Mixing Concrete The Thailand Way

[David48]

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I found this interesting ...

You might also enjoy ... building-a-perimeter-wall-start-to-finish

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Edited June 3, 2013 by David48

[IMHO]

Riveting!

[Morakot]

Thanks for posting this David!

Maybe this team should stick to working with wood or something else.

Why put concrete there in the first place? Amazing!

[thaicbr]

Wow.. I have seen lazy shit construction work in Thailand but that one takes the biscuit.

[joeaverage]

cool, when do we watch the paint dry?

[Kwasaki]

There's many ways to leave your lover and many ways to lay concrete.

[PoodMaiDai]

I always get a chuckle where I hear the term, "farmers with hammers" used.

[Kwasaki]

I always get a chuckle where I hear the term, "farmers with hammers" used.

Me too, for me dunno whether farmers are any good but you cant beat the good old Irish screwdriver.

[Khun Jean]

I see people doing backbreaking work, probably for long hours because they are too poor to buy the necessary tools. And because of that make the best of it.

That reminds me when it is my turn to start building to buy at least a concrete mixer, wheelbarrow, hacksaw, and a few brushes for the man who is gluing pvc pipes with his finger.

[Gsxrnz]

Great post! It sums up Thai construction standards in one quick video. It doesn't matter what's underneath or behind the construction as long as the finished product looks OK. If I was the guy having the concrete laid I would have been having kittens - luckily he's a bit laid back about it and was more impressed with the short time the job took. Duh - there's a reason it didn't take long!

I've had hours of fun watching a small condo being built across the road from me. The sh*te that's been covered up in concrete render amazed me. Exterior walls constructed of thin cinder blocks with shoddy mortar, not a single piece of reinforcing in the whole wall and no steel tying it to the floors or pillars. A rugby scrum leaning against the wall from the inside could push it out without even trying. But covered in render it looks solid as a rock. I have visions of the new owner knocking a nail into the wall to hang a picture and the whole wall falling out in front of him!

A concrete truck left some spillage after pouring concrete for the pillars and I checked it out - if there was more than a handful of aggregate per cubic metre then I would be surprised. Essentially it was just a render with a few token bits of pebble.

Then watched them install large aluminium framed windows (floor to ceiling), fixed with what appeared to be 2 x 50mm screws on each face - 8 short screws holding the whole thing in, and the concrete render over the two pillars with no strength must have been 25mm thick anyway. If you bumped into the glass the whole panel will fall out before the glass breaks. The steel and glass balcony balustrade was fixed the same way - short screws into low standard concrete that didn't even require a pilot hole to be drilled - scary stuff.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[David48]

I see people doing backbreaking work, probably for long hours because they are too poor to buy the necessary tools. And because of that make the best of it.

That reminds me when it is my turn to start building to buy at least a concrete mixer, wheelbarrow, hacksaw, and a few brushes for the man who is gluing pvc pipes with his finger.

Yeh ... I saw that bit with the pipe join, glue and the finger ... poor bugger.

That stuff is seriously not good for your health.

[Gsxrnz]

David48, on 08 Jun 2013 - 15:44, said:

Khun Jean, on 08 Jun 2013 - 15:20, said:

I see people doing backbreaking work, probably for long hours because they are too poor to buy the necessary tools. And because of that make the best of it.

That reminds me when it is my turn to start building to buy at least a concrete mixer, wheelbarrow, hacksaw, and a few brushes for the man who is gluing pvc pipes with his finger.

Yeh ... I saw that bit with the pipe join, glue and the finger ... poor bugger.

That stuff is seriously not good for your health.

And did you notice that the pipe was running horizontally above the reinforcing and through the concrete? That weakens the path and sets him up for a broken pipe some time soon.

Mixing concrete by hand is back breaking work for sure but what amuses me is that the job could have been done properly with the same effort - there is absolutely no planning or logic in how the job was done, it's extremely low standard even though all the materials were there to do it properly, or at least give the finished job a chance of lasting a few years before it all cracks and subsides.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[cooked]

I bought a wheelbarrow with an inflated tyre! hey I had been killing myself with a wheelbarrow that had solid rubber tyres and tried to bury itself into the earth/refused to go over the smallest obstacle. They refused to use it. I insisted. They then filled, very slowly, one of these plastic scoops that they have (with a hoe) and then put the contents in the barrow. I tried to show them how to use a shovel, 5 times faster, no interest, bamboozled. The mix was done not correctly, water, cement and aggregate all going in at the same time, not concrete really, more like soup. Aggregate next to the working place, mixing trough 10 meters away... carry the stuff down there and then bring it back in a bucket. Oh boy. A constant fight with these guys, although for once I didn't start a rant. ( and I can rant so that the walls shake).

Concrete mixer? I will buy one soon, ฿14 000.-, but the problems will start again. I won't talk about the concrete vibrating needle that I bought, I think they wanted a priest.

PVC glue? I do it with my fingers like the Thais. Using a brush does not stop the stuff being toxic and you'll be throwing away several brushes a day if you do it that way, I have a 20 Km drive to the next shop.

This is why I try I try to do as much as I can myself, my fish pond had to be done right and I mixed 6 M3 in one day (15 tons) and wheeled it in. I nearly died, I think I was drinking one can of beer per 500 Kg, expensive business.

Edited June 8, 2013 by cooked

[Gsxrnz]

I bought a wheelbarrow with an inflated tyre! hey I had been killing myself with a wheelbarrow that had solid rubber tyres and tried to bury itself into the earth/refused to go over the smallest obstacle. They refused to use it. I insisted. They then filled, very slowly, one of these plastic scoops that they have (with a hoe) and then put the contents in the barrow. I tried to show them how to use a shovel, 5 times faster, no interest, bamboozled. The mix was done not correctly, water, cement and aggregate all going in at the same time, not concrete really, more like soup. Aggregate next to the working place, mixing trough 10 meters away... carry the stuff down there and then bring it back in a bucket. Oh boy. A constant fight with these guys, although for once I didn't start a rant. ( and I can rant so that the walls shake).

Concrete mixer? I will buy one soon, ฿14 000.-, but the problems will start again. I won't talk about the concrete vibrating needle that I bought, I think they wanted a priest.

PVC glue? I do it with my fingers like the Thais. Using a brush does not stop the stuff being toxic and you'll be throwing away several brushes a day if you do it that way, I have a 20 Km drive to the next shop.

This is why I try I try to do as much as I can myself, my fish pond had to be done right and I mixed 6 M3 in one day (15 tons) and wheeled it in. I nearly died, I think I was drinking one can of beer per 500 Kg, expensive business.

I work on the 3 cans per tonne ratio - a little more expensive but well worth it.

Great post by the way - I've seen things done the same way and when I try and change things to be faster it's all just too hard. I only had one victory when the brothers were transporting many cases of beer (for the wedding party) from the truck to the house in the pouring rain over a muddy entrance way. Some dolt parked the truck 15 metres from the house and 5 guys were falling over themselves at the door taking their flip-flops off and putting them on again, getting wet and generally making a hash of it. I moved the truck right up to the door, and organised it so we had one bloke on the truck passing the beer to a chain gang in the house while a girl held an umbrella over him.

It was like I'd invented rocket science and it was the talk of the village for days - hardly radical, but then when I tried to organise how they erected all the tent roofs for the wedding meal, they went bolshy on me and basically said that this is the way it's always been done. Total disorganisation even before they got the job started.

Then I clicked - every 15 minutes they'd stop to have a complimentary and apparently customary drink of whisky - the longer the job took, the more free whisky. After the work gang of about ten plus assorted family members that were "helping" (to drink the whisky) had consumed 3 bottles, I snuck inside and diluted the next bottle down by 30%. They didn't notice, well.....they didn't say anything. Did it twice again when that was finished as well, reckon I saved at least a bottle overall. They were all smashed before they finished anyway, then climbed in the dodgy old Hino and drove home.

Productivity and efficiency will be over ridden by free whisky any day of the week.

Edit: I forgot to add that I recalled a story of a farang who bought a concrete mixer for his workers. Came back in the afternoon after buying more materials to find the concrete mixer not being used and being mixed by hand. Apparently there had been a power outage while they were doing a mix and they didn't bother to empty it out. Result - one effed concrete mixer.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[Khun Jean]

Remind myself to hire only people who have absolutely no building experience, maybe a few teenagers.

That way i can instruct them and they will actually do it the way i tell them because they don't have knowledge about building at all.

Now where do i get my building knowledge before i start? youtube?

[bankruatsteve]

For PVC gluing here, I just use a couple of Q-tips and throw them after using.

[Salapoo]

Well, it's better than the way they drive you to hospital.

[cooked]

Sorry, edit. Yes I went through the wedding tent fiasco also, starting with them parking the truck not 15 but 50 meters from the store in the temple where the tent was.

I realise now that my thinking is: let's get finished as soon as possible and then get bedrunked. They don't think like that, takes some getting used to. They just want to get through the day, Getting drunk if possible.

Edited June 9, 2013 by cooked

[David48]

For PVC gluing here, I just use a couple of Q-tips and throw them after using.

I presume that's what we call in the civilised world* as cotton tips?

Smart Idea ...

* ... just joking ...

.

[Kwasaki]

David48, on 08 Jun 2013 - 15:44, said:

Khun Jean, on 08 Jun 2013 - 15:20, said:

I see people doing backbreaking work, probably for long hours because they are too poor to buy the necessary tools. And because of that make the best of it.

That reminds me when it is my turn to start building to buy at least a concrete mixer, wheelbarrow, hacksaw, and a few brushes for the man who is gluing pvc pipes with his finger.

Yeh ... I saw that bit with the pipe join, glue and the finger ... poor bugger.

That stuff is seriously not good for your health.

And did you notice that the pipe was running horizontally above the reinforcing and through the concrete? That weakens the path and sets him up for a broken pipe some time soon.

Mixing concrete by hand is back breaking work for sure but what amuses me is that the job could have been done properly with the same effort - there is absolutely no planning or logic in how the job was done, it's extremely low standard even though all the materials were there to do it properly, or at least give the finished job a chance of lasting a few years before it all cracks and subsides.

When they were doing mine when I was a multi million ( 70 baht - £ ) millionair they did a simular way of laying ie mixing where it was going to be.

I thought when I come here to stay I will just dig it up and replace it, that was 13 years ago, I still haven't bother yet because it's still OK.

Also they have used plastic spacers in reinforced concrete in the west for years.

Caution:-

The solvent vapors from the primer and cement can make you dizzy and are dangerous to your health. Make sure you have plenty of ventilation or wear an approved organic vapor respirator when working with primer and solvent cement.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Kwasaki

[Beardog]

I always get a chuckle where I hear the term, "farmers with hammers" used.

In Thailand it is more like Som Tam cooks with cleavers & hatchets. King of the butchers. LOL!

Quote: PVC glue? I do it with my fingers like the Thais. Using a brush does not

stop the stuff being toxic and you'll be throwing away several brushes a

day if you do it that way, I have a 20 Km drive to the next shop.

The main reason to use a Q-tip or brush is cleanliness. Actually all joints should be sanded on both the elbows-connectors or T connections & blown out then apply the glue(primer) with some type of CLEAN applicator. Fingers tend to drag cut PVC particles & grime into the joints. Nowadays just about every medium to lager can comes with a built in brush. A wonderful invention. While you may never have a problem with finger painting it only takes once in a remote are or 1/2 meter- 1 meter buried in the ground to have that small leak that you have to do over to entice you to do it the preferred way.

Just like auto painting No fingers & lots of chemical washes before the paint to keep out foreign matter that can bite you later.

The finger method is the lazy way out & really not recommended unless your name is Somchai!

Edited June 12, 2013 by Beardog

[Crossy]

I found that q-tips fall apart after a few applications of PVC cement.

Wifey made me a special applicator, OK a bit of waste cloth on a bamboo stick. After a while the cloth built up a layer of hardened cement which works pretty well as an applicator, certainly better than a finger.

[Beardog]

I found that q-tips fall apart after a few applications of PVC cement.

Wifey made me a special applicator, OK a bit of waste cloth on a bamboo stick. After a while the cloth built up a layer of hardened cement which works pretty well as an applicator, certainly better than a finger.

That works great I used in all the 4" pipes. You can put a lot of glue in both ends quickly. & your hand isn't all good out from finger painting!

[thaibeachlovers]

Remind myself to hire only people who have absolutely no building experience, maybe a few teenagers.

That way i can instruct them and they will actually do it the way i tell them because they don't have knowledge about building at all.

Now where do i get my building knowledge before i start? youtube?

Exactly. Having watched a large drainage ditch being constructed near the house, which will last a couple of years before collapsing due to the reinforcing being under, but not IN the concrete, I have come to the conclusion that corruption is more of a blight to LOS than one would assume.

Employ people that know nothing about concrete to save money, and supervised by people that don't care, it's a disaster for the people that actually live in the area affected. However, they voted for the council, so it's self inflicted.

[canuckamuck]

There are no shortcuts too great or too obvious in the quest for perfection in Thai construction

*Perfection in Thai construction is using the least amount of time and resources to achieve the barest minimum visual standard.

[cooked]

I always get a chuckle where I hear the term, "farmers with hammers" used.

In Thailand it is more like Som Tam cooks with cleavers & hatchets. King of the butchers. LOL!

Quote: PVC glue? I do it with my fingers like the Thais. Using a brush does not

stop the stuff being toxic and you'll be throwing away several brushes a

day if you do it that way, I have a 20 Km drive to the next shop.

The main reason to use a Q-tip or brush is cleanliness. Actually all joints should be sanded on both the elbows-connectors or T connections & blown out then apply the glue(primer) with some type of CLEAN applicator. Fingers tend to drag cut PVC particles & grime into the joints. Nowadays just about every medium to lager can comes with a built in brush. A wonderful invention. While you may never have a problem with finger painting it only takes once in a remote are or 1/2 meter- 1 meter buried in the ground to have that small leak that you have to do over to entice you to do it the preferred way.

Just like auto painting No fingers & lots of chemical washes before the paint to keep out foreign matter that can bite you later.

The finger method is the lazy way out & really not recommended unless your name is Somchai!

I've not had a failure with my PVC pipes yet, using my fingers.

[AWT1968]

I always get a chuckle where I hear the term, "farmers with hammers" used.

In Thailand it is more like Som Tam cooks with cleavers & hatchets. King of the butchers. LOL!

Quote: PVC glue? I do it with my fingers like the Thais. Using a brush does not

stop the stuff being toxic and you'll be throwing away several brushes a

day if you do it that way, I have a 20 Km drive to the next shop.

The main reason to use a Q-tip or brush is cleanliness. Actually all joints should be sanded on both the elbows-connectors or T connections & blown out then apply the glue(primer) with some type of CLEAN applicator. Fingers tend to drag cut PVC particles & grime into the joints. Nowadays just about every medium to lager can comes with a built in brush. A wonderful invention. While you may never have a problem with finger painting it only takes once in a remote are or 1/2 meter- 1 meter buried in the ground to have that small leak that you have to do over to entice you to do it the preferred way.

Just like auto painting No fingers & lots of chemical washes before the paint to keep out foreign matter that can bite you later.

The finger method is the lazy way out & really not recommended unless your name is Somchai!

I've not had a failure with my PVC pipes yet, using my fingers.

I've found that an old toothbrush was very useful for applying the solvent. The brush didn't last for ever (about a week I recall) but it did the job perfectly well.

Given the lack of spacers here for the rebar, mentioned elsewhere, I did cast some concrete spacers using ice cube trays (to much amusement of the family!). They weren't perfect, but were better than nothing. When I return to Thailand later this year I'll bring a load of plastic spacers with me ready for the next phase of my project.

First post today! I've been lurking for quite some time, but I feel quite at home amongst the construction threads.

AWT1968

[David48]

I've found that an old toothbrush was very useful for applying the solvent. The brush didn't last for ever (about a week I recall) but it did the job perfectly well.

Given the lack of spacers here for the rebar, mentioned elsewhere, I did cast some concrete spacers using ice cube trays (to much amusement of the family!). They weren't perfect, but were better than nothing. When I return to Thailand later this year I'll bring a load of plastic spacers with me ready for the next phase of my project.

First post today! I've been lurking for quite some time, but I feel quite at home amongst the construction threads.

AWT1968

And a great 1st post it was!

I also waited 12 months before I made my 1st post ... and look where I am now!

.

[Crossy]

Given the lack of spacers here for the rebar, mentioned elsewhere, I did cast some concrete spacers using ice cube trays (to much amusement of the family!). They weren't perfect, but were better than nothing. When I return to Thailand later this year I'll bring a load of plastic spacers with me ready for the next phase of my project.

Welcome AWT

Re-bar stands, have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/481794-housebuilding-thread/?p=4611322 about half way down the post are some piccies of the DIY stands our contractor used. Moulds made from off cuts of 2" PVC pipe.

[IMHO]

Given the lack of spacers here for the rebar, mentioned elsewhere, I did cast some concrete spacers using ice cube trays (to much amusement of the family!). They weren't perfect, but were better than nothing. When I return to Thailand later this year I'll bring a load of plastic spacers with me ready for the next phase of my project.

Welcome AWT

Re-bar stands, have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/481794-housebuilding-thread/?p=4611322 about half way down the post are some piccies of the DIY stands our contractor used. Moulds made from off cuts of 2" PVC pipe.

What's wrong with using rocks as stands?