Bathroom Hot Water Heater Problem ... any clues?

[Jingthing]

OK, I've got an under sink hot water heater that supplies my bathroom sink, shower, and washer/dryer. (In a condo.)

Well it stopped working.

No hot water at all.

First on the sink and later on the shower.

A weird symptom on the sink faucet is that when turning the faucet to HOT the water pressure goes down dramatically.

My perception is that the pressure needed to be to a certain level to kick on the TURN ON HOT signal, but not sure.

If it helps as a clue, my condo has had some dirty water problems periodically, sometimes outrageous brown gunk comes out of the tap. That's fixed now.

I had a Thai handyman in and he didn't seem to have a clue.

Does anyone reading have a clue?

Damaged water heater?

Messed up pipes?

Any ideas for troubleshooting?

I could just buy a new water heater but that's no guarantee to fix anything if its related to pipes, water pressure.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Jingthing

[Tywais]

You are right, the water flow rate has to be above a certain amount to activate a flow switch that turns the heating element on. Many heaters have a filter somewhere in the line and if it got clogged up your flow rate will drop and thus the heater not be able to turn on. Need to find it and remove/clean it. At least that would be my first stop.

[Jingthing]

Thanks. That's a great clue.

Now I'm wondering if I should just replace the water heater anyway. I guess it's almost 10 years old now.

[Crossy]

May be time for a new heater anyway JT.

But before you do, the crunchy bits filter is usually on the end of the flexible tube on the inlet side, some units have a removable bit that looks like a small tap.

[David48]

I'm interested in JT's topic also.

Do they make 'low-flow' units designed to work on the 'village' water pressure?

Just contemplating installing one at the Farm.

To JT ... you've got 10 years service out the existing unit ... well done, I was under the expectation that there units didn't have a long life expectancy.

[cooked]

I discovered that the shower head here was improperly made, I banged a nail through where the holes should have been, no problems since. Just a thought.

[Tywais]

I'm interested in JT's topic also.

Do they make 'low-flow' units designed to work on the 'village' water pressure?

Just contemplating installing one at the Farm.

To JT ... you've got 10 years service out the existing unit ... well done, I was under the expectation that there units didn't have a long life expectancy.

Mine is 15 years old and still in fine shape.

You could consider a central hot water heater rather than on demand and a storage tank with pump for the weak pressure.

[Jingthing]

Well as I'm in a condo a separate large tank isn't in the cards.

On the filter question, I've found it extremely hard to find competent handyman help where I live, so IF I buy a new undersink water heater, does that mean that AUTOMATICALLY I'll get a new filter as well, or might my handyman just keep the old messed up filter installed with the new unit?

[Tywais]

Well as I'm in a condo a separate large tank isn't in the cards.

On the filter question, I've found it extremely hard to find competent handyman help where I live, so IF I buy a new undersink water heater, does that mean that AUTOMATICALLY I'll get a new filter as well, or might my handyman just keep the old messed up filter installed with the new unit?

Sorry JT, my answer regarding a large tank was to David's piggy back question.

As Crossy stated, the filter is normally in line with the inlet water tube to the heater. Best to be sure they replace the inlet tube at the same time to be reasonably sure they removed the old filter. Check out the manual that comes with the new unit and see if there is a diagram and point out to the handyman what to check.

[Morakot]

Do they make 'low-flow' units designed to work on the 'village' water pressure?

This one shuts off when the pressure goes below 0.3 bar (i.e. 3.06m water column). I think you need a storage heather if there is no pressure, but it might not be useful for a shower.

[Jingthing]

OK, this has been very helpful so far.

BTW, as I said the water heater also supplies my clothes washer.

I just ran it on hot and the clothes seemed to feel HOT right after they were finished, but I wouldn't bet much on that evidence.

I guess I'll test it again with cold water and see if I can feel the difference.

So to review, no hot water for the sink or shower, but MAYBE hot water for the clothes washer.

So if that's true that the hot works for the washer, then the unit itself is functioning.

Back to the clogged filter theory. Do you think this is the location of the filter?

(The large vertical tube between the two red shutoff things?)

Here's a wider angle of the situation:

I'm assuming this small thing is not the filter, right?

Is it recommended that I CLEAN the filter or replace it? Honestly I can't actually do this myself but I am trying to get where I can intelligently direct any work I try on this.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Morakot]

JT, what happens when you turn on the tap/ shower apart from not being hot? Low pressure?

First check the "incoming side" if there are any filters (possibly like the one in the picture); they would be at the connection points. Also check if the pipe is clogged up. The vertical part on the right is a splitter by the looks of it.

Did you say you have a washing machine/ tumble dryer? It's not the heat from from the dryer?

Edited June 19, 2013 by Morakot

[David48]

JT, what happens when you turn on the tap/ shower apart from not being hot? Low pressure?

First check the "incoming side" if there are any filters; they would be at the connection points. Also check if the pipe is clogged up. The vertical part on the right is a splitter by the looks of it.

Did you say you have a washing machine/ tumble dryer? It's not the heat from from the dryer?

We were posting at the same time.

What you are describing as a filter looks to me exactly what Morakot describes above ... a splitter.

So, from what I can see it's the incoming water supply (through the wall) which is 'split' into 2 directions.

One ducks off to the cold water inlet for your water heater and the other off to the right somewhere ... looking at the connector ... most likely to the washing machine.

The easy way to judge the temperature coming into the washing machine is to do a load and touch* the hot water pipe which leads into the Washing Machine ... obviously, if it's warm to hot ... the heater is working.

If you are not getting hot water in the shower ... then you may have a blocked or partly blocked water pipe.

All that said ... I'm a long lasped sparkie and my knowledge comes from being around the trades.

* Always touch with the pack of your hand on a metal pipe ... just in case there is a electricity leak somewhere ... swapped neutral or severed ground or the like.

.

[Jingthing]

So nothing in those pictures is an obvious filter?

That's not good.

So where would a filter be in this picture?

I have only a washing machine. No dryer.

I didn't feel any hot pipes during the washing. That's why I'm not sure about the evidence.

Maybe I wasn't feeling the right pipe. I'm not Mr. Mechanical.

The clothes felt hot for some seconds, and then not hot. Maybe just heat from spinning.

The shower water pressure seems OK when turned to hot.

I'll check it again when turned to hot. Maybe it's really not decent pressure on hot setting.

If it's a complex pipe problem, that's not good.

Have not been able to find anyone resembling a real plumber that ever shows up.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Morakot]

So nothing in those pictures is an obvious filter?

The filter can be "inside" the pipes or better in between the connections. Look at the picture above, I've added now. But they could also just be a flat ring-like mesh.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Morakot

[Jingthing]

So nothing in those pictures is an obvious filter?

The filter can be "inside" the pipes or better in between the connections. Look at the picture above, I've added now. But they could also just be a flat ring-like mesh.

OK, so I need someone who knows what they're doing to help me, it sounds like. I might be screwed.

The handyman I had in the other day seemed to be suggesting to just replace the water heater. Didn't even seem to consider filters or pipes. I don't mind spending money if it will fix it but that idea sounds quite questionable.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Morakot]

Don't despair. If you have two proper spanners you can check it yourself. Turn of the electricity and unscrew the pipes and check the situation. See if their is some build-up in their. Don't take off the ones that have tape on the thread, unless you have tape to put on again (tape only cost a few baht).

Edited June 19, 2013 by Morakot

[Jingthing]

Don't despair. If you have two proper spanners you can check it yourself. Turn of the electricity and unscrew the pipes and check the situation. See if their is some build-up in their. Don't take off the ones that have tape on the thread, unless you have tape to put on again (tape only cost a few baht).

Thanks. You don't know me. I can't do it. I'd make it worse. But I appreciate your confidence in me.

Maybe what I CAN do is try to convince the "handyman" that I've found to CHECK FOR CLOGS!

Edited June 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Morakot]

Well this could be your day! Here an example how to proceed with the precision tools

Edited June 19, 2013 by Morakot

[Jingthing]

I wonder if she does house calls from Dixie!

[Crossy]

Our heaters have the lumps filter built in to the pipe sealing washer:

Just pop off the inlet hose and have a look

[David48]

.

May I add an fundamental ... ?

TURN THE WATER OFF then ...

Don't despair. If you have two proper spanners you can check it yourself. Turn of the electricity and unscrew the pipes and check the situation. See if their is some build-up in their. Don't take off the ones that have tape on the thread, unless you have tape to put on again (tape only cost a few baht).

Edited June 19, 2013 by David48

[David48]

Our heaters have the lumps filter built in to the pipe sealing washer:

Image00050.jpg

Just pop off the inlet hose and have a look

Yep ... a simple design to keep the real chunky bits out.

The inlet to the washing machine may have something similar.

.

[Jingthing]

Our heaters have the lumps filter built in to the pipe sealing washer:

Image00050.jpg

Just pop off the inlet hose and have a look

Which is the inlet hose. There are two hoses, right and left.

Pop off? What does that mean? Screw off by hand? So if there is a filter there, clogged.

Then what?

You guys talk as if you're talking to someone who knows anything. Geez!

[Morakot]

.

May I add an fundamental ... ?

TURN THE WATER OFF then ...

Don't despair. If you have two proper spanners you can check it yourself. Turn of the electricity and unscrew the pipes and check the situation. See if their is some build-up in their. Don't take off the ones that have tape on the thread, unless you have tape to put on again (tape only cost a few baht).

.....

[Jingthing]

Look, my Dad was a mechanic and an engineer. When I tried to watch him fix stuff he chased me away. He had a sixth sense. I really need a plumber but I just don't want them to oversell on stuff before the fundamentals are checked.

I realize this is the do it yourself forum. For me do it yourself is having some basic understanding of what I'm asking a plumber to do, if I could actually find a plumber.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Morakot]

Our heaters have the lumps filter built in to the pipe sealing washer:

Image00050.jpg

Just pop off the inlet hose and have a look

Which is the inlet hose. There are two hoses, right and left.

Pop off? What does that mean? Screw off by hand? So if there is a filter there, clogged.

Then what?

You guys talk as if you're talking to someone who knows anything. Geez!

Use an adjustable spanner or something like this. Clean the filter with water or replace if broken. Put together. Sit back and open beverage of your choice

[Jingthing]

You've been very helpful here but I know my limits. I can replace my shower hose though!

[bunnydrops]

I live rural. Low pressure very often. I have a low pressure heater. It works most the time, but did get a pump for the "off" days. As for the problem here. It could well be a clogged pipe. After some work was done on the main out in front of the house, I started having some problems. Took the pipe apart and found both a 3/4 inch rock and a piece of cloth. Sorry, but none of these made it to the filter.

[Jingthing]

I live rural. Low pressure very often. I have a low pressure heater. It works most the time, but did get a pump for the "off" days. As for the problem here. It could well be a clogged pipe. After some work was done on the main out in front of the house, I started having some problems. Took the pipe apart and found both a 3/4 inch rock and a piece of cloth. Sorry, but none of these made it to the filter.

Now that's a good point. If there's a big clog outside my condo, being in a condo, that would be no picnic. But obviously the filter checks and internal pipe checks is a good first step.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Jingthing