Monks And Money

[loong]

My brother-in-law is a monk.

I don't understand how he always seems to have money to play the lottery every month. Monks don't have an income do they?

Yesterday he gave my Missus 14,000 Bt to put in his daughter's bank account.

I know that this money didn't come from a lottery win, because he always gets my missus to buy the tickets.

From what I see month after month, he seems to have a monthly income of about 15,000 Bt. When I say an income, I mean a spare income, because he has no housing, utilities or food costs.

How can that be?

Monks don't get paid a salary, do they?

[arthurwait]

Yeah it's a mystery..

Edited May 26, 2013 by arthurwait

[BookMan]

Even when he doesn't win the lottery he must be very lucky

[pattayadingo]

It's surprising how much money monks do have. They get a lot of 'donations' when attending so many ceremonies.

[swissie]

According to my Thai-Neighbors: There are traditional Thai-Temples and "Business-Temples". As to "why and how come" was explained to me, but to quote this here would clearly violate forum rules.

Unfortunately.

Cheers.

[yourauntbob]

Many religious figures from just about every religion tend to do pretty well

[rubberduck]

How much does a local pay to have a new house blessed ?

How much does a local pay to have a new business blessed ?

How much does a local pay to have a new marriage blessed ?

How much does a local pay to have a new car blessed ?

How much does a local pay to have a new motorbike blessed ?

But it doesn't have any effect and they know it, it's just smart monk(ey)business, and they making a whole lot of money with their 'blessings'

[sms747]

monks are not allowed to gamble, Thai monks have become so corrupt. we paid 5k for a house blessing, much more than I wanted but they think it's making merit, utter <deleted>,

Edited May 26, 2013 by sms747

[Gsxrnz]

Seen more than one monk lined up at the ATM, sporting a pair of what appear to be designer spectacles and carrying the latest iphone. But Thailand isn't unique in that regard. The religious business in most parts of the world tends to do pretty well - pity you can't buy shares in it.

Geez now I'm beginning to think there's a business opportunity there.....?

[edwinchester]

Most religions seem to be business first to me.

One of my wifes lady friends loans out money at 3% a month. She gets the money to lend out from the head monk at her local temple.

People in the village are borrowing the same money they have donated to the temple and paying for the priviledge!

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[swissie]

Throughout the past centuries: The clergy (no matter what religion), has never gone hungry. The only ones gone hungry were their followers.

Amazingly enough, they still have followers up to this very day.

Cheers.

[pistachios]

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

[muythai2013]

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

what luxury Items do they wear, do they have something under the robe i'm not aware of, and loan sharking is new to me.

Monks do eat meat, The fact that you state this shows you are unaware of the rules as the eating of meat is allowed.

Monks are allowed to smoke, The rules as I read them when I was a monk years ago were all drugs are prohibited that (alter your mind state).

money is given when the morning rounds are made, some give food some money, It is also given often during the day.

some things can be purchased, smokes but not much else so being that the money cannot be kept it's past on to family members.

Show me where Theravada Buddhism states you cannot eat meat or smoke please, I smoked In the temple as does my brother in law a long serving monk and Buddhist Author and almost every monk in the temple smoked.

Never saw gambling or loan sharking in my time, If so I would not doubt it but that would be a reflection on the monk not the Religion.

Edited May 26, 2013 by muythai2013

[NeverSure]

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

"...especially having sex is a big NO."

Hmmmm

[pistachios]

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

what luxury Items do they wear, do they have something under the robe i'm not aware of, and loan sharking is new to me.

Monks do eat meat, The fact that you state this shows you are unaware of the rules as the eating of meat is allowed.

Monks are allowed to smoke, The rules as I read them when I was a monk years ago were all drugs are prohibited that (alter your mind state).

money is given when the morning rounds are made, some give food some money, It is also given often during the day.

some things can be purchased, smokes but not much else so being that the money cannot be kept it's past on to family members.

Show me where Theravada Buddhism states you cannot eat meat or smoke please, I smoked In the temple as does my brother in law a long serving monk and Buddhist Author and almost every monk in the temple smoked.

Never saw gambling or loan sharking in my time, If so I would not doubt it but that would be a reflection on the monk not the Religion.

I honestly only had a vague idea about what was required to be a monk, I didn't pretend to know the subject. Actually I think I idealised buddhist monkhood too much... but maybe it's just thailand.

For the luxury items, i never saw that myself earlier in the topic someone mentioned it. I'm guessing it must have been a "temporary" monk but who knows?

For the meat, yes i see that there is a loophole in the rules and that you can eat meat if the animal wasn't specifically killed for the monk.

For the smoke, apparently you can indeed, but apparently only before noon if I read correctly. Why smoking is allowed while it is highly addictive and very unhealthy, I don't know!

For the money, I thought that monks shared all the the food and money received during their rounds, and that the rest was going to fix the roof or something. I certainly didn't know excess offerings were sent to the monks families. OPs is stating 15000 bath as a monthly income, that's quite a lot if true!

The gambling reference comes from a news story on thai tv one or two year ago. A monk used to gamble huge amounts regularly with the lottery and he won the jackpot, but the person who used to help him manage the tickets tried to screw him. My girlfriend was more shocked that someone tried to scam a monk than that a monk could affort to pay 10s of thousand bahts per month in lottery tickets. That's why I said it was acceptable... same as a monk getting paid to help someone find the good lottery numbers.

Loan shark comes from earlier in the topic where a monk loans the temple's money at outrageous rates!

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

"...especially having sex is a big NO."

Hmmmm

Was reffering to a news story about a monk caught in the act with 2 prostitutes and some ice. My gf was mortified by the story, so much more than by the gambling addict monk.

[slapout]

My question has been, why do the temples not give money to those in medical/monetary need, those affected by natural disasters, etc. The monks seem to use money to live quite well themselves, with some real nice gagets and even transport, and the bank accounts of family seem to get topped up on a regular basis.

I have visited some remote, small village temples, which do seem to give back to the local people on a need basis, these are the ones I will support in my small ways, but they appear few and far between.

[Big Gary]

Saw an old Monk getting a new sterio/video system fitted into his (or the wats) NEW Vigo. Also getting body trims for it also. When it came time to pay he pulled out huge wads of money from his bag. He had mega thousands in there. And to put icing on the cake he made a phone call from his Galaxy2 phone. I cant afford one of them so how can he?????. He didnt drive the Vigo as he had a driver. The Monk did all the supervising of the items fitted onto the Vigo as well.

[pistachios]

Saw an old Monk getting a new sterio/video system fitted into his (or the wats) NEW Vigo. Also getting body trims for it also. When it came time to pay he pulled out huge wads of money from his bag. He had mega thousands in there. And to put icing on the cake he made a phone call from his Galaxy2 phone. I cant afford one of them so how can he?????. He didnt drive the Vigo as he had a driver. The Monk did all the supervising of the items fitted onto the Vigo as well.

T.V.'s and videos for entertainment should not be used by a monk. Under certain circumstances, a Dharma video or a documentary programme may be watched. In general, luxurious items are inappropriate for a monk to accept. This is because they are conducive to attachment in his own mind, and excite envy, possibly even the intention to steal, in the mind of another person. This is unwholesome Kamma. It also looks bad for an alms mendicant, living on charity as a source of inspiration to others, to have luxurious belongings. One who is content with little should be a light to a world where consumer instincts and greed are whipped up in people's minds.

Although the Vinaya specifies a prohibition on accepting and handling gold and silver, the real spirit of it is to forbid use and control over funds, whether these are bank notes or credit cards. The Vinaya even prohibits a monk from having someone else receive money on his behalf.

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhistworld/layguide.htm

[muythai2013]

we had phones and laptops, part of modern society, they were use for a purpose obviously, not to just hold in your hand and look pretty.

As for giving, temples do give money and services to charity, who was cleaning up the floods.

[sustento]

I'm curious as to why all you folks are getting all discombobulated about a religion that it appears most of you don't follow? If you are interested in Buddhism the Buddha's final words might interest you:

"Work out YOUR OWN salvation. Do not depend on others"

Or if you've been brought up in a Christian country:

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

[Kitsune]

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

You forgot

- Litter

- Take old folk's seat on public transport, even when the monk is barely 20 yo

Under the "not acceptable but happens" includes Kill dog with axe

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/15609/monk-kills-dog-with-axe

[muythai2013]

try running temples without money, of coarse money is involved.

Of coarse there are monks who are not up to scratch, however monks are on a journey and you don't reach your destination the day you walk through the temple door.

Same are there still with no religious intention, That to is not a reflection on the religion only on the character of that individual.

When I was in The Temple it would not have mattered if every monk around me or in fact every monk on earth turned completely evil, I'm on my journey not theirs and if they all falter it's not Buddhas fault.

The fact fact that many are doing wrong would indicate how far they have to go and that is the point of Buddhism, The journey and the final destination, everyone is assuming because one is a monk he has arrived.

Far from it, we would not be here living this life at all if we had arrived we would have not been reborn at all and would now be in Heaven, every monk is at a different stage, each and every one.

They are teachers of Buddhism to the lay people but the monks are still students themselves and should not be judged by people who are doing less themselves to make themselves right.

[Chao Lao Beach]

I didn't know monks got paid, I naively thought the donations were for the temple and not the personal pockets of its monks...

Based on my observations, the reactions of my girlfriend to some news involving monks, and now this forum, I learned since I arrived in Thailand that it's perfectly acceptable for a monk to

- own (a lot) of wealth

- gamble (sometimes huge amounts)

- smoke

- own and wear luxury items

- become a loan shark

- eat meat and sea food

- ?

On the other hand, using another drug than cigarettes and especially having sex is a big NO. Amazing thailand.

Some monks like whisky as well and like lots of it. I have had many a huge monk nights with Pink Floyd pumping in my last house.

I think it is fair to say, it is up to the individual. Anyway, many are crimes who are avoiding court by be protected by the monkhood.

But as a general comment, I feel the vast majority have good intentions.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[anon210]

try running temples without money, of coarse money is involved.

Of coarse there are monks who are not up to scratch, however monks are on a journey and you don't reach your destination the day you walk through the temple door.

Same are there still with no religious intention, That to is not a reflection on the religion only on the character of that individual.

When I was in The Temple it would not have mattered if every monk around me or in fact every monk on earth turned completely evil, I'm on my journey not theirs and if they all falter it's not Buddhas fault.

The fact fact that many are doing wrong would indicate how far they have to go and that is the point of Buddhism, The journey and the final destination, everyone is assuming because one is a monk he has arrived.

Far from it, we would not be here living this life at all if we had arrived we would have not been reborn at all and would now be in Heaven, every monk is at a different stage, each and every one.

They are teachers of Buddhism to the lay people but the monks are still students themselves and should not be judged by people who are doing less themselves to make themselves right.

It is incredible then how many of these monks lose their way on this so-called "journey". Maybe it is a career for lazy people, just like the police?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DiNiro]

According to my Thai-Neighbors: There are traditional Thai-Temples and "Business-Temples". As to "why and how come" was explained to me, but to quote this here would clearly violate forum rules.

Unfortunately.

Cheers.

Some Temples and Monks are fronts for unscrupulous business activities.

They are untouchable, know it and exploit their position.

Imagine that.

[muythai2013]

try running temples without money, of coarse money is involved.

Of coarse there are monks who are not up to scratch, however monks are on a journey and you don't reach your destination the day you walk through the temple door.

Same are there still with no religious intention, That to is not a reflection on the religion only on the character of that individual.

When I was in The Temple it would not have mattered if every monk around me or in fact every monk on earth turned completely evil, I'm on my journey not theirs and if they all falter it's not Buddhas fault.

The fact fact that many are doing wrong would indicate how far they have to go and that is the point of Buddhism, The journey and the final destination, everyone is assuming because one is a monk he has arrived.

Far from it, we would not be here living this life at all if we had arrived we would have not been reborn at all and would now be in Heaven, every monk is at a different stage, each and every one.

They are teachers of Buddhism to the lay people but the monks are still students themselves and should not be judged by people who are doing less themselves to make themselves right.

It is incredible then how many of these monks lose their way on this so-called "journey". Maybe it is a career for lazy people, just like the police?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes that must be it, every monk is bad.

[muythai2013]

With all the negativity, some is of coarse warranted however should not be pointed at all monks and temples.

How many people making these comments truly understand the teachings of the religion at all, and the workings of the temple and the life of a monk.

How many can say they really do in all honestly know a great deal about it other then the odd thing they have seen in passing a misguided monk.

[meatboy]

been stopped 3 times leaving the service's on the slip roads by monks asking for money,

the last time the wf.gave one a 100bht.only for him to ask for 300,got a reply from me and the wf.he would have known what we said if he understood english.the last time they came to the gate at home they asked for money to buy an umberella.

[Kitsune]

I'm curious as to why all you folks are getting all discombobulated about a religion that it appears most of you don't follow? If you are interested in Buddhism the Buddha's final words might interest you:

"Work out YOUR OWN salvation. Do not depend on others"

Or if you've been brought up in a Christian country:

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

As an outsider I had a quite high respect for Buddhist monks

Living here I realized they are as corrupted as the rest of the population, that's all.

[slapout]

Religion and Politics are two topics, that to argue or understand, are beyond my capability. Both seem to have a make up of people, that I and others see as good, bad, or indifferent.

The one thing they all seem to have in common is they are financed/supported by many of those people who make a real contibution to society. When members of any group can demostrate thru actions/deeds that they have given back to the society, that pays their way, I will be at the front of the line to express my appreciation and gratitude. Those that fail to do so will be subject to my scorn. Rocks, glass houses, interpertation of texts and others thoughts, by weekend students, are not the source of real information I would seek, if I had an interest.