Government wants to buy wife's land (eminent domain)

[bbko]

Anyone have any expericence with this? My Thai wife has a 100 talang wah plot of land in the Lake Mabprachan, Pattaya area and the government want to buy her land in order to make a road that reaches Motorway 7. The Thai locals in the area are saying we could get big money if we play our cards right. I understand the basics of negotiating, but seeing as neither of us have "played this card game" before, I'm wondering if anyone here has had this happen to them or can give any tips or pointers. Thanks.

[jbrain]

I doubt with a government negotiate comes even in play. If it is for a road, they normally simply dispossess and pay a fixed price.

[bbko]

Thanks for the input Jb, since I posted I found this on the web reguarding emient domain in Thailand, it's off a farang lawyer's site;

"When private property is taken under the right of “Eminent Domain”, a fair price is paid to the owner by governing authorities. If the owner refuses to accept the price offered, condemnation proceeding are bought by the government and commissioners are appointed to appraise the property. The appraised value is paid to the owner."

then there's a few paragraphs saying there are ways to appeal, etc, etc. then gives mention to Section 42 of the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand;

The amount of compensation under paragraph one shall be fairly assessed with due regard to the normal market price, mode of acquisition, condition and location of the immovable property, loss of the person whose property or right thereto is expropriated, and benefits that the State and the person whose property or right thereto is expropriated may receive from the use of the expropriated property.

I guess I need to bone up on my lawerese if I want a decent payout...555

[HAL9000]

That lawyerese says that if you appeal they will consider what you have to lose, what you could gain, and what the government has to gain. I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you aren't doing anything with the property and don't have concrete plans in place to do something with it that will make you big money, and that can't be done somewhere else.

[keeniau96]

Your key chip is the dragging out of the process by appeal, obstinacy and strong will. Strongest position is if you have a plan for the land in question eg. building home for mother-in-law, corral for the water buffalo, fish farm, whatever. Here on Phuket two very (in)famous examples of holdouts were for road widening, with those two small plots projecting out as raw land into the otherwise four-lane road. It was like that for more than three years. Up to you, take the offer or play the game, but have a good reason for the playing.

[Pib]

The govt will just come up with what it considers a fair price based on any recent sales and offer that. By fighting it in the court you might get a little more but when it comes to the govt's eminent domain right I seriously doubt anyone is going to make a killing (BIG profit). Now if a private company needed your land to build an office building, condo, an entrance/exit way to its new mall, etc., then a person just might make a killing.

[swissie]

All important: What papers has your wife on the land? I hope "Chanote".

Other than that: Let your wife (and the neighbors) handle this. As a Farang, you better keep a low profile.

Cheers.

[utalkin2me]

People have been telling you that you can make big money? If I was in your shoes i'd be getting ready to get bent over, because that is what is going to happen. If fair market value is X, you are going to end up getting X-something, I would bet on that. Would have been better off selling befoehand, but nobody can know when these things are coming.

[bbko]

Your key chip is the dragging out of the process by appeal, obstinacy and strong will. Strongest position is if you have a plan for the land in question eg. building home for mother-in-law, corral for the water buffalo, fish farm, whatever. Here on Phuket two very (in)famous examples of holdouts were for road widening, with those two small plots projecting out as raw land into the otherwise four-lane road. It was like that for more than three years. Up to you, take the offer or play the game, but have a good reason for the playing.

Thanks to all for the input, I really like the idea of building a home for the mother-in-law, when we 1st bought the land we had an architect draw up plans with the intent of the wife and I living there, but ended up buying a home inside a village, so the land just sat (chanote in hand). We still have the plans and now we can say our intent was to build a home for the in-laws when they retire so they can be close to us.

I knew there were smart ideas from the forum members, thanks again!

[belg]

depends if that official is knowing about the project, give you a small price, remind you that they can take it away anyway and then sell it to the real official with a hefty profit

go seek if there is any official documentation about the construction of this road and take a lawyer

[monkeycountry]

Your key chip is the dragging out of the process by appeal, obstinacy and strong will. Strongest position is if you have a plan for the land in question eg. building home for mother-in-law, corral for the water buffalo, fish farm, whatever. Here on Phuket two very (in)famous examples of holdouts were for road widening, with those two small plots projecting out as raw land into the otherwise four-lane road. It was like that for more than three years. Up to you, take the offer or play the game, but have a good reason for the playing.

Thanks to all for the input, I really like the idea of building a home for the mother-in-law, when we 1st bought the land we had an architect draw up plans with the intent of the wife and I living there, but ended up buying a home inside a village, so the land just sat (chanote in hand). We still have the plans and now we can say our intent was to build a home for the in-laws when they retire so they can be close to us.

I knew there were smart ideas from the forum members, thanks again!

I highly doubt you will be reimbursed for "intent", unless you can prove that not building the intended house will cause you a loss - which I assume you cannot? If you are really lucky, and I really doubt that too, you will be reimbursed the architect fee for the plans. However, if the plans are several years old, it may be argued that there is no longer intent to build, and that you have already realised the architect fee as a loss, hence no need to reimburse you for that either. Good luck though!

[jcb2001]

I agree with last post to get a lawyer. You and your wife could stand to loose big time. Dealing with the Thai gov't could get pretty nasty if you don't know your way around the rope and what's going to happen next. Leave it up to a good attorney to handle it.

[PattayaPhom]

Compulsary purchase at market value. If there are numerous owners involved get together but market value is really what you can expect.

[NanLaew]

Since it is only 100 talang wah and presently has nothing on it, I think the government offer will be fair and not worth the legal costs of 'fighting' IMHO.

[bitcoinbob]

they will pay a fair price -read under market value by eminet domain

http://thaisolicitor.com/?p=97

[personchester]

depends if that official is knowing about the project, give you a small price, remind you that they can take it away anyway and then sell it to the real official with a hefty profit

go seek if there is any official documentation about the construction of this road and take a lawyer

If there is an official government instruction to "construct" a road, then little can be done for avoidance.

As farang you can not take part in such negotiation due to the fact of not being the owner of the land.

The government will negotiate only with the official owner of the land (your wife) but should your wife engage a solicitor in order to advice her on this matter the governmental traffic section will accept dealing also with the solicitor.

The solicitor will advice you that there is not much one can do in order to avoid the sale, or demand more money, because one has to accept the governmental financial offer.

Road constructions with today's massively increased traffic is vital for the country, thus the government has the legal right to force people to sell the requested land and houses at the given price.

[lucjoker]

Land office told me 1 week ago that the "estimated price" arround Maprachan is 5000 bht/Tw

5000 x 100 = 500 ooo bht ,on this eatimated price the buyer has to pay tax ,about 6.3%(30 000 bht)

Took us 4 hours in land office to find out.

[tragickingdom]

If you play your cards right the money is good, but if you overplay your hand you get screwed. Property is more sacred in Thailand than in any Western country, also the financial compensation rules for expropriation are far more generous than in the West. Don;t show your white face though.

[NanLaew]

Oh yes, and once you have settled and accepted the fair market value payment and the cash is in the bank, fully expect the same locals "saying we could get big money if we play our cards right" to laugh and ridicule you for accepting so little as they will say that Uncle Somchai got 5 million for his half-acre.

[CWMcMurray]

The big money will not b made on selling the land for the road itself, but will be made on all of the land that will now be next to a major road

Rated than arguing about price of entire piece of land... Would try to arrange it so you do not need to sell the entire amount but just enough for the road to pass through... While keeping as much property to border that new road

That is where you can make some real money....

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[HUAHIN62]

I would get an estate agent to value the land as a start. Wait for the government offer and if the money they offer is much lower than the market value I would consider taking it further. As its a small piece of land a legal fight (even if you win) will not be worth it.

[Globeman]

People have been telling you that you can make big money? If I was in your shoes i'd be getting ready to get bent over, because that is what is going to happen. If fair market value is X, you are going to end up getting X-something, I would bet on that. Would have been better off selling befoehand, but nobody can know when these things are coming.

In Bang Sue, when they co-opted land for the elevated section of the MRT, (the neighbourhood looks like a set from the Jetsons now)... some residents tried this one, reckoning they could make a few bob, but in the end most of them got screwed - less than the real market value. the government assessor's valuations tended, not surprisingly, to favour the government...

[bangkokstick]

The best would be to quickly sell the land to a stupid farang who has a nice business plan...

[realenglish1]

My Suggestion is go to a lawyer who has a lot of real estate experience and let him guide you

Since you say you are novice you have to get some proper help

As far as the Thais are concerned they are dreamers and schemers. The ones that are saying to you that you can cash in big time Ask them a simple quiestion. Who do they know that you can referred to that have cashed in big time

All of them will not know anyone. So as I said get a lawyer

[vijer]

People have been telling you that you can make big money? If I was in your shoes i'd be getting ready to get bent over, because that is what is going to happen. If fair market value is X, you are going to end up getting X-something, I would bet on that. Would have been better off selling befoehand, but nobody can know when these things are coming.

In Bang Sue, when they co-opted land for the elevated section of the MRT, (the neighbourhood looks like a set from the Jetsons now)... some residents tried this one, reckoning they could make a few bob, but in the end most of them got screwed - less than the real market value. the government assessor's valuations tended, not surprisingly, to favour the government...

Ya there was probably some collusion and an unnamed third party took ownership of the land before the government and then the government paid the unnamed third party more than what was paid to the original owners.

[NanLaew]

The big money will not b made on selling the land for the road itself, but will be made on all of the land that will now be next to a major road Rated than arguing about price of entire piece of land... Would try to arrange it so you do not need to sell the entire amount but just enough for the road to pass through... While keeping as much property to border that new roadThat is where you can make some real money....Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

But the OP is talking about a paltry 100 talang wah versus a motorway. Even if the land fell on the edge of the motorway and his wife could retain (say) 50% of it, who would want to live that close to the motorway? If it was a couple of rai getting cut up, maybe getting into the motorway services business would be an option?

To make money, one has to spend money. The OP's wife may want to look at adjoining parcels of land, buy those up (hoping the land owners haven't already got motorway madness and quoting silly prices). Then she may have something worth 'fighting' about?

[CWMcMurray]

I didn't realize how small a talang wah was....

After reading your post, I looked it up and it seems that it is only 400 sqm....

So agree... Not a whole lot that can be done with such a small plot

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[bbko]

I didn't realize how small a talang wah was....

After reading your post, I looked it up and it seems that it is only 400 sqm....

So agree... Not a whole lot that can be done with such a small plot

Thanks again to all for the input, it is only a small plot of land and I'm not expecting get rich off this but I am looking to maximize my return, we (I) originally paid 300,000 about 7 years ago and today can easily get 800,000, if I can get 1million+, I'm happy. To those that say as a farang I have to sit back and let the wife do the talking, I understand where you are coming from but you can bet I will be the one advising her what to say. The proposed plan affects severl land/home owners and there is talk of hiring one lawyer to represent all, I will take it into consideration or may just go on our own. This is going to be a long process and I will update when new developments come about just in case this happens to other forum members in the future.

Joe

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I didn't realize how small a talang wah was....

After reading your post, I looked it up and it seems that it is only 400 sqm....

So agree... Not a whole lot that can be done with such a small plot

Thanks again to all for the input, it is only a small plot of land and I'm not expecting get rich off this but I am looking to maximize my return, we (I) originally paid 300,000 about 7 years ago and today can easily get 800,000, if I can get 1million+, I'm happy. To those that say as a farang I have to sit back and let the wife do the talking, I understand where you are coming from but you can bet I will be the one advising her what to say. The proposed plan affects severl land/home owners and there is talk of hiring one lawyer to represent all, I will take it into consideration or may just go on our own. This is going to be a long process and I will update when new developments come about just in case this happens to other forum members in the future.

Joe

Mistake to use one lawyer.

The more lawyers you use, the more you can drag your separate heels.

One lawyer, the government just bribe, and he folds.

Government scheduling appointments with one lawyer = easy and quick.

Government scheduling appointments with many lawyers = very hard and slow.

In the US where I worked, government would always try to take land from 1 big land owner, in preference to 100 small land owners. They had to show due process, notify owner, make case they needed the land, make case land was little value to current owner, etc. One owner or one lawyer was their dream ticket. No need to chase 100s around, just 1 person.

Edited June 27, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[bbko]

I didn't realize how small a talang wah was....

After reading your post, I looked it up and it seems that it is only 400 sqm....

So agree... Not a whole lot that can be done with such a small plot

Thanks again to all for the input, it is only a small plot of land and I'm not expecting get rich off this but I am looking to maximize my return, we (I) originally paid 300,000 about 7 years ago and today can easily get 800,000, if I can get 1million+, I'm happy. To those that say as a farang I have to sit back and let the wife do the talking, I understand where you are coming from but you can bet I will be the one advising her what to say. The proposed plan affects severl land/home owners and there is talk of hiring one lawyer to represent all, I will take it into consideration or may just go on our own. This is going to be a long process and I will update when new developments come about just in case this happens to other forum members in the future.

Joe

Mistake to use one lawyer.

The more lawyers you use, the more you can drag your separate heels.

One lawyer, the government just bribe, and he folds.

Government scheduling appointments with one lawyer = easy and quick.

Government scheduling appointments with many lawyers = very hard and slow.

In the US where I worked, government would always try to take land from 1 big land owner, in preference to 100 small land owners. They had to show due process, notify owner, make case they needed the land, make case land was little value to current owner, etc. One owner or one lawyer was their dream ticket. No need to chase 100s around, just 1 person.

Excellent point, I will be sure to pass that info to the other land/home owners.