Ecuador 'analysing' Snowden asylum request: FM

[lannarebirth]

No, it doesn't fit the definition of a traitor. If it did Jane Fonda would still be in jail for activities far more damaging to American lives.

She is a traitor too. She just got away with it.

Jane Fonda aided a nation with which we were at war . There is absolutely zero evidence thusfar anyway that Snowden has given any specific intelligence to any foreign nation.

[Jingthing]

Not sure what the USA can do to get back at Ecuador. Boycott Panama Hats? Eat all the Guinea Pigs? Attack the Ecuadorian currency ... the U.S. dollar?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

This ain't about Hanoi Jane!

Your post was in the form of a question, so I answered it, citing an example.

[F430murci]

Russia Just Played A Cruel Prank On A Bunch Of Journalists, Who Are On A Flight To Havana Without Edward Snowden

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-just-punked-a-bunch-of-journalists-who-are-now-on-their-way-to-havana-2013-6#ixzz2X8Iu1TBx

they wouldn't show him. The Russians know that all spy satellites were beamed on that area where they could fetch any minute detail of who is boarding.

Is there a spy satellite on the ceiling of the airport. Russia is definitely not as luxurious as US, but I believe they can board people onto planes without them having to walk outside and climb up the plane's stairs. Need an X-ray satellite for that.

[sustento]

Not sure what the USA can do to get back at Ecuador. Boycott Panama Hats? Eat all the Guinea Pigs? Attack the Ecuador currency ... the U.S. dollar?

I'm sure they'll find a way. It's in their nature.

[FDog]

So some here think he is a traitor because he gave all the secrets to China, who then discarded him and then Russia which did the same.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps he has nothing more to tell? Perhaps he has told the newspapers what he knows and the Chinese thought it wasn't worth the hassle of having him. Russia thought they could get more info and offered a stopover but have since realised he has nothing so off he goes on his merry way.

[F430murci]

So some here think he is a traitor because he gave all the secrets to China, who then discarded him and then Russia which did the same.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps he has nothing more to tell? Perhaps he has told the newspapers what he knows and the Chinese thought it wasn't worth the hassle of having him. Russia thought they could get more info and offered a stopover but have since realised he has nothing so off he goes on his merry way.

Just hope on your part. Did he actually leave Russia? I dunno not do you.

I said yesterday morning that I doubt he was on that plane to Havana. You guys so wanted to believe he was and that he never left transit area of terminal.

Ponder this, perhaps he cut a deal with Russia before he left and downloaded a bunch of stuff for them. I can see Russia say you ain't coming here unless . . . Russia ain't stupid and Putin knows how to reap benefits from any situation.

Edited June 24, 2013 by F430murci

[wealth]

So some here think he is a traitor because he gave all the secrets to China, who then discarded him and then Russia which did the same.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps he has nothing more to tell? Perhaps he has told the newspapers what he knows and the Chinese thought it wasn't worth the hassle of having him. Russia thought they could get more info and offered a stopover but have since realised he has nothing so off he goes on his merry way.

That may come pretty close.

The NSA and the gov are afraid that there's more to come. Why? They must have some real nasty secrets.

[midas]

He'd rather fight the case in court if a fair trial could be granted and not the Manning style.

Horse manure. He is running from the law as he does not want to face justice for what he has done. Manning was on active duty in the military, so was in a much different category.

He has done nothing wrong other than reveal information USA would prefer other countries not to know about. ( I.e. embarrassment ). a bit like our other friend stuck in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

[F430murci]

He'd rather fight the case in court if a fair trial could be granted and not the Manning style.

Horse manure. He is running from the law as he does not want to face justice for what he has done. Manning was on active duty in the military, so was in a much different category.

He has done nothing wrong other than reveal information USA would prefer other countries not to know about. ( I.e. embarrassment ). a bit like our other friend stuck in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

How do you know what he has revealed???

[wealth]

how would you know?

At least I haven't caught him lying like the NSA and Obama multiple times within a couple of days. He had/has about 42 slides he played to the media (not sure but think to remember that figure right) and the Guardian and Washington blog showed only 4.

Phone tapping was revealed on June 5th at the Guardian, so it was not news.

[Chao Lao Beach]

NY Times:

“Mr. Snowden requested our expertise and assistance,” Mr. Assange said in a telephone interview from London on Sunday night. “We’ve been involved in very similar legal and diplomatic and geopolitical struggles to preserve the organization and its ability to publish.”

By Mr. Assange’s account, the group helped obtain and deliver a special refugee travel document to Mr. Snowden in Hong Kong that, with his American passport revoked, may now be crucial in his bid to travel onward from Moscow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/offering-snowden-aid-wikileaks-gets-back-in-the-game.html?pagewanted=all

[wealth]

Edward Snowden Videos

The following Edward Snowden Videos contains all Internet videos that reference [Edward Snowden, NSA]. These videos are unfiltered and contain a wide range of viewpoints and opinions. Our goal is that this section will become the most complete archive on the Internet for all videos related to Edward Snowden. Please check back often as new videos are added hourly. Thank you!

loads of craps as well, but as it says they're collection all clips about Snowden.

[lannarebirth]

NY Times:

“Mr. Snowden requested our expertise and assistance,” Mr. Assange said in a telephone interview from London on Sunday night. “We’ve been involved in very similar legal and diplomatic and geopolitical struggles to preserve the organization and its ability to publish.”

By Mr. Assange’s account, the group helped obtain and deliver a special refugee travel document to Mr. Snowden in Hong Kong that, with his American passport revoked, may now be crucial in his bid to travel onward from Moscow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/offering-snowden-aid-wikileaks-gets-back-in-the-game.html?pagewanted=all

I agree with Assange's quote in the article:

In a statement on Saturday, Mr. Assange suggested that President Obama was the real “traitor,” for betraying the hopes of a generation of idealists represented by both Private Manning and Mr. Snowden.

“They are young, technically minded people from the generation that Barack Obama betrayed,” Mr. Assange wrote on the WikiLeaks Web site. “They are the generation that grew up on the Internet, and were shaped by it. The U.S. government is always going to need intelligence analysts and systems administrators, and they are going to have to hire them from this generation and the ones that follow it.”

Mr. Assange added a warning to the government: “By trying to crush these young whistle-blowers with espionage charges, the U.S. government is taking on a generation, and that is a battle it is going to lose.”

These younger generations are not the craven, materialistic consumers of things and corporate media their Baby Boom and Gen X parents are. They're savvy, idealistic and the fact that little will be left to them leaves them little to lose by fighting to save their country.

[GentlemanJim]

I don't care if he's travelling legally or not. I don't approve that he is allowing himself to be used as an anti-American propaganda tool. I think he might be somewhat mentally unbalanced but I reckon he is well aware he is now being used this way. I think it stinks and if not a traitor he's certainly more SELFISH than HEROIC. If I ever see him in Ecuador, I'll tell him! I think this is relevant because he's trying to sell himself as a big hero. The running away move makes that ploy much less credible. If he believes in what he did, stand up for it.

He has no say in what other countries may do in using this situation to embarrass the US. Lets face it, the US deserve that at the very least. Do you want him to return to the US for a guaranteed 50 year stretch just because you think he is selfish? He is not a traitor, he is an all American hero if such a thing can exist anymore.

[Jingthing]

He goes to countries that he knows want to damage the U.S. Of course he is complicit in his case being used for anti-American propaganda.

[FDog]

He goes to countries that he knows want to damage the U.S. Of course he is complicit in his case being used for anti-American propaganda.

So what you are upset about is that he has told other countries that the US has been illegally doing things to them and also US citizens.

Even though the US has been chiding other countries for doing the same, but on a lesser scale.

Use your brain. He isn't likely to go to a country that is allied to the US as he would be extradited. So just going to a country that is not US friendly, in itself, is nothing. We don't know if he has told them anything he has already said publicly.

Edit: The US Govt is just spitting the dummy out because it is embarrassed it has been doing all these deeds and lambasting other countries for doing the same thing. They are completely embarrassed, again.

Edited June 24, 2013 by FDog

[lannarebirth]

He goes to countries that he knows want to damage the U.S. Of course he is complicit in his case being used for anti-American propaganda.

All the most damaging wounds to the US are self inflicted.

[Jingthing]

Drones in Ecuador? Who knew?

[FDog]

Drones in Ecuador? Who knew?

Its the drones in the US you have to be wary of.

[Emdog]

Seems USA is taking lessons in face over here. Doesn't seem to bother them about subverting the Constitution and international treaties as much as losing face. I think he did USA and world a service exposing this kind of crap. Think back 30 years: the mere suggestion of this level of intrusion into everyone on the planets lives (well, that are connected to some electronic device) would never ever ever have been tolerated. But bogeyman of terrorism allows those in power to be absolutely corrupted by it.

[Jingthing]

Why Ecuador?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/06/23/why_ecuador.html

The result: Snowden, avoiding extradition, is on a world tour of regimes generally more hostile to press and information freedom than the United States is. At the moment he's less concerned with irony than with avoiding jail.

[FDog]

Why Ecuador?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/06/23/why_ecuador.html

The result: Snowden, avoiding extradition, is on a world tour of regimes generally more hostile to press and information freedom than the United States is. At the moment he's less concerned with irony than with avoiding jail.

Well the US won't allow him to tell his story will they? But those that are not friendly to the US will allow him to do so. Funny old world isn't it when one has to go to an 'enemy country' to be able to tell the truth.

[geriatrickid]

Seems USA is taking lessons in face over here. Doesn't seem to bother them about subverting the Constitution and international treaties as much as losing face. I think he did USA and world a service exposing this kind of crap. Think back 30 years: the mere suggestion of this level of intrusion into everyone on the planets lives (well, that are connected to some electronic device) would never ever ever have been tolerated. But bogeyman of terrorism allows those in power to be absolutely corrupted by it.

30 years ago there wasn't an issue because there was no internet or cellular phone network in place.

Prior to the 1967 Katz ruling, the police did not require a warrant to listen in on a telephone call. In 1900 telephones became common in the USA, so far almost 67 years, the authorities could listen in. The Arizona v. Miranda ruling was only made in 1966. That means that between 1791 and 1966, a total of 175 years, no one was advised of their respective rights under the 4th and 6th amendments.

The issue of electronic snooping, and state sponsored terrorism compounded by the use of biological, and nuclear material is fairly recent. Suicide bombings are relatively recent. In the good old days of air travel, there was no security screening The world has changed and will keep on changing. Laws will be amended, and/or enacted to deal with the issues as they arise.

You have assumed that the world has not changed and does not change. You are wrong.

[FDog]

Seems USA is taking lessons in face over here. Doesn't seem to bother them about subverting the Constitution and international treaties as much as losing face. I think he did USA and world a service exposing this kind of crap. Think back 30 years: the mere suggestion of this level of intrusion into everyone on the planets lives (well, that are connected to some electronic device) would never ever ever have been tolerated. But bogeyman of terrorism allows those in power to be absolutely corrupted by it.

30 years ago there wasn't an issue because there was no internet or cellular phone network in place.

Prior to the 1967 Katz ruling, the police did not require a warrant to listen in on a telephone call. In 1900 telephones became common in the USA, so far almost 67 years, the authorities could listen in. The Arizona v. Miranda ruling was only made in 1966. That means that between 1791 and 1966, a total of 175 years, no one was advised of their respective rights under the 4th and 6th amendments.

The issue of electronic snooping, and state sponsored terrorism compounded by the use of biological, and nuclear material is fairly recent. Suicide bombings are relatively recent. In the good old days of air travel, there was no security screening The world has changed and will keep on changing. Laws will be amended, and/or enacted to deal with the issues as they arise.

You have assumed that the world has no changed and does not change. You are wrong.

With that reasoning one would think the US constitution, that you hold so dear is outdated. Therefore it should be amended, but until that happens the govt should adhere to it, not do some secret dealings to subvert it and hope no one finds out.

So what is the govt doing about those that lied under oath about this matter, anything? Or are they just trying to shoot the messenger?

[lannarebirth]

Seems USA is taking lessons in face over here. Doesn't seem to bother them about subverting the Constitution and international treaties as much as losing face. I think he did USA and world a service exposing this kind of crap. Think back 30 years: the mere suggestion of this level of intrusion into everyone on the planets lives (well, that are connected to some electronic device) would never ever ever have been tolerated. But bogeyman of terrorism allows those in power to be absolutely corrupted by it.

30 years ago there wasn't an issue because there was no internet or cellular phone network in place.

Prior to the 1967 Katz ruling, the police did not require a warrant to listen in on a telephone call. In 1900 telephones became common in the USA, so far almost 67 years, the authorities could listen in. The Arizona v. Miranda ruling was only made in 1966. That means that between 1791 and 1966, a total of 175 years, no one was advised of their respective rights under the 4th and 6th amendments.

The issue of electronic snooping, and state sponsored terrorism compounded by the use of biological, and nuclear material is fairly recent. Suicide bombings are relatively recent. In the good old days of air travel, there was no security screening The world has changed and will keep on changing. Laws will be amended, and/or enacted to deal with the issues as they arise.

You have assumed that the world has no changed and does not change. You are wrong.

There's a mechanism in place for changing the US Constitution too, if necessary, in the face of an ever changing world. If that mechanism is employed there is a path to change. If it is ignored change will come also, but it will be a dam_n sight uglier.

Edited June 24, 2013 by lannarebirth

[JDGRUEN]

So some here think he is a traitor because he gave all the secrets to China, who then discarded him and then Russia which did the same.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps he has nothing more to tell? Perhaps he has told the newspapers what he knows and the Chinese thought it wasn't worth the hassle of having him. Russia thought they could get more info and offered a stopover but have since realised he has nothing so off he goes on his merry way.

That may come pretty close.

The NSA and the gov are afraid that there's more to come. Why? They must have some real nasty secrets.

BINGO !!!

[khunken]

Two points from me.

One, it's not just about surveillance of US citizens but anyone in the world so he's certainly not a traitor to those who recognise the similarity with 1984's Big Brother;

Two , it's shown up the hypocrisy of the US publicly complaining about Chinese hackers (both government & non-government) when the US does the same to China.

I hope there's more.

[Ulysses G.]

Two , it's shown up the hypocrisy of the US publicly complaining about Chinese hackers (both government & non-government) when the US does the same to China.

China is stealing US industrial secrets on a large scale. The US is not guilty of that.

[khunken]

Two , it's shown up the hypocrisy of the US publicly complaining about Chinese hackers (both government & non-government) when the US does the same to China.

China is stealing US industrial secrets on a large scale. The US is not guilty of that.

Accused of by the US and not the Chinese government (so far). Proof has not yet emerged.