Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[7by7]

A barbaric attack by extremists who no more represent the majority of Muslims than Christian fundamentalists represent the majority of Christians or Zionists represent the majority of Jews.

They are no more Muslim than the IRA were Catholic.

But, it seems that not only have the morons of the EDL fallen into their trap, but several members here have as well!

What trap?

These savages want to stir up feelings against Muslims to such an extent that morons like the EDL attack more and more mosques and then start to attack any and all Muslims. This means that all Muslims in the west start to feel threatened and the extremists convince them to join them and be protected. Protected from hatred which the extremists, with the unwitting help of morons like the EDL, caused.

The vast majority of Muslims are the same as the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. They just want to live in peace with their neighbours, of any or no religion, and get on with their lives.

Don't fall into the extremists trap; don't do their work for them!

ok....so when have u heard of a Christiam, Jews or buddhist decapitae an inocent person in public? how many of the same have ever done anything like 9/11?? I'd agree with you that they are extremists...but extremist in huge numbers...

How about fundamental Christian anti abortionists in the USA?

Assassination of George Tiller in 2009 for example.

See also Christian Terrorism.

[Ulysses G.]

The prevalence of radical Islamic terrorism in so many countries all over the world certainly suggests it.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[simple1]

Transam: There have been many religious leaders in the Islamic world condemning terror attacks, live in peace with your neighbours etc. Most of them do not get any attention in the mainstream media. An article that reviews this and talks to the some of the fatwas speaking out against Islamic terrorism at:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/03/02/tahir-ul-qadri-and-the-difficulty-of-reporting-on-fatwas/

Alternatively Google search "fatwa condemning terrorism"

There are domestic radicalised Islamic extremists & I agree it is likely there will be other attacks as happened in Woolwich. The challenge is how UK and other societies deal with the matter without destroying the principles upon which they are based. Not trying to speak on 7by7’s behalf, but unless I have misunderstood, this is the crux on the matter he is addressing.

Edited May 24, 2013 by simple1

[7by7]

Indeed, simple1.

Hatred breeds hatred; it is what those who commit atrocities such as that in Woolwich bank on.

Unfortunately, so many members here, and I fear in the UK population, have fallen into these murderers hands and are now doing their work for them.

[cmsally]

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=472

The propagation of Wahhabi islam seems to have a lot to do with the problem.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wahhabism-a-deadly-scripture-398516.html

The fact is that the young people (mostly Moslem background) of Europe are seen as worthwhile propaganda targets by those funding and preaching for the hardline islamic movements.

[transam]

Transam: There have been many religious leaders in the Islamic world condemning terror attacks, live in peace with your neighbours etc. Most of them do not get any attention in the mainstream media. An article that reviews this and talks to the some of the fatwas speaking out against Islamic terrorism at:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/03/02/tahir-ul-qadri-and-the-difficulty-of-reporting-on-fatwas/

Alternatively Google search "fatwa condemning terrorism"

There are domestic radicalised Islamic extremists & I agree it is likely there will be other attacks as happened in Woolwich. The challenge is how UK and other societies deal with the matter without destroying the principles upon which they are based. Not trying to speak on 7by7’s behalf, but unless I have misunderstood, this is the crux on the matter he is addressing.

You know the UK is pretty laid back, me, we deal with stuff and dismiss stuff BUT, what has happened here really is a different ball game. One thing the UK populous knows is that it's military does what it is told to do. Noooooo politics, nooooooooooo religion. An unarmed military guy was humiliated by a religious extremist group in front of the world. I feel I can talk for many UK military guys that this religious stuff has now crossed a line in the UK. Nooooooo, I am not a war mongerer but these folk have started something they will not finish in the UK.

[Scott]

A series of off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Please stay on the topic of the OP and engage in a civil discussion.

[Steely Dan]

A barbaric attack by extremists who no more represent the majority of Muslims than Christian fundamentalists represent the majority of Christians or Zionists represent the majority of Jews.

They are no more Muslim than the IRA were Catholic.

But, it seems that not only have the morons of the EDL fallen into their trap, but several members here have as well!

What trap?

These savages want to stir up feelings against Muslims to such an extent that morons like the EDL attack more and more mosques and then start to attack any and all Muslims. This means that all Muslims in the west start to feel threatened and the extremists convince them to join them and be protected. Protected from hatred which the extremists, with the unwitting help of morons like the EDL, caused.

The vast majority of Muslims are the same as the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. They just want to live in peace with their neighbours, of any or no religion, and get on with their lives.

Don't fall into the extremists trap; don't do their work for them!

ok....so when have u heard of a Christiam, Jews or buddhist decapitae an inocent person in public? how many of the same have ever done anything like 9/11?? I'd agree with you that they are extremists...but extremist in huge numbers...

How about fundamental Christian anti abortionists in the USA?

Assassination of George Tiller in 2009 for example.

See also Christian Terrorism.

I'm afraid cherry picking to construct an equivalence argument is just not credible, the numbers are overwhelmingly weighted towards Islamist violence, which typically accounts for 1000 deaths each and every month. For example April. 202 attacks spread across 25 Countries, 957 deaths and that is just a typical month,

[7by7]

There will, unfortunately, be radical extremists who will attempt to justify this atrocity. But what do the majority of Muslims in the UK think of it?

From Reactions to the Woolwich murder

Julie Siddiqi, Islamic Society of Britain
We need to remain calm and people need to remain vigilant.

We need to make sure we don't allow extremists to divide the country. We need to remain calm and measured and get the message out there that we will not allow this to divide us.

It was an attack on all of us, on our country, all of us.

It's very hard for the good people of this country to understand what's going on. How can you say your religion is a religion of peace and then you have a guy literally with blood on his hands and a knife in his hand doing something completely the opposite?

I don't think it matters what is happening in another country in any way whatsoever. This should never have happened. There is no justification.

Ajmal Masroor, an Imam and broadcaster in London

..........These idiots have done this, there is no God in what they've done, it is not done in the name of Islam. It is not done for Muslims, it is just their thuggish low-life scum mindset.

The Muslim Council of Britain, a representative Muslim body
This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the armed forces. Muslims have long served in this country's armed forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the armed forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.

This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions.

From Woolwich murder: Government defends security services

Meanwhile, thousands of members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community are expected to gather in London to offer prayers for the dead soldier and his family and to "express solidarity against extremism".

National president Rafiq Hayat said: "We hope that the perpetrators of this crime, that is based on a twisted and warped ideology, are brought to justice."

[canuckamuck]

7by7 you are an enthusiastic apologist, but will you at least admit the world is facing a crisis (ie. increasing violence commited against innocent people in the name of Islam). And in acknowledging that there is a problem, what would you suggest is the solution

[DeadBite]

A barbaric attack by extremists who no more represent the majority of Muslims than Christian fundamentalists represent the majority of Christians or Zionists represent the majority of Jews.

.....

Don't fall into the extremists trap; don't do their work for them!

[Cantankerous]

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire... Make no mistake, Islam is a contagion spreading its poison across the UK, turn a blind eye & you are part of the problem.

Cameron, Clegg, Milliband are all as bad as each other, playing down the islamic factor of this atrocity. Meeting with "community leaders", & Clegg spouting from the Quran, in an attempt to make Islam appear to be a religion of peace, pathetic.

"It's only a minority group", I hear them say, wrong, that minority will one day soon be the majority. When the likes of Anjem Choudary are permitted to remain on Britains streets, pedaling his diatribe of filth against the UK, then the powers that be have it all wrong.

I also note that in extremely bad taste, the "British High court" came out with a statement today regarding the misconduct of British forces in Iraq. I would suggest that these pompous imbeciles, along with the lawyers for the alleged victims, do sometime in a hostile, stressful, combat environment before passing judgement on anyone...

The government should be ashamed.

[7by7]

7by7 you are an enthusiastic apologist, but will you at least admit the world is facing a crisis (ie. increasing violence commited against innocent people in the name of Islam). And in acknowledging that there is a problem, what would you suggest is the solution

Apologist for what?

If you are saying I am an apologist for terrorists and extremists and murderers then I make the same challenge to you that I made some time ago to transam.

That is, find one comment from me which even suggests that I condone in any way this, or any other, act of murder or terrorism.

Transam hasn't been able to, because there are none; although he wont admit it or apologise for his libel of me.

Will you?

[Ulysses G.]

I'm afraid cherry picking to construct an equivalence argument is just not credible, the numbers are overwhelmingly weighted towards Islamist violence, which typically accounts for 1000 deaths each and every month. For example April. 202 attacks spread across 25 Countries, 957 deaths and that is just a typical month,

Hear, hear!

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[7by7]

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

[7by7]

I'm afraid cherry picking to construct an equivalence argument is just not credible, the numbers are overwhelmingly weighted towards Islamist violence, which typically accounts for 1000 deaths each and every month. For example April. 202 attacks spread across 25 Countries, 957 deaths and that is just a typical month,

Hear hear!

Commenting on atrocities committed by Muslim extremists who do not represent Islam except their own perverted version of it while ignoring the condemnation of same by the overwhelming majority of Muslims, lay people and religious leaders, isn't cherry picking?

[Mosha]

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

What do you call high?

[OzMick]

One of them was a devout christian who converted to radical islam

That would make him doubly stupid.

[geriatrickid]

A barbaric attack by extremists who no more represent the majority of Muslims than Christian fundamentalists represent the majority of Christians or Zionists represent the majority of Jews.

They are no more Muslim than the IRA were Catholic.

But, it seems that not only have the morons of the EDL fallen into their trap, but several members here have as well!

What trap?

These savages want to stir up feelings against Muslims to such an extent that morons like the EDL attack more and more mosques and then start to attack any and all Muslims. This means that all Muslims in the west start to feel threatened and the extremists convince them to join them and be protected. Protected from hatred which the extremists, with the unwitting help of morons like the EDL, caused.

The vast majority of Muslims are the same as the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. They just want to live in peace with their neighbours, of any or no religion, and get on with their lives.

Don't fall into the extremists trap; don't do their work for them!

7by7, I believe your supposition that the vast majority of people on this planet do just want to live in peace is correct, however you are way off base in your statement that compares these gutless radical muslims that try and hide behind the skirt of Islam to the IRA and the Catholic Church! I do not recall any IRA member ever invoking the Catholic Church as a reason for any of the extreme measures that they took, in fact quite the opposite, most of them went out of their way to distance themselves from the Church. The IRA came about as a result of the generations upon generations of oppression by the British. The Brits were the ones prejudice against the Irish Catholics, the IRA was just an offshoot of an oppressed people not willing to stand and take it any longer, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic Church. Next time give a little more thought with you comparisons Erin go bragh!

In the late 1960's the genuine grievances of the Catholic community in Northern Ireland were used as an excuse by the IRA, or more accurately the PIRA, to start what became known as the Troubles.

Hence my comment.

But this is not a thread about Ireland and the troubles the people of that island have endured.

And yet despite some horrific decades and enough injustice and bloodshed to go around ,the Irish, Northern Irish and English, the implicated parties, have managed to make peace. Although there are some infrequent incidents, everyone condemns those acts of violence and those that preach violence. Aside from the fact that the "troubles" are not comparable to jihadist terror activity, your attempt to compare Islamic related terrorism on UK soil falls flat, because you ignore the fact that the Irish question is now being dealt with in a peaceful manner. There is more work to be done, but people have moved beyond the violence. This transition took approximately 30 years. Something is definitely wrong with a culture that cannot move beyond violence after 1000 years.

[canuckamuck]

7by7 you are an enthusiastic apologist, but will you at least admit the world is facing a crisis (ie. increasing violence commited against innocent people in the name of Islam). And in acknowledging that there is a problem, what would you suggest is the solution

Apologist for what?

If you are saying I am an apologist for terrorists and extremists and murderers then I make the same challenge to you that I made some time ago to transam.

That is, find one comment from me which even suggests that I condone in any way this, or any other, act of murder or terrorism.

Transam hasn't been able to, because there are none; although he wont admit it or apologise for his libel of me.

Will you?

An apologist for Islam as a peace loving religion of course.

Do you see a problem or not? What is the solution?

[7by7]

Mosha; in the borough as a whole, 7.38%

But in the town centre part, where I live, 37%; more than Christians at 34%.

[Ulysses G.]

7by7 you are an enthusiastic apologist

Post 447 by Geriatrickid explained it well. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641495-woolwich-attack-soldier-beheaded-by-ranting-fanatics-on-busy-london-street/?p=6434451

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[7by7]

canuckamuck;

Islam is a peace loving religion, as much as Christianity.

I am not a statesman, I cannot offer a solution to extremism and terrorism, no matter what it's cause or who are it's perpetrators.

This thread shows that ignorance and prejudice are rampant on both sides; despite the efforts of people of peace. While that ignorance and prejudice prevails, I see no solution.

geriatrickid;

You've missed my point. But if you think the problems in Ireland are solved, let alone solved after a mere 30 years, you have no idea about Irish history!

But that is not the topic of this thread; if you wish to discuss Irish history further with me I will be happy to do so via PM.

[geriatrickid]

Transam: There have been many religious leaders in the Islamic world condemning terror attacks, live in peace with your neighbours etc. Most of them do not get any attention in the mainstream media. An article that reviews this and talks to the some of the fatwas speaking out against Islamic terrorism at:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/03/02/tahir-ul-qadri-and-the-difficulty-of-reporting-on-fatwas/

Alternatively Google search "fatwa condemning terrorism"

There are domestic radicalised Islamic extremists & I agree it is likely there will be other attacks as happened in Woolwich. The challenge is how UK and other societies deal with the matter without destroying the principles upon which they are based. Not trying to speak on 7by7’s behalf, but unless I have misunderstood, this is the crux on the matter he is addressing.

Unfortunately, these folks do not condemn the religious leaders that preach hatred. These religious leaders are greeted as brother and a kiss on the cheek.

Raw sewage causes disease. It is nice to condemn the open sewers that spread the sewage, but if no specific action is taken to stop the dumping of the raw sewage, the problem continues. That's the problem. The muslim community leadership refuses to take any action against these preachers. It is even more disgusting that the mosques where these people preach benefit from charitable status.

Edited May 24, 2013 by geriatrickid

[Cantankerous]

Mosha; in the borough as a whole, 7.38%

But in the town centre part, where I live, 37%; more than Christians at 34%.

7% of the population of Woking is hardly overrun...

[Chittychangchang]

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

What do you call high?

High is where you have groups of Muslim males driving round in cars plying schoolgirls with vodka and drug.

High is where they traffic schoolgirls and rent them out to other muslims around the country.

High is where you walk down the high street and you are the odd one out for being white.

High is where there is no integration.

High is pretty much in every City in the U.K.

High is where you'll see the Left wingers selling their rag the socialist worker systematically lobbying and destroying the country that was once ours.

No wonder 100,000 Brits leave the U.K every year for pastures new!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

[geriatrickid]

canuckamuck;

Islam is a peace loving religion, as much as Christianity.

I am not a statesman, I cannot offer a solution to extremism and terrorism, no matter what it's cause or who are it's perpetrators.

This thread shows that ignorance and prejudice are rampant on both sides; despite the efforts of people of peace. While that ignorance and prejudice prevails, I see no solution.

geriatrickid;

You've missed my point. But if you think the problems in Ireland are solved, let alone solved after a mere 30 years, you have no idea about Irish history!

But that is not the topic of this thread; if you wish to discuss Irish history further with me I will be happy to do so via PM.

I did not say the problems were solved. Rather, I pointed out that people with opposing views were able to talk out the issues and make progress to a peaceful resolution on a weighty problem. This has been accomplished in a period of time that is much less than the period of time in which the jihadis have sought to conquer the west.

The fact of the matter is that as much as people want to offer up excuses such as British foreign policy, the terror attacks are in large part driven by the core desire of a large number of muslims to restore the Caliphate and to impose their religion on non believers. It is an unpleasant issue, that sooner or later people are going to have to stop denying.

[canuckamuck]

canuckamuck;

Islam is a peace loving religion, as much as Christianity.

I am not a statesman, I cannot offer a solution to extremism and terrorism, no matter what it's cause or who are it's perpetrators.

This thread shows that ignorance and prejudice are rampant on both sides; despite the efforts of people of peace. While that ignorance and prejudice prevails, I see no solution.

geriatrickid;

You've missed my point. But if you think the problems in Ireland are solved, let alone solved after a mere 30 years, you have no idea about Irish history!

But that is not the topic of this thread; if you wish to discuss Irish history further with me I will be happy to do so via PM.

Yes you have no solutions and nothing valuable to contribute. You seem to be of the opinion that we should just let things play out. Sadly, you will likely get your wish.

[yogi100]

These animals should be shown no bloody mercy at all. Enough with all this liberal crap about being more 'understanding' about their quirky religion.

You are generalising too much about liberals !

I call myself a liberal and I am all the way against religious fascists. And, I think that the death penalty is too good for terrorists. They should be given a life sentence with no chance of parole at all, and with at least 23 hours of every day to be spent inside a small cell.

Having said all that, I am also all the way against the nationalist/ethnicist fascists and nutjobs like EDL (of Britain), BNP (of Britain), Front Nationale (of France) and Hrisi Avgi (of Greece); just to name a few.

You're a liberal who believes that terrorists should be dealt with harshly or so you say although not in those actual words.

None of those that were associated or sympathised with the 7.7 bombers were ever deported and radical Imans are allowed to preach their hatred on OUR streets

In the UK our govt treats these people with kid gloves until and even after they commit an atrocity so the people are going to turn to those that will do as you suggest ie the BNP and FN. We do not wish to pay for their keep in prison for a day let alone their lifetime! Who do you suggest we support.