When Can We See Some Healthy Thai Food?

[brahmburgers]

I've lived in northern Thailand near 8 years. I often go to restaurants, and Bob knows there are thousands here in Chiang Rai, but I opt for non-Thai non-Chinese places when I can. My favorite is a little Moslem place with chicken and curry/saffron rice with salad/soup/water for Bt.30. More often than not, if I eat Thai food, I feel crappy afterwards. Being northern Thailand, nearly all businesses and restaurants are Chinese owned. So MSG is used copiously. Even when I make it clear to the waitress that I don't want MSG "mai aow pom churot, kap" they'll often put the stuff in the meal ....maybe out of habit or forgetfulness, or spite, who knows. Like Thai food, Chinese put bunches of sauces and fermented things in dishes - all salt-laden, sugary, and who-knows what else (decomposed fish, anyone?) that can give headaches and sleepless nights.

Because there are no restaurants with clean food, and certainly none with organic or non additive-laden, I do most meals at home. To try to end on a positive chord: Thailand has all the ingredients for making foods that are healthy as well as delicious to different palates. Some farang in particular would to see a transition to food options that are A.Organic B.Clean C.Environmentally considerate (tofu rather than beef, for example) Thai food is so "busy" with a dozen condoments added before the plate gets to the diner. Give us simpler fare and we'll decide if we want to spoon on

the MSG, salt, sugar, fish sauce, mayonaise, hot peppers, picked whatever. Dinerat Emptor (let the diner beware)!

[h5n1]

yup same problem dude - with the msg and youve got the thai down. if this dish you talk about is kai khao soi th ecurry may be made ahead of time. try going else where and isolating the issue???

try eating in the street where food is cooked fresh and give them the mai aow too roht line again - see if it is the msg.

funny how we think asian is so healthy but its fried in old oil, loaded with msg and then salt and then nam pha.

finally as racial insensitive is this may sound - i dont think the chinese really care if you are eating at a big restaurant style place. if you order lat khao both the chinese families in shops here in pattaya actually know by now (after daily eating for far too long - falang mai ow two roht) so eventually it can work - my addvice - go elsewhere till you find someone willing to fix it as ordered.

often wondered if fish sauce is considered beverage here

does sound like salt/msg problem.

[cooL_guY_corY]

yup same problem dude - with the msg and youve got the thai down. if this dish you talk about is kai khao soi th ecurry may be made ahead of time. try going else where and isolating the issue???

try eating in the street where food is cooked fresh and give them the mai aow too roht line again - see if it is the msg.

funny how we think asian is so healthy but its fried in old oil, loaded with msg and then salt and then nam pha.

finally as racial insensitive is this may sound - i dont think the chinese really care if you are eating at a big restaurant style place. if you order lat khao both the chinese families in shops here in pattaya actually know by now (after daily eating for far too long - falang mai ow two roht) so eventually it can work - my addvice - go elsewhere till you find someone willing to fix it as ordered.

often wondered if fish sauce is considered beverage here

does sound like salt/msg problem.

hey whats msg? I think the only way to really get what you want especially up north is to just cook it your self. When ever i cook i dont run salt, sugar, and really take it easy on the oil, when i watch thais cook.. eeeeee

[meadish_sweetball]

MSG = monosodium glutamate.

Several independent scientific studies conducted in many countries have come to the conclusion that MSG is 'mostly harmless'.

It occurs naturally in many foods, but adding it in refined form adds an extra flavour, which the Japanese refer to as 'umami' - sometimes described as 'savoury' in English.

Some people report symptoms and swear they are allergic to it whereas others, like myself, are completely unperturbed. In Thai it is known as 'pong choo rot' or 'ajinomoto' from a Japanese brand of MSG.

Wikipedia has an extensive article on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

[cooL_guY_corY]

interesting stuff, thanks

[Phil Conners]

... and all the ultrahigh-cholesterol palm oil used.

Edited March 28, 2006 by madsere

[sabaijai]

This question is akin to 'When are you going to stop beating your wife?'

I find Thai cuisine--if eaten in the customary variety and quantities the Thais themselves eat it--to be very healthy, and in fact I feel fittest on a steady diet of Thai food. Most farang foods--including the widely perceived 'healthy' cuisines, such as 'Mediterranean' and vegetarian--don't set right with me at all and I can take them only infrequently. I've lived here 25+ years--it might have a lot to do with what you're used to.

[suegha]

... and all the ultrahigh-cholesterol palm oil used.

This is an urban myth started by the producers of hydrogenated oils. Palm oil is actually very good for you! Do a surf and check out the detail. You will be amazed!

[Phil Conners]

Sorry, my bad. I meant saturated fat, not cholesterol.

It still makes you fat big time.

[suegha]

Sorry, my bad. I meant saturated fat, not cholesterol.

It still makes you fat big time.

Who was it that said 'Everything you enjoy in life is either illegal, immoral, or bad for you.'

I actually use very little of any type of oil, a little palm oil to stir-fry things and maybe olive oil in salad dressing.

[cooL_guY_corY]

palm oil is in the same as canola oil, etc? all the oil i used in the tropics always seemed to have corn on the bottle. anyway i got a question that i didnt want to start a new thread for, what is Kapow in english?

[tom yum goong]

anyway i got a question that i didnt want to start a new thread for, what is Kapow in english?

holy basil

[cooL_guY_corY]

perfect looks like its gonna be a kapow gai kaidow vodka party tomorrow.

[Taggart]

From page 93 of the book "Eating Well For Optimum Health", by Andrew Weil, M.D.

"You should also minimize consumption of the two "tropical oils", palm and coconut,

which also contain high proportions of SFAs, saturated fats. Of the two, coconut is the

worse. Some years ago, a vocal public outcry succeeded in having tropical oils removed

from commercial food products. Ironically, manufacturers replace them with partially

hydrogenated oils, which are even worse."

[Tolley]

Any oils that are heated are not good for you.

Cold pressed oils on salads are the healthiest choice.

If you buy Thai food from the street or restaurants long term you are probably consuming a whole of very unhealthy oils because everything is fried and the oil that is used is usually old and cheap and nasty.

The best and really only healthy option is to prepare the majority of your own food. This equally applies anywhere in the world. Those who are out to profit from selling food are in most cases not interested in your long term health.

[cooL_guY_corY]

so what do you advise for cooking that requires oil ? I use minimal amounts of oil when ever possible and usually use canola oil.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think if you use minimal amounts of oil it is not something you should be overly worried about. It is easy enough to do regular health checkups to see what your curve is.

Different people have different tolerance for different things. The oldest woman in the world to date, Jeanne Calment who became 122 years old, smoked tobacco until she was 100...

Some friends of my family who were health freaks, vegetarians and outdoors type people both died before the age of 70. Our bodies are complex organisms, and single scientific studies are mostly only indications...

My own idea: Exercise enough to keep fit and try to avoid excessive stress - and eat the things you naturally feel happy with. Never forget you could be hit by a truck at any time and your life over...

[Taggart]

so what do you advise for cooking that requires oil ? I use minimal amounts of oil when ever possible and usually use canola oil.

In his latest book "SuperFoods Healthstyle" by Steven G. Pratt, M.D., for oils he recommends cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil, and only one other oil listed as a sidekick, canola oil.

In their 2001 book "The Okinawa Program", by Bradley J. Willcox, M.D., D. Craig Willcox, Ph.D and Makato Suzuki, M.D. seem to prefer cold-pressed canola oil over olive oil, so take your pick.

What all the authors seem to agree on is, keep away from deep fried foods.

[cooL_guY_corY]

cool stuff, i am not overly worried about any of that stuff - i eat fairly healthy and pump lots of iron everday, shit iam only 21 . really interesting stuff though, thanks for the info

[Ned]

From oil to sugar.....One 250ml carton of green tea with milk contained 26 teaspoons of sugar. Stuff like oyster sauce and that chili sauce for omelettes contain about 12% sugar. Thais consume 20 teaspoons a day up from about 7 spoons ten years ago. What a diet eh when combined with recycled palm oil, ie processed food factory waste.

[Taggart]

>>>Palm oil is actually very good for you!<<<

I'm beginning to think suegha may have a point, and it's not just Palm oil. I've been doing a search on the internet under "Thai diet", and now, after what I've just read compared to what I previously posted, I'm more confused than ever.

Probably one of the best pieces of advice comes from this research scientist:

"Enig encourages individuals to eat according to their biological and cultural heritage, the way people ate before the advent of processing."

[suegha]

One of the simplest ways to view food is whether it's easy to digest or not. Many oils are difficult or even impossible to digest. Hydrogenated veg oils are impossible to digest and just get lodged in your system. Natural oils such as palm oil, are easy to digest.

Ok, so we should be keeping our oil consumption to a minimum, however, when we do consume it, keep it natural.

Ps regarding 'hidden' sugar and salt. Yes, these are dangerous!

[brahmburgers]

MSG = monosodium glutamate.

Several independent scientific studies conducted in many countries have come to the conclusion that MSG is 'mostly harmless'.

It occurs naturally in many foods, but adding it in refined form adds an extra flavour, which the Japanese refer to as 'umami' - sometimes described as 'savoury' in English.

Some people report symptoms and swear they are allergic to it whereas others, like myself, are completely unperturbed. In Thai it is known as 'pong choo rot' or 'ajinomoto' from a Japanese brand of MSG.

Wikipedia has an extensive article on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

MSG may be a non-issue for some, but I know for a fact it messes up my metabolism. Here's how it screws me up: speedy and very weak pulse, violent dreams. I also get a whopping thirst, but a Singaporan woman told me water doesn't help with MSG. She swears soda pop is the best cure. She also told me the surest way to tell whether someone's a katoy (transvestite) or a woman, is to gently bend it's arm back and see whether it locks straight (a guy) or bend back (a chick) - but now I'm way off topic.

[sabaijai]

MSG may be a non-issue for some, but I know for a fact it messes up my metabolism. Here's how it screws me up: speedy and very weak pulse, violent dreams. I also get a whopping thirst, but a Singaporan woman told me water doesn't help with MSG. She swears soda pop is the best cure. She also told me the surest way to tell whether someone's a katoy (transvestite) or a woman, is to gently bend it's arm back and see whether it locks straight (a guy) or bend back (a chick) - but now I'm way off topic.

I'd wager that in a double-blind, controlled laboratory experiment your body couldn't tell the difference between food containing msg and food without. Such experiments have been carried out repeatedly, and subjects who claimed to have symptoms such as those you described tended to have them when they thought or were told that the food contained MSG. When told it didn't, no effects. Here's an abstract from one such study that suggests that what you experience is a placebo effect (or more specifically, food hysteria):

J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2000 Nov;106(5):973-80. Multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multiple-challenge evaluation of reported reactions to monosodium glutamate. Geha RS, Beiser A, Ren C, Patterson R, Greenberger PA, Grammer LC, Ditto AM, Harris KE, Shaughnessy MA, Yarnold PR, Corren J, Saxon A. Division of Immunology, Children Hospital and Department of Pediatrics, Harvard University, Boston, MA, USA.

BACKGROUND: The frequency of reactions reported to occur after the consumption of monosodium glutamate (MSG) is the subject of controversy.

OBJECTIVE: We conducted a multicenter, multiphase, double-blind, placebo-controlled study with a crossover design to evaluate reactions reportedly caused by MSG.

METHODS: In 3 of 4 protocols (A, B, and C), MSG was administered without food. A positive response was scored if the subject reported 2 or more symptoms from a list of 10 symptoms reported to occur after ingestion of MSG-containing foods within 2 hours. In protocol A 130 self-selected reportedly MSG-reactive volunteers were challenged with 5 g of MSG and with placebo on separate days (days 1 and 2). Of the 86 subjects who reacted to MSG, placebo, or both in protocol A, 69 completed protocol B to determine whether the response was consistent and dose dependent. To further examine the consistency and reproducibility of reactions to MSG, 12 of the 19 subjects who responded to 5 g of MSG but not to placebo in both protocols A and B were given, in protocol C, 2 challenges, each consisting of 5 g of MSG versus placebo.

RESULTS: Of 130 subjects in protocol A, 50 (38. 5%) responded to MSG only, 17 (13.1%) responded to placebo only (P <. 05), and 19 (14.6%) responded to both. challenge with increasing doses of msg in protocol b was associated with increased response rates. only half (n = 19) of 37 subjects who reacted to 5 g of msg but not placebo in protocol a reacted similarly in protocol b, suggesting inconsistency in the response. two of the 19 subjects responded in both challenges to msg but not placebo in protocol c; however, their symptoms were not reproducible in protocols a through c. these 2 subjects were challenged in protocol d 3 times with placebo and 3 times with 5 g of msg in the presence of food. both responded to only one of the msg challenges in protocol d. conclusion: the results suggest that large doses of msg given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to msg. however, neither persistent nor serious effects from msg ingestion are observed, and the responses were not consistent on retesting.

MSG is not an allergen, according to the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has found no evidence to suggest any long-term, serious health consequences from consuming MSG.

[jdinasia]

geeeze ... just give me curries and soups made from coconut milk .... and meat-on-a-stick with some sticky rice ... I love it all

but complaining about Thai food? ... meet some Thai folks that will take you along for a day ... eat what they eat ... you'd be amazed ...

don't kid yourself that everyone eats fat fat food and huge portions all the time

breakfast ... a rice porridge

lunch ... noodles ...

etc etc

over-all very healthy in the quantities of rich food to rice

Edited April 21, 2006 by jdinasia

[cclub75]

If you buy Thai food from the street or restaurants long term you are probably consuming a whole of very unhealthy oils because everything is fried and the oil that is used is usually old and cheap and nasty.

When i'm in BKK, i go to restaurant every night.

A part from the oil problem (I avoid all "deep fried" dishes), there is always something that concerns me :

-quality of the meat (for instance antibiotics in the shrimps, or the "industrial" chicken)

-fertilizers on vegetables

I'm undoubtly a litte bit paranoid, but i think the agriculture standards are... well differents that what we have in the west.

From a health point of view, I believe this can be worse than bad oil. What do you think ?

Last but not least : sometimes I critic when they put too much sugar in some dishes.

But still, i'm a great fan of thai food, even the spicy one.

[Ajarn]

Fact is, eaing anything here can be dangerous to your health... Now, or in twenty years...

Fact is, I gotta eat, and if it looks good, it is, and I don't worry about the cosequences.

I figure, if you're going to live here, you have to adopt a fairly 'blinders' based atitude if you want to stay sane here.

I remember when I first came here, carrying these big 'baggies' to put the ice in, then the whole thing into my drink. Well, I realised that was a dumb idea pretty quick... After twenty years here, I've never really had an untoward experience.

[Ajarn]

Fact is, eaing anything here can be dangerous to your health... Now, or in twenty years...

Fact is, I gotta eat, and if it looks good, it is, and I don't worry about the cosequences.

I figure, if you're going to live here, you have to adopt a fairly 'blinders' based atitude if you want to stay sane here.

I remember when I first came here, carrying these big 'baggies' to put the ice in, then the whole thing into my drink. Well, I realised that was a dumb idea pretty quick... After twenty years here, I've never really had an untoward experience.

Well, I did get poisoned by pesticides when I ate a watermelon in 1990...

[Donz]

I just stay the hel_l away from food that look funny or smell funny.

[tutsiwarrior]

when in Thailand, if the food emanates evil smells it's probably good for you...

by implication when food smells like western food, ie., without evil smells, then it's probably not...(good for you)...

ergo...don't eat to