Monks And Money

[fabianfred]

Given the choice between spending time with the Buddhists in this thread or their opponents I'd much rather spend time with the Buddhists. They don't seem to be carrying a big rucksack of anger around with them.

Real buddhists wouldn't have opponents.

Even the Buddha had enemies who insulted him and tried to see his downfall....he just treated them with the same compassion as for all beings.

[loong]

I've deleted a couple of posts, one for discussing moderation and the other for being nothing but an attempt to depict Thai monks in a bad light.

I don't recall if this topic started in the Buddhist Forum or another, but I'd like to remind everyone that we have our own forum-specific rules, one of which is:

"Buddhism, along with the Thai monarchy, is one of the most respected social institutions in Thailand. Posts whose primary purpose is to slag off Buddhism in general or Thai Buddhism in particular are not welcome. Such posts will be edited or deleted immediately, and the member will be warned and/or suspended."

If you think Thai monks should be saints, you might want to look at an earlier topic: Thai Buddhism Is What It Is.

I started this topic and it was never intended to be a discussion of Buddhism.

It was about my Brother-in-law and other monks that I am aware of that seem to have a larger disposable income than people that work a normal job.

It was originally posted in General, but I imagine a mod moved it because of the way the thread progressed.

In fact, all the posts about the principles of Buddhism unrelated to money are off topic.

From my little Knowledge of Buddhism, it seems very noble.

Unfortunately, many of those that refer to themselves as Buddhists are in fact not. They are as greedy and selfish as everyone else.

This is not intended to slag off Buddhism or Buddhists, only those who pretend to be.

[sabaijai]

In other news of lavish lifestyles in the Thai sangha, here's one currently doing the rounds.

"Thailand cracks down on monks living it up with luxuries"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/thailand-cracks-down-monks-luxuries

There are many monks who succumb to greed, or to the cult of merit-making which concentrates excessive wealth in some monasteries. But I like to think -- or at least hope -- that they are the exceptions.

[beautifulthailand99]

Buddhism here for the most part is anything but Buddhism. There should be a law that forbids them to call themselves Buddhists.

There should be a law that forbids organised religion

Live and let live all religions become ossified with a rigid dogma/code that gets passed down and embellished with the generations. Follow you own light do good and do no evil and just enjoy the short ride of life before the nothingness engulfs you and sweeps you away into the cosmic dust.

[Buckaroo]

Buddhism here for the most part is anything but Buddhism. There should be a law that forbids them to call themselves Buddhists.

There should be a law that forbids organised religion

Live and let live all religions become ossified with a rigid dogma/code that gets passed down and embellished with the generations. Follow you own light do good and do no evil and just enjoy the short ride of life before the nothingness engulfs you and sweeps you away into the cosmic dust.

And that is exactly why all organised religion should be banned. Through the use of it's scriptures and dogma it is nothing more than a money making power hungry institution that stops humanity achieving all that is possible for it to achieve before it returns to cosmic dust

[Kananga]

Given the choice between spending time with the Buddhists in this thread or their opponents I'd much rather spend time with the Buddhists. They don't seem to be carrying a big rucksack of anger around with them.

Real buddhists wouldn't have opponents.

Even the Buddha had enemies who insulted him and tried to see his downfall....he just treated them with the same compassion as for all beings.

So he didn't treat them as an opponent.... Anyway, this is all speculation as you have no proof he had people try to see his downfall, and you also have no proof he didnt react without compassion. You only have your faith on the matter.

[rockyysdt]

Hi Kanaga.

It's like this.

You start with a noble man who discovers something powerful about our species.

Something which involves daily practice to achieve.

Something which psychologists are discovering and using in their therapy.
Something which can improve ones life and help one to escape negative conditioning.

Then, over time some of the teaching is embellished, misunderstood, and altered.

Then, via many circumstances, some practice incorrectly, or worse, scam.

Now you need to decide.

Do scammers color your view on the original teachings which are there to be discovered?

Will you continue to view Buddhism as a religion, when if one takes the time and studies what was originally taught you will find something quite different to your belief?

What humans do is form opinions on every subject they experience in life.

Whether this opinion was based on what they were taught as infants or learned later on, and whether it was factual or false, most humans will remain fixed to their original views, opinions, beliefs during future encounters.

The Buddha taught a path which could open your mind rather than be attached to ones conditioning.

Would you walk away from this, based on some scammers purporting to espouse Buddhism and whose behavior confirms or supports your conditioned belief about its validity?

Edited June 18, 2013 by rockyysdt

[Buckaroo]

Hi Kanaga.

It's like this.

You start with a noble man who discovers something powerful about our species.

Something which involves daily practice to achieve.

Something which psychologists are discovering and using in their therapy.

Something which can improve ones life and help one to escape negative conditioning.

Then, over time some of the teaching is embellished, misunderstood, and altered.

Then, via many circumstances, some practice incorrectly, or worse, scam.

Now you need to decide.

Do scammers color your view on the original teachings which are there to be discovered?

Will you continue to view Buddhism as a religion, when if one takes the time and studies what was originally taught you will find something quite different to your belief?

What humans do is form opinions on every subject they experience in life.

Whether this opinion was based on what they were taught as infants or learned later on, and whether it was factual or false, most humans will remain fixed to their original views, opinions, beliefs during future encounters.

The Buddha taught a path which could open your mind rather than be attached to ones conditioning.

Would you walk away from this, based on some scammers purporting to espouse Buddhism and whose behavior confirms or supports your conditioned belief about its validity?

I would walk away from this based on the fact it's fairy tales and invisible friends, conjured up only to make money for those that sit and spout these stories.

[Kananga]

Hi Kanaga.

It's like this.

You start with a noble man who discovers something powerful about our species.

Something which involves daily practice to achieve.

Something which psychologists are discovering and using in their therapy.

Something which can improve ones life and help one to escape negative conditioning.

Then, over time some of the teaching is embellished, misunderstood, and altered.

Then, via many circumstances, some practice incorrectly, or worse, scam.

Now you need to decide.

Do scammers color your view on the original teachings which are there to be discovered?

Will you continue to view Buddhism as a religion, when if one takes the time and studies what was originally taught you will find something quite different to your belief?

What humans do is form opinions on every subject they experience in life.

Whether this opinion was based on what they were taught as infants or learned later on, and whether it was factual or false, most humans will remain fixed to their original views, opinions, beliefs during future encounters.

The Buddha taught a path which could open your mind rather than be attached to ones conditioning.

Would you walk away from this, based on some scammers purporting to espouse Buddhism and whose behavior confirms or supports your conditioned belief about its validity?

I would walk away from this but because there may be a better path and turning one's back on other ways just to focus on the teachings of one man may not allow one to fully open one's mind. Following Buddhism stops people from seeing other paths as they are focussing only on one man's findings. It is a restrictive path of life in that respect.

[fabianfred]

Hi Kanaga.

It's like this.

You start with a noble man who discovers something powerful about our species.

Something which involves daily practice to achieve.

Something which psychologists are discovering and using in their therapy.

Something which can improve ones life and help one to escape negative conditioning.

Then, over time some of the teaching is embellished, misunderstood, and altered.

Then, via many circumstances, some practice incorrectly, or worse, scam.

Now you need to decide.

Do scammers color your view on the original teachings which are there to be discovered?

Will you continue to view Buddhism as a religion, when if one takes the time and studies what was originally taught you will find something quite different to your belief?

What humans do is form opinions on every subject they experience in life.

Whether this opinion was based on what they were taught as infants or learned later on, and whether it was factual or false, most humans will remain fixed to their original views, opinions, beliefs during future encounters.

The Buddha taught a path which could open your mind rather than be attached to ones conditioning.

Would you walk away from this, based on some scammers purporting to espouse Buddhism and whose behavior confirms or supports your conditioned belief about its validity?

I would walk away from this but because there may be a better path and turning one's back on other ways just to focus on the teachings of one man may not allow one to fully open one's mind. Following Buddhism stops people from seeing other paths as they are focussing only on one man's findings. It is a restrictive path of life in that respect.

Thinking that the Buddha was just another man shows a lack of understanding of just what he went through in order to reach that point.

All other paths are lesser, once you realise what he taught..

[F4UCorsair]

Throughout the past centuries: The clergy (no matter what religion), has never gone hungry. The only ones gone hungry were their followers.

Amazingly enough, they still have followers up to this very day.

Cheers.

It is quite extraordinary that they still have followers, education being the 'enemy' of religion. It served its purpose when people weren't educated, and did well keeping them on a straight line in life, but now that people can think for themselves, it's surprising that religion exists at all. I suppose it's why it still thrives in undeveloped countries.

Many years ago when in Rome, I did as the Romans do, visited the Vatican Museum, and was astounded at the wealth contained therein. One of the items I loved seeing was a small oil lamp, clay, made in a mold (so thousands of identical lamps were produced) 2000+ years ago. It was the same oil lamp that can be seen in the catacombs under Rome, where the Christians hid out, during the crusades. All that remains in the catacombs is the profile because they were set in the wall with a dob of clay, and over the centuries, have been broken away.

Since they are identical, one would assume that the museum would have one as an example, but they had dozens, each one exactly the same as the next.

How much would one be worth on the market? $10,000?? $100,000?? Who knows, but the money tied up in dozens, if not hundreds, could be better spent of the poor and needy, the very people the church purports to care for. Enough said.

Buddhism, and its 'clergy' may not be perfect, but they're way ahead of the mainstream 'religions. Before I'm corrected, I understand that Buddhism isn't a religion, more a life philosophy, but it's broadly categorized as a religious following.

Edited June 18, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[rockyysdt]

What humans do is form opinions on every subject they experience in life.

I would walk away from this but because there may be a better path and turning one's back on other ways just to focus on the teachings of one man may not allow one to fully open one's mind. Following Buddhism stops people from seeing other paths as they are focussing only on one man's findings. It is a restrictive path of life in that respect.

Yours is a perfect example of having formed an opinion which you will probably stick with until death.

It is probably one of thousands of opinions and beliefs residing inside you.

This is like living in a prison.

Correct or incorrect, they will shape your life.

To address your position.

Firstly the Buddha never referred to himself as the Buddha.

He also never referred to his teaching as Buddhism.

If you discovered beer and centuries later they called drinking it Buddhism, it doesn't change the fact that it is just that, beer.

The same with Buddhist teaching.

It is simply a technique which one practices to improve/increase awareness.

If you use your logic you will reject beer if one man discovers it.

Beer is beer and the practice to increase awareness are just that regardless of who first introduced them.

Don't be seduced by the pageantry and custom which now surrounds it, Buddhism is purely a practice.

Will you take the time to learn what it is about?

If not, will be more neutral with your stance given your lack of awareness of what it really is?

Edited June 18, 2013 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

Real buddhists wouldn't have opponents.

The Buddha taught during a time when Brahmanism gripped this region.

Brahmanism controlled every facet of life.

Going against the teaching of Brahman was often met with death.

The Buddha taught awakening.

Awakening from superstition.

He had to be careful as his message could be construed anti anti Brahman.

Yes, he had opponents, many who wouldn't hesitate to kill him.

[Kananga]

What humans do is form opinions on every subject they experience in life.

I would walk away from this but because there may be a better path and turning one's back on other ways just to focus on the teachings of one man may not allow one to fully open one's mind. Following Buddhism stops people from seeing other paths as they are focussing only on one man's findings. It is a restrictive path of life in that respect.

Yours is a perfect example of having formed an opinion which you will probably stick with until death.

It is probably one of thousands of opinions and beliefs residing inside you.

This is like living in a prison.

Correct or incorrect, they will shape your life.

To address your position.

Firstly the Buddha never referred to himself as the Buddha.

He also never referred to his teaching as Buddhism.

If you discovered beer and centuries later they called drinking it Buddhism, it doesn't change the fact that it is just that, beer.

The same with Buddhist teaching.

It is simply a technique which one practices to improve/increase awareness.

If you use your logic you will reject beer if one man discovers it.

Beer is beer and the practice to increase awareness are just that regardless of who first introduced them.

Don't be seduced by the pageantry and custom which now surrounds it, Buddhism is purely a practice.

Will you take the time to learn what it is about?

If not, will be more neutral with your stance given your lack of awareness of what it really is?

Actually, this is a perfect example of you forming opinions about me. They are wrong. The Buddha wouldnt have formed such opinions of me. he would have learnt from my observations, like a billion other observations that guide our collective consciousness.

Sorry, but you are wrong. May I suggest you spend less time telling people how things are and more time focussing on your inner light. It needs to be brighter than it currently is if it is to lead you through the darkness.

[Kananga]

Real buddhists wouldn't have opponents.

The Buddha taught during a time when Brahmanism gripped this region.

Brahmanism controlled every facet of life.

Going against the teaching of Brahman was often met with death.

The Buddha taught awakening.

Awakening from superstition.

He had to be careful as his message could be construed anti anti Brahman.

Yes, he had opponents, many who wouldn't hesitate to kill him.

He was their opponent, but they were not his. You need to learn the difference to understand peace and compassion in its purest form.

[sabaijai]

The Buddhism forum is not a place to come if all you're interested in posting is anti-religion views.

As is it seems like opinions are going in circles now, repeating the same two views (all religion is bad vs not all monks are bad) over and over, topic closed.

Under Thailand News, the discussion continues here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647439-thai-monks-rebuked-over-ostentatious-jet-ride/