Where And Why Thais Study Abroad

[samran]

This seems to be turning quite nasty (which is often the way of thaivisa!)

I will probably get stung for dipping my toe in here (with regards the the "honesty" point).

Personally i have found that as a nation in general, lies (or not 100% truths, for a better way of putting it), is considered to be less of a big deal than in many other countries.

I am speaking in general terms. Of course i have extremely honest Thai friends, and i also believe the majority of thai people would do nothing to intentionally harm or offend. (which is maybe why "untruths" are told in some cases..because they wish to protect the other person from being possibly offended or upset, or wish to protect themselves from losing face).

In some cases unneccessary lies are told, such as where did you go (they went to the river, but will say they went to the market)..only because i think they just say whatever for conversation sake.

But i do believe in general Thai culture allows for twisting the truth or even making things up, often for absolutely no reason, and its accepted as just the way it is.

My apologies if my own thoughts on this offends.

.. its very very veryyyy off-topic now.

Thoughtful - and what you describe are the cultural nuances. What you've said though isn't a carte blance spray on 60 million plus people.

[Cluey]

But i do believe in general Thai culture allows for twisting the truth or even making things up, often for absolutely no reason, and its accepted as just the way it is.

-

I agree this is a Thai cultural difference, and one that causes westerners to say silly things like "most Thais are dishonest".

When one steals or lies in order to cause harm, that counts in my book. Lying to keep your privacy or to keep the social waters smooth is not significant enough to worry about, and in fact most people back home aren't such dogmatic truth-tellers either.

Sharp practices in business are of course the norm, but back home mostly done by the largest most protected businesses with impunity defrauding the whole community, rather than by the average joe small business.

Once you know how this culture operates and can protect yourself from the newbies' pitfalls it's best to just accept the way things are in order to enjoy your time here, moral outrage and contempt for the locals doesn't help anything or anyone.

[cpofc]

just to add, about the 'rush' to study overseas and or learn English, compared to how things were 20 years ago.

its was not just Thailand's emergence from the third world, booming in manufacturing, trade and its progression towards a fully fledged democracy

The Computer Age played a huge part, if not the major part. IMHO. For as everyone knows that English is the international business language (at least for now), and the computer language was nothing but English. And the two went hand in hand. I remember back in the 80s when the French Government called all it academics and educators into a forum to invent and add words to the French Dictionary to cater for the computer age.

The Thais realised this very quickly, they are not a stupid race of people, and the race was on. In the Mid 90's when one walked into a Dept Store or Book Shop one was greeted at the door with an enormous rack of English Grammar Books on the Left, and Computer Books and manuals on the right. English language schools rapidly proliferated around the Kingdom. Thailand was either the first, or at least one of the very first Sth East, or even, Asian Countries on the Internet! beating most in Europe too!

I remember the great love many ordinary Thais had for Taksin when he first became PM. One of the things that impressed the Thais so much, was not just his command of English, but how he used it on the International Political Stage. he didn't take shit and could do it in English. (no I don't want to start a political debate thank you). And then there is Eton and Oxford Educated Abisit.

If you can get a decent English Education whilst at the same time living in a native English speaking country you have a great head start in life as a Thai Citizen. Generally, I find mostly, that Thais, hold other Thais, who can speak English, in high regard.

Of course this could change in the future as the decline of the West and the rise of the East continues.

[BlackArtemis]

Asked my girlfriend about he MA from Sweden, she told me the Swedish government allowed her to put off paying it back for a few years (like a year after graduation) and has just begun to pay it back. She is on the hook for the full bill, no scholarship.

[MrJohnson]

Rough statistics on the numbers of Thai students who went
abroad in 2011/12

US - > 7500 – (U.S. Institute of International Education)

UK >6200 – (British Council)

Australia > 5000 – (Australian Education International)

NB – these are commencements as opposed to enrolments i.e.

these are new students starting a course in this yearly period.

These are the top three destinations for Thai students.
Canada and NZ are also popular. In terms of overall numbers of students
studying abroad globally you might be surprised to learn that it is in the
vicinity of 4,000,000. The majority of students studying abroad are from China
and India and the majority are aged between 16 and 24. Overall Germany and
France come at number 4 and number 5 respectively in terms of popularity. This
may be so because many students from the U.S., Canada and Northern Europe do a
study abroad semester and Germany and France are very popular destinations.

The most popular courses are business related i.e. accounting
business, commerce, economics etc. followed by engineering, law and computing.

Why do Thai students study abroad? Lots of reasons probably but would include;

Improve English language skills

The prestige of an overseas education

Improve overall communication skills

‘Right of passage’.

Without wanting to get into the debate on this thread regarding the 'genuineness' or otherwise of Thai students studying abroad I think it fair to say that the majority are genuine in that they are going abroad to study. Sure, they might work part time and in many countries their visas allow them to do that. However, this work experience is often extremely valuable in terms of helping young students develop generic work skills like punctuality, communications and self-organization. For many Thai students they may never have worked before at home in Thailand.

Personally, I think a study abroad experience for anyone can be a hugely rewarding and valuable undertaking. .

[cpofc]

My wife's young partner in our Thai restaurant got married (in Australia) to a HK Chinese national. A good, decent bloke. They met when both were studying in Melbourne, her for her Masters, and him for an Engineering Degree. They were the perfect couple to sign up as Oz Cits! A hassle for him taking her back to HK and vice versa. So Australia welcomed them with open arms. Ning went on to become a Thai Restauranteur in her own right, and her chinese husband finished his degree in engineering and got a job with a large suburban, local government office in Melbourne. Being Local Government, and him being HK Chinese, there was a clash of work ethic. Whilst not meaning too, he basically embarrassed the shit out of them all. In the end his peers at work made things so bad for him he was forced to leave and went into the full time thai restaurant business as a husband and wife team.

[boosta]

and her chinese husband finished his degree in engineering and got a job with a large suburban, local government office in Melbourne. Being Local Government, and him being HK Chinese, there was a clash of work ethic.

-

May not be as obvious to some but you mean of course that he enjoyed working much harder than the locals right?

[hawthorne]

California has a large Asian population which offers support to Asian students which make it more attractive part of the US. Not even considering the cost of living in California. The big Universities rely on foreigners to pay the higher tuition fees so the Liberal Arts teachers can continue to make more money teaching than they ever could at a real job. Never understood why an English degree should cost as much as say a Nursing degree, Engineering science based degree. Getting off topic...

I am seeing more countries investing more money into their own high education system because of so many going aboard plus the cheaper countries can try to attract foreigners to their system for business similar to the Medical Tourism trades which India is perfecting and Thailand is doing ok but not on the same scale of India. Going back to Univiersities for profit UAE has a long term goal of building 90 universities to attract foreign students and money. Presently Sorbonne University is in Abu Dhabi as well as NYU and so many others. The tourist countries can include one more attraction now!!!! The cost of the construction, cost of living( boarding) and staff salaries will be lower reducing the capital and operational cost to the Universities in turn they can attract students who can not afford to go aboard to the costlier countries.

[boosta]

I have yet to see a western school or universities overseas branch - usually a partnership with a local outfit or even locally-operated pure licensing franchise - that is as good as the original.

High-end academics is one employment area that has been internationally competitive for a long time, especially in the more valuable "hard" disciplines, so especially in places like UAE/Abu Dhabi there aren't any cost advantages at all, except to the local families, in fact most western locations are actually far cheaper places for living expenses and of course the cultural immersion advantage is a major attraction (or threat to some).

Places like Webster, a US institution which operates in Thailand as well as many other spots in Europe allows students to freely transfer from one campus to the other, all students worldwide receiving the same degree and transcripts. Even though in that particular case the resulting degree is less than a stellar qualification by western standards, I think that system works well as a model and truly world-class schools should figure out how to do the same and still maintain quality.

Combining that with the now massively accelerating trend for online learning replacing lectures pioneered by MIT and now joined by Princeton Stanford Duke now even Harvard Yale UC Berkeley (google "MOOC") has the potential to provide a truly revolutionary opportunity for intelligent and ambitious students no matter where they are in the world.

Edited June 14, 2013 by boosta

[StreetCowboy]

California has a large Asian population which offers support to Asian students which make it more attractive part of the US. Not even considering the cost of living in California. The big Universities rely on foreigners to pay the higher tuition fees so the Liberal Arts teachers can continue to make more money teaching than they ever could at a real job. Never understood why an English degree should cost as much as say a Nursing degree, Engineering science based degree. Getting off topic...

I am seeing more countries investing more money into their own high education system because of so many going aboard plus the cheaper countries can try to attract foreigners to their system for business similar to the Medical Tourism trades which India is perfecting and Thailand is doing ok but not on the same scale of India. Going back to Univiersities for profit UAE has a long term goal of building 90 universities to attract foreign students and money. Presently Sorbonne University is in Abu Dhabi as well as NYU and so many others. The tourist countries can include one more attraction now!!!! The cost of the construction, cost of living( boarding) and staff salaries will be lower reducing the capital and operational cost to the Universities in turn they can attract students who can not afford to go aboard to the costlier countries.

The cost of living is only lower if you employ locals; almost invariably, expats cost more overseas than they cost in their own country - unless you want to select staff based on whether they want to work in Thailand, rather than on quality... The secondary campuses lose out becuase the quality of the institution is based on the quality of its staff, not its name or its QA System (unlike Mcdonalds .. sadly, university education is not so easily replicated)

SC

[PaullyW]

they are not as honest as others that's rubbish. some are honest but the majority are full of it.

Clearly you just don't have a clue how to read people if that is you conclusion. That, and you don't get out much.

What the frack does reading people have to do with honesty? If someone is being honest, it is the truth and how it is interpreted is irrelevant.

[StreetCowboy]

they are not as honest as others that's rubbish. some are honest but the majority are full of it.

Clearly you just don't have a clue how to read people if that is you conclusion. That, and you don't get out much.

What the frack does reading people have to do with honesty? If someone is being honest, it is the truth and how it is interpreted is irrelevant.

If you don't try to understand, you'll never be able to overcome your prejudices.

SC

[kannot]

I think deep down the Thais with education send their kids abroad as they know the education here is crap, possibly also the beliefs, but of course like many things they just cant stand up and say it publicly.

[Schillaci]

Old money goes to England

New money goes to the US

No money to Australia.

More seriously, the Thai civil service sends many many hundreds of new promising grads overseas each year, not only to these countries, but also to places like Canada, Japan, France, Switzerland and Germany.

not with the living costs of australia they aint.

most of the thais i know who have gone overseas have done so primarily to work and so they can 'check-in' on facebook. Study is just something they have to do to get the visa.

[Kitsune]

Old money goes to England

New money goes to the US

No money to Australia.

More seriously, the Thai civil service sends many many hundreds of new promising grads overseas each year, not only to these countries, but also to places like Canada, Japan, France, Switzerland and Germany.

not with the living costs of australia they aint.

most of the thais i know who have gone overseas have done so primarily to work and so they can 'check-in' on facebook. Study is just something they have to do to get the visa.

what do you mean checking on FB??

[Slip]

I've got to be honest, I'm all in favour of Thais studying abroad, in fact the more people exposed to another culture the better. I would just prefer that the Thais don't go about setting up brothels and threatening lecturers with bats if they get bad grades.

Too much to ask?

I don't really think it's fair to have one set of rules for locals and another for visiting students.

[Slip]

I've got to be honest, I'm all in favour of Thais studying abroad, in fact the more people exposed to another culture the better. I would just prefer that the Thais don't go about setting up brothels and threatening lecturers with bats if they get bad grades.

Too much to ask?

I don't really think it's fair to have one set of rules for locals and another for visiting students.

EDIT- sorry forgot this very important emoticon

[Kitsune]

I've got to be honest, I'm all in favour of Thais studying abroad, in fact the more people exposed to another culture the better. I would just prefer that the Thais don't go about setting up brothels and threatening lecturers with bats if they get bad grades.

Too much to ask?

I don't really think it's fair to have one set of rules for locals and another for visiting students.

EDIT- sorry forgot this very important emoticon

that changes everything !

[Slip]

Of course, welcome back to the forum.

[Kitsune]

Of course, welcome back to the forum.

did not realize I had gone

[boosta]

I have yet to see a western school or universities overseas branch - usually a partnership with a local outfit or even locally-operated pure licensing franchise - that is as good as the original.

High-end academics is one employment area that has been internationally competitive for a long time, especially in the more valuable "hard" disciplines, so especially in places like UAE/Abu Dhabi there aren't any cost advantages at all, except to the local families, in fact most western locations are actually far cheaper places for living expenses and of course the cultural immersion advantage is a major attraction (or threat to some).

Places like Webster, a US institution which operates in Thailand as well as many other spots in Europe allows students to freely transfer from one campus to the other, all students worldwide receiving the same degree and transcripts. Even though in that particular case the resulting degree is less than a stellar qualification by western standards, I think that system works well as a model and truly world-class schools should figure out how to do the same and still maintain quality.

Combining that with the now massively accelerating trend for online learning replacing lectures pioneered by MIT and now joined by Princeton Stanford Duke now even Harvard Yale UC Berkeley (google "MOOC") has the potential to provide a truly revolutionary opportunity for intelligent and ambitious students no matter where they are in the world.

-

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