Russia's anti-gay laws have teeth -- gay priders assaulted

[Scott]

There will always be elements of a society and culture which are accepting and there are elements which will be homophobic. Without laws to protect people and provide them with human and civil rights, they are basically prisoners who are confined by the narrow elements of a society which accepts them.

[harryfrompattaya]

Instead of complaining on Thai Visa show support by going to Russia and complain their. Or at least call the Russia Embassy and maybe picket them

Edited May 3, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[Jingthing]

Instead of complaining on Thai Visa show support by going to Russia and complain their. Or at least call the Russia Embassy and maybe picket them

It is illegal for non-Thais to engage in protests in Thailand.

I'm sure Putin can't wait to use foreign gay activists visiting Russia to add fuel to his anti-western influence propaganda.

I find both of your suggestions disingenuous.

[harryfrompattaya]

Instead of complaining on Thai Visa show support by going to Russia and complain their. Or at least call the Russia Embassy and maybe picket them

It is illegal for non-Thais to engage in protests in Thailand.

I'm sure Putin can't wait to use foreign gay activists visiting Russia to add fuel to his anti-western influence propaganda.

I find both of your suggestions disingenuous.

I am shock you will attack me you can call a Russia Embassy in America and yes you can protest in Russia or other countries besides Thailand

Take care and try Remember Soviet Jewelry protests

Le Roy and I protested in front of the United Nations and the Soviet Embassy because the support we got from the Jews in the Civil Rights movement

Please Protest if you believe in the Gay Rights.

Edited May 3, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[Jingthing]

Be shocked all you like.

Yes you can protest in your own country.

This is a Thai expat forum.

I am well aware of the Free Soviet Jewry movement and you're right Jews went in there to help.

But sorry buddy, this is not the SAME kind of situation.

Putin is specifically linking Russian gay rights to western decadence.

Westerners coming in to protest wouldn't be helpful and Russian gays have made it pretty clear they don't want that.

It made sense somewhat at Sochi as that was an international event though, but weirdly, didn't happen. Especially considering what Sochi turned out to be -- a total Putin propaganda show.

Also most Russian Jews wanted to escape and now MOST have.

My impression is most Russian gays want Russia to CHANGE and not to escape.

Maybe later more will want to escape, some do now of course, but that hasn't happened yet.

Now with the heat up in Ukraine, this has become even more complicated ... with Putin linking the west both to gay western decadence AND fascism.

It can't really be helped now, the gay thing is deeply mixed with the current seriously bad OVERALL relations between the west and Russia.

I think Ukraine and worries about Putin's expansionism trumps the gay issue now ... that probably isn't good for the Russian gays, but that's where we're at.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

I don't think the Ukraine issue has anything to do with gay rights in Russia.

[Jingthing]

I don't think the Ukraine issue has anything to do with gay rights in Russia.

How surprising

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

I think that when people are persecuted, whether they are gays or Jews, they would like their home country to change. Pulling up stakes and leaving your home country and culture is probably the last thing most people want to do.

[Jingthing]

I think that when people are persecuted, whether they are gays or Jews, they would like their home country to change. Pulling up stakes and leaving your home country and culture is probably the last thing most people want to do.

That depends.

Again, different groups, different times, different situations, different rate of desire to flee:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130936993

Also for the Jews there is Israel. There is no gay Israel with right of return for all gays. Not that there should be or will be, just pointing out a difference.

While I see similarities between the Free Soviet Jewry movement and the persecution of gays in Putin's Russia, I also see BIG differences.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

This is interesting.

Dictator Putin has now blacklisted large USA fundraisers for gay civil rights causes as retaliation for USA sanctions done in response for Russian aggression in Ukraine.

What Putin has been doing is launching a very effective propaganda campaign against the west in general ... over NATO, over Ukraine, over gay civil rights seen as decadence that is a threat to Mother Russia.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/02/exclusive-putin-secretly-sanctioned-top-obama-campaign-donors.html

This is not quite a new cold war ... but it's something ...

Exclusive: Putin Imposes Secret Sanctions on Pro-Gay Obama Campaign Donors

The Kremlin has expanded a secret list of Americans banned from entry to Russia, and campaign bundlers tied to the LGBT community are on it.

The Kremlin has expanded its secret “black list” of Americans banned from Russia to include Obama campaign fundraisers tied to the LGBT community and senior Congressmen, diplomatic sources tell The Daily Beast. Moscow’s list, these sources say, was expanded in retaliation to the Obama administration’s attack on the assets of key business associates of Vladimir Putin in March.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

It is interesting but not really surprising that Russia does the same as the US does, namely blacklisting people they don't like. Look at it without bias, and you'll see that they are simply reacting.

[Scott]

The sanctions are the same. The US sanctions are aimed at hurting a specific group of Russians. Putin's ban is also aimed at hurting a specific group of Russians.

[Jingthing]

Basically it's a FACT that Russian propaganda (their press is Putin controlled, more so now than ever) HAS indeed linked their virulent anti-gay oppression with their position on Ukraine. That's what I was talking about obviously. Of course there is going to be a tit for tat between Russia and the west now, nobody is denying that. My point in regards to this thread is that there an UNDENIABLE propaganda linkage in Russia of gay issues and Ukraine.

Of course things are now bleaker than ever for Russia's gays and now it looks like there may even be war in Ukraine ... so the focus of international attention will certainly NOT be on them anytime soon.

There is also a narrative in the Russian media that pro-gay rights groups are behind the events in the Ukraine, specifically "members of Other Russia, an unregistered opposition political party, election monitoring organization Golos, as well as various LGBT groups."

http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/03/russian-state-run-media-tour-us-meddling-ukraine-corrupt-and-russia-right/358751/

Edited May 4, 2014 by Jingthing

[Scott]

I think there are threads in the World News Section where it might be more appropriate to debate the political situation with regard to the Ukraine.

[Jingthing]

More on the connection between the anti-gay laws in Russia and Putin's aggression in Ukraine. I don't think most people outside the gay forum are interested in hearing about the anti-gay connection aspect of it. It directly relates to this thread though. If I posted this outside the gay forum, people would complain, post this gay stuff on the gay forum ...

Obviously it's part of Putin's successful propaganda plan to LINK very popular anti gay sentiment with building up intense hostility and paranoia about THE WEST in general. Tolerance for gay civil rights has been painted as a western thing, and thus against "Russian" values.

“We now understand, if you’re taking a look at what’s going on in Russia and Ukraine,” he said. “It doesn’t have anything to do with us. And now you see. He needed to pull together his people. He needed the right-wing people to line up. And what lines people up better than anti-gay? It’s the same as Hitler did with the Jews. Just demonize someone — ‘We all hate homos! Yeah, we all hate homos!’ And they line up behind him and then you find out that while you’re lined up behind him, he’s taking a country. It had nothing to do with antigay laws. It had to do with calling anything from the West ‘evil’ and repatriating Ukraine. Not a pretty picture. But it’s how the world works.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/11/harvey-fierstein-casa-valentina_n_5302449.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

Edited May 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[raybal5]

As much as I would like to visit Russia to see some of their incredible buildings, they will never get any of my money because of their offensive personality as a country.

[Scott]

I won't be visiting Russia again, but my reasons are a little less ultruistic. I'll probably end up in jail. I am just not good at controlling myself and with a witch hunt going on, I'd hate to get caught with my pants down, so to speak.

[Jingthing]

I won't be visiting Russia again, but my reasons are a little less ultruistic. I'll probably end up in jail. I am just not good at controlling myself and with a witch hunt going on, I'd hate to get caught with my pants down, so to speak.

I think you can play there in private. Just can't go and say something outrageous like gay is OK in public.

[Scott]

Thanks, JT, you have a lot more faith in my ability to control my impulses than I do.

[Jingthing]

It wasn't on my list anyway.

Ukraine being where "my people" come from I am more interested in though ...

but probably won't ever bother.

[Jingthing]

A report about the impact of the Russian anti-gay laws after one year of being in effect:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/putins-anti-lgbt-law-turns-one

“Witch hunts, arrests, poisonous gas attacks, and murders. Not only do these terms evoke powerful memories of brutal regimes that fill the pages of history books, they also represent the very real dangers that LGBT people face each and every day in Vladimir Putin’s Russia,” said Ty Cobb, HRC Foundation’s Global Engagement Director. “The evidence is clear: state-sponsored homophobia and transphobia in Russia poses a direct threat to the safety and welfare of LGBT Russians, and that threat is growing.”

“The consequences of this law for all Russian society are difficult to overestimate,” said Maria Kozlovskaya, Program Manager for the advocacy group Russian LGBT Network. “Our public polls suggest that the level of violence against LGBT people has increased significantly, and that members of the community feel vulnerable and targeted.”

[Scott]

There are increasing numbers of gays that are leaving Russia. Here's one link:

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-17/gay-russian-gets-asylum-and-new-life-us

[sustento]

Where's Stephen Fry when you need him? I actually wrote to the Russian Ambassador in London before the Olympics kicked off asking him W T F was going on in his country. The letter I got back was pretty much as expected:

Dear Sir - Thank you for your letter blah blah blah. It was signed by the man who cleans his Zil.

[Jingthing]

Happy happy joy joy.

Russian dictator Putin spreads his campaign of anti-gay hatred to Ukraine.

Sergei Aksyonov, who came to power after the peninsula was annexed by Russia in March, appears to be following Vladimir Putin’s lead in restricting rights for the LGBT community.

Speaking during a government session in Simferopol on Tuesday, he said gay people "have no chance" in the new Crimea and should be “educated” about their orientation.

“We in Crimea do not need such people, and they will never hold their events publicly,” he said according to Interfax news agency.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/crimean-pm-says-police-and-military-will-teach-gay-people-what-orientation-to-have-in-crackdown-on-lgbt-community-9709289.html

[earthpig]

There is nothing remotely hateful about what Putin is saying:

"It has nothing to do with persecuting people for their non-traditional orientation," Putin said Friday. "My personal position is that society must keep children safe."

Mr. Putin is not the only person with that position, and I for one congratulate him for it. As I suspect the vast majority of humanity would as well.

By the way, remember how in the lead up to Sochi all the homosexual apologists were arguing that after the olympics the sky would fall in on homosexuals in Russia? It turned out to be silly nonsense.

And the only hate displayed by either side in this affair.

[Jingthing]

There is nothing remotely hateful about what Putin is saying:

"It has nothing to do with persecuting people for their non-traditional orientation," Putin said Friday. "My personal position is that society must keep children safe."

Mr. Putin is not the only person with that position, and I for one congratulate him for it. As I suspect the vast majority of humanity would as well.

By the way, remember how in the lead up to Sochi all the homosexual apologists were arguing that after the olympics the sky would fall in on homosexuals in Russia? It turned out to be silly nonsense.

And the only hate displayed by either side in this affair.

Sure thing, dude.

Perhaps some homophobic bigots reading the GAY forum might buy the lies you are selling.

One can never tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia

In June 2013, Russia received international criticism for enacting an anti-LGBT propaganda law, which purportedly was to prevent distribution of "non-traditional sexual relationships" ideas among minors. The law is an amendment to an existing child protection law, and followed similar regional laws passed since 2006.^[4]Human rights observers, LGBT activists, and international media disputed its stated purpose of protecting children, and traditional family values, criticizing the law for being a de facto criminalization of LGBT culture, as well as the efforts for LGBT rights, with some noting that even displaying LGBT symbols in public was made illegal by this legislation, which subsequent arrests bore out.^[5] They also reported a surge in anti-LGBT rhetoric, violence, and hate crimes, many of which using the law as justification.^{[6][7][8][9][10]} A number of LGBT rights protesters have also been arrested under the law.^[11][12]

International rights groups have described the current situation as the worst human rights climate in the post-Soviet era, while Russian historian and human rights activist Lyudmila Alexeyeva called the anti-propaganda law "a step toward the Middle Ages."^[5] Britain's Channel 4 produced a documentary, Hunted, about life for LGBT people under the new law, showing how it legitimized vigilante groups who hunt and abuse LGBT people, especially young gay men, in "a wave of terror."^[10] Since the law was enacted, Russian LGBT people seeking asylum in the U.S. has spiked fourfold.^[13] In addition to activists, leaders of foreign governments have condemned the law, as have 27 Nobel prize winners from the fields of science and the arts.^[14]

[Jingthing]

...

By the way, remember how in the lead up to Sochi all the homosexual apologists were arguing that after the olympics the sky would fall in on homosexuals in Russia? It turned out to be silly nonsense.

...

Unfortunately, not so silly, mate.

Homosexual apologist?

Why do gay people have anything to apologize for any more than straight people?

Not literally asking you, Sir Earthpig.

(Premieres Oct 6th on HBO)

Edited September 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[bonobo]

A post has been removed for linking pederasty with homosexuality.

[sustento]

Who's David Thorstad? He's certainly not my leader.

[Jingthing]

Russia's "gay propaganda" gambit is spreading ...

Check out the graphic.

Borat couldn't make this stuff up.

Kazakhstan Politicians Call for DNA Testing to Identify Gays

Extreme conservatives in this Central Asian country believe "degeneratism" can be found in a gay person's DNA.

http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/09/16/kazakhstan-politicians-call-dna-testing-identify-gays