Slavery on Thai fishing boats is straight from the 18th century

[Considered Opinion]

And ofcourse all the upset and selfrightious posters here will stop buying and eating seafood??

Or not?

For the record, I haven't eaten Thai seafood in 13 years. So, yes, we can stop eating Thai seafood.

[chooka]

If America is so concerned about this issue then why do we keep doing business with them?

America = words words words... Don't take them too seriously please.

Are they the same as Thailand with their words? .

[nattydread]

seems it happens in the fruit processing factories too

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/06/201262310492706615.html

[chooka]

And ofcourse all the upset and selfrightious posters here will stop buying and eating seafood??

Or not?

For the record, I haven't eaten Thai seafood in 13 years. So, yes, we can stop eating Thai seafood.

I'm with you, never eaten it. I guess the poster just "assumes" that everyone has the same diet as him/her.

[waxon]

Imposition of Puritan morality

The other thing that bothers me is that you see this statement repeatedly in the report (across countries), this year and in past years: "The government did not make an effort to reduce the demand for

commercial sex acts during the year."

First of all, it's not clear to me how a government can reduce demand for commercial sex (rather than supply). Second, what gives the Americans the right to condemn 'commercial sex' between two free and consenting persons?? Absolutely ridiculous...

The way to reduce demand is to impose severe penalties on the purchaser. In the US some local jurisdictions publish names and sometimes even pictures. If you are living in an area that takes those steps, you may decide to not use commercial sex.

But, I completely agree that sex, free or paid, between two consenting adults should not be controlled by any government agency.

Everyone, including Americans, have the right to their opinion. And, it is not only Americans who condem commercial sex. Why are you so irritated that other people have different morals than you? Aren't you, in fact, imposing your own moral outlook by condeming Americans?

[OldSalty]

It is just another way to protect the American seafood industry, nobody in the US is realy interested in what is going on on foreign vessels of any nation, and there is much more slavery going on in the shipping industry.

[Thai at Heart]

seems it happens in the fruit processing factories too

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/06/201262310492706615.html

So tier 3 beckons.

Love the statement that they avoided a downgrade due to the government having a written strategy to stop people trafficking.

That will help....

[atyclb]

interesting theres no focus on this by NGOs or CNN, only the so called 'sex slaves' need saving.... who are actually voluntary prostitutes 90% of the time, no matter their age. and even if they are not, at least they dont get shot in the sea. this needs more attention and exposure, and so does the hypocrisy of shameless NGOs.

Some have theorized media outlets with offices / staff in Thailand avoid doing such stories as they fear being kicked out of the country which would also entail losing the in country perks.

[stickylies]

Are they the same as Thailand with their words?

thailand rarely tells other countries how to behave. USA says: slavery is bad, and employs 100.000 of mexican "slaves". USA says: war is bad, and some of the most vicious wars in last 40 years were started by USA. USA says: atomic bombs are bad, and USA were the only nation to have ever used them as weapon. USA says: torture is bad, and ... sure u get my point right ?

[lovetotravel]

u,s should take its head out of its ass,and actually do something just hot air again,,maybe buying those helicopters may help keep them quiet,,,if obama,could take the lead on this i would be most impressed,,ban the imports it would change instantly,,,,maybe im pi-ssing in the wind

The US takes this very seriously. Read this and the consequences it's had. It's a tough problem to solve:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-17/local/35462377_1_illegal-immigrants-poultry-workers-alabama-law

Also, didn't the US have a civil war to stop slavery? If this is discovered by the authorities in the US, something is done about it. Here, you just have to pay off the police or local politician. Big difference.

I hope a ban happens. It's probably the only way something will be done about this. It's absolutely disgusting how these poor people are treated.

[lovetotravel]

It is just another way to protect the American seafood industry, nobody in the US is realy interested in what is going on on foreign vessels of any nation, and there is much more slavery going on in the shipping industry.

That's a horrible thing to say. People worldwide are concerned about this. Even citizens from your country, right?

[stickylies]

cheap (illegal) labor is major part of US economy. no US-bashing here, just facts. slavery going on in thailand is bad but paternalism by the US isn't going to help. the whole capitalistic system is to blame. nothing more nothing less. and we all like our goods/shrimp cheap.

[fasteddie]

Arrrrgh, rum , sodomy, and the lash. Where can I sign up?

Walking St Pattaya?

[cup-O-coffee]

Anyone surprised about this "Buddhist" nation?

whats your point of bringing religion to it? need no to beat around the bush

He's right, PaullyW. That being said; Anyone surprised about this "Gargoyle-wearing, Gucci-Bag-toting, Jet-setting Buddhists" nation? "Was in Tuk Com the other day and saw three more of them pawing over iPads. But I digress...

Regarding the OP; I truly find this story very difficult to believe. It seems that fish stories really do originate with sailors on the open sea. All that horrible telling, and not even one regaling of mutiny. Hmmm.

What surprise me is the number of Thai Visa posters so willing to drag religion or Buddhism into every thing that is negative and not a word of it on positive points in Thailand.

And they think the Thai system of education is bad. I wonder what kind of education they got.

Wake up people religions and Buddhism do not do wrong it is the members in them that do wrong. the same goes for atheist's. What does an atheist blame his wrong doing on. "lack of religion"?

A very poor defense of a very off topic issue.

[stickylies]

That's a horrible thing to say. People worldwide are concerned about this. Even citizens from your country, right?

concerned? perhaps. but actually doing something against it? i don't think so. check the labels in your clothes... all made by poor (children) in sweatshop. unless u can afford expensive designer clothes that is. however, even those get now manufactured in (be-)low-wage countries (ie. exploitation).

[madmitch]

One in six pounds of seafood in America is imported from Thailand.

Possibly, but isn't the majority of this famed freshwater shrimp?

[tigergrl]

Anyone surprised about this "Buddhist" nation?

whats your point of bringing religion to it? need no to beat around the bush

Maybe PaullyW was referring to this:

Succinctly put, Buddhism enunciates the end of suffering (Dukkha) through the elimination of ignorance (avidya) and the elimination of craving (tanha), and thus the attainment of the cessation of all suffering, known as the sublime state of nirvana.

Silaor Ethical conduct, is part of the umbrella/concept Four Noble Truths.

Obviously, Ethical Conduct, pertains wholly to the subject of slavery, not to mention corruption and Xenophobia.

Thailand "officially" abolished slavery in 1912 but, as history shows, the former slaves, still remained under the "care" of the masters. This gave way to the Thai phrase of Khon Chai: servant. But not a servant in the modern social notion of work for pay. Khon Chai was someone who would do anything the master ordered.

Before reacting emotionally to pointed comments, it would behoove all of us to do research and document our opinions.

Such behavior will lead to Samwag Wayama samma vayama: the making of an effort to improve.

See chart below, please!

Ethical conduct (Sanskrit: śīla, Pāli: sīla)

3. Right speech samyag vāc,sammā vāca Speaking in a truthful and non-hurtful way

4. Right action samyag karman, sammā kammanta Acting in a non-harmful way

5. Right livelihood samyag ājīvana, sammā ājīva A non-harmful livelihood

doesn't this only apply to those who are not the 'lesser' beings? it's not thai people suffering after all.

[Docno]

Imposition of Puritan morality

The other thing that bothers me is that you see this statement repeatedly in the report (across countries), this year and in past years: "The government did not make an effort to reduce the demand for

commercial sex acts during the year."

First of all, it's not clear to me how a government can reduce demand for commercial sex (rather than supply). Second, what gives the Americans the right to condemn 'commercial sex' between two free and consenting persons?? Absolutely ridiculous...

The way to reduce demand is to impose severe penalties on the purchaser. In the US some local jurisdictions publish names and sometimes even pictures. If you are living in an area that takes those steps, you may decide to not use commercial sex.

But, I completely agree that sex, free or paid, between two consenting adults should not be controlled by any government agency.

Everyone, including Americans, have the right to their opinion. And, it is not only Americans who condem commercial sex. Why are you so irritated that other people have different morals than you? Aren't you, in fact, imposing your own moral outlook by condeming Americans?

I am condemning the American government (not the American people) for telling other countries that they need to accept American morality that criminalizes consensual activities between parties in which no-one is hurt. No I am clearly not trying to impose my moral outlook on them. The difference is plain: I'm not telling the American government how to run its country and what activities should be criminalised. I am simply saying that they have no right to tell us (other countries) what consensual non-harmful activities we need to ban. The imposition of morality is flowing in one direction only...

Edited June 24, 2013 by Docno

[bangkokheat]

i feel for those poor fishermen, to be lured onto the boats then abused, to a lessor degree its a bit like being a tourist or expat here, the lure of the girls, touristy destinations etc and then becoming the victim of extortion and corruption, sure we can stand there and be slapped in the face from a thai brandishing a gun, or set upon by blood thirsty gang of thai men, or lose your money thru the unethical and the corrupt, but at least we can say no more and leave, these men probably get threatened with becoming fish bait

[Docno]

i feel for those poor fishermen, to be lured onto the boats then abused, to a lessor degree its a bit like being a tourist or expat here, the lure of the girls, touristy destinations etc and then becoming the victim of extortion and corruption, sure we can stand there and be slapped in the face from a thai brandishing a gun, or set upon by blood thirsty gang of thai men, or lose your money thru the unethical and the corrupt, but at least we can say no more and leave, these men probably get threatened with becoming fish bait

Ummm... maybe you're being facetious and my humour-detector is broken today. But on the off chance that you're being serious, i am quite sure that what the 'enslaved' fishermen experience cannot not be at all compared to expats/tourists face here.

[YankeeVet]

Oh good grief. Stop blaming America for everything. I actually hosted a UN Human Trafficking group last year and spoke with a Myanmar citizen that was on a Thai fishing boat for several years. His story was quite convincing. Yes it was a Thai boat. He was held against his will. How many US registered vessels have people on board held in slavery or against their will? I've boarded over 1000 US vessels over the years and the answer is none. Most foreign vessels that visit the US are the same. Crew on board are professional mariners.

Edited June 24, 2013 by YankeeVet

[Thai at Heart]

Imposition of Puritan morality

The other thing that bothers me is that you see this statement repeatedly in the report (across countries), this year and in past years: "The government did not make an effort to reduce the demand for

commercial sex acts during the year."

First of all, it's not clear to me how a government can reduce demand for commercial sex (rather than supply). Second, what gives the Americans the right to condemn 'commercial sex' between two free and consenting persons?? Absolutely ridiculous...

The way to reduce demand is to impose severe penalties on the purchaser. In the US some local jurisdictions publish names and sometimes even pictures. If you are living in an area that takes those steps, you may decide to not use commercial sex.

But, I completely agree that sex, free or paid, between two consenting adults should not be controlled by any government agency.

Everyone, including Americans, have the right to their opinion. And, it is not only Americans who condem commercial sex. Why are you so irritated that other people have different morals than you? Aren't you, in fact, imposing your own moral outlook by condeming Americans?

I am condemning the American government (not the American people) for telling other countries that they need to accept American morality that criminalizes consensual activities between parties in which no-one is hurt. No I am clearly not trying to impose my moral outlook on them. The difference is plain: I'm not telling the American government how to run its country and what activities should be criminalised. I am simply saying that they have no right to tell us (other countries) what consensual non-harmful activities we need to ban. The imposition of morality is flowing in one direction only...

The buyer has the right to ask that the supplier at least complies with the suppliers own country's laws, doesn't he?

Is forced labour legal in Thailand? Not the last time I looked. The labour law in Thailand is fairly easy to interpret, so to comply if you own a fishing boat shouldn't be to confusing.

They even write it in Thai so the locals can read it.

[bentleyboy]

It's a problem which should be addressed ASAP but America should probably impose sanctions on itself too with about about 18,000 people trafficked to the U.S. each year, according to the State Department.[/size].

http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/human-trafficking-modern-day-slavery-america

By contrast though America takes serious steps to prevent it and punish those responsible.

[klauskunkel]

Imposition of Puritan morality

The other thing that bothers me is that you see this statement repeatedly in the report (across countries), this year and in past years: "The government did not make an effort to reduce the demand for

commercial sex acts during the year."

First of all, it's not clear to me how a government can reduce demand for commercial sex (rather than supply). Second, what gives the Americans the right to condemn 'commercial sex' between two free and consenting persons?? Absolutely ridiculous...

How to reduce demand for commercial sex:

1. subidise it: if it's free it won't be commercial

2. provide some sheep w/appropriate marketing: best ride of your life, HIV free, etc

3. tax rebates on blow-up dolls and other self-help items w/appropriate advertising: never breaks down, cleans up real good...

these are just of the top of my warped head...maybe you got some ideas to help out those governments?

[bangkokheat]

i feel for those poor fishermen, to be lured onto the boats then abused, to a lessor degree its a bit like being a tourist or expat here, the lure of the girls, touristy destinations etc and then becoming the victim of extortion and corruption, sure we can stand there and be slapped in the face from a thai brandishing a gun, or set upon by blood thirsty gang of thai men, or lose your money thru the unethical and the corrupt, but at least we can say no more and leave, these men probably get threatened with becoming fish bait

Ummm... maybe you're being facetious and my humour-detector is broken today. But on the off chance that you're being serious, i am quite sure that what the 'enslaved' fishermen experience cannot not be at all compared to expats/tourists face here.

no i wasnt being facetious, and of course nothing could compare with what those poor men must be going thru, my point was more about what goes on in thailand and what locals can get away with at the expense of human rights

[craigt3365]

That's a horrible thing to say. People worldwide are concerned about this. Even citizens from your country, right?

concerned? perhaps. but actually doing something against it? i don't think so. check the labels in your clothes... all made by poor (children) in sweatshop. unless u can afford expensive designer clothes that is. however, even those get now manufactured in (be-)low-wage countries (ie. exploitation).

I'd be willing to pay more for my goods and services if I could be assured they were produced by higher standards for the workers. But how do you make that happen?

[aussiebebe]

i feel for those poor fishermen, to be lured onto the boats then abused, to a lessor degree its a bit like being a tourist or expat here, the lure of the girls, touristy destinations etc and then becoming the victim of extortion and corruption, sure we can stand there and be slapped in the face from a thai brandishing a gun, or set upon by blood thirsty gang of thai men, or lose your money thru the unethical and the corrupt, but at least we can say no more and leave, these men probably get threatened with becoming fish bait

Yes I feel the same, the conditions are likely horrific. I hope the US does go ahead with sanctions as it's the only thing that will have an effect. I've seen the plight of fishermen on Thai boats in western media before and nothing ever changes because the fish is so cheap.

[F4UCorsair]

Arrrrgh, rum , sodomy, and the lash. Where can I sign up?

You worry me jaidam!!!

[Espen]

I have a neighbour who was a fisherman 10 years ago on a 10 foot boat with a crew of 60 people. The problems on board was mainly that the crew was divided in gangs from Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Vietnam and Burma.

About once a month somebody disappeared in the night, dumped overboard by rivals as revenge for the last guy who disappeared. Or because of a stupid quarrel.

My neighbour tells me that this was the reason fishermen were found washed up ashore tortured and killed. Not because the captain was a slave master, he had too big a crew to maintain any kind of order.

It may be different now if the thai fishing fleet has newer boats with more equipment and smaller crews. But I doubt it.

[unanimosity]

Well, isn't most Thai laws and traditions still operating in the 18th century era. Give 'em time...Thailand will catch up...maybe.

The time in New York is 1 p.m., and in Thailand it is 1750.

Edited June 24, 2013 by unanimosity