I Will Not Resign: Thaksin

[h90]

Maybe you understand me wrong, due to lack of english.....

"Other than a totally sexist comment. Thai girls married to ugly Farang but living in Thailand should be allowed to vote, by your thinking?"

yes it is their country....

" "It's not their country?" Mate.. It's a lot more their country than yours no matter where they are living. "

that sounds a bit strange. Austria is lot more their country than mine, even if they don't live there???

I guess I understand something wrong.....

"How about students studying out of country should they not be allowed to vote? How about Thai's working abroad, say at a Thai Embassy? Can they vote, they should be knowledgeable? Maybe only Thai's with doctoral degrees should be allowed to vote Or maybe only farmers should be allowed to vote because they are closer to the land."

By reading that, we may have a generell missunderstanding! It seems I speak about Farangs stay in Thailand, are allowed to vote for Thai elections, or Thai people stay in Farang land and are allowed to vote for farang gouverment. While when reading yours it seems you speak about Thai people stay outside Thailand should allowed to vote at Thailands elections (which is out of question I think)

"I don't have a clue what country you come from but I'm guessing you have the right to vote in that countries election. Maybe you should not be allowed to vote in your national elections because to use your words you don't have the knowlege to understand the cases there ."

it really seems we are discussing about two different topics caused either by bad english on my side or not carefully reading on your side or both....

[JT65]

Just my 2 cents worth.

Recently , probably about a week before the election the Mrs was watching the tele when she told me of a story in the news that many major roadworks and large projects has come to a screaming holt in Bangkok due to the fact that the Government does not have the money to complete them or even pay the workers. After this story no more seemed to be on the news about it. Of course this does not surprise me with the election a week away. Yesterday I spoke with a friend of mine who is an engineer and was working on a tunnel project in Bangkok, he told me he had been fired along with everyone else on the project with no notice. He is not even sure if he will be paid the money he is owed. This seems to support the story that was on the news.

This brings me to Chiangmai. I believe many people of Chiangmai are voting TRT as they know if Taksin is ousted from power all the major roadworks here will come to a screaming halt and probably never be finished. Most of the roads here over the last 2-3 years have been dug up and are under construction. We had a superhighway circle road which was perfect as it was and not even that old that was destroyed to be re built. Many residents are upset at the slow progress and no doubt realize that it will never be finished without TRT in power as will most of the other road projects in Chiangmai. I personally despise the man but I do hope the roads here can be completed otherwise Chiangmai will be left in absolute Chaos.

JT

[sriracha john]

I don't like if some Thai girls married to an ugly farang in Farangistan can vote, not their country and they don't have the knowledge to understand the cases their.

The way should be, if you get citizen you get the rights (on how easy/difficult you get citizenship is another difficult point).

Other than a totally sexist comment. Thai girls married to ugly Farang but living in Thailand should be allowed to vote, by your thinking? "It's not their country?" Mate.. It's a lot more their country than yours no matter where they are living. How about students studying out of country should they not be allowed to vote? How about Thai's working abroad, say at a Thai Embassy? Can they vote, they should be knowledgeable? Maybe only Thai's with doctoral degrees should be allowed to vote Or maybe only farmers should be allowed to vote because they are closer to the land.

I don't have a clue what country you come from but I'm guessing you have the right to vote in that countries election. Maybe you should not be allowed to vote in your national elections because to use your words you don't have the knowlege to understand the cases there.

It helps if you read the post accurately. He didn't say Thailand, he said Farangistan... check your world atlas... it's just north of you.

[jaapfries]

Adichai>> If you really think the 30baht-scheme has helped the poor or the loans to everyone that wanted it has put the poor in any better position then they where in before, then you better wake up and do it quickly.

It's almost amazing reading this from (semi-) educated expats (and other signups) on this board.

I agree! The bill of this stupid action is only paid by the poor and unaducated. They believe they get great benefits but they are not able to see that they pay way to much for it. Instead of using the money for aducate the poor children and to build schools and aducate the teachers better, the money goes directly in the pockets of their rulers. The ruling class want the country-people stay unaducated and stupid. I believe it is very easy to see why. The 30 baht health scam and the loans are nothing else then sand in the eyes of the rural people. It's just another way of cheating!

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So very refreshing to notice that SOME people are actually able to see through all the mirk and can recognize truths ! ! ! !

I totally agree ! ! !

Sorry4Siam

[Insight]

PM ready to suspend political career if all conflicting parties end movement

Christ, as if anybody will ever believe any more of his "Okay, I'll resign... maybe" comments now? Especially that one???

[cclub75]

He said he will form a parliament as soon the Election Commission has overseen the successful election of all 500 members.

Yes but they have to organize new elections in 38 constituencies (mainly in the south).

The catch is : if the opposition is still boycotting, how TRT can hope to get more than 20 % in the south the next time ?

If was not possible last sunday. Why it would be next month ?

Unless, TRT manages to pay a small party to present at least one candidate...

So it looks like a total dreadlock.

[jaapfries]

PM ready to suspend political career if all conflicting parties end movement

Christ, as if anybody will ever believe any more of his "Okay, I'll resign... maybe" comments now? Especially that one???

===============================================================

Correct ! ! ! !

I believe the real problem is, that IF Toxin would step back (last thing he wants to do, obviously) he will then become 'just another citizen', without the protection of "executive office". This would then clear the way for this character to be charged and prosecuted under a variety of laws. THAT is something he wouldn't be looking forward to, hence his reluctance to step down.

Thailand is an extremely corrupt country, disguised as a "Noble Nation". Look around your own station and argue that "corruption" isn't everywhere . . . . . . Well; the most corrupt individual in this beautiful Kingdom is name Thaksin Shinawatra and THAT's the whole truth ! ! !

Sorry4Siam

[Thaible]

It's all about putting money/benefits in peoples pockets - particularly those who haven't got it. To the rich/well off in Bangkok? Well Thaksins continuation might be a minor irritation but at least the wheels of the economy will continue to turn - remember where those zillions you have come from - the grass roots society who you employ so cheaply!

Uh, there's a flip side to that coin.

Poor people have a choice on how to spend their time. Apparently many of them prefer to spend it working for the rich and middle class (e.g. relatively "well off") for low wages. What's the alternative? Unemployement? Thank the rich and middle class for giving them a choice they woudn't otherwise have.

Interesting view point on a sink or swim society - no government funded social safety nets here!

"Government funded social safety nets" is another term for "stealing".

Take responsibility for yourself and stop blaming the government for everything bad that happens to you.

Thailand does not want to be a welfare state like certain countries in Europe where the citizens see the government as the father figure and they as the children. The government is there to provide for safety and public goods, nothing else.

[sriracha john]

Anyways let's see where this soap opera leads to next.

A much weaker THB hopefully

Come on, grow up. He commands a much greater majority than any other leader I can think of, and whether you like it or not, the majority are for him.

He is liked because he is the first one to provide real benefits for the poor in the rural areas. The main reason why he is hated by the Bangkok lot.

===============================================================

That is absolute rubbish, my friend ! But; I don't blame you at all for being this naive.

Of course it's rubbish, Jaapfries... it's just a provocative post by a not-so-imaginative-2-post troll that's received a lot of replies on this thread.

Best to save your efforts for those that deserve it...

excellent book, btw...

[sriracha john]

It's all about putting money/benefits in peoples pockets - particularly those who haven't got it. To the rich/well off in Bangkok? Well Thaksins continuation might be a minor irritation but at least the wheels of the economy will continue to turn - remember where those zillions you have come from - the grass roots society who you employ so cheaply!

Uh, there's a flip side to that coin.

Poor people have a choice on how to spend their time. Apparently many of them prefer to spend it working for the rich and middle class (e.g. relatively "well off") for low wages. What's the alternative? Unemployement? Thank the rich and middle class for giving them a choice they woudn't otherwise have.

Interesting view point on a sink or swim society - no government funded social safety nets here!

"Government funded social safety nets" is another term for "stealing".

Take responsibility for yourself and stop blaming the government for everything bad that happens to you.

Thailand does not want to be a welfare state like certain countries in Europe where the citizens see the government as the father figure and they as the children. The government is there to provide for safety and public goods, nothing else.

Darn... I was sort of hoping that you might slip in "public education" somewhere into that very narrow definition of what the government should provide...

oh well... as you say... I guess the public will just have to take responsibility for itself and pay for tuition at private institutions. Afterall, the fees at these are very much within everyone's means, right?

*edit

with apologies to everyone, I should heed my own advice to Jaapfries in the just prior post.

Edited April 4, 2006 by sriracha john

[markokang]

Anyways let's see where this soap opera leads to next.

A much weaker THB hopefully

Come on, grow up. He commands a much greater majority than any other leader I can think of, and whether you like it or not, the majority are for him.

He is liked because he is the first one to provide real benefits for the poor in the rural areas. The main reason why he is hated by the Bangkok lot.

****edited for inappropriate comments**** He provides bribes to low income villages to vote for him, and banks are forced to give compulsory loans to village people with no account of how they will spend it, unfortunately normally on cells phones and motorcycles!.. and then when it does come time to pay back the "no interest" loan they can't do so because their "invested" loan money hasn't gone anywhere! They end up in worse condition than when they started, most of these situations are coming to fruition as we speak

*****edited for inappropriate comments****

Edited April 4, 2006 by sbk

[bangkoksaint]

This is good! I think!!!

I personally like Mr Taksin, he's done a lot of this country and shouldn't be replaced!!!

[cclub75]

This is good! I think!!!

I personally like Mr Taksin, he's done a lot of this country and shouldn't be replaced!!!

Oh my.... the forum is flooded by trolls...

Come on little trolls go back to sleep. Have sweet dream. And let the adults do the talking.

[lukamar]

used either by bad english on my side or not carefully reading on your side or both....

Lets go with a bit of both and I apologize if I was too strong worded.

[h90]

accepted

h90

used either by bad english on my side or not carefully reading on your side or both....

Lets go with a bit of both and I apologize if I was too strong worded.

[lukamar]

Farangistan... check your world atlas... it's just north of you.

You must be in Neverland then, second to the right, and straight on till morning.

[sriracha john]

For h90:

You are multi-lingual, can you help translate the previous post into English, please?

Thanks.

[lukamar]

For h90:

You are multi-lingual, can you help translate the previous post into English, please?

Thanks.

Read Peter Pan, you'll get the jist of it, Especially if you try and jump out of the window.

[h90]

yes peter pan if I am not wrong.

But I don't know if Peter Pan is a farang or a thai or maybe he is indian or muslim.

Definitly he is not austrian, because in the movie he never drank beer from the bottle....

For h90:

You are multi-lingual, can you help translate the previous post into English, please?

Thanks.

[Jai Dee]

Promin says Govt in talk with neutral people on reconciliation committee

PM's Secretary-General Promin Lertsuridej said on Tuesday that some neutral people were mediating between the government and its opponents to try to reach reconciliation.

But Promin said the details of talk could not be made public yet.

He said there need to be a reconciliation committee whose members have to be accepted by all sides in the conflicts so the neutral persons were in the process of negotiating between the government and its opponents.

He said the government could not set up the reconciliation committee on its own as its opponents might not accept the panel members.

Source: The Nation - Breaking News - 4 April 2006

[lukamar]

Definitly he is not austrian, because in the movie he never drank beer from the bottle....

Good one..

[bulmercke]

I am a middle-class in Bangkok and the reason we don't want him is not against the poor. I just want to make sure my son can grow up and can compete in a fair country. I just want my son to have a place to stand at the same level with his son. The way he uses poor peoples as the hostage just make us sick. We are feeling like a foreigner here in Thailand now.

Well, middle class Bangkok, Thaksin is the answer for decades of ignoring the needs of the poor. While middle and upper class Thailand still think within their own class, Thaksin has managed to give a voice to the poor in the North and Isaarn.

Does he help the poor? Not exactly, he gives them very little.

But has any other government else helped the poor? Nops, not at all.

Has any political party in Thailand any sort of program designed to help the poor? Not that i have heard of.

You definately want your son and your grandson grow up in a fair society. But so do millions of fellow Thais who are living in poverty.

Isn't it time to find a solution for all Thais, especially the ones who have not gotten anything?

Even if you agree with his populist policies this shouldn't give him immunity to do what he likes. There is a huge black cloud of corruption over him, he also has given scant consideration for democracy where the media is concerned (a true democracy has a media that's not interfered with) and everyone seems to ignore his appalling record on human rights.

For someone as rich and powerful as Thaksin the rural vote was never in question.

(remember Marcos had a similar hold on the Filipino poor!)

I don't agree with his populist policies.

Nevertheless, Thailand is slowly slipping into a crises in which issues such as corruption will be minor compared to the consequences of the ongoing conflict.

What we are having is not comparable to the past powerstruggles between elitist fractions that hardly touched the emotions of the countryside. What we have is about half the population pro Thaksin, and the other half either against him or does not want to get drawn into taking sides. Those fractions are clearly divided by largely economic divisions. If this is not solved ASAP on the negotiation table, ALL Thais are in for very difficult times, regardless of political affiliation or social class.

Both sides, for the good of ALL have to work out a compromise. That compromise must involve the rural poor, and accept their trust in Thaksin. Misled as they may be, they have a democratic right that their opinions are taken serious.

If Thaksin is forced out over their head without a for them acceptable compromise, can you imagine the long term consequences, especially regarding social peace and security matters?

We have seen over the last 3 years a tremendous rise in all sorts of violence in Thailand, especially random violence. If the PAD and their mainly middle class supporters do not work towards a compromise with Thaksin, one of the long term effects will be further rise of nihilism under large sectors of the Thai society.

Even today, away from the public eye, certain industrial suburbs have developed into nighly no-go zones, in which the gangs rule and terrorize the population. There, politics does not matter much anymore.

If people want this to become Thailand's future, just keep on this with this madness.

ColPyat - good post - but can you give any examples of these no-go zones?

[h90]

Definitly he is not austrian, because in the movie he never drank beer from the bottle....

Good one..

guess where I come from

[bulmercke]

Promin says Govt in talk with neutral people on reconciliation committee

PM's Secretary-General Promin Lertsuridej said on Tuesday that some neutral people were mediating between the government and its opponents to try to reach reconciliation.

But Promin said the details of talk could not be made public yet.

He said there need to be a reconciliation committee whose members have to be accepted by all sides in the conflicts so the neutral persons were in the process of negotiating between the government and its opponents.

He said the government could not set up the reconciliation committee on its own as its opponents might not accept the panel members.

Source: The Nation - Breaking News - 4 April 2006

Sorry to say, but all this talk of reconciliation and the setting up of a reconciliation committee is just 'pie-in-the-sky'.

It will never work. Thaksin threw this idea into the political arena yesterday - it was nothing but a sop - i.e. to quieten and pacify all those who were obviously dissatisfied with the government - as shown by those who either voted for opposition parties or voted 'no'.

Even if this committee does come to fruition and is truly impartial - who is to say he has to abide by it's recomendations - i.e. step-down.

Thaksin does what Thaksin wants.

[ColPyat]

Even today, away from the public eye, certain industrial suburbs have developed into nighly no-go zones, in which the gangs rule and terrorize the population. There, politics does not matter much anymore.

If people want this to become Thailand's future, just keep on this with this madness.

Could this be why Thaksin is so popular in the Bangkok suburbs? Have his "tough" policies on drugs and crime had a concrete impact? I wouldn't know, I'm asking from your personal experience.

On your other comments, I believe that even though Thaksin is one of the most despicable leaders to have ever ruled Thailand, ousting him in the way the PAD wants is asking for trouble. I think it's time for all sides to talk behind closed doors with a Privy Councillor a moderator.

Yes, this is one of the major reasons why he is so popular in the suburbs. The get tough policies had a immediate impact. Of course, personally, i believe that these get tough policies will in the long run result in the opposite. For example, the rise in random violence i believe is a result of the tough drug war policies.

But what i believe is besides the point, what counts in a democracy is what the majority believes.

And yes, i do believe that there should be closed door negotiations held. But, as we have seen, both the ex-opposition parties and the PAD have refused to take part in the ones offered by Thaksin. I hope they change their mind.

As to the people who believe the 30 Baht health sceme does not give the poor anything, where do you people live?

Several relatives of my wife get free antiretroviral therapy for their HIV infection under the 30 baht sceme, including free treatment for their AIDS related deseases, such as meningitis and tuberculoses. Before the 30 Baht sceme AIDS patients who could not afford the treatments simply died.

Another friend fractured her spine in a fall. The 30 Baht scheme paid her 2 operations and a very long hospital stay, and today she walks perfectly. Without the 30 baht sceme she would be in a wheel chair.

This is what is seen by the people who before had no (almost) free health service. Of course it is underfunded. Of course many deseases are not paid for. But it still is better than what they have had before.

If any other party comes up with some serious improvements, and also is able to promote those policies, good.

But as long as the opposition is only criticising Thaksin without offering any better policies to the poor i doubt they will ever build any confidence with those folks, and therefore will not make much impact in any coming election.

I think that people let their hatred against Thaksin blind them towards realities. Pre Thaksin was not that much better (other that the bars opened a bit longer ). Just remember, we had one almost inoperable coalition government after the other, whose decision making processes were more influenced by the ego games of the different coalition partners than the will to improve things.

Of course Thaksin's TRT is similarly blocked by infighting between fractions, but in the perception of his voters Thaksin has achieved more than anyone before for what they see as their immediate needs.

I see no indication that any of the opposition parties make any effort to transform themselves from mainly regional based into true people's parties and just sit the situation out to return to the old conditions. Which is as little a step forward as a continuation of Thaksin's game.

What was the old game? Democrats got their 70 to 100 seats from the South and the urban centres, formed coalitions with pseudo parties from local politico godfathers mostly interested in filling their pockets with budget allocations on infrastructure projects.

Chavalit got in because he did the same in Isaarn.

Thaksin was smart - first he took Chavalit's New Aspiration into his first coalition, and swallowed him up then. He took in Sanoh, and Newin and all the others, and this way outsmarted the rest of the players. This way he has the appearance of a people's party, and he has the numbers necessary to rule the country.

Edited April 4, 2006 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

ColPyat - good post - but can you give any examples of these no-go zones?

The area i have been studying most closely over the last years is is Samut Prakan, especially Samlong Dai. Some Sois there have almost nightly shoot outs and knife fights between the youth gangs.

The Rama 2 area in Thonburi is very bad too, so are some areas in Rangsit.

Expanding in size, and quality of violence.

[Jai Dee]

Mr. Suranand affirms that PM would like to create unity in the country

Executive member of Thai Rak Thai Party Suranand Vejjajiva (สุรนันทน์ เวชชาชีวะ) has reaffirmed that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra would like to place attain peace in the country, adding that the premier is ready and willing to reconcile with every party.

As for the premier’s condition to resign from his post should the demonstrators confirm to stop their movements, Mr. Suranand stated that the premier does not intend to set the condition as he is only attempting to bring peace back to Thailand.

He would like every side to help seek ways to dissolve the current political crisis rather than opposing against each other ideas.

He has admitted that there are different views within Thai Rak Thai Party. However, every party member must discuss and jointly seek for the best ways to solve the national issues.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 April 2006

[Smithson]

Why would any of the opposition or PAD trust Thaksin to set up a nuetral independent commision.

The crisis largely seems to have developed from his percieved control of supposed independent regulatory bodies such as the EC, constitution court etc. The senate has also been seen as favoring TRT, with alegations of vote buying.

If he is serious about reconciliation, then he should be willing to allow scrutiny of the Shin sale.

[ColPyat]

From The Nation:

Phang Nga motorists targeted

People with Phang Nga licence plates have been refused service at petrol stations in the neighbouring southern provinces of Surat Thani and Nakhon Si Thammarat as an act of retribution for allowing the South's only Thai Rak Thai MP to win back his seat.

A man, who asked not to be named, whose car has Phang Nga licence plates complained that he was insulted then asked to leave a petrol station in Ban Na San district in Surat Thani.

"It's because Phang Nga people let the TRT candidate win the MP seat," he said, quoting the station attendant's reason for not serving him. A number of similar incidents took place last year after Kris Srifa won the only TRT MP seat in the South from 52 candidates.

Kris also won more than 20 per cent of the vote on Sunday, meaning he will probably retain his seat for a second term when the result is confirmed.

News agencies in Nakhon Si Thammarat carried similar reports, where Phang Nga residents claimed they had been refused service at many petrol stations for the same reason.

In Phatthalung, six men were injured when a drunken brawl ended in gunshots. The fight started when a man from the Thai Rak Thai stronghold of Chiang Mai was forced by his companions to speak the southern dialect but failed.

Jankaew Sakda was shot and seriously injured along with two other men who were drinking at a funeral held in Pa Bon district.

Police are trying to find the gunman and three other men who fled the scene after the shooting.

Witnesses told Pa Bon police that the six men, including Jankaew, were drinking and discussing politics and tempers became frayed.

Preecha Kingthongmark, of Phatthalung, who was also shot and injured, reportedly forced Jankaew to try speak the southern dialect. The six men then had a fistfight after Jankaew failed to speak the dialect satisfactorily.

Time to find a compromise.

[tettyan]

Time to find a compromise.

Agreed. Now that everyone has shown their cards, it`s time to stop shouting and start talking.

Looking at the election results, it looks like the biggest losers were the old political barons who were in opposition - namely, Banharn in Suphan Buri, Sanoh in Sa Kaew, and Sanan in Phichit. Even though these guys threw their support behind the "no vote" campaign, TRT support in their respective backyards far outstripped abstentions. It`s no surpise that there are already rumours that Banharn is seeking talks with TRT.