Russia's anti-gay laws have teeth -- gay priders assaulted

[ToddWeston]

Here's an idea since change won't magically happen within Russia, we've been told how Obama is pro gay and things are chanigning in the USA for the better.

Why doesn't the USA allow say 100,000 gay tourist visas to be issued and then allow them to claim refugee status in America. This way Putin gets a slap in the face and there is a strong Russian lobby abroad who understands what we don't know and who are able then able to change things a lot faster than foreign lobbyists/protests et al.

This would also have an immediate impact on people in Russia when they start having their friends, sons, daughter, brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts quickly emigrating to America.

2 gay Russians claimed refugee status in Canada this week, who knows a strong leader could emerge from within if there are 100k freedom fighters working abroad.

[Jingthing]

That's funny that you said that.

Believe it or not I was thinking a very similar thing (open up access to refugee status to gay Russians) just after I posted what else can we do, but I decided for some reason not to post about it right away.

I like the idea, especially if things get much worse.

It's not an easy sell though. The western economies are not doing great. It MIGHT be able to be done by Obama as part of a total package of expressing in action the new horrible USA-Russia relations.

There is another problem though with this idea though.

There are MANY countries with horrible anti-gay laws and cultures as bad as and worse than Russia, so it isn't really super fair to be especially open to gay Russians.

Not that immigration policies have to be or ever are super fair, but it would be part of the opposition to the idea, that so many people just can't be absorbed.

Yet another angle, I don't think Russia is all that IMPORTANT anymore in terms of overall U.S. foreign policy. So if part of this is as package to punish/embarrass Russia it may be deemed not worth it because Russia isn't important enough anymore. I know they THINK they are, but they really aren't. My point is something like this won't be done only for humanitarian reasons, there would have to be a geopolitical sell point as well. I know some of you hate politics but I prefer to live in the real world.

Even when the Nazis were gassing European Jews by the millions, and trust me, the USA government knew it, the official U.S. immigration policy on Jewish visa applications was STALL THEM INDEFINITELY. Yes the Jewish lobby at the time in the USA was trying madly to get this policy changed, but they FAILED because in those days it was a very WEAK and disorganized lobby. Hopefully it will never get that bad for gays in Russia, but my point is obviously it's not an easy thing to get governments to grant masses of refugee visas.

It's still a good idea.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

It's comforting to know such a strong voice for running back into the closet the moment the going gets rough is so well represented here.

The going isn't getting "rough" for those doing all the talking.

I recall one poster mentioning flights to Moscow a while ago, although I can't find the actual post - those doing all the talking are always free to go and do something themselves if they want to, and with the World Athletics Championships in Moscow at the moment and on the news every night now would seem to be a very good time.

Its very easy to encourage others to risk their freedom (and their safety), but I don't see any sign of gay activists queueing up for Aeroflot - there's a vast difference between waving a rainbow flag from the safety of one's armchair, or even from that of a western Pride, and actually putting one's own liberty at risk.

[Jingthing]

Fair enough, but there's also a big difference between not actually protesting in Russia yourself and being vehemently OPPOSED to any protests by either Russians or foreigners.

Also note, if the goal was to SHUT DOWN any comments or SUPPORT for protests in Russia by Russians and/or foreigners from people who don't plan on actually traveling to Russia, nice try, no cigar.

Keep in mind I realize as a consistent voice of support for GAY ACTIVISM on this forum, I am in the minority here. Please respect minority rights of free expression. We don't need to hear EVERY TIME someone voices support for gay activism that their opinion is worthless because they're not there themselves. We got it. This kind of personal dig has already been telegraphed more than once. I think ... ENOUGH.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

I'm not sure what I feel more, anger or desperate sadness after reading this article. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/08/the-20-most-shocking-anti-gay-news-stories-from-russia-so-far/

What's going on is truly horrible.

Stephen Fry -- another gay (Jewish) hero!

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/07/stephen-fry-compares-russian-winter-olympics-to-nazi-hosted-1936-olympics-in-letter-to-david-cameron/

The idea that sport and politics don’t connect is worse than disingenuous, worse than stupid. It is wickedly, wilfully wrong. Everyone knows politics interconnects with everything for “politics” is simply the Greek for “to do with the people”.

OK, Fry is calling for a boycott. Personally I think it might be better to make Sochi a showcase of PROTEST against the persecutors.

One view of the absurdity of Fry's letter and his comparison to Hitler's treatment of Jews: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100230115/just-when-you-thought-stephen-fry-couldnt-get-any-more-pompous-he-declares-war-on-russia-on-behalf-of-the-civilised-world/

Nearly as absurd as hailing him as a "Jewish" hero - his views on Judaism and the State of Israel are very well known: "those desert tribes have stored up more misery for mankind than anybody in the history of this planet, and they're doing it to this day". He is "Jewish" by descent on his mother's side, certainly not by belief, choice or upbringing.

This continued introduction of the "Jewish" card (and its subsequent regular withdrawal and abuse of those who point out its inappropriatness) is nearly as tedious as the continued introduction of American politicians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX4nlBBH8ng.

[Jingthing]

I'm not sure what I feel more, anger or desperate sadness after reading this article. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/08/the-20-most-shocking-anti-gay-news-stories-from-russia-so-far/

What's going on is truly horrible.

Stephen Fry -- another gay (Jewish) hero!

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/07/stephen-fry-compares-russian-winter-olympics-to-nazi-hosted-1936-olympics-in-letter-to-david-cameron/

The idea that sport and politics don’t connect is worse than disingenuous, worse than stupid. It is wickedly, wilfully wrong. Everyone knows politics interconnects with everything for “politics” is simply the Greek for “to do with the people”.

OK, Fry is calling for a boycott. Personally I think it might be better to make Sochi a showcase of PROTEST against the persecutors.

One view of the absurdity of Fry's letter and his comparison to Hitler's treatment of Jews: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100230115/just-when-you-thought-stephen-fry-couldnt-get-any-more-pompous-he-declares-war-on-russia-on-behalf-of-the-civilised-world/

Nearly as absurd as hailing him as a "Jewish" hero - his views on Judaism and the State of Israel are very well known: "those desert tribes have stored up more misery for mankind than anybody in the history of this planet, and they're doing it to this day". He is "Jewish" by descent on his mother's side, certainly not by belief, choice or upbringing.

This continued introduction of the "Jewish" card (and its subsequent regular withdrawal and abuse of those who point out its inappropriatness) is nearly as tedious as the continued introduction of American politicians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX4nlBBH8ng.

Nice try. No cigar again. I was calling him a GAY hero and put (Jewish) in parenthesis to indicate his ethnic background. Too bad you didn't get that before you posted your little OTP thing there.

The obvious JEWISH connection to the Russian gay issue here is more layered and relevant than you are willing to admit. BUT the topic is not about anti-semitism in general or being for or against Zionism per se.

Remember Save Soviet Jewry?

As far as American politicians, sorry Charlie, the USA remains the most powerful country in the world. IF Obama had said, let's boycott Sochi, there WOULD be a boycott of Sochi movement starting NOW. Because he said, no, it's absolutely not going to happen.

You don't get to censor the topic here when there is RELEVANT stuff being discussed just because it hits your hot buttons. I get it, your anti-activist POV dominates this tiny forum. But it does NOT make it right.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

(edited) ...

There is no honey coming to the gays of Russia as a reward for keeping quiet.

....

No ... they are already getting the "reward" for someone NOT keeping quiet when they should have done.

These things take time. Why is it perfectly acceptable (and defensible) for them to take time in one's own country, where it is "not a race", etc, but they have to be forced along in others?

[Jingthing]

(edited) ...

There is no honey coming to the gays of Russia as a reward for keeping quiet.

....

No ... they are already getting the "reward" for someone NOT keeping quiet when they should have done.

These things take time. Why is it perfectly acceptable (and defensible) for them to take time in one's own country, where it is "not a race", etc, but they have to be forced along in others?

Your position is well known about Russia. My reading: DO NOTHING. You want to redo the past. We're now in the now. What happens NOW. Yes it's mostly up to the Russians. I don't believe you have provided any evidence at all that the majority of them want to do nothing and the majority of them don't want the international attention, INCLUDING make some kind of protest show at Sochi.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

(edited) ....

I don't really have the funds to travel to Sochi for pleasure and frankly Winter Olympics are meh to me. But frankly if I was a gay man going to Sochi I would be ASHAMED to broadcast that not only am I going, I will not participate in any kind of protest, and I oppose all such protests. I could understand being afraid to protest because yes you could be arrested but that's different than OPPOSING all protest.

.....

People not protesting is not necessarily a question of "being afraid to protest because yes you could be arrested" but could be because some people have the intelligence to realise that protesting will be counter-productive and make things considerably worse for the Russian gays who still have to live in the country long after the foreign "gay heroes" have paid their fine and gone home slapping themselves on the back for a job well done.

[Jingthing]

Yes, there is a difference in personal consequences for Russians protesting and foreigners protesting. Like we didn't know that already? Oy!

BTW, foreigners can actually be locked up under these laws as well.

I feel outnumbered on this forum. It's time for me to take a break from making my case against the relentless anti-activists here. I know in my heart the majority of gay identified global people SUPPORT the Russian gays and SUPPORT some kinds of protest at Sochi. Its seems a waste of my time to further bother making this case to anti-activist gays who really do not represent the majority of world gay people.

Pro gay rights activists people have ENOUGH opponents in the homophobic world. If a portion of gay people are against gay activism. So be it. They're on the wrong side of history ... be assured.

Talk amongst yourselves about how great it is to ... DO NOTHING.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

That is correct. I am not going to Sochi and like I said, IF I was going I would be ashamed to admit that I am against any protests there and that it should only be about sport when the host country is acting to gays like Hitler was acting to Jews. Whether I was going or not doesn't change the validity of the OPINION expressed in that assertion.

Ummm .... maybe you could produce some sort of evidence that Russia IS "acting to gays like Hitler was acting to Jews".

I am not defending the Russian laws in any way, but this ridiculous and oft repeated comparison has NO basis in FACT and it is one which most Jews should find deeply offensive.

As far as I am aware Russia is not rounding up gays, putting them in ghettos, transporting them to concentration camps and killing them by the trainload. They have passed laws that ban gay propaganda, specifically to children - the equivalent to Hitler would be if he had banned Jews from teaching their children about Judaism and fined them $60 if they did. My grasp of history may be wrong, but I don't think that's what happened.

[LeCharivari]

(edited) ....

There are MANY countries with horrible anti-gay laws and cultures as bad as and worse than Russia, so it isn't really super fair to be especially open to gay Russians.

.....

Indeed there are ... so why has Russia been singled out for such vocal vilification at such a high level?

Or, as you put it before, "... why now...?"

The sad reality is that it probably has very little to do with "gay rights" or even gay politics, and is just another case of politicians (and left wing activists) using the "gay card" to bash a government whose politics they don't like.

I would give these politicians and "activists" a little more credibility if they had stuck to the gay rights issue, but they haven't and from the start it has been more about vilifying Putin and his government (why is it a "regime" in one country and an "administration" in another?) than it has about the actual issues.

After all, if its because Russia is part of Europe and so should be held to a higher standard - the argument justifying singling out Russia rather than other less "civilised" countries (and I quote) given by an American lesbian activist in a recent BBC debate - then all that's needed is for a case to be brought before the European Court of Human Rights that Russia has broken the European Convention on Human Rights. It hasn't, and the conventions are far more protective of anti-discrimination than the laws in some countries (such as the USA) leading this attack.

The laws are wrong - no question about that. At the same time there is no rational justification for this particular outcry.

[LeCharivari]

It's still early. Sochi is happening. I think any serious boycott of nations other than consumers needed Obama's leadership and he's not on board. The same with a host nation change. At this point there is a lot of talk and some trial balloons. There is no need at this point, especially as its clear Sochi is on to have all the specific plans in place. OF COURSE, this isn't only about what happens at Sochi. The much bigger issue is Russian policy in general but Sochi remains the best opportunity available right now for some kind of globalization of this issue, and mark my words, it won't be an opportunity that will be wasted, noises from the Milquetoast Brigades notwithstanding. Rest assured there are factions in Russia wanting protests of some kind at Sochi and there are also such international factions. It will be interesting to see how this all comes out in the wash, as by necessity this kind of thing is going to be rather messy without one clear authoritative leader. That's rough, considering Russia sure has that, in Putin. Realistically Putin is not going to push repeal of the anti-gay laws any time soon, they are indeed popular which is a sad commentary about homophobia in Russia, but that's the situation. So the way forward for gay Russians is going to be a long and hard one indeed.

. "The much bigger issue is Russian policy in general ...."

REALLY??

I thought the ISSUE was Russia's ANTI-GAY policy - after all, this is the GAY forum, not some forum for "general" discussion of Russian politics - or anyone else's.

[LeCharivari]

(edited)...

Also note, if the goal was to SHUT DOWN any comments or SUPPORT for protests in Russia by Russians and/or foreigners from people who don't plan on actually traveling to Russia, nice try, no cigar.

....

Ummm ... who suggested that?

As I read these posts, the main voice is supporting Russian gays with what THEY want.

I don't recall ANYONE saying that they shouldn't be given full and effective support by ANYONE, inside or outside Russia.

Maybe you could point out the grounds for your comment.

[LeCharivari]

(edited) ... We don't need to hear EVERY TIME someone voices support for gay activism that their opinion is worthless because they're not there themselves. We got it. This kind of personal dig has already been telegraphed more than once. I think ... ENOUGH.

I would never suggest that your opinion is worthless because you're not there.

No need to worry on that score ....

.

Edited August 12, 2013 by LeCharivari

[sustento]

(edited) ....

There are MANY countries with horrible anti-gay laws and cultures as bad as and worse than Russia, so it isn't really super fair to be especially open to gay Russians.

.....

Indeed there are ... so why has Russia been singled out for such vocal vilification at such a high level?

Or, as you put it before, "... why now...?"

The sad reality is that it probably has very little to do with "gay rights" or even gay politics, and is just another case of politicians (and left wing activists) using the "gay card" to bash a government whose politics they don't like.

I suspect it is. A 16 year old was murdered in Jamaica two days ago for being gay. Where's the outcry? Where's the tweets? Why aren't we being encouraged to boycott Jamaica? Why isn't Usain Bolt sent back home?

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-08-11/in-jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-by-mob

[LeCharivari]

(edited) ...

There is no honey coming to the gays of Russia as a reward for keeping quiet.

....

No ... they are already getting the "reward" for someone NOT keeping quiet when they should have done.

These things take time. Why is it perfectly acceptable (and defensible) for them to take time in one's own country, where it is "not a race", etc, but they have to be forced along in others?

Your position is well known about Russia. My reading: DO NOTHING. You want to redo the past. We're now in the now. What happens NOW. Yes it's mostly up to the Russians. I don't believe you have provided any evidence at all that the majority of them want to do nothing and the majority of them don't want the international attention, INCLUDING make some kind of protest show at Sochi.

As "well known" as my position on Chris Christie, my politics, etc?

I have never said "DO NOTHING". That may be what you want to read, but it is incorrect.

What I have said is RESPECT the views of those directly involved (a few million Russian gays) who have to live there not only "in the now" but in the future.

I have NEVER suggested "that the majority of them want to do nothing and the majority of them don't want the international attention" - what I have said is that the reason they are in the position they are now is because of the unwanted attention brought on them by one of their own and a few foreign gay activists who mis-read the situation and deliberately brought gay issues into the Russian political arena at the wrong time and that unless we are particularly careful we are in danger of repeating that mistake.

[LeCharivari]

(edited) ....

There are MANY countries with horrible anti-gay laws and cultures as bad as and worse than Russia, so it isn't really super fair to be especially open to gay Russians.

.....

Indeed there are ... so why has Russia been singled out for such vocal vilification at such a high level?

Or, as you put it before, "... why now...?"

The sad reality is that it probably has very little to do with "gay rights" or even gay politics, and is just another case of politicians (and left wing activists) using the "gay card" to bash a government whose politics they don't like.

I suspect it is. A 16 year old was murdered in Jamaica two days ago for being gay. Where's the outcry? Where's the tweets? Why aren't we being encouraged to boycott Jamaica? Why isn't Usain Bolt sent back home?

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-08-11/in-jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-by-mob

You mean in "The Most Homophobic Place on Earth"?

The country where sodomy can get you ten years imprisonment with hard labour?

Where just holding hands in public or private can get you two years with hard labour?

Where its two most prominent gay activists were murdered?

Where Human Rights Watch said, last year, that human rights activists should not go to promote gay rights because they would be in danger?

Where (keeping it on-topic) Russia's anti-gay laws, even if applied to the max, would be seen as unacceptably liberal and progressive?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1182991,00.html

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/07/18/jamaica-combat-homophobia

[LeCharivari]

...

BTW, foreigners can actually be locked up under these laws as well.

....

Actually they CAN'T, unless they are running a company promoting “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations among minors" on the internet or in the media.

Individuals can be fined between $60 and $150 and foreigners can be deported and denied re-entry.

If they are running a company doing so they can be fined between $3,000 and $30,000 if they are Russian and fined $3,000 and sentenced to 15 days imprisonment then deported if they are foreigners.

The law does NOT ban anyone from "being gay" or having gay sexual relations, OR taking part in Pride parades (although they are banned by several local laws) OR promoting LGBT equality.

NO-ONE has yet been tried under the laws, although one case is pending against a local gay activist.

"While most activists believe that the law will not be widely enforced, it effectively gives any local government carte blanche to ban gay pride events and will discourage people from discussing LGBT rights publicly and online. ...

While the legislation outraged Russian liberals and activists, a poll by the independent Levada Center in Russia found that 73 percent of respondents supported any government efforts to curb homosexual propaganda. Four out of five Russians say that they do not have a single LGBT acquaintance."

I am not defending these laws in any way - simply trying not to take a political view and to put them into perspective.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/2013/08/12/anti-gay-legislation-russia/9AG2F4H0MgJktsqUD8z45O/story.html

(A photo of the three gay activists shown in this article, taken a month ago, has appeared elsewhere with a suggestion that they have been beaten up by riot police - the original caption here shows that they are actually being protected by the police, who have linked arms around them)

[LeCharivari]

Another article which gives an interesting take on things:

From Hollywood to Broadway, the entertainment industry is using its star power and financial muscle to raise a storm of protest over the anti-gay legislation in Russia that is battering the image of the Winter Olympics in Sochi.

Actor-playwright Harvey Fierstein, British writer-actor Stephen Fry and Star Trek actor George Takei are among those who have publicly condemned the new law, fueling an uproar that is overshadowing preparations for the Feb. 7-23 Olympics.

....

These Hollywood types aren’t very self-aware, are they? Hundreds of millions of women, Christians, and gays are openly persecuted in Arab and other Muslim countries. Where’s this kind of outrage for them?

Fierstein — winner of Tony Awards for the play Torch Song Trilogy — wrote an op-ed piece in The New York Times last month saying Putin “has declared war on homosexuals” and calling on world leaders and the International Olympic Committee to demand the retraction of the laws under threat of a boycott.

“Mr. Putin’s campaign against lesbian, gay and bisexual people is one of distraction, a strategy of demonizing a minority for political gain straight from the Nazi playbook,” Fierstein wrote.

Fry, the British entertainer and activist, posted an open letter this week to Cameron and the IOC comparing Putin’s “barbaric, fascist law” to persecution of Jewish people in Nazi Germany.

The reason Hollywood leftists don’t protest against the cliterectomies, the lashings, the honor killings, and the executions is that in Arab countries, these are “cultural” issues. And given the cultural relativism to which most liberals subscribe, protesting Muslim treatment of gays, women, and Christians would be like saying that their culture is inferior — even savage and backwards.

But Russia is an easy target, ergo the “Nazi” references. The real problem for the Olympics is that the government may not enforce the law, but roving gangs of anti-gay Russians might take matters into their own hands and beat up anyone exhibiting openly gay behavior.

If the uproar continues, it may begin to affect TV sponsorships as companies pull their ads as a result of the controversy. Given the enormous amount of money that NBC has invested in carrying the games, it is in the network’s interest that the entire affair just go away.

Too bad the Olympics aren’t being held in a Muslim country.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/08/11/hollywood-protests-russian-anti-gay-laws-but-is-silent-about-persecution-in-muslim-countries/?singlepage=true

[Jingthing]

Shared sans comment, from the leading news show in Russia:

[LeCharivari]

NOBODY ... anywhere .. is suggesting Berlin 1936 and Sochi are exactly alike. So by pointing out differences, you're focusing on an irrelevancy. Of course, many people watch the winter Olympics, I'd say quite a few more than watched Berlin 1936 summer Olympics on television ... and the INTERNET ...

The relevant part of looking about the comparison between Berlin and Sochi is the morality aspect (Jews then, gays now) which includes a POLITICAL aspect which I realize some of you think politics is a dirty word but to that I would say GROW UP. Berlin, no boycotts, no visible protests, and Jewish athletes were treated badly. Now at Sochi, for all those same things to happen I don't think is morally DEFENSIBLE and neither do many important voices in the world today. I already hear you saying, oh the gay athletes will be able to compete at Sochi ... OK ... VISIBLY as gay people in the same way a Jew in Berlin would have been visible without breaking Russian law? And the PRIDE SPACE for athletes, this time ... not allowed because of anti-gay laws. So already the deal involves some crappy treatment of gay athletes and the games haven't even STARTED.

As far as Russians not seeing any visible protest at Sochi, which I predict there will be whether the Milquetoast Brigades of the world approve or not, OF COURSE they will see them. They've got the internet.

The west can't influence Putin AT ALL?

Maybe. Maybe not. Russia is not an island. They've got the internet. Doing NOTHING will definitely do NOTHING.

OK, I'll say it if you can already hear me ... "... oh the gay athletes will be able to compete at Sochi ... OK ... VISIBLY as gay people in the same way a Jew in Berlin would have been visible without breaking Russian law." They CAN compete VISIBLY as gay people without breaking any Russian law. EXACTLY WHAT PART OF WHICH LAW DO YOU THINK THEY WILL BE BREAKING? And just how would we be able to identify an athlete as gay? From the way they run/swim/ice dance or dive?

[LeCharivari]

Picketing Soviet Embassies and Consulates would seem to provide visible "international support" without risking exacerbating the situation as Russian gays could hardly be held responsible, and there would also be no risk of violence to them or anyone else from any anti-gay Russian neo-Nazi extremists.

The Russian Embassy in Bangkok may not have as high a profile as those in Washington, London or Brussels but the Russian Consulate in Pattaya would seem an excellent place to start: a very large Russian tourist and resident expat population with a large Russian gay community. An ideal place for an experienced and motivated gay activist to not only protest himself but to drum up support from Russian gays who could protest anonymously without risking arrest for breaking Russian laws.

Located in the Royal Cliff Hotel, within easy walking distance of Dongtan beach, there could hardly be a better location. Free wi-fi too, to ensure the message gets out on the internet ....

Great oaks from little acorns grow, etc ....

[LeCharivari]

Shared sans comment, from the leading news show in Russia:

Pity about the lack of comment - a translation would help, but as far as I am aware he said "I think that just imposing fines on gays for homosexual propaganda among teenagers is not enough. they should be banned from donating blood, sperm. And their hearts, in case of the automobile accident, should be buried in the ground or burned as unsuitable for the continuation of life"

Unpleasant though that may be, it sounds very much like the view of the Red Cross in many countries rather than an incitement to violence.

Putting it in context (which to be fair the original poster on You Tube did not do, although it is obvious) would also have helped - it is actually from a televised debate about the laws in which he is one of the speakers for one side. That the "leading news show in Russia" is not only allowing but encouraging such a debate strikes me as a GOOD thing.

[Jingthing]

Shared sans comment:

These new anti-gay laws are disturbingly similar to the anti-Semitic Nuremberg laws Hitler passed before the 1936 Olympics. And with the Pew Institute finding 84% of Russians believe society should reject gay people, perhaps some saying they object to gays for fear of arrest, the world should question how far Russia intends to go.

We should question how far Russia, our lukewarm ally, intends to go and what our participation in the 2014 Olympic Games will look like generations from now.

http://americablog.com/2013/08/holocaust-russia-gay-sochi-olympics.html

[Scott]

This topic has just appeared in the World News feed. It is about Moscow's plan to enforce it's anti-gay propaganda laws:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/660378-russia-will-enforce-anti-gay-propaganda-law-at-sochi-olympics-govt-says/#entry6711154

[ToddWeston]

Picketing Soviet Embassies and Consulates would seem to provide visible "international support" without risking exacerbating the situation as Russian gays could hardly be held responsible, and there would also be no risk of violence to them or anyone else from any anti-gay Russian neo-Nazi extremists.

The Russian Embassy in Bangkok may not have as high a profile as those in Washington, London or Brussels but the Russian Consulate in Pattaya would seem an excellent place to start: a very large Russian tourist and resident expat population with a large Russian gay community. An ideal place for an experienced and motivated gay activist to not only protest himself but to drum up support from Russian gays who could protest anonymously without risking arrest for breaking Russian laws.

Located in the Royal Cliff Hotel, within easy walking distance of Dongtan beach, there could hardly be a better location. Free wi-fi too, to ensure the message gets out on the internet ....

Great oaks from little acorns grow, etc ....

Good idea especially in Pattaya- surely after they've seen the splendours of Patts that must have some affect in their mindset ?

I found this interesting these are the limited countries that allow visa free or visa on arrival for Russian nationals, I didn't realise they were so limited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Russian_citizens

[LeCharivari]

You've probably missed the massive numbers of Russians in Pattaya in the last few years - it really is a peculiarly appropriate location, TW.

[onthemoon]

We had different reasons for attending them ,OTM!

That may well be true.

But this topic is going into a direction that I don't want to follow, so I am out of here.

[ToddWeston]

You've probably missed the massive numbers of Russians in Pattaya in the last few years - it really is a peculiarly appropriate location, TW.

I've been learning quickly - there seem to be a lot of Russian visitors in Pattaya, I haven't been there in more than 10 years but if it's a hot spot sounds like a good place to start. Cuba is our (Canada) playground and the 20+ times I been there are loads of Russians- however I don't think that's the place to start an education.