Boy Scouts To Allow Openly Gay Scouts

[onthemoon]

I don't see what the problem is. Baden Powell was a homosexual paedophile and the movement has continued his perversion to this day. Why not bring it out into the open and let parents know what their kids are exposed to?

I only know about BP what I learned in this thread (including following links).

That does not make the Boyscout Movement a pedophile organisation, it's nonsense to say that.

Take a look at this link. If you Google 'scoutmaster abuses boy' you will find more cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases

No doubt you'll find cases. Replace "scoutmaster" with "catholic priest", "school teacher" or even "republican politician", you will find cases. None of these organisations are pedophile organisations, though.

[onthemoon]

I'm normally happy for things to proceed at a leisurely pace and to sort themselves out over time but the BSA decision is cruel and dishonest. It's saying to young gay scouts that it's ok to be gay until you reach an age where you can be trusted to accept a little responsibility for others. As soon as you reach that age you're no longer trusted.

I don't think it will work this way though. If adolescent gays are allowed to be themselves, they won't agree to go into hiding afterwards. I do agree that what the US BSA did was a first and important step, and when the current adolescents grow up, the next step will follow. Edited May 31, 2013 by onthemoon

[onthemoon]

There is no Gay Ban in Taiwan on Boy Scouts

Young or Old, or Ancient

As far as I know.

I don't think Taiwan (as a country) recognises that there is something like people being gay. That might be the reason.

I might be wrong though. May I ask whether it is OK in the Taiwan Boy Scouts organisation to be openly gay? Do you have any evidence or examples?

[sustento]

There is no Gay Ban in Taiwan on Boy Scouts

Young or Old, or Ancient

As far as I know.

I don't think Taiwan (as a country) recognises that there is something like people being gay. That might be the reason.

I might be wrong though. May I ask whether it is OK in the Taiwan Boy Scouts organisation to be openly gay? Do you have any evidence or examples?

Taiwan is fairly gay friendly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Taiwan

[onthemoon]

There is no Gay Ban in Taiwan on Boy Scouts

Young or Old, or Ancient

As far as I know.

I don't think Taiwan (as a country) recognises that there is something like people being gay. That might be the reason.

I might be wrong though. May I ask whether it is OK in the Taiwan Boy Scouts organisation to be openly gay? Do you have any evidence or examples?

Taiwan is fairly gay friendly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Taiwan

Wow, I left Taiwan in 2002, apparently one day too early - and never really followed up on the development. The biggest problem at the time was the societal taboo (briefly mentioned in the article), as we gave shelter to friends who had been thrown out of their family because they were gay. To a Taiwanese (at the time), the family was the most important social unit, so it was devastating to them.

[Scott]

There actually is a thread about being gay in China, and from a societal point of view I would guess that it is fairly similar to Taiwan, but how the gov'ts deal with might be quite different:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/633054-being-gay-in-china/#entry6407743

[sustento]

The Taiwanese PBS made a TV series called 'Crystal Boys' set in the 70s(?) about a guy kicked out of the family home. It was based on a gay guy being kicked out of his home. Unfortunately it's never been available dubbed in English.

[Jingthing]

The Taiwanese PBS made a TV series called 'Crystal Boys' set in the 70s(?) about a guy kicked out of the family home. It was based on a gay guy being kicked out of his home. Unfortunately it's never been available dubbed in English.

(etc.)

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

I have the whole series. It makes sense if you read the book first to get the storyline.

http://1stgay.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/nie-zi-outcasts-1986.html

[sustento]

The Taiwanese PBS made a TV series called 'Crystal Boys' set in the 70s(?) about a guy kicked out of the family home. It was based on a gay guy being kicked out of his home. Unfortunately it's never been available dubbed in English.

(etc.)

Someone's got up to episode 4 then. The last I looked two episodes had been subbed. Unfortunately there are 21 episodes altogether.

[Scott]

Further off-topic comments are going to be deleted. The Taiwan & China slant is very interesting, but either needs to be in the thread on China or else posted in a new thread about Taiwan. It's worth having, but not here.

Thanks.

[lannarebirth]

An openly gay scout leader is probably MUCH less dangerous than a closeted one. I was in Scouts for many, many years and all I can tell you is that there was an awful lot of sexual experimentation that was going on between scouts.

I was in the Boy Scouts many years ago too and I NEVER saw or heard about any sexual experimentation going on between boys. I have seen on other message boards this claim from other gay posters but I have NEVER heard a non gay person say that they were experimenting sexually with other boys while they were in the scouts. I'm sure you're aware that would be conduct unbecoming of a Boy Scout. I hope you've learned a bit more propriety since you're now involved in teaching children.

[lannarebirth]

The gay scout thing will not go down well I predict. It will either be like the destruction of the YWCA by lesbians, which became an organization run by lesbians for lesbians, which ironically helped saved the YMCA when girls deserted the YWCA and joined the YMCA displacing some of the long held gay hold on that organization. Or it will foster some ugly breakaway group which might be like a right wing form of scouts, which would be a real shame.

Edited June 18, 2013 by lannarebirth

[Scott]

An openly gay scout leader is probably MUCH less dangerous than a closeted one. I was in Scouts for many, many years and all I can tell you is that there was an awful lot of sexual experimentation that was going on between scouts.

I was in the Boy Scouts many years ago too and I NEVER saw or heard about any sexual experimentation going on between boys. I have seen on other message boards this claim from other gay posters but I have NEVER heard a non gay person say that they were experimenting sexually with other boys while they were in the scouts. I'm sure you're aware that would be conduct unbecoming of a Boy Scout. I hope you've learned a bit more propriety since you're now involved in teaching children.

You seem to have a lot of assumptions going on.

I think I will ignore a lecture from someone who is a bit too far on the homophobic side for my tastes. First of all, because you NEVER saw or heard about it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Second, I don't teach children and finally I hardly need instruction from you on propriety, since I have done nothing improper.

[lannarebirth]

An openly gay scout leader is probably MUCH less dangerous than a closeted one. I was in Scouts for many, many years and all I can tell you is that there was an awful lot of sexual experimentation that was going on between scouts.

I was in the Boy Scouts many years ago too and I NEVER saw or heard about any sexual experimentation going on between boys. I have seen on other message boards this claim from other gay posters but I have NEVER heard a non gay person say that they were experimenting sexually with other boys while they were in the scouts. I'm sure you're aware that would be conduct unbecoming of a Boy Scout. I hope you've learned a bit more propriety since you're now involved in teaching children.

You seem to have a lot of assumptions going on.

I think I will ignore a lecture from someone who is a bit too far on the homophobic side for my tastes. First of all, because you NEVER saw or heard about it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Second, I don't teach children and finally I hardly need instruction from you on propriety, since I have done nothing improper.

Not sure what you think I assumed. I know you're not a teacher. I think you've mentioned that you work at a school in some administrative capacity But you know, rules are there for a reason.

And I'm not homophopic, not in the least. I don't care if there are gay kids in scouting. There certainly were in my day and I don't see any reason at all that there shouldn't be now. What's changed however is that a sexual component, which never existed before has now been introduced to scouting. It's always been a non-sexual grouping and THAT's what's going to ruin it. Like it did the YWCA permanently and the YMCA for a time. I'm trying to imagine if a sexual component got introduced to my wife's garden club, how that would be. No, it's better there be no sexual aspect at all.

As far as what I knew, I knew most everything that went on, as I was the highest ranking member of my troop for 2 years of the 4 years I was in scouting and held every leadership role.

[Scott]

Thanks for the explanation and I tend to agree with you. I think it is the adults that make the fuss about sexual matters. Kids will be kids.

[allalong]

Here's a link about Baden-Powell, that may shed some light on his proclivities:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/scoutings-gay-founder.html?_r=0

on an opinion page in the NYT ,garbage , lucky you can slander the dead without fear of litigation

[LeCharivari]

It's horrible news! They've kept the ban on gay adults as leaders. What an immoral message for the youth. It's OK to be a gay boy but once you grow up we think you're a pervert and not fit to be near children. This will not stand.

I’ve got to agree with you 100% - of all the options they had this was the worst (other than keeping gay boys out but letting gay adults in, which was probably not on the table).

They’ve managed to upset everybody and please nobody:

The gay lobby, since whatever your take on it they’ve said that there’s something very wrong with being a gay adult. Whether that’s because “it's OK to be a gay boy but once you grow up we think you're a pervert and not fit to be near children” or because they think that boys are just “experimenting” while adults are actually “gay” is unclear, as the only explanation from Tico Perez, BSA national commissioner, was "This resolution today dealt with youth. We have not changed our adult membership standards. They have served us well for the last 100 years. Those were not on the table" . Totally unacceptable.

The anti-gay lobby, since they’ve not made any extra regulations or guidelines and in practice they’re clearly going to let in openly gay Scout leaders as well, as they haven’t taken any action against those already marching in a Gay Pride parade.

The silent majority who just want to be Scouts, or their children to be Scouts, who could at least have expected them to follow the guidelines that other groups such as the Girl Scouts have put in place very successfully, even if generally they aren’t necessary.

The sponsors, some of whom have withdrawn their sponsorship because the decision was discriminatory and based on homophobia rather than religion, while some have withdrawn it because it was not homophobic enough.

So much for “Be Prepared”.

[LeCharivari]

The gay scout thing will not go down well I predict. It will either be like the destruction of the YWCA by lesbians, which became an organization run by lesbians for lesbians, which ironically helped saved the YMCA when girls deserted the YWCA and joined the YMCA displacing some of the long held gay hold on that organization. Or it will foster some ugly breakaway group which might be like a right wing form of scouts, which would be a real shame.

It already has, on both counts.

Boy Scouts, a cub scout and adult scout leaders have already taken the change in rules as approval to march in Scout uniform in a Gay Pride parade in Utah, with no action being taken against them by the BSA ( http://http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/02/18699493-boy-scouts-defy-orders-wear-uniforms-in-utah-gay-pride-parade?lite )

A number of scouts and scout leaders have already left ( http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/30/18633729-after-vote-allowing-gay-kids-to-become-boy-scouts-some-families-call-it-quits?lite ), and some churches have condemned the decision and are already forming rival groups to the BSA ( http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/9/boy-scouts-decision-on-gays-tests-loyalty-of-membe/?page=all ), and some mainstream sponsors such as Caterpillar, which is very much a “middle America” company, have already withdrawn their sponsorship because the BSA has changed its policy from one which was discriminatory on religious grounds to one which is openly homophobic.