Want the truth about Thailand? Look abroad

[davehowden]

hanuman2543

But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

Do you have any idea of the role that the CIA have been playing; at a very very high level; in the politics of this country for the last 60 or so years?

Edited June 12, 2013 by davehowden

[Time Traveller]

Could feeling the need to post over 13k propaganda posts per day be a sign of desparation?

And the fact that "article 112" defendants get denied bail. While murderers and drug kingpins are routinely allowed out on bail for years before appearing in court. Apparently speech and ideas are more dangerous to this country than violent crimes. It's like there's a big secret that they don't want anyone to know about. Well, people do know.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Time Traveller

[joeaverage]

The lese majeste law has been there for many years and should be well known to everyone by now, it is a law that was enacted to protect the royal family.

Whether they need that protection or not is another thing but it is the law so there is no reason to break it.

.

Possibly a greater problem in this country are the recent threats and intimidation against anyone or any group who speaks out against the Government.

Even going so far as to have the red shirts attempt to break up any meetings held by the opposition.

The latest attempt going so far as to fire missiles which caused injury.

And this, as we can see from another topic today, virtually condoned by a government spokesman who said it was the oppositions own fault they were attacked.

This to me is indeed a far greater problem as the actions of the Government are directly against democracy and freedom of speech.

Meaning it is the Government who are breaking the law not those who are speaking out.

so the fact that a law is old validates it? SHould laws not be reviewed in a current context?

[A Member]

One advantage of having an electorate with little or no lingua franca skills is that they rarely if ever get to hear criticism of their government from abroad.

Not so dumb after all!

If reports from correspondents based in Thailand start to annoy will the government react ? I can recall when Mr. T was in the chair he expelled two reporters from Asiaweek and I think it was about the monarchy but am very happy to be corrected.

It was Far Eastern Economic Review (FEER) from memory that Thaksin attempted to kick out two journalists I believe this quote from the Nation sums it up:

"Thaksin said his government did not have to explain to the US the Thai police decision to expel two foreign journalists from the Far Eastern Economic Review (FEER) on grounds that their article threatened Thailand's national security. Thaksin also reiterated that the government had not been involved in the police decision to take action against the FEER journalists. US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said yesterday in Washington that US ambassador to Thailand Darryl Johnson had raised the issue of the threat to deport the foreign journalists, one of whom is an American, in a meeting in Bangkok with Thaksin last Friday. Thai police blacklisted the FEER journalists following a column in the January 10 edition reporting tension between the prime minister and the Royal Palace. "We are concerned about the prospect that Thailand may bar certain journalists from working in or entering the country for publishing reports that were critical of the government," Boucher said. On Friday FEER's Bangkok bureau chief Shawn Crispin, 33, an American citizen, and correspondent Rodney Tasker, 56, a British national, appealed the police order that asked them to leave the country. Police said their working visas had already been revoked. The order has sparked an outcry from local and foreign media as well as non-government groups over press freedom. Several Thai senators also said the move destroyed the country's reputation as a strong supporter of free speech. Thai police have called on the magazine to either apologise or correct the article to prevent the two journalists being expelled. In a telephone interview with The Nation yesterday, FEER editor Michael Vatikiotis said he was willing to apologise or correct any errors if Thai authorities explicitly indicated what the publication had done wrong. "There have been no specifics from the government on why it is a threat, and most of what we have learned came from media reports and a single letter from the police," he said."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Thaksin-hits-back-at-US-concern-56248.html

Thanks for that, good to have clarification

[hanuman2543]

hanuman2543

But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

Do you have any idea of the role that the CIA have been playing; at a very very high level; in the politics of this country for the last 60 or so years?

Yes I have, but that's not what I meant. The Thai Army and their symbiotic interaction with the US is a complete different story than foreigners executing their right of freedom of speech here.

[JetsetBkk]

Many of the postings were made under different aliases to appear as if they were part of a coordinated and systemic intervention

Isn't there a "not" missing here?

[OzMick]

Could feeling the need to post over 13k propaganda posts per day be a sign of desparation?

And the fact that "article 112" defendants get denied bail. While murderers and drug kingpins are routinely allowed out on bail for years before appearing in court. Apparently speech and ideas are more dangerous to this country than violent crimes. It's like there's a big secret that they don't want anyone to know about. Well, people do know.

"Ideas are like weapons. We don't let our enemies have weapons, why should we let them have ideas?"

Can't remember who said it (Castro??), probably mangled, but the thought is right.

Edited June 12, 2013 by OzMick

[davehowden]

hanuman2543

I was not talking about the Thai Army!!

[jpinx]

"There's something wrong with a society where foreigners are at greater liberty to talk about the problems of that society than locals, where debates and arguments on virtual reality tells us more about the truth of that society."

Very true, time that Thai people realise this. Time for courageous citizens to speak up. Sadly a very rare species in the Land of Cowards.

Why don't you speak up and set an example for them?

As you can read in the article my homecountry did exactly that and the whole complex of the monarchy and the lese majeste laws must be solved by the Thais themselves. It is their country and their head of state. And I will speak up here as long as it concerns me or my family. But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

For "foreigner" in the above quote - you can include the UN, NATO, EU, ASEAN, and any other body which is not actually Thai.

I believe His Majesty the King has commented on his willingness to be criticised, but the government has not enacted those wishes. Now it appears that the Lese Majeste laws are actually being used to protect the gorvernment and military from criticism.

The Thai people have a truly amazing monarch and it is a shame that they do not listen to what he has been recommending for many years about how to live peacefully and well.

Edited June 12, 2013 by jpinx

[jpinx]

hanuman2543

But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

Do you have any idea of the role that the CIA have been playing; at a very very high level; in the politics of this country for the last 60 or so years?

Yes I have, but that's not what I meant. The Thai Army and their symbiotic interaction with the US is a complete different story than foreigners executing their right of freedom of speech here.

Please respect the laws of the country you are in - not the country you came from.

[FarangTalk]

hanuman2543

But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

Do you have any idea of the role that the CIA have been playing; at a very very high level; in the politics of this country for the last 60 or so years?

Well said, since the end of WWII the US has been instrumental in Thailand's affairs, including their foreign policy. Before WWII it was the British and their presence in the region that kept the French at bay.

[FarangTalk]

Usually, the majority of and certainly the most vocal fawning and repetition of historical lies and historical figures is done by those with the least grasp of real Thai history, including a large part of the expat community and the Thais themselves.

As the title infers, you must also read the history of the nation written from outside the country to learn the entire truth of it, I can't think of another nation where this applies so aptly but to Thailand.

It stands to reason that if this fragile balance between lie and truth exists as a careful creation of a mythology that has been purposely created, maintained and is still perpetrated in the media here, that it would be policed and controlled in such a manner.

Welcome to 1984.

[Tomtomtom69]

This country is not interested in foreigners', especially westerner's, opinions. They are at the very least inconvenient, usually annoying and mostly offensive to them.

I think what you are trying to say is that Thai's believe they are above criticism or don't like to be criticized. However, I think the way you have worded your response would make one reading your comment believe that Thai's would listen to criticism from foreigners from countries like Myanmar, China, Vietnam, Japan? I don't think so! If anything the poorer neighboring countries' citizens will just be dismissed as being from poor, inferior countries who know nothing! As for criticism from Japan, Thais would be just as unlikely to listen as criticism from a westerner citing reasons that they don't know Thailand, blah blah blah.

In other words, you should have said that Thais are unlikely to be receptive to criticism from foreigners in general.

[billd766]

Could feeling the need to post over 13k propaganda posts per day be a sign of desparation?

And the fact that "article 112" defendants get denied bail. While murderers and drug kingpins are routinely allowed out on bail for years before appearing in court. Apparently speech and ideas are more dangerous to this country than violent crimes. It's like there's a big secret that they don't want anyone to know about. Well, people do know.

"Ideas are like weapons. We don't let our enemies have weapons, why should we let them have ideas?"

Can't remember who said it (Castro??), probably mangled, but the thought is right.

It was that fine upstanding gentleman and world leader "Cuddly Uncle" Joe Stalin.

There are many more quotes here too.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joseph_stalin.html

[winstonc]

i dont have a problem with this law its proper for its purpose i think,,,,,

Edited June 12, 2013 by winstonc

[Donnie Brasco]

And conversely: Want the Truth about your own Country? Deconstruct and Extrapolate from Thailand.

[Emdog]

I am surprised the subject can even come up. I would suggest being careful, for the argument that the army has to resort to this activity implies something negative on the status of royalty here could be made. Was it a few years ago when some senator said Taksin's plane was better than the Kings, and he was charged?

[winstonc]

hanuman2543

But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

Do you have any idea of the role that the CIA have been playing; at a very very high level; in the politics of this country for the last 60 or so years?

so its not thaksins fault then,phew and there was me thinking,,,,,,,,,,,,,time for an anti usa thread then eh,,,???

[Trembly]

The unit, based in Narathiwat province, stated on its website that it

has posted 1.69 million messages in the four-month period between June

and September last year.

I'm sorry?? There is an army unit whose job is to post thousands of messages daily in praise of HM King?

At first I thought that this story was from 'Not The Nation'

Although I'm treading on delicate ground with my comments, it should be noted that HM King has personally stated that He is not above criticism. Clearly, the vast majority of Thais (and many foreigners, including myself), love HM King.

A democracy allows others to dissent.

Anyway, this is a difficult subject to discuss, but I think it is ludicrous to employ army personal to post pro-monarchy messages all day.

Simon

The CIA has similar units. So does the PLA, Mossad, FSB . . . etc.

The Voice of America radio station in Nong Khai was always joked about by foreigners as being a CIA operation but years ago the name was changed to Radio Free Asia or something similar. I have no idea if the message it broadcasts has changed also.

Many a true word . . .

[HUAHIN62]

The unit, based in Narathiwat province, stated on its website that it

has posted 1.69 million messages in the four-month period between June

and September last year.

I'm sorry?? There is an army unit whose job is to post thousands of messages daily in praise of HM King?

At first I thought that this story was from 'Not The Nation'

Although I'm treading on delicate ground with my comments, it should be noted that HM King has personally stated that He is not above criticism. Clearly, the vast majority of Thais (and many foreigners, including myself), love HM King.

A democracy allows others to dissent.

Anyway, this is a difficult subject to discuss, but I think it is ludicrous to employ army personal to post pro-monarchy messages all day.

Simon

Simon you are correct the King in a TV program stated that the LM laws caused more harm than good for the royal family and that no one should be above criticism. Unfortunately there are some that use the LM laws as weapons against their political enemies.

I sometimes wondered if many posts/comments on forums such as Bangkok Post was for real, now I know who was posting these comments.

[Trembly]

Pasting these messages where?

One would assume newsgroups, forums etc where news and the monarchy is discussed as well as Facebook and Youtube.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And where exactly would these websites be on the web, in Thailand where people actively discuss the monarchy? They are all largely blocked. I have a feeling that these guys have been talking to themselves. Do you really believe that they spam sites discussing royalty, 13000 times a day?

Web forums similar to Thaivisa for Thais do exist. The IT guy at the last place I worked showed them to me. Some are blocked intermittently, some have managed to completely avoid blocking altogether, but all have large numbers of users who are willing to earnestly discuss some very sensitive topics indeed.

[Freedomfighter]

Remember the Thai-American citizen a couple of years back who was arrested at Survnabumi airport upon his arrival?

His crime? Translating from English to Thai a book 'banned' in Thailand, but available elsewhere (like the USA). His activities were lawful under USA laws, but yet when he arrived here he was arrested, charged, and sentenced to 2 years in jail for a crime he did not commit on Thai soil.

After 8-9 months languishing in a Thai jail, and protests from the US Ambassador, The wise King pardoned him.

My question is, where do Thai authorities get the 'right' to arrest foreign citizens for doing lawful acts in their own countries? Look at the BIB doing the 'drug testing' on foreigners at clubs, discos and on the city's streets.

If you just arrived from Amsterdam, of any other enlightened country with liberal drug laws, and you get tested here, you know the rest of the story. Asinine indeed.

I wonder what the Thai reaction would be if Thai nationals were arrested in other countries for violating copyright laws, illegal street vending, prostitution and a whole slew of other offenses.

[Thai at Heart]

Pasting these messages where?

One would assume newsgroups, forums etc where news and the monarchy is discussed as well as Facebook and Youtube.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And where exactly would these websites be on the web, in Thailand where people actively discuss the monarchy? They are all largely blocked. I have a feeling that these guys have been talking to themselves. Do you really believe that they spam sites discussing royalty, 13000 times a day?

Web forums similar to Thaivisa for Thais do exist. The IT guy at the last place I worked showed them to me. Some are blocked intermittently, some have managed to completely avoid blocking altogether, but all have large numbers of users who are willing to earnestly discuss some very sensitive topics indeed.

I know, but I think you will find that very little ever goes to a point where the Army needs to post 13000 positive posts per day. If, by definition, they are doing this to counter anti-monarchy sentiment, presumably they should report the websites and get them closed down anyway.

[EvilDrSomkid]

This country is not interested in foreigners', especially westerner's, opinions. They are at the very least inconvenient, usually annoying and mostly offensive to them.

I think what you are trying to say is that Thai's believe they are above criticism or don't like to be criticized. However, I think the way you have worded your response would make one reading your comment believe that Thai's would listen to criticism from foreigners from countries like Myanmar, China, Vietnam, Japan? I don't think so! If anything the poorer neighboring countries' citizens will just be dismissed as being from poor, inferior countries who know nothing! As for criticism from Japan, Thais would be just as unlikely to listen as criticism from a westerner citing reasons that they don't know Thailand, blah blah blah.

In other words, you should have said that Thais are unlikely to be receptive to criticism from foreigners in general.

I did say that. I said 'foreigners' which means any, albeit with an emphasis on westerners.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Remember the Thai-American citizen a couple of years back who was arrested at Survnabumi airport upon his arrival?

His crime? Translating from English to Thai a book 'banned' in Thailand, but available elsewhere (like the USA). His activities were lawful under USA laws, but yet when he arrived here he was arrested, charged, and sentenced to 2 years in jail for a crime he did not commit on Thai soil.

After 8-9 months languishing in a Thai jail, and protests from the US Ambassador, The wise King pardoned him.

My question is, where do Thai authorities get the 'right' to arrest foreign citizens for doing lawful acts in their own countries? Look at the BIB doing the 'drug testing' on foreigners at clubs, discos and on the city's streets.

If you just arrived from Amsterdam, of any other enlightened country with liberal drug laws, and you get tested here, you know the rest of the story. Asinine indeed.

I wonder what the Thai reaction would be if Thai nationals were arrested in other countries for violating copyright laws, illegal street vending, prostitution and a whole slew of other offenses.

His crime was that he released these translated chapters from the unmentionable book in Thailand. Which is illegal according to article 112.

I have read this book. It is definitely in violation of Art.112.

I would like to take this opportunity to commend the mods for allowing discussion of this topic.

Edited June 12, 2013 by EvilDrSomkid

[hanuman2543]

hanuman2543

I was not talking about the Thai Army!!

But I, because the generals run the show here, at least since 1932. Remember Phibun, Sarit and many more? Google is your friend

Edited June 12, 2013 by hanuman2543

[bangon04]

hanuman2543

But that a foreigner will make a change in Thai politic belongs to the fairytale section.

Do you have any idea of the role that the CIA have been playing; at a very very high level; in the politics of this country for the last 60 or so years?

Well said, since the end of WWII the US has been instrumental in Thailand's affairs, including their foreign policy. Before WWII it was the British and their presence in the region that kept the French at bay.

And during WWII the Thais did mostly what the Japanese told them to......with a few notable exceptions

[Bagwan]

This country is not interested in foreigners', especially westerner's, opinions. They are at the very least inconvenient, usually annoying and mostly offensive to them.

What do you expect from a country where the average IQ is so low and the degree of arrogance by those towards the top of the feeding chain so high?

[robertson468]

I think the Army have a Virus in their system .

I think the virus has an Army in it's system

[kimamey]

The lese majeste law has been there for many years and should be well known to everyone by now, it is a law that was enacted to protect the royal family.

Whether they need that protection or not is another thing but it is the law so there is no reason to break it.

.

Possibly a greater problem in this country are the recent threats and intimidation against anyone or any group who speaks out against the Government.

Even going so far as to have the red shirts attempt to break up any meetings held by the opposition.

The latest attempt going so far as to fire missiles which caused injury.

And this, as we can see from another topic today, virtually condoned by a government spokesman who said it was the oppositions own fault they were attacked.

This to me is indeed a far greater problem as the actions of the Government are directly against democracy and freedom of speech.

Meaning it is the Government who are breaking the law not those who are speaking out.

I believe that many red shirts want the removal of the LM laws but the PTP are understandably uncertain about doing this. The Democrats and other opposition groups are against this and use the monarchy as a sort of shield by claiming they have to protect the monarchy from the present government. I don't know what makes them think the government could get away with that even if they wanted to.

For once I'm with the red shirts.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Scott