Being Disrespectful To An Immigration Officer = Permanent Denial Of An Ed Visa Extension

[sbk]

Lets drop the personal stuff and lets drop the trolling, thanks. More posts deleted

[scorecard]

Yes, I also doubt he was blacklisted from the entire country. I know someone in Chiang Mai who threw a fit, refused to leave until she got her extension (even though she didn't bring all the required paperwork) and was escorted from the office and put into a tuk-tuk. She was able to eventually get the desired extension, but only after hiring a visa agent who held her hand in getting her documents together and represented her at the same office, again.

Well I witnessed a scene at the Pattaya City Amphur office (99.9% of customers are Thai folks) many years ago, as follows:

- English gentlemen middle aged, dressed in very small but baggy jogging shorts with his plumbing hanging out the side in the internal pocket of the shorts and with big oversize singlet with hairy armpits flashing, and he looks like he just got out of bed, gf in tow also scantily dressed.

- Farang is walking around the room kicking the furniture and yelling (in English) 'I'm not leaving this office until you give me a Thai passport' and gf is repeating the same in Thai in a loud and not polite voice.

- After some minutes their demands become more impolite and the staff (mostly female) are being called 'bitches'.

- Senior official arrives and explains in Thai and English that there is a formal procedure to apply for Thai citizenship, but the application cannot be lodged at this office and in any event they have no empty Thai passports at this office to actually issue a passport because it's a matter for immigration and the ministry of the interior.

- No listening just more abuse from the farang.

- Several police arrive within minutes, handcuff the farang and the gf and roughly (very roughly) manhandle them into the back of a backed up police pick up truck (throw them into the back of the pick up) and they are gone quickly.

- Lots of pretty negative comments (and not surprising) from the Thai folks inside the office about farang.

[jrtmedic]

MacWalen

There are many issues about which we would disagree !

However , I do agree with your recent statement

"A lot of posters are very negative about the immigration services in Thailand. I, on the other hand, think they are doing a great job"

Edited June 5, 2013 by jrtmedic

[Postmaster]

Alwyn

Need this in the UK +1

[bigbamboo]

The student will not be blacklisted, that is a whole process that includes very senior officials and carries an appeal.

Which is not to say the student can try to extend.

That is why Mario I said kind of blacklisted, lets call it unofficial blacklisting by the officer, he is not going to get an extension in Bangkok anymore. I really don't think he will. Perhaps in another immigration office.

Kind of blacklisted?

Is that like being kind of pregnant?

[abrahamzvi]

To all of US: It is absolutely rude to lose one's manners when dealing with authorities in a host country. We are guests here and should behave as such. If we do not like the way our host country goes, nobody forces us to stay here. We can leave if we wish

[winstonc]

macwelan sir,there not doing a great job,there doing what there paid to do,,,they probably dont even want to be there ,,,,,they are awful in ubon,,phang =nga where we lived before were fantastic,, no sending you away cos its 12,00 and were off for lunch,,

[MacWalen]

The student will not be blacklisted, that is a whole process that includes very senior officials and carries an appeal.

Which is not to say the student can try to extend.

That is why Mario I said kind of blacklisted, lets call it unofficial blacklisting by the officer, he is not going to get an extension in Bangkok anymore. I really don't think he will. Perhaps in another immigration office.

Kind of blacklisted?

Is that like being kind of pregnant?

For the lack of a better word. Unofficially blacklisted in the local immigration office. Local form of blacklisting.

Edited June 5, 2013 by MacWalen

[BahBahBoBo]

I don't really get why you would conclude we are "guests" in this country because of that immigration incident. It's pretty obvious the immigration police have great power over us foreigners, and it is foolish not to adopt a kowtow like attitude towards them in this culture, but I don't see the connection to the guests rhetoric.

It is THEIR country, they do not HAVE TO ALLOW you to take advantage of their beautiful country and weather, lovely people, and most importantly... the ability of your CASH to allow you to live so much better in their country than many of their citizens! Show a bit of respect.

[saroq]

I don't really get why you would conclude we are "guests" in this country because of that immigration incident. It's pretty obvious the immigration police have great power over us foreigners, and it is foolish not to adopt a kowtow like attitude towards them in this culture, but I don't see the connection to the guests rhetoric.

Didn't your mother teach you that if you're a guest in someone's house you make sure that you are on your best behavior? The connection seems pretty clear to me.

[MacWalen]

She called the school to inform that there is no need to issue the

student a new set of the documents as his ED visa will not be extended

anymore. He got kind of blacklisted as I understand it.

Does a single immigration officer have the power to do this?

OP,

If not I would be issuing your student with a new set of visa documents immediately and if he is refused again I would be making a formal complaint from your company to the officer's seniors.

Oh really, you want me to fight with the immigration? I don't think I have a desire to do that. This is the very first case and pushing the case might just make someone more angry.

[saroq]

If only the officers in Europe could do the same!

Yes add a long list of other Western counties to Europe to your comment and it's spot on.

Edited June 5, 2013 by saroq

[MJCM]

The student will not be blacklisted, that is a whole process that includes very senior officials and carries an appeal.

Which is not to say the student can try to extend.

That is why Mario I said kind of blacklisted, lets call it unofficial blacklisting by the officer, he is not going to get an extension in Bangkok anymore. I really don't think he will. Perhaps in another immigration office.

Kind of blacklisted?

Is that like being kind of pregnant?

For the lack of a better word. Unofficially blacklisted in the local immigration office. Local form of blacklisting blacklisted.

Rename it to; Not very welcome in that particular Immigration office anymore !!

[jrtmedic]

saroq

Barrack room lawyers and bar stool barristers always "know the law" until it hits them on the nose !

[MacWalen]

Perfect MJCM, thanks. I was never very gifted with words.

[saroq]

Awful behavior from a professional government officer!!

She should be reprimanded and demoted to an inactive position.

A guest in this coubtry here studying the language takes a day out to extend their visa with all the correct documents and is told to leave and get them all again because she doesn't like the look of them.

It beggars belief! What a country!

What a post! It beggars belief!

[jrtmedic]

Have enjoyed the debate but the "boss" (my wife) reminds me that we have to go out !

Later!

[MJCM]

Perfect MJCM, thanks. I was never very gifted with words.

In my case, it has nothing to do with being gifted with words but a combination of Beer Chang and a good Dictionary

[Mr lamai]

What about the longsleeve shirt and jeans when entering immigrationoffice? Gosh there was an touristguide called lonelyplanet before the onlinebooking webpages. To many aliens enter this godforsaken country nowdays without any knowhow. Bug of or get a common sense!!

[MacWalen]

She called the school to inform that there is no need to issue the

student a new set of the documents as his ED visa will not be extended

anymore. He got kind of blacklisted as I understand it.

Does a single immigration officer have the power to do this?

OP,

If not I would be issuing your student with a new set of visa documents immediately and if he is refused again I would be making a formal complaint from your company to the officer's seniors.

Oh really, you want me to fight with the immigration? I don't think I have a desire to do that. This is the very first case and pushing the case might just make someone more angry.

No, I would stand up for your paying customer who had every document required.

We got a call specifically regarding that particular student. Situation must have been upsetting enough to make an effort to call our school to inform that that student is "not very welcome in that particular Immigration office anymore !!"

[manarak]

She called the school to inform that there is no need to issue the

student a new set of the documents as his ED visa will not be extended

anymore. He got kind of blacklisted as I understand it.

Does a single immigration officer have the power to do this?

OP,

If not I would be issuing your student with a new set of visa documents immediately and if he is refused again I would be making a formal complaint from your company to the officer's seniors.

Oh really, you want me to fight with the immigration? I don't think I have a desire to do that. This is the very first case and pushing the case might just make someone more angry.

No, I would stand up for your paying customer who had every document required.

I can't understand you Salapoo

[saroq]

saroq

Barrack room lawyers and bar stool barristers always "know the law" until it hits them on the nose !

I don't understand why I'm featured in this post of yours. Which post of mine are you referring to?

[chrisinth]

Denying an extension because of (alleged) rudeness is a gross abuse of authority.

Yes it is.

>Here, though, that does not surprise me.

No it doesn't.

How many other locals who don't have the same power would love to do the same to us I wonder.

Reverse the scenario. Put yourself in the immigration lady's position and ask yourself honestly, how you would react to someone throwing water damaged paperwork at you, accompanied by verbal and stupid faces being pulled.

If you had the power, how would you react?

I know exactly what I would do, and it would be along the lines of what happened.................... I can't for the life of me understand that some posters see this as an abuse of authority!

For all the people who are currently on Ed visas, it is idiots like this who are screwing it all up for you. Perhaps as part of the joining routine, the language schools should point this out to the students attending (or sometimes attending) so that any unneccessary focus to this type of visa may be nipped in the bud.

[sustento]

When you go for a visa the immigration officer is the one who has the rubber stamp. If you really want that visa best to be nice.

[delh]

I don't really get why you would conclude we are "guests" in this country because of that immigration incident. It's pretty obvious the immigration police have great power over us foreigners, and it is foolish not to adopt a kowtow like attitude towards them in this culture, but I don't see the connection to the guests rhetoric.

It is THEIR country, they do not HAVE TO ALLOW you to take advantage of their beautiful country and weather, lovely people, and most importantly... the ability of your CASH to allow you to live so much better in their country than many of their citizens! Show a bit of respect.

Well Said. There are already more than enough badly behaved farangs.

[BradinAsia]

I don't really get why you would conclude we are "guests" in this country because of that immigration incident. It's pretty obvious the immigration police have great power over us foreigners, and it is foolish not to adopt a kowtow like attitude towards them in this culture, but I don't see the connection to the guests rhetoric.

I don't really get why you would conclude we are "guests" in this country because of that immigration incident. It's pretty obvious the immigration police have great power over us foreigners, and it is foolish not to adopt a kowtow like attitude towards them in this culture, but I don't see the connection to the guests rhetoric.

Pardon my impudence, but this use of the term kowtow is a bit much, really. Normally, what

more is needed for a smooth transaction other than a genuine smile and a bit of politeness?

A kowtowing attitude would surely be a bit ludicrous and maybe even distracting.

As an example, just today I got my new drivers license at the DLT office. These folks (just like

the immigration folks) have to deal with the public day after day. Anyone who has worked in a

public service type job knows very well how gruesome it can be at times.

All three ladies who helped me today were polite, friendly and efficient. The lady who took my

photo seemed to thoroughly enjoy a brief chat with me about Thai history.

When I got my DL and thanked her, I'm sure she had the same amiable feeling that I had.

Edited June 5, 2013 by BradinAsia

[menorah]

I don't really get why you would conclude we are "guests" in this country because of that immigration incident. It's pretty obvious the immigration police have great power over us foreigners, and it is foolish not to adopt a kowtow like attitude towards them in this culture, but I don't see the connection to the guests rhetoric.

When you applied for your visa, of whatever description, you supplied requested information to the 'Host Country's' immigration department. In short you asked, "Please may I come in?" and they said, "why should we let you come in?" On appraisal of the requested info' they said "Yes".A guest if ever there was!

We can discuss semantics 'until the cows come home' but a guest is someone who enjoys the moment for as long as he/she makes themselves welcome. If found to be acting otherwise, like any guest, expect to be asked or made to leave.

Take a look at your own country's guidelines to immigration and you'll quickly see immigration officers have discretion to act similarly if the foreigner is contemptuous of requests for correctly presented documentation or behaves in a fashion likely to be offensive or unlawful.

I personally use Immigration at Nakhon Sawan and have never felt obliged to Kowtow, quite the opposite, they're approachable and helpful to the extreme....must be something about you!!!

[transam]

Unfortunately we are all...........................

in LOS and should remember that when dealing with officialdom. Takes a bit of getting used too but it's easy.

[Hillman321]

"A visa generally gives non-citizens clearance to enter a country and to remain there within specified constraints, such as a time frame for entry, a limit on the time spent in the country, and a prohibition against employment. The possession of a visa is not in itself a guarantee of entry into the country that issued it, and a visa can be revoked at any time."

Clearly means you are a GUEST given the PRIVILEGE to enter any country.

If one goes to the DMV to transact business and the paperwork is deemed unsatisfactory you have one alternative. Provide acceptable paperwork. The official made a reasonable request. Get acceptable paperwork. She even told the person in question HOW to get it. The reaction by the student was "take it or leave it." She made her choice.

Arrogant tourists make things worse for the rest of us. My Thai friends REFUSE to use the word "farang" towards me even as a joke. (They DO use it for others) My father taught me long ago "To get respect you first have to GIVE it". He lived in Thailand for several years. He never had any problem. He was never fluent in Thai nor am I. We both learned that TRYING to learn is showing respect.

If the student had adopted an apologetic attitude about the condition of the papers she MIGHT have even accepted them. "I am so sorry about the condition of these papers, I will get new ones if you really need me to". THAT is not "kowtowing'. That is recognizing a possible problem and addressing it first and politely.

[culicine]

I hope the Immigration Officer spoke to the applicant in Thai.

Walen guarantees rapid results !

And one would hope that said student responded in Thai...

McWalen would do well to integrate a knowledge of Thai culture into their language lessons. Such incidents are totally avoidable. Losing it at an immigration officer is about the dumbest thing one can do.