One can agree with this or not. What stands is that it has become law for Thai government bodies.

The case of a member named Hippo comes to mind. He has made public what happened to him after being caught with a fake degree. However, I think he's an exception and that most teachers caught with fake degrees and were punished by Thai law, will vanish from the public forums. Never to be heard of again.

[richard10365]

There was a time when the Ministry of Education was checking high school diploma's and bachelors degree on every student who registered at my university. . This was done by an office in city hall. Now I've been told that's not a requirement any more. However, they still have the ability to do it.If you don't have a degree, it's best to get a degree. With ASEAN changing everything in Southeast Asia, it's only a matter of time before everyone get's checked. Don't think you're smarter than the system. You will probably get caught.

[onlycw]

OT: Directors at government schools who rely on folks flying under the radar, they are sitting pretty?

I read somewhere that the employer gets fined 10,000 Baht while the worker faces a 100,000 Baht fine, jail and deportation.

[Loaded]

OT: Directors at government schools who rely on folks flying under the radar, they are sitting pretty?

I read somewhere that the employer gets fined 10,000 Baht while the worker faces a 100,000 Baht fine, jail and deportation.

Not quite true regarding the employer's liability:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/638913-teaching-without-degree/?p=6395852

Edited May 25, 2013 by Loaded