Teaching Without Degree

[april81]

Hi, i'm from belgium and would like to teach french language in high
school, do you think it's possible to get working permit without any
degree. Where i could have some difficulty ? With the school or with the
labor ministry?


Thanks a lot for your advice

[Scott]

It is possible to get a work permit without a degree, but it is very, very difficult and depends a lot on where you are and what connections the school has.

Some schools will not hire you without a degree, but a lot are primarily concerned that they comply with the regulations and that means a degree, teacher's license etc.

Best of luck.

[paulmw]

Very difficult my friend I’m sorry to say.

Especially since last year’s new rules from the teachers council which now require a degree to get a teachers license.

All immigration offices require now a letter from the teacher’s council before granting a B visa for teaching and you need this to get a work permit.

As I understand now even some labour offices require a copy of the teacher’s council letter.

[Gerald14]

Not sure why people always look for exceptions. The rules require a degree and a teachers license, follow the rules and you travel well

[aidenai]

As I understand now even some labour offices require a copy of the teacher’s council letter.

It's in their requirement since 2010.

[WonnabeBiker]

Not sure why people always look for exceptions. The rules require a degree and a teachers license, follow the rules and you travel well

I know a school which won't do B-Visa, WP or the TCT's waiver or license. It's a government high school.

There might be all these rules - and then there is the reality. Just like the black economy in Italy for example.

Would you be willing to risk working illegally? Schools pay 10 k fine, but the hapless teacher pays 100 k and gets deported.

A very fair and balanced law (sarcasm).

[Loaded]

Not sure why people always look for exceptions. The rules require a degree and a teachers license, follow the rules and you travel well

I know a school which won't do B-Visa, WP or the TCT's waiver or license. It's a government high school.

There might be all these rules - and then there is the reality. Just like the black economy in Italy for example.

Would you be willing to risk working illegally? Schools pay 10 k fine, but the hapless teacher pays 100 k and gets deported.

A very fair and balanced law (sarcasm).

I'm not aware of the law where the school pays 10K and the teacher 100K. Could you reference this law?

[Mario2008]

The alien working act has very different punishment for the employer and the employee for working without a work permit.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=162114

The employer risks a fine of up to 10,000 baht, the employee a jail sentence of up to 5 years and/or a fine of up to 100,000 baht.

[Baerboxer]

What qualifications do you have? Have you ever taught before? Do you have specific qualifications in the French language? Would you be allowed to teach in a school in Belgium or France, with your current experience and qualifications?

If the answers to the questions above are "no" then why do you think Thailand should allow you to teach?

Edited May 13, 2013 by Baerboxer

[aidenai]

The alien working act has very different punishment for the employer and the employee for working without a work permit.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=162114

The employer risks a fine of up to 10,000 baht, the employee a jail sentence of up to 5 years and/or a fine of up to 100,000 baht.

Employer fine up to 100,000 Baht and employee fine up to 100,000 Baht or imprisonment not exceeding 5 years or both.

http://wp.doe.go.th/sites/eng/penalty.pdf

[Mario2008]

Yes, you are right. I misinterpreted the relevant section. For not having a WP the employer can be find 10,000 to 100,000 baht.

[Arkady]

What use will you be to the kids?

[tfc]

It's difficult now. When I was a backpacker I had my CELTA and got a few years of fulltime solid English teaching experience under my belt but no degree at the time. Getting a job anywhere was as easy as turning up and the wages were fantastic particularly in Vietnam. These days I hear that even with CELTA and 5+ years experience it is impossible to LEGALLY get a work permit for English teaching even if you are are fantastic teacher. On the other hand my friend with a degree in Fine Art snapped up a job with no experience and no English teaching qualifications. By his own words he is getting destroyed psychologically in class as he doesn't know how to structure a class or lesson plan but it seems they don't care what degree you have as long as you have one. As a result I'm coaching him in structure, lesson planning and delivery.

Clearly my other friend with CELTA and 5+ years teaching experience has much higher real world value when it comes to providing knowledge but they just don't care here. So what did he do? Moved to Tokyo where they recognize his skill and are paying him exponentially more than he had ever received here and the students are learning with a very good teacher.

[Baerboxer]

It's difficult now. When I was a backpacker I had my CELTA and got a few years of fulltime solid English teaching experience under my belt but no degree at the time. Getting a job anywhere was as easy as turning up and the wages were fantastic particularly in Vietnam. These days I hear that even with CELTA and 5+ years experience it is impossible to LEGALLY get a work permit for English teaching even if you are are fantastic teacher. On the other hand my friend with a degree in Fine Art snapped up a job with no experience and no English teaching qualifications. By his own words he is getting destroyed psychologically in class as he doesn't know how to structure a class or lesson plan but it seems they don't care what degree you have as long as you have one. As a result I'm coaching him in structure, lesson planning and delivery.

Clearly my other friend with CELTA and 5+ years teaching experience has much higher real world value when it comes to providing knowledge but they just don't care here. So what did he do? Moved to Tokyo where they recognize his skill and are paying him exponentially more than he had ever received here and the students are learning with a very good teacher.

Ask yourself how many backpackers, or semi-retried expats, with CELTA, TEOFL or TEFL are actually interested in or have the skills and ability to become a fantastic teacher? Many as you say come here and get destroyed psychologically in class and many also haven't got a clue about what they're supposed to be teaching. Would you want your children in the UK, US, Aussie, EU or where ever taught by people looking to earn a bit of beer money?

[poohy]

Not sure why people always look for exceptions. The rules require a degree and a teachers license, follow the rules and you travel well

I know a school which won't do B-Visa, WP or the TCT's waiver or license. It's a government high school.

There might be all these rules - and then there is the reality. Just like the black economy in Italy for example.

Would you be willing to risk working illegally? Schools pay 10 k fine, but the hapless teacher pays 100 k and gets deported.

A very fair and balanced law (sarcasm).

Re reality ....From personal experience head south about 6/8 hours and from there on a certain percentage of schools/colleges will make local arrangements including housing , no requirements other than a pulse, cash is / was paid at the months end

I am pretty sure this still happens (although budgets from Bangkok have been cut or are ending) however be aware you are probably going to be in the middle of nowhere, but your Thai certainly improves.

[transam]

What use will you be to the kids?

I have been of use to ''teachers'' and I have nooooooooooooooo degree. Thats how useful we can be.

[simon43]

If you do not have the required qualifications, then the most realistic solution is to go and get those qualifications, (and I don't mean buy them from Khao San Road).

To give you an example from my own career, although I have an post-graduate degree, it is not in teaching. For me to obtain employment at an international school requires that I have an MA in Education or a PGCE qualification. So I am in a similar 'boat' to the OP in not having the required piece of paper. I'm solving that issue by studying via distance-learning for that 'piece of paper'. I'm 54 years old, and expect that 'piece of paper' to help me to secure enjoyable employment for the next 10 years at least.

In short - if you want to teach, get the qualifications

Simon

Edited May 17, 2013 by simon43

[inapeartree]

Such a shame Thailand and its neighbours are losing out on so many potentially excellent teachers because of this silly rule. I know many successful men/women that didn't go to college/university, myself included, as it wasn't necessary to get a job and people were employed based on their actual ability, educated doesn't mean intelligent. Now many have retired in Thailand with years of work/life experience with a lot of time on their hands and they are being prevented from helping improve the level of English in Thailand, which is still very poor, just because of a piece of paper!

Obviously if a university wants someone to teach a specialist subject then I can understand it but many teaching positions are for fairly basic English conversation/grammar and the only thing they're interested in is a degree. I recently had dinner with a friend that owns a company in Thailand and he had some PhD students on work experience with him, he was amazed by how little common sense they had and their inability to think outside the box. The level of education in Thailand isn't on a par with the UK, America, Australia either so a high school student from the US is about on the same level as a degree student in Thailand.

[sirchai]

Such a shame Thailand and its neighbours are losing out on so many potentially excellent teachers because of this silly rule. I know many successful men/women that didn't go to college/university, myself included, as it wasn't necessary to get a job and people were employed based on their actual ability, educated doesn't mean intelligent. Now many have retired in Thailand with years of work/life experience with a lot of time on their hands and they are being prevented from helping improve the level of English in Thailand, which is still very poor, just because of a piece of paper!

Obviously if a university wants someone to teach a specialist subject then I can understand it but many teaching positions are for fairly basic English conversation/grammar and the only thing they're interested in is a degree. I recently had dinner with a friend that owns a company in Thailand and he had some PhD students on work experience with him, he was amazed by how little common sense they had and their inability to think outside the box. The level of education in Thailand isn't on a par with the UK, America, Australia either so a high school student from the US is about on the same level as a degree student in Thailand.

It's very easy to be employed as a 'trainer' or a 'teacher's assistant' in the Land of Whys. You'll also bypass all TCT bs .

. All the school has to do is to change the title.It doesn't make any sense when people were already working successfully for many years, taught Thai English teachers, wrote the Thesis for a Thai English teacher's Masters, held seminars for Thai English teachers how to teach English etc.-

Edited May 18, 2013 by sirchai

[happysanook]

What qualifications do you have? Have you ever taught before? Do you have specific qualifications in the French language? Would you be allowed to teach in a school in Belgium or France, with your current experience and qualifications?

If the answers to the questions above are "no" then why do you think Thailand should allow you to teach?

Maybe because it's a 3rd world country, where you can drive 150km an hour piss drunk past a police station where all the cops are sitting around a small table sharing several bottles of whiskey out in the open?