Installing water pump

[GavinK]

Couple of questions. Is it just a matter of connecting the pvc for water in from the tank and water out, plugging it in, and go, or is there more to it ? I once saw someone use an airblower sort of thing to fix a pump that was cycling too quickly and wondered if such a thing had to be used at set-up.

Second question - where should you fit 1 way valves in the piping ? eg. to stop potential back flow to the incoming line from the meter, or to stop back flow to the pump ? The diagrams that come with the pump only show taps at various points, but no back flow controls so perhaps not needed ?

Thanks.

[kamalabob2]

An Independent "Water Pump Specialist" who have staff that install water pumps, pressure tanks and water tanks 7 days a week are worth your time to visit. The same staff that install and maintain hospital water pumps, water tanks, pressure tanks can quickly do your home water pump. Every province has a water pump shop that the Thai business owners rely on for business water supply and their own residence water supply. The kind of shop that is authorized to fix the major brands of water pumps at their shop. The shop in your province that will bring a free loaner water pump to your house if the pump you buy from them, and have their staff install for LESS money than a chain store, ever has a problem that can't be fixed at your location. The high volume independent water pump shops can offer you a lower price for the equipment, lower price for installation, and you can have direct communication with the owner in English. Those shops solve the two issues you mention, each and every day. An inexpensive item that you might consider for your water tank is a Radar Brand or Square D brand LIQUID LEVEL CONTROLLER. But ANY great water pump shop will sit down with you and give you a written water plan, once they see what current water supply you have. A sharp water pump shop will recommend to you to not settle for a 15mm "government water meter", when you can easily upgrade to a 20mm water meter so you an have at least 3/4 inch water supply to your water tank. Bigger is better in terms of water pipe size for most applications. The owners of a sports stadium are going to be critical customers, and will not accept anything less than a perfect in terms of lawn mowers, water pumps, water filters, water tanks, pressure tanks. You can do business with the same sort of water pump specialists in your province.

[wayned]

Go to this thread. There is a discussion regarding WP installation anda good diagram:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647353-water-shortages-tank-and-pump-system-costs/

Kamalabob 2: Are you sure that you live in rural Thailand. I do and the services that you describe do not exist here. DIY is the best wat isf you have any common sense.

[Crossy]

It's not rocket science to set up one of the all-in-one pumps. It should already have the necessary one-way valve to stop losing pressure back to the tank.

Hook it up something like this:

The non-return valve gives you city water pressure when the pump is off for maintenance or you have no power.

[GavinK]

Crossy, in your diagram, is Pump Valve 2 always open when in use, meaning that if the electric cuts off and the city water flows towards the pump, there is no probelm (eg pump damage), or should it be in the closed position whenever using city water ? Thanks.

[Crossy]

Normal operation leave all the valves open.

If the power is off, once the pressure reserve is depleted, city water flows through the non-return valve and supplies the house. There is a non-return valve built in to the pump inlet that stops back flow through the pump.

Close the two pump valves if you need to remove the pump for service.

[kamalabob2]

I live in rural Thailand. The exact same plumbers who installed and maintain our water filters, pressure tank, water storage tanks water pumps and now maintain our swimming pool pumps all work for a typical high volume "pump shop". Yesterday some of the staff of that "pump shop" were maintaining one of the MANY water pumps and pressure tanks at the large Government Hospital complex in Buriram. The same two guys who last changed out my carbon and magnesium filters worked last week at a sports stadium quite often in the news. Maybe not every province has a sports stadium, but they all have Government Hospitals and Village Water systems. It is not random dudes who install and maintain those important water systems. Every province has high volume Mitsubishi Water pump dealers as that is the #1 brand for most village water supplies. One day I spotted a very fancy water filter in the back of the pick up truck of our "plumbers". My wife asked the repair team who had such a device, and they mentioned the name of the sports team owner and how they were on the way to his residence to install that water filter tank. It's not Home Works or HomePro staff working at the homes of the powerful local business people or on Government Hospital Water systems, it is always some "pump shop".

[PEP]

GavinK

I am with Wayned on this and Crossy also. Here in the wilds of Issan so called "water pump experts" are the usual 'Rice-Farmer' gentleman or some salesman from "the-shop-that-sells-pumps". I have seen these local Experts working on domestic and commercial installations. As stated it is not Rocket Science. Use Crossy's diagram and you will be 100% OK.

Regards from PEP

[skeedary]

1) If you want to use a water pressure booster pump it is a requirement to first install a water holding tank . You then can install a pressure pump to the holding tank for your needs.

2) A pressure pump system comes complete with a small bladder tank to allow for automatic operation via a pressure switch. Normally the pump system has a built-in check valve to stop pressure return to the water holding tank.

Any other questions you have just ask as I have a pumping business background.

Gary

[BuriramRes]

For town water which has enough pressure to feed to a tank, install a 2,000 ltr tank at ground level with a normal toilet cystern cut off valve to stop the taank overfilling. Connect the pump to the tank as a low-pressure connection. If you have a two-storey house, connect a non-return valve in the outward feed to stop backflow to your pump.

Before you turn on the pump for the first time, prime the pump. There should be a plug on the top of your pump for this purpose.

Also be sure to connect an earth wire from your pump to a spike in the ground.

Anything else is common sense.

The small water tank prevents your pump from pumping dry if your town water is not working. Normally a 2,000 ltr tank will give you a 2-3 day buffer against town water stoppage.

[jackflash]

The water tank also prevents the pump sucking the incoming mains dry and creating a negative pressure.

If this happens you will draw in foul water from outside the mains (including sewerage) via a myriad of leaks in the street.

Never connect a pump direct to the mains.

Edited July 4, 2013 by jackflash

[GavinK]

Before you turn on the pump for the first time, prime the pump. There should be a plug on the top of your pump for this purpose.

Could you explain a little more on what I need to do here. For example, do I losen the plug until water appears then close it ?

Thanks.

[BuriramRes]

Before you turn on the pump for the first time, prime the pump. There should be a plug on the top of your pump for this purpose.

Could you explain a little more on what I need to do here. For example, do I losen the plug until water appears then close it ?

Thanks.

Yes, that should do it. If not, screw the plug completely off and fill the pump with water using a jug or something similar, then rescrew the plug securely to form an airtight connection.

When you turn the pump on, just listen to it. You will easily tell if it is sucking air. If so, turn the pump off again & make sure you do not have an air pocket in your input line. A minute or two sucking air fill not ruin your pump but it is not advisable to leave it too long.

If you are using a tank you will find that the pump will prime itself when you loosen the plug & you will have water running out of the plug hole. When this happens, the pump is primed.

Also, if you find the pump is cycling when nobody is using the water it will mean that you have pressure loss in your outward feed (ie probably a water leak or a leaking tap).

I have two pumps, one for town water & the other for rain water which I collect from my roof. (I drink the rain water, my wife still prefers to buy the water that the local monastry sells - god knows where that comes from - probably the local water supply)

Edited July 4, 2013 by BuriramRes

[Mudcrab]

An enhancement to the standard pressure switch control (which drives me nuts after a while on/off...on/off at low flow rates) is to spend a little more on a device which starts on pressure (drop) BUT stops on loss of flow. This means you can turn a tap down low, say in the shower, without the pump cycling. I bought one from Oz for our place in Issan.... then later went to Global House and there they were on the shelf at a quarter of the price. Interestingly the sales staff did not have a clue about them or their purpose.

The model I have has a small relay which switches the actual motor current so is cheap to replace when it eventually burns out....though this should be many years. Some pressure switches can burn out in a matter of months depending on how the pump cycles.

[Artisi]

Using Crossy's diagram, the by-pass line from the town supply to the delivery side of the pump unit (with NRV) is only of use if the town supply has sufficient pressure to be useful should you have a power failure or pump problem. In the case of having very low pressure from the town supply (as I do), you are better off not using this arrangement as it only introduces another maintenance problem (the NRV), if this valve leaks, you end pumping water back into the town main and the pump will cycle or run continuously.

In the case of low mains pressure don't install a by-pass line.

[Artisi]

An enhancement to the standard pressure switch control (which drives me nuts after a while on/off...on/off at low flow rates) is to spend a little more on a device which starts on pressure (drop) BUT stops on loss of flow. This means you can turn a tap down low, say in the shower, without the pump cycling. I bought one from Oz for our place in Issan.... then later went to Global House and there they were on the shelf at a quarter of the price. Interestingly the sales staff did not have a clue about them or their purpose.

The model I have has a small relay which switches the actual motor current so is cheap to replace when it eventually burns out....though this should be many years. Some pressure switches can burn out in a matter of months depending on how the pump cycles.

The way to go, if and when my pressure switch on my Grundfos pump fails, the constant pressure switch unit sold by Global house will on and running within a few hours. I will maintain the bladder tank which will allow the usual bleed-off of a few litres before the unit switches on due to the drop in pressure.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Artisi

[toklaw]

The water tank also prevents the pump sucking the incoming mains dry and creating a negative pressure.

If this happens you will draw in foul water from outside the mains (including sewerage) via a myriad of leaks in the street.

Never connect a pump direct to the mains.

In the sixties and seventies it was illegal to connect directly to the mains and the police in Korat, Ubon and NKP did occasional checks.

Since my return in 2002, I have noted about 50 houses connected directly to the mains and have had two Thai Engineers tell me that my connection to a storage tank was illogical and would only cause problems. (I gave up arguing with Thai's years ago)

I just smile and do as I think fit and have never had my house water contaminated by the neighbor leaving a hose in a pond with the valve left open. I use the system as described in the posted sketch.

[GavinK]

Using Crossy's diagram, the by-pass line from the town supply to the delivery side of the pump unit (with NRV) is only of use if the town supply has sufficient pressure to be useful should you have a power failure or pump problem. In the case of having very low pressure from the town supply (as I do), you are better off not using this arrangement as it only introduces another maintenance problem (the NRV), if this valve leaks, you end pumping water back into the town main and the pump will cycle or run continuously.

Fair point. Water pressure is high enough to not need pump on 24/7 . I plan to put a tap after the NRV which would be closed when pump is in use, with the NRV being a backup when someone forgets close the tap !

[EBF]

It's not rocket science to set up one of the all-in-one pumps. It should already have the necessary one-way valve to stop losing pressure back to the tank.

Hook it up something like this:

pump setup.jpg

The non-return valve gives you city water pressure when the pump is off for maintenance or you have no power.

Hi Crossy,

Just one question with your diagram.

It appears with your setup, you'd have a constant flow from the meter to the house. Does this mean the pump will kick in conjunction with the mains supply - i.e you will be drawing tank and mains simultaneously?

[Crossy]

No. Our mains pressure is so appalling that the pump pressure is always higher and no water flows from the mains.

Only when the pump is off does the non-return valve allow mains pressure to trickle through and provide water to the downstairs taps and toilet, not enough pressure to make it upstairs.

[wayned]

My system is installed per Crossy's diagram with one change. I replaced the NRV with and on/off valve. I had replaced the NRV numerous times as it stuck in the open position due to the high mineral content in the local supply. This caused the pump to continuosly cycle on and off as it was trying to pressurize the entire villege since the valve was open. II replaced it with an on/off valve wich remains off in normal operation. If the electric power goes off, I turn off the pump and close the output valve and open the valve that replaced the NRV so we get a "dribble" of water in the house. The village supply pressure is very low.

[Artisi]

1)  If you want to use a water pressure booster pump it is a requirement to first install a water holding tank . You then can install a pressure pump to the holding tank for your needs.

 

2)  A pressure pump system comes complete with a small bladder tank to allow for automatic operation via a pressure switch.  Normally the pump system has a built-in check valve to stop pressure return to the water holding tank.

 

Any other questions you have just ask as I have a pumping business background.

 

Gary

Likewise over 35 years in the pump industry although not on such small pumps, but pump hydraulics and pump installations don't vary that much between 1hp and a couple of thousand - only the magnitude of the failures and disasters.

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