Thai monks rebuked over 'ostentatious' jet ride

[kimamey]

Most enlightened Theravada monk in modern times Tangpulu Sayadaw from Burma not Thailand wore sunglasses all the time because he spent ten years meditating in a cave and his eyes lost the ability to adjust to light. He got to the United States in a jet as do thousands of monks every year.

This is fine. As is wearing eye glasses, hearing aids etc - it is even OK for monks to wear them during the day if the sun is bright, but not to own them and not to wear them just for beautification/flashness. They usually have umbrellas for the sun belonging to the temples (donated).

The sun glasses look a bit more than just eye protection don't they. The LV bag, if it's a fake as some have suggested would be theft of course so that's not right either. I suppose someone could have given them to him but then maybe that would be a good time for him to pass on some of the Buddhist teachings that are relevant.

[oldsailor35]

10 minutes ago on Thai TV. One monk caught with the luxury car tax scam, proudly showing his 4 cars collection (Benz, jaguar...). Another one was shown building a 70 million baht huge mansion. Reporters didn't say where the money was coming from but some member of the wat said he was a good monk. All is well then!

And that is the big question................Where is the money coming from ?

[khaowong1]

Referring to the video, he said the public reaction should depend on whether the monks chose to travel by private jet or if it was organised by followers.

They normally have luxury cars to drive around in...but that source has dried up so they had to fly instead

I get driven around in a 30 year old beat up nissan pick up truck that sometimes we have to push to start. So please stop with the "all monks" crap.

[Unkomoncents]

So how are Thailand's monks different than the pope?

The Pope is one man for a start - the head of the world's wealthiest most opulent church, the world's biggest denomination of the world's biggest religion - a church that does not abhor wealth or flashy shows (just walk into any Catholic cathedral) - the canon of the church is not against wealth, not against possessions, not against taking private jets (the Vatican owns a fleet!) The Pope is also the de facto King of the richest country (per head of capita) in the world.

Whereas, the Theravada monks are disallowed by precepts they swear to Buddha, Sangha and Dharma to uphold whilst a monk.

This is apples and hotdogs (pears were too close). A better comparison might be a Catholic monastic order such as Monks of St. Augustine (Ordo Sancti Augustini) which denies monks the right to person possessions.

Wow. Thanks for that clarification regarding the details of one delusion as compared with another.

Uncomon cents - given the cheap shot you pulled here -

asking for clarification

getting it

and having nothing more intelligent to offer than some negative blanket platitude in response to it

- I want to say thank you in advance for any and all time you heretofore refrain from trolling Thai Visa.

Sorry Seminomadic. I was making a point and didn't need a lecture concerning the Dharma and other differences between Buddhism and Catholicism. This was not a troll post. The line "This is apples and hotdogs..." is indicative of the author's failure to see the bigger picture. I realized my mistake (that the question I was posing would immediately prompt the TV education spigot) and tried to edit my post but it was too late. Time to start taking notes on how the Pope is different from a monk from the resident Buddhism Phd's.

[dighambara]

WARNING

Do keep in mind that Buddhism, along with the Thai monarchy, is one of the most respected social institutions in Thailand. Posts whose primary purpose is to be derogatory towards Buddhism in general or Thai Buddhism in particular are not welcome. Such posts will be edited or deleted immediately, and the member will be warned and/or suspended.

Such warnings should not be necessary, as any intelligent person will not defame another's beliefs.

Although T.I.T., most folks know when Manks are misbehaving, and 'Mai Bpen Rai'... Under Buddhist teachings, all worldy things are forbidden; TV, radios, cell phones, cigarettes, betel, money, vehicles, computers, etc...

[kimamey]

Good monks, bad monks, rich monks, poor monks......let them get on with it.

It's not my country I'm just a guest, so I couldn't care less if they travel by Rolls Royce and have wild parties every night. I don't care one iota care about things I can't change, particularly religion and strange beliefs in a foreign country. They have absolutely nothing to do with me or my life, never have done and never will do.

Thaivisa is a forum. A forum is a place where people exchange views. It isn't Thailand it's the internet. Many on here aren't even in Thailand. You can't change that. It has absolutely nothing to do with you or your life, never has done and never will do. You don't care one iota about it but you've graciously given your time and effort to tell us anyway.

Thank you very much.

[bigbamboo]

It's not unusual to see or read reports of a monk caught doing something wrong being immediately disrobed by the abbot of the nearest temple but those who go upmarket into accepting lavish gifts, considerations and other " major " no, no's etc.only get their knuckles wrapped especially if their devotees include politicians and other powerful people.

If you look at the 227 precepts monks have to observe, there are only four serious ones which result in disrobing. For other offences the monk just has to publicly confess his offence. This makes it difficult for the monastic authorities to take any meaningful action.

I don't know if the figure of 60,000 monks is accurate, but there used to be many, many more. This puts the authorities between a rock and a hard place regarding getting tough with monks.

So a monk is almost as Teflon plated as a politician.

[khaowong1]

Here is the website of this monk

http://en.luangpunenkham.com/about/history/brief/

Interesting article.. He's only been a monk for about 14 years. I suspect he is highly venerated in his home town. If this article posts in Thai, I suspect he will pick up about 20 thousand more followers. sadhu..

[khaowong1]

It's not unusual to see or read reports of a monk caught doing something wrong being immediately disrobed by the abbot of the nearest temple but those who go upmarket into accepting lavish gifts, considerations and other " major " no, no's etc.only get their knuckles wrapped especially if their devotees include politicians and other powerful people.

If you look at the 227 precepts monks have to observe, there are only four serious ones which result in disrobing. For other offences the monk just has to publicly confess his offence. This makes it difficult for the monastic authorities to take any meaningful action.

I don't know if the figure of 60,000 monks is accurate, but there used to be many, many more. This puts the authorities between a rock and a hard place regarding getting tough with monks.

So a monk is almost as Teflon plated as a politician.

They get quite a shock especially when they come to the US, and are treated like everyone else. Especially by the police. In Thailand the cops would never stop a monk for speeding. Most don't particularily like being treated like equals. LOL

[Thereisnoif]

Religions and money have been going hand in hand since the first conman met the first fool .

[katastrophic]

It seems religion is no less corrupt than politics.

Every day, I thank God I'm an atheist.

[Beetlejuice]

The jet was chartered by a devotee, so what`s the problem?

[wolf5370]

[ Unkomoncents, on 18th Jun 2013 - 13:39, Said:]

"

So how are Thailand's monks different than the pope?

"

The Pope is one man for a start - the head of the world's wealthiest most opulent church, the world's biggest denomination of the world's biggest religion - a church that does not abhor wealth or flashy shows (just walk into any Catholic cathedral) - the canon of the church is not against wealth, not against possessions, not against taking private jets (the Vatican owns a fleet!) The Pope is also the de facto King of the richest country (per head of capita) in the world.

Whereas, the Theravada monks are disallowed by precepts they swear to Buddha, Sangha and Dharma to uphold whilst a monk.

This is apples and hotdogs (pears were too close). A better comparison might be a Catholic monastic order such as Monks of St. Augustine (Ordo Sancti Augustini) which denies monks the right to person possessions.

Wow. Thanks for that clarification regarding the details of one delusion as compared with another.

Uncomon cents - given the cheap shot you pulled here -

asking for clarification

getting it

and having nothing more intelligent to offer than some negative blanket platitude in response to it

- I want to say thank you in advance for any and all time you heretofore refrain from trolling Thai Visa.

Sorry Seminomadic. I was making a point and didn't need a lecture concerning the Dharma and other differences between Buddhism and Catholicism. This was not a troll post. The line "This is apples and hotdogs..." is indicative of the author's failure to see the bigger picture. I realized my mistake (that the question I was posing would immediately prompt the TV education spigot) and tried to edit my post but it was too late. Time to start taking notes on how the Pope is different from a monk from the resident Buddhism Phd's.

Oh what a sorry little man you are. You directly quoted my post (which you of course removed from your sorry post above) with a direct question - to which I directly answered - as Seminomadic said, poor form to ask for clarification then attack when your request is met - your question is hardly a 'point' either, it fails to do so even as a rhetorical question (in which it should have been marked if that was so). If you really can't debate or discuss, and really have problems when people actually can qualify earlier post, then simply don't ask.

In actual fact I thought the question both serious and had merit (within the context of the thread), which was why I answered it as I did (with respect to the context).

I truly doubt it takes a PhD to baffle you!

[sirchai]

It seems religion is no less corrupt than politics.

Every day, I thank God I'm an atheist.

+ 1 I truly believe in your religion, as well. Imagine there's no heaven......

[khaowong1]

I have two comments. Firstly if Monks are going to France then it's probably better flying than walking - if the sponsors want to pay, then so what? Secondly, I don't believe these guys are monks. The chap at the back had longer hair than me! A Monk with a mustache? Nah..... It's a spoof designed to do exactly what it is doing - throwing the Monks "under the bus" for some reason

Thanks for the support. as to the long hair and mustache.. we shave our head once a month, on the full moon. some monks like to grow their hair long in between times, even growing a so so mustache. Us foreign monks have to shave every other day or so or we would look like hippies before the next full moon, Thai's not so much..

[Thereisnoif]

It seems religion is no less corrupt than politics.

Every day, I thank God I'm an atheist.

+ 1 I truly believe in your religion, as well. Imagine there's no heaven......

There is no heaven , no hell , no god, you only live once, so enjoy and het rid of that stupid mindset .

[Mampara]

Common guys, give it a brake and stop making a mountain out of a molehill, don't we have more important things to worry about than deciding whether its right or wrong for a monk to choose his travel mode?

[hyperdimension]

It reminds me of this monk in his 50M baht Rolls Royce.

From As the guns roar, feelings harden among border evacuees:

A famous local monk arrived in the afternoon in his new Bt50 million Rolls Royce to provide amulets and words of assurance to the mostly poor villagers.

[katastrophic]

It seems religion is no less corrupt than politics.

Every day, I thank God I'm an atheist.

+ 1 I truly believe in your religion, as well. Imagine there's no heaven......

There is no heaven , no hell , no god, you only live once, so enjoy and het rid of that stupid mindset .

What stupid mindset?

I said I was an atheist, the 'thank God' bit was meant to be humourous. Oh well.....

[JO1973]

I dont think any body could say anything bad about Buddhism in its self . It is well known to be the only teaching that can be proven to do what it say on the tin, I think even Einstein commented on that . The trouble is the culture itself in Thailand is changing Buddhism is becoming like all other religions . When walking into many temples one has to pass several "checkpoints collecting donations with all sorts of money spinning ideas to generate more cash. monks are obviously now expecting to be treated with the respect and better treatment for their position in the brotherhood.. The mods issued a warning about dont mention royalty or religion . neither are bad in principle but we can see the abuse of power by some involved in both;. the Thai general public I believe have just given up and accepted this is the Thai way and there is nothing anyone can do about it.... from my time in Thailand I think I have seen it worsen over the years , or maybe it has just become more noticeable or even less hidden.

"It is well known to be the only teaching that can be proven to do what it say on the tin,"

And how exactly did you come to this conclusion? The Pali canons are a pretty diverse set of teachings and the commentaries handed down since the First Buddhist Council include all manner of supernatural beings, sayings and beliefs.

What it comes down to is the way a religion's followers interpret its teachings. In the mid-1970s the Thai monk Kittiwuttho Bhikku gave a famous sermon titled "Killing Communists is not Demeritorious". He actually called for a 'holy war' against them. And he was a very well respected, politically influential monk with a huge following.

Buddhism and Buddhist practise entail a lot more than robes, incense and chants.

[pacovl46]

Here's my take on it:

Sunglasses: Absolutely necessary in a country like Thailand. I never leave my house without a pair!

Louis Vuitton bag: Most likely a fake. I really doubt that he spent 30K+ on a real one.

Jet: If someone offers him a ride in a jet why shouldn't he take the free ride? Better than having his temple pay for a regular ticket. Also, time is money, money is a luxury and we can't afford luxury! ;-)

Edited June 18, 2013 by pacovl46

[Payboy]

travelling with a Louis Vuitton luxury bag

Gotta keep up with the devil, (s)he wears Prada.

[JetsetBkk]

It reminds me of this monk in his 50M baht Rolls Royce.

From As the guns roar, feelings harden among border evacuees:

A famous local monk arrived in the afternoon in his new Bt50 million Rolls Royce to provide amulets and words of assurance to the mostly poor villagers.

Si Sa Ket again.

[Fookhaht]

i read in the article that they flew from Bkk to Si Sa Ket..... but in the video they arrive in Ubon Ratchathani...

It is probable Si Sa Ket does not have a public airport. Thus, it is also probable their Mercedes was waiting at the Ubon airport to whisk them the rest of the way home . . .

[EyesWideOpen]

It reminds me of this monk in his 50M baht Rolls Royce.

From As the guns roar, feelings harden among border evacuees:

A famous local monk arrived in the afternoon in his new Bt50 million Rolls Royce to provide amulets and words of assurance to the mostly poor villagers.

That is simply too funny for words. A monk showing up in a Rolls to tell the poor villagers to keep their chins up.....

[Italian guy]

It happens exactly the same in the Catholic Church and others religious congregations. I would eradicate religion from humanity if I could!

[hellodolly]

Referring to the video, he said the public reaction should depend on whether the monks chose to travel by private jet or if it was organised by followers.

They normally have luxury cars to drive around in...but that source has dried up so they had to fly instead

I get driven around in a 30 year old beat up nissan pick up truck that sometimes we have to push to start. So please stop with the "all monks" crap.

Only the wealthy can afford antiques. LOL

[techboy]

I have two comments. Firstly if Monks are going to France then it's probably better flying than walking - if the sponsors want to pay, then so what? Secondly, I don't believe these guys are monks. The chap at the back had longer hair than me! A Monk with a mustache? Nah..... It's a spoof designed to do exactly what it is doing - throwing the Monks "under the bus" for some reason

Monks or not I am not inclined that this is the norm. Now finding yourself surrounded by a sea of saffron at a cheap electronics street market- well, yeah.

[Unkomoncents]

Wow. Thanks for that clarification regarding the details of one delusion as compared with another.

Uncomon cents - given the cheap shot you pulled here -

asking for clarification

getting it

and having nothing more intelligent to offer than some negative blanket platitude in response to it

- I want to say thank you in advance for any and all time you heretofore refrain from trolling Thai Visa.

Sorry Seminomadic. I was making a point and didn't need a lecture concerning the Dharma and other differences between Buddhism and Catholicism. This was not a troll post. The line "This is apples and hotdogs..." is indicative of the author's failure to see the bigger picture. I realized my mistake (that the question I was posing would immediately prompt the TV education spigot) and tried to edit my post but it was too late. Time to start taking notes on how the Pope is different from a monk from the resident Buddhism Phd's.

Oh what a sorry little man you are. You directly quoted my post (which you of course removed from your sorry post above) with a direct question - to which I directly answered - as Seminomadic said, poor form to ask for clarification then attack when your request is met - your question is hardly a 'point' either, it fails to do so even as a rhetorical question (in which it should have been marked if that was so). If you really can't debate or discuss, and really have problems when people actually can qualify earlier post, then simply don't ask.

In actual fact I thought the question both serious and had merit (within the context of the thread), which was why I answered it as I did (with respect to the context).

I truly doubt it takes a PhD to baffle you!

You're just upset that you bothered to write your post at all. I deleted the post because TV wouldn't let me use so many quotes. It has nothing to do with you buddy. Go back to lecturing people on Buddhism. You were better at that than you are at baiting me. There is NOTHING to debate. This was about another exploitative religion and its poorly behaved representatives. "Poor form"?! I'm sorry, but I don't need you to tell me how the Pope is different than a monk. There is no difference. This isn't a debate. I'm not debating anything with you. The Pope is a glorified monk. Period. This entire exchange has been the equivalent of you detailing the difference between the CEO of Enron and Bernard Madoff's sons. A most tedious explication. By the way, I had to delete parts of our conversation again, as I have too many bloc quotes. Anyone interested in this boring exchange can certainly read further back into the posts to figure out how we got here.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Unkomoncents

[donbak]

La