How safe are wall mount water heaters without earthing ?

[RigPig]

I actually find this more distressing in this country most appliances come with these plugs :

Which are designed for these types of socket :

They are NOT designed for the outlets which are used everywhere in Thailand, the Earth or Ground cannot be connected !!!

You can cut them off and replace them with the American style plugs Which are common here in most hardware stores) but they are only rated at 120 volts so (theoretically) will only carry around 1/2 of the rated current.

Getting tingles off your appliances? Guess why.....

[paulfr]

Anyone know what an Earth Loop Impedance test is? This is the ONLY correct way to know that your grounding / Earthing system is adequate.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Impedance is the tech term for resistance that can change quickly with time due to 'capacitance' and 'inductance'

Forgive the fancy words ....

For 50-60Hz grounding issues, Impedance is just resistance .

The loop test finds the impedance from your home to the power source.

If the ground is dry it may/will be high and you effectively have no ground

to the power source. You still may be well grounded inside your home.

The loop is the kind of circuit needed to measure current ....... " all current flows in a loop/circle"

[Weatherman]

Well if none of a house's circuits are in fact grounded as you say 99% in Thialand, then what would be the point of using the third prong?

For myself I've made sure everything is properly done for all the locations where I have expensive electronics plugged in.

Worth my while living in a house for many years even though it's rented.

[masuk]

I moved house last week, having had the previous rented house re-wired and 3-pin outlets through the kitchen, with a good solid earth wire running to a rod buried deep in the ground.. (at my expense!)

Now I'm in the usual 19th century house, with not an earth in sight. Everything I bought last year has a 3-pin plug, and I feel decidedly uneasy using a 2-pin adapter.

The washing machine, the toaster, the microwave, the electric kettle all have 3-pin plugs. Mind you, many Thai manufacturers produce their equipment with a plug I last saw in Europe, with a recessed earth, and nothing in Thailand would be suitable for these.

Again, it's a case of adopting Western technology, but not quite going the whole way.

One would think that a house cannot be occupied until inspected by a qualified building inspector who passes it as safe.

[RigPig]

Well if none of a house's circuits are in fact grounded as you say 99% in Thialand, then what would be the point of using the third prong?

For myself I've made sure everything is properly done for all the locations where I have expensive electronics plugged in.

Worth my while living in a house for many years even though it's rented.

I actually think you should be asking "If the place has a ground (or you have paid or done yourself the ground system) then what's the point if the plugs on your appliances don't make the ground connection at the socket. All of the sockets I have seen with a ground do have the wire connected. The problem is they don't install a ground system at the switchboard. But that isn't all of it every situation s different

[RigPig]

Anyone know what an Earth Loop Impedance test is? This is the ONLY correct way to know that your grounding / Earthing system is adequate.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Impedance is the tech term for resistance that can change quickly with time due to 'capacitance' and 'inductance'

Forgive the fancy words ....

For 50-60Hz grounding issues, Impedance is just resistance .

The loop test finds the impedance from your home to the power source.

If the ground is dry it may/will be high and you effectively have no ground

to the power source. You still may be well grounded inside your home.

The loop is the kind of circuit needed to measure current ....... " all current flows in a loop/circle"

And the reading should be such that

" the impedance to ground of the grounding electrode does not exceed a values that will allow 5 times (or more) of the rating of the over current device, of current to flow to ground."

OR Example: A 20 Amp breaker supplying a lighting circuit :

100 Amps of fault current would be required to flow in order to ensure that the

breaker can open under a short circuit condition in an expectable time period

(5 x 20 Amp Breaker)

220 volts / 100 amps = 2.2 ohms (maximum)

Yes correct grounding isn't that simple, it is technical but is achievable, after all it's only there to save your life.

In saying that no one seems to have answered my previous question ......WHY DO WE NEED A GROUND?

[Gsxrnz]

Anyone know what an Earth Loop Impedance test is? This is the ONLY correct way to know that your grounding / Earthing system is adequate.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Impedance is the tech term for resistance that can change quickly with time due to 'capacitance' and 'inductance'

Forgive the fancy words ....

For 50-60Hz grounding issues, Impedance is just resistance .

The loop test finds the impedance from your home to the power source.

If the ground is dry it may/will be high and you effectively have no ground

to the power source. You still may be well grounded inside your home.

The loop is the kind of circuit needed to measure current ....... " all current flows in a loop/circle"

And the reading should be such that

" the impedance to ground of the grounding electrode does not exceed a values that will allow 5 times (or more) of the rating of the over current device, of current to flow to ground."

OR Example: A 20 Amp breaker supplying a lighting circuit :

100 Amps of fault current would be required to flow in order to ensure that the

breaker can open under a short circuit condition in an expectable time period

(5 x 20 Amp Breaker)

220 volts / 100 amps = 2.2 ohms (maximum)

Yes correct grounding isn't that simple, it is technical but is achievable, after all it's only there to save your life.

In saying that no one seems to have answered my previous question ......WHY DO WE NEED A GROUND?

Compliments of Wiki - but do you have a different theory?

"

In electrical engineering, ⏚ ground or earth can refer to the reference point in an electrical circuit from which other voltages are measured, or a common return path for electric current, or a direct physical connection to the Earth.

A typical earthing electrode (left), consisting of a conductive rod driven into the ground, at a home in Australia. Electrical codes specify that earthing wires must be a certain color, to prevent wiring errors.

Electrical circuits may be connected to ground (earth) for several reasons. In mains powered equipment, exposed metal parts are connected to ground to prevent user contact with dangerous voltage if electrical insulation fails. Connections to ground limit the build-up of static electricity when handling flammable products or electrostatic-sensitive devices.

In some telegraph and power transmission circuits, the earth itself can be used as one conductor of the circuit, saving the cost of installing a separate return conductor. (See single-wire earth return)

For measurement purposes, the Earth serves as a (reasonably) constant potential reference against which other potentials can be measured. An electrical ground system should have an appropriate current-carrying capability to serve as an adequate zero-voltage reference level. In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of current without changing its potential. Where a real ground connection has a significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer valid. Stray voltages or earth potential rise effects will occur, which may create noise in signals or if large enough will produce an electric shock hazard.

The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles may be spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return path for current from many different components in the circuit.

[RigPig]

Nope I think that's pretty spot on, the confusion arises when referring to "ground" or "Earth". I would like to highlight the line which says and quote:

"Where a real ground connection has a significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer valid."

The point I am trying to make is it isn't as simple as just driving a rod or burying metal into the ground!

And to be honest not too many electricians from our home country REALLY understand the concept, believe me I deal with it all the time. Fat chance of finding a Thai electrician that comprehends it, I am going through it now in the house I rent. However just driving rods into the ground isn't the answer and in some cases can actually cause a fatality.

The Earth / Ground actually comes from the star point of the generator / transformer, Thailand's electrical system is grounded, in fact despte what people may think looking at the mass of cables strung between poles (they are mostly telecom's) the supply side is actually pretty good!

The problem is (as far as I can see, and please correct me if am wrong I would love to get my hands on it) is that there is no regulation regarding what happens from the point of supply. Unfortunately this is where most people come in contact with it!!!

If anyone is REALLY interested, the question I have asked twice (and no one has been able to answer) WHY DO WE NEED A GROUND.

The answer is here : http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html

Best explanation I have seen almost in Layman’s terms. Many other interesting articles too (capacitors, magnetism) good reading for anyone interested.

[khunPer]

Unsafe and dangerous – need both earth and ELB. A proper earth is connected to three long earth spikes, my Thai electrican told me, when installing earth in the new house I was building. The earth connection is underground, so we don't see a wire coming out from the house. Of course he also installed ELB's.

WRONG, you don't need 3 rods just one deep one will work better, the 3 rod thing comes from a different form of grounding often used in places like Russia. Joining ground rods together to make one potential rod doesn't work unless the rods ar more than 2 metres apart anyway. It's the depth that counts.....

May well be you are correct, in Europe they use one long spike, I just told how they do it in Thailand. Three times I have the standard set of three two meter long Earth spikes made by Thai electricians, from two different companies.

[retell]

Nope I think that's pretty spot on, the confusion arises when referring to "ground" or "Earth". I would like to highlight the line which says and quote:

"Where a real ground connection has a significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer valid."

The point I am trying to make is it isn't as simple as just driving a rod or burying metal into the ground!

And to be honest not too many electricians from our home country REALLY understand the concept, believe me I deal with it all the time. Fat chance of finding a Thai electrician that comprehends it, I am going through it now in the house I rent. However just driving rods into the ground isn't the answer and in some cases can actually cause a fatality.

The Earth / Ground actually comes from the star point of the generator / transformer, Thailand's electrical system is grounded, in fact despte what people may think looking at the mass of cables strung between poles (they are mostly telecom's) the supply side is actually pretty good!

The problem is (as far as I can see, and please correct me if am wrong I would love to get my hands on it) is that there is no regulation regarding what happens from the point of supply. Unfortunately this is where most people come in contact with it!!!

If anyone is REALLY interested, the question I have asked twice (and no one has been able to answer) WHY DO WE NEED A GROUND.

The answer is here : http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html

Best explanation I have seen almost in Layman’s terms. Many other interesting articles too (capacitors, magnetism) good reading for anyone interested.

very good link and clear explanation , hell even i learned something new today Thanks Rigpig

[Mondeo]

I know that earthing ours with rods into the ground wasn't exactly financially challenging. Perhaps Bt1000 each ?

Video her, a western guy explaing how he mounted his heater. Talkative guy, but his point about grounding

comes at around 6 minutes into the video:

[RigPig]

I know that earthing ours with rods into the ground wasn't exactly financially challenging. Perhaps Bt1000 each ?

Video her, a western guy explaing how he mounted his heater. Talkative guy, but his point about grounding

comes at around 6 minutes into the video:

A classic case of a little knowledge can be dangerous, I wouldn't have believed t unless saw it, he has actually created a danger he isn't even aware of which could potentially kill someone!!! + He wouldn't go to the hardware store to buy wire nuts??? <deleted>. He is living (not sure how long) in the right place. + He never checked if he had the polarity right, the damn thing could still be "alive" even when it is turned off, UnFokin Believable !!!

[Sayonarax]

Ironically, most "earths" in Thai construction are there for decoration only. There might be an earth wire in your house/condo, but try and figure out if it actually goes to a decent ground of any kind. I've never yet seen an earth pole and strap outside a house or business.

Top prize goes to the muppet that installed my new water pump. Diligently earthed the green cable between the metal body of the pump and the plastic plinth it was mounted on. I explained the problem, even got the wife to explain with much use of the Thai language app on my phone to explain "earth, ground, plastic, metal, circuit, conductivity" etc. Totally over his head - always done it this way apparently.

lol better off doing it ya self or is manual labor beneath you?

[masuk]

Yup, a very interesting and informative article there.

Now, supposing a house in Thailand met international standards and was earthed, with 3-pin outlets?

How do you explain that to the supermarkets and electrical retailers of this country, who sell their products with at least 4 different types of plugs? There is the standard ghastly 2 flat-pin type, which almost everything electrical seems to have: This is rated as the most dangerous type of plug there is (see link below).

The majority of electrical appliances currently on sale in Thailand seem to have type "E" plugs fitted, (most of Europe) whereas those houses which are earthed have type "B" outlets. (but not quite as all three pins should be round).

When I was in China recently, it was interesting to note that all the hotels seem to use the type "I" plug and outlet (same as Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands) and also many electrical items.

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity.htm#plugs

anyone know a reliable and economical electrician in Chiang Mai?

[RigPig]

Yup, a very interesting and informative article there.

Now, supposing a house in Thailand met international standards and was earthed, with 3-pin outlets?

How do you explain that to the supermarkets and electrical retailers of this country, who sell their products with at least 4 different types of plugs? There is the standard ghastly 2 flat-pin type, which almost everything electrical seems to have: This is rated as the most dangerous type of plug there is (see link below).

The majority of electrical appliances currently on sale in Thailand seem to have type "E" plugs fitted, (most of Europe) whereas those houses which are earthed have type "B" outlets. (but not quite as all three pins should be round).

When I was in China recently, it was interesting to note that all the hotels seem to use the type "I" plug and outlet (same as Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands) and also many electrical items.

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity.htm#plugs

anyone know a reliable and economical electrician in Chiang Mai?

I guess I am biased but realistically Australian / New Zealand / Chinese outlets and plugs are fool proof if used correctly. You can buy Clipsal gear here if you look hard enough. My previous post (with pictures) confirms EXACTLY what you are saying, but the only practical alternative I have found are American plugs to replace the European ones, and they are only rated at 120 volts, so you have to be careful as they will only carry about 1/2 the current they are rated for (rule of thumb). No standards here.......

Polarty is also an issue as most appliances only have single pole switches so even though it won't work when switched off t s (could be) still "alive" inside if you put the plug in the wrong way around. And how do you know which is the right way round? 50 / 50 chance.....

[Gsxrnz]

Ironically, most "earths" in Thai construction are there for decoration only. There might be an earth wire in your house/condo, but try and figure out if it actually goes to a decent ground of any kind. I've never yet seen an earth pole and strap outside a house or business.

Top prize goes to the muppet that installed my new water pump. Diligently earthed the green cable between the metal body of the pump and the plastic plinth it was mounted on. I explained the problem, even got the wife to explain with much use of the Thai language app on my phone to explain "earth, ground, plastic, metal, circuit, conductivity" etc. Totally over his head - always done it this way apparently.

lol better off doing it ya self or is manual labor beneath you?

I'm unsure why you chose to draw the conclusion that manual labour might be beneath me. I'm even more unsure why you took the time to post such a conclusion in the form of a semi-rhetorical question that implied that manual labour might indeed be beneath me.

If you were curious about my technical skills and/or my willingness to undertake manual labour, perhaps you would have been better to simply ask the direct question "why didn't you install the pump yourself?".

And my direct response would have been "because the property was rented and the property owner arranged for the installation of the pump, as is their duty under the terms of the lease. I did in fact offer to install the pump myself but the property owner was concerned about possible warranty claims."

I trust your curiosity is now satisfied.

[Mudcrab]

They have the potential to electrocute you if they are not earthed

and an internal fault occurs.

Not only that but they also need to be protected with an ELB

(earth leakage breaker) that is fitted in the supply line through the

Live and Neutral.

Only earthing is NOT 100% safe.

Absolute <deleted>, if there is correct earthing and the heater element becomes live then the current will flow to ground through the earth which should then trip the circuit breaker. By correct I mean at least a 10mm earth cable and all metal pipework bonded to ground as well (not sure of exact UK requirements now as I don't live there and I'm industrial not domestic). In the UK it is not a requirement to have an rcd fitted, only required for new installations. Also an rcd device doesn't need an earth connection, it just looks at the current imbalance between live and neutral - i.e. current in is the same as current out.The problem I have seen here is that they don't connect the earth at the at the consumer unit to the house wiring and also at one friends house I saw the bonding for his metal roof struts earthed with a 1mm wire which would vapourise if there was a lightning strike. The one thing that makes me nervous with electric water heaters is that the mains supply to the house comes via overhead lines and liable to lightning strikes although at the moment I live in a condo so I'm protected by the 3 phase incomer transformers and switchgear protection.

Only valid provided the neutral is referenced to earth at some point, and from what I have seen this is usually NOT the case in Thailand. If the only earth is simply a piece of wire stuck into the ground then a fault to earth will not cause the protective device to trip....but will raise the exposed metal of the appliance to supply voltage.

By the way ELCB's have been out of favour for some years now.

As stated the better device to use is an RCD or Residual Current Device which looks at the difference in current between the active and the neutral conductors, which should be equal under normal conditions. It does not rely on measuring fault current in the earthing conductor. Any difference indicates a current flowing somewhere it shouldn't - and the device interrupts the supply by tripping off.

Not sure if worrying about a lighting strike is a real concern. Power is supplied by overhead lines the world over and doesn't seem to be a major problem. If anything landline telephones become a hazard in a thunderstorm. Invest in some good voltage protective devices for TV's and PC's etc.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Mudcrab

[justben]

I'm seeking some advice please.

Could an ungrounded 2 bank 10 amp car battery charger pose a risk of any kind (fire for example)?

Could it cause the charger to generate more heat than usual?

Thanks

[Mudcrab]

rcd, elcb, elb are the same thing

garbage

[Crossy]

rcd, elcb, elb are the same thing

garbage

In my experience the terms are used interchangeably these days as all modern domestic and small power earth leakage detectors work in the same way, i.e. by measuring the difference between the live and neutral currents.

Most devices are two-wire (L & N) but some (more expensive usually) have a functional earth connection which helps it detect N-E faults which may or may not trip the two wire type.

[Crossy]

I'm seeking some advice please.

Could an ungrounded 2 bank 10 amp car battery charger pose a risk of any kind (fire for example)?

Could it cause the charger to generate more heat than usual?

Thanks

Running your charger without a ground will not make it run hotter than usual.

If it requires a ground and does not have one then there is a risk of electric shock, either due to a fault, or via any internal mains filters the unit may have.

[Mudcrab]

Yup, a very interesting and informative article there.

Now, supposing a house in Thailand met international standards and was earthed, with 3-pin outlets?

How do you explain that to the supermarkets and electrical retailers of this country, who sell their products with at least 4 different types of plugs? There is the standard ghastly 2 flat-pin type, which almost everything electrical seems to have: This is rated as the most dangerous type of plug there is (see link below).

The majority of electrical appliances currently on sale in Thailand seem to have type "E" plugs fitted, (most of Europe) whereas those houses which are earthed have type "B" outlets. (but not quite as all three pins should be round).

When I was in China recently, it was interesting to note that all the hotels seem to use the type "I" plug and outlet (same as Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands) and also many electrical items.

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity.htm#plugs

anyone know a reliable and economical electrician in Chiang Mai?

I guess I am biased but realistically Australian / New Zealand / Chinese outlets and plugs are fool proof if used correctly. You can buy Clipsal gear here if you look hard enough. My previous post (with pictures) confirms EXACTLY what you are saying, but the only practical alternative I have found are American plugs to replace the European ones, and they are only rated at 120 volts, so you have to be careful as they will only carry about 1/2 the current they are rated for (rule of thumb). No standards here.......

Polarty is also an issue as most appliances only have single pole switches so even though it won't work when switched off t s (could be) still "alive" inside if you put the plug in the wrong way around. And how do you know which is the right way round? 50 / 50 chance.....

I was waiting for someone to raise the issue of earthing/grounding and equipotential bonding. unfortunately we have quite a few backyard electricians here which is a worry, particularly some of the advice given.

I like the MEN system(being an Aussie) and it is pretty safe and easy to understand.

I must admit I do get a chuckle when I read people saying how good their earth is when all they are doing is checking the resistance of the earth conductors from an outlet to the earth stake. Not surprisingly they read 0 ohms, or close to it.

I have carried out earthing checks many times (usually in transformer yards) - using the correct gear, which includes a number of separate stakes at 5m and 10m from the "earth" point. This isn't something the average homeowner/occupier would do or even know about.

The latest Standards also call for earthing connection to any reinforcing steel used in concrete slab construction.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Mudcrab]

rcd, elcb, elb are the same thing

garbage

In my experience the terms are used interchangeably these days as all modern domestic and small power earth leakage detectors work in the same way, i.e. by measuring the difference between the live and neutral currents.

That's been done in numerous posts already.

[Crossy]

rcd, elcb, elb are the same thing

garbage

In my experience the terms are used interchangeably these days as all modern domestic and small power earth leakage detectors work in the same way, i.e. by measuring the difference between the live and neutral currents.

That's been done in numerous posts already.

So why your 'garbage' comment?

We have several different names for the same basic device.

EDIT I note that you are (correctly) differentiating between an RCD and an ELCB as being different devices.

Whilst those in the know understand, the vast majority of our readers would be using the terms interchangeably ('real' domestic ELCBs have been outlawed in the West for some years as unreliable).

Let's stick to the premise (flawed though it be) that:

RCD

RCCB

ELCB

ELB

GFCI

GFI

ALCI

RCBO*

Are the same device for the purposes of this discussion.

* With the exception than an RCBO also has over-current protection as well as earth leakage protection.

[sotsira]

.....circuit breaker (safe-T-cut) is essential. When I moved in I was puzzled by the nails attached to the circuit and stuck into the ground. I since found out that this was the earthing...If I had the expertise I would buy some European plugs and sockets, meaning that I couldn't plug many of my Thai power tools.

The circuit breakers inside your consumer unit are NOT life saving devices, they are high rated amperage circuit breakers that only the LIVE wires run through them, not the NEUTRAL and they

don't detect earth leakage.

They are designed to protect the wires from melting or catching fire in the event of a short circuit

they will NOT prevent electrocution as they can withstand the amperage stated on them before

self switching off, which by then, could well be too late.

I had my house redone all new wires and grounds put on every thing even the heaters in the showers and I made sure it all goes to a grounding rod out side.

Now you got me thinking should I or can it be done to change all my breakers to GFI or something of that kind for added protection ?

I am asking because I need moire advice , I want to feel safe in the shower and with my family . Seems like you know what you are talking about.

Thanks in advance

Sorry for the delayed reply, i only just recently saw your post, but better late than never i suppose.

Yes, for added protection you can fit a device called an RCBO made by "Safe T Cut"

This device has a sensitivity control switch incorporated to supply the standard breakers in

you consumer unit.

The safety feature of the RCBO is that it will trip the supply at a max of 30 milliamps as opposed

to the each individual circuit breakers that you currently have(which only trip at the rated amperage

stated on them) as soon as a fault is detected by the RCBO.

You have a choice in whether to add a separate RCBO UNIT to your existing consumer board

supply.

OR

Replace your consumer board with an RCBO incorporated consumer unit.

Both are available from Safe T Cut.

You will usually find them for sale at most electrical retailers.

If you google Safe T Cut you can see the images of these units, i tried to paste them on this post

but they wouldn't allow them.

[sotsira]

http://www.be2hand.com/525497-safe-t-cut-ตัดก่อนตาย-เตือนก่อนวายวอด-ศูนย์บริการผู้แทนจำหน่ายในเขตกรุ.html#

Here is a link for you to have a look

Edited June 25, 2013 by sotsira

[cooked]

.....circuit breaker (safe-T-cut) is essential. When I moved in I was puzzled by the nails attached to the circuit and stuck into the ground. I since found out that this was the earthing...If I had the expertise I would buy some European plugs and sockets, meaning that I couldn't plug many of my Thai power tools.

The circuit breakers inside your consumer unit are NOT life saving devices, they are high rated amperage circuit breakers that only the LIVE wires run through them, not the NEUTRAL and they

don't detect earth leakage.

They are designed to protect the wires from melting or catching fire in the event of a short circuit

they will NOT prevent electrocution as they can withstand the amperage stated on them before

self switching off, which by then, could well be too late.

I had my house redone all new wires and grounds put on every thing even the heaters in the showers and I made sure it all goes to a grounding rod out side.

Now you got me thinking should I or can it be done to change all my breakers to GFI or something of that kind for added protection ?

I am asking because I need moire advice , I want to feel safe in the shower and with my family . Seems like you know what you are talking about.

Thanks in advance

Sorry for the delayed reply, i only just recently saw your post, but better late than never i suppose.

Yes, for added protection you can fit a device called an RCBO made by "Safe T Cut"

This device has a sensitivity control switch incorporated to supply the standard breakers in

you consumer unit.

The safety feature of the RCBO is that it will trip the supply at a max of 30 milliamps as opposed

to the each individual circuit breakers that you currently have(which only trip at the rated amperage

stated on them) as soon as a fault is detected by the RCBO.

You have a choice in whether to add a separate RCBO UNIT to your existing consumer board

supply.

OR

Replace your consumer board with an RCBO incorporated consumer unit.

Both are available from Safe T Cut.

You will usually find them for sale at most electrical retailers.

If you google Safe T Cut you can see the images of these units, i tried to paste them on this post

but they wouldn't allow them.

My circuit breaker is set at 5 mA and hasn't tripped yet. (apart from when I tested it).

Edited June 25, 2013 by cooked

[vijer]

OK people, enough!!

RCDs and RCDBs do NOT need a ground to function, the old (very old) voltage operated ELCBs did, but I've never seen one in Thailand and they are illegal in most Western countries too, not made any longer.

The term 'ELCB' when used today is normally referring to an RCD.

And for those who want to know how an RCD works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

They missed the part in your previous post where you alluded to the fact that you are a commercial electrician, so they probably won't read about GFI's (Yank terminology).

[vijer]

I know that earthing ours with rods into the ground wasn't exactly financially challenging. Perhaps Bt1000 each ?

Video her, a western guy explaing how he mounted his heater. Talkative guy, but his point about grounding

comes at around 6 minutes into the video:

That's classic. He's happy to point out his mistakes.

[retell]

I know that earthing ours with rods into the ground wasn't exactly financially challenging. Perhaps Bt1000 each ?

Video her, a western guy explaing how he mounted his heater. Talkative guy, but his point about grounding

comes at around 6 minutes into the video:

That's classic. He's happy to point out his mistakes.

there is nothing wrong in admitting you were wrong or made a bad choice , the ones that can do that . RESPECT