Old Condo Blocks - What If Anything Are You Entitled To If/when The Building Is Declared Unsafe/fit?

[bangkokburning]

So you buy an old condo and keep it twenty years.

The owner of the land wants to sell it from under you and sell it - or demo it and build a new condo or mall.

A majority of owners want to sell their condos 51%

The goverment finds structural problems in the building and declares it unfit.

Government excercises emminent domain - new bts rail going in

As a freehold owner, do you also own a claim to the property? As a farang?

Presume if you are leasehold, you are just screwed.

Thanks!

[bbradsby]

The Condo Association/Juristic Person owns the land, as its part of the common area shared by all condo owners, along with in-building public areas such as corridors, lobbies, parking structure, etc. YOu, as a part of the Juristic Person, own a portion of the land, so no external "seller" exists.

My concern with the older condos here is that the life cycle is coming up on some of these, and if declared unsafe and a risk to neighboring properties, the owners could be forced to pay the cost of safe demolition & disposal of their building. That obviously would not be fun.

[bangkokburning]

Wow, insightful flip on things. People would not be willing to pay for this. Insult to lose the condo, injury to pay for it. So tje land would go up for sale - perhaps to the company building the next condo.

If a person were wearing a tinfoil hat he might even wonder if external pressures could be brought to bear to declare unsafe.

There is still a ton of land, even in central Bangkok, still, with non stop building, it is an interesting perspective.

It does stand to reason that the Juristic Person would be on the hook for the demo

So if the building is condemned, would each condo owner recv a % of value of land say according tonsqm of their flats?

Is this uncharted territory for Thai and muncipal law?

[Jingthing]

This is interesting to me. I own a condo with an obviously limited life span but it's on a large piece of very valuable land. Chance of getting rich?!?

[enjoybeing]

This is interesting to me. I own a condo with an obviously limited life span but it's on a large piece of very valuable land. Chance of getting rich?!?

Who knows but my guess would be with the footprint of the condo, divided by all the vertical tenants, most would likely end up with about 10 Sq. meters "IF" they doled out any land or deed representing... I'd guess it's hardly enough for one to get rich if even make $$. My guess would be they'd charge the Condo owner for the Demo and if they want something rebuilt, they'd charge them for that too.

Edited May 26, 2013 by enjoybeing

[Jingthing]

What are the voting rules for something like this?

For example suppose a major mall developer is eyeing some land which contains an older but still functioning condo.

Could they make an offer to the condo juristic person?

If so, how would acceptance or rejection be determined?

[Delight]

CIRCUMSTANCE

1) the co-owners pass an unanimous resolution to dissolve the private, commonly-owned housing

2) when the private, commonly-owned housing is completely damaged and the co-owners pass the resolution not to reconstruct the building;

3) the building in the entirety is appropriated by law on immo­vable property appropriation

ACTION with 1 and 2 With votes obtained then the JPM proceeds to dissolve the J . P.

Action with 3 The government revokes the J .P status

and then :-

The co –owners appoint an auditor to sell the land. The auditor sells the asset. Nett monies are divided up proportional to original condo sizes.

[Jingthing]

unanimous?

Hard to imagine!

[bbradsby]

 

CIRCUMSTANCE

1) the co-owners pass an unanimous resolution to dissolve the private, commonly-owned housing

2) when the private, commonly-owned housing is completely damaged and the co-owners pass the resolution not to reconstruct the building;

3) the building in the entirety is appropriated by law on immo­vable property appropriation

ACTION with 1 and 2 With votes obtained then the JPM proceeds to dissolve the J . P.

Action with 3 The government revokes the J .P status

and then :-

The co –owners appoint an auditor to sell the land. The auditor sells the asset. Nett monies are divided up proportional to original condo sizes.

 

...or... nett liabilities for demolition & disposal costs distributed to the individual condo owners. depends on scale of the project, but it could get ugly.

What makes me think about these crazy things is looking year after year at the remaining skeletons of structures still discracing the Bangkok skyline from the 1997/8 Somtam meltdown. The rebar is rusting from acid rain getting inside the porous concrete, and at some point these'll become unstable. At three stories, no biggie. At twenty stories, it becomes a public safety hazard that the current owners are obviously not interested in covering the costs of abatement.

Only public action will solve these, with liens to back-charge the owners for expenses and taking the property if they can't/won't pay the cost. The reality is, however, that the owner is an LLP or LLC for that property only, so their only asset is the property & building. So no moneys will ever flow from them to cover the costs of cleaning up their mess. It'll be a public expense.

For condo owners of a failed structure, my guess is they'll not be so well insulated from financial liabilities since they're not LLCs, etc. All of their assets would be open to taking. Any legal eagles want to take a crack at this one?

[rgs2001uk]

 

CIRCUMSTANCE

1) the co-owners pass an unanimous resolution to dissolve the private, commonly-owned housing

2) when the private, commonly-owned housing is completely damaged and the co-owners pass the resolution not to reconstruct the building;

3) the building in the entirety is appropriated by law on immo­vable property appropriation

ACTION with 1 and 2 With votes obtained then the JPM proceeds to dissolve the J . P.

Action with 3 The government revokes the J .P status

and then :-

The co –owners appoint an auditor to sell the land. The auditor sells the asset. Nett monies are divided up proportional to original condo sizes.

 

...or... nett liabilities for demolition & disposal costs distributed to the individual condo owners. depends on scale of the project, but it could get ugly.

What makes me think about these crazy things is looking year after year at the remaining skeletons of structures still discracing the Bangkok skyline from the 1997/8 Somtam meltdown. The rebar is rusting from acid rain getting inside the porous concrete, and at some point these'll become unstable. At three stories, no biggie. At twenty stories, it becomes a public safety hazard that the current owners are obviously not interested in covering the costs of abatement.

Only public action will solve these, with liens to back-charge the owners for expenses and taking the property if they can't/won't pay the cost. The reality is, however, that the owner is an LLP or LLC for that property only, so their only asset is the property & building. So no moneys will ever flow from them to cover the costs of cleaning up their mess. It'll be a public expense.

For condo owners of a failed structure, my guess is they'll not be so well insulated from financial liabilities since they're not LLCs, etc. All of their assets would be open to taking. Any legal eagles want to take a crack at this one?

with liens to back-charge the owners for expenses and taking the property if they can't/won't pay the cost.

Thats assuming the condo actually owns the land its sited on.

You may well have a situation where the landowner isnt the building owner.

I seem to remember reading a few years ago that some of these "companies" were registered in places like Singapore, other with a better memory will no doubt chime in with the legal aspects.

Another thought not mentioned, wait until the condo owners are presented with a tax bill to pay for the profits made on the land purchase and sale price, there will no doubt be "administrative" charges as well.