Helping victims of accidents.

[Espen]

I drove past an accident today coming home from Korat. There was an unconscious motorcyclist laying on his back with his helmet on in the left lane of the two lane highway with a crushed motorcycle next to him and blood was coming out of his mouth. There were lots of people standing around and lots of cars parked on the shoulder, including a police car, but nobody was near the victim. I assume nobody was helping him because he didn`t have a pulse and wasn`t breathing and therefore thought it was too late.

But just two weeks ago I was on a repetition safety course for seamen in my home country where, among other things, we had a lot of first aid education. We learned if a person is unconscious but breathing, the minimum help you give is to make sure they don`t have problems breathing by keeping the airways clear.

If a person is unconscious, has a pulse but not breathing. You give mouth to mouth.

If a person is unconscious and has no pulse, you give him CPR until medical personnel arrive. Then he has a small chance of surviving.

Now I feel bad because maybe I could have done something to help. But there was so much traffic and my wife told me not to stop, because, quote: "In Thailand you can not touch the victim of a accident because you will sued for medical expenses." Unquote. So I didn`t stop. I have lived here for 8 years and seen a lot of things that has surprised me, so this might be true for all I know.

So I wanted to make a new topic here and ask you guys if any of you have had any experience with this.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Espen

[hansnl]

It may sound very harsh, but please, for your owngood, don't even think about helping.

Good chance you will be blamed for the death of the person.

Some time ago, in Khon Kaen, a woman was hit by a car.

The car drove on, of course.

A policeman, maybe 20 meter away from the woman, was busy ticketing wrongly parked cars.

He looked at the woman, turned around, and continued ticketing.

Because the woman was in the middle of the road, traffic stopped.

The policeman continued his ticketing.

Lot of bystanders looking at the poor woman, whose leg was obviously broken, while she also seemed to be unconscious.

But nobody helped......

Took nearly an hour before some kind of ambulance arrived, the woman was loaded in the back, and was probably brought to a hospital.

The policeman?

He was still sticketing.

Edited July 5, 2013 by hansnl

[Espen]

It may sound very harsh, but please, for your owngood, don't even think about helping.

Good chance you will be blamed for the death of the person.

Some time ago, in Khon Kaen, a woman was hit by a car.

The car drove on, of course.

A policeman, maybe 20 meter away from the woman, was busy ticketing wrongly parked cars.

He looked at the woman, turned around, and continued ticketing.

Because the woman was in the middle of the road, traffic stopped.

The policeman continued his ticketing.

Lot of bystanders looking at the poor woman, whose leg was obviously broken, while she also seemed to be unconscious.

But nobody helped......

Took nearly an hour before some kind of ambulance arrived, the woman was loaded in the back, and was probably brought to a hospital.

The policeman?

He was still sticketing.

Wow, that is so sad.

But I`d like to know if anyone knows someone who has actually been blamed for helping an injured person.

I`m really having a hard time believing it. But who knows?

The police car I saw today just stopped there when I arrived. An officer exited his car, walked over to the victim, looked quickly at his face and walked on to talk with the bystanders. He didn`t check for a pulse or anything.

[kiniyow]

A Thai Lawyer told me to Not touch them--Don't help them--Don't move them and to wait until an Ambulance arrives to handle them...If you try to assist then you can be held accountable...

[richard_smith237]

I've stopped and helped before... No blame... no issues... the ambulance came and I simply got back in my friends car and we headed off home.

It was about 2am, the guy was clearly drunk, weaving his motorcycle around and hit the post in the central divide.

I stopped and made sure no one moved him, he was bleeding but not too much, but the back of his head was de-scalped, I made sure I didn't get his blood on me, he had a pulse and was breathing. I asked the 5 or 6 other onlookers to use their mobile phones (lights) to alert traffic so that no other drunk drivers drove into us.

[Suradit69]

A Thai Lawyer told me to Not touch them--Don't help them--Don't move them and to wait until an Ambulance arrives to handle them...If you try to assist then you can be held accountable...

One of the reasons you may create a legal problem for yourself is because there's a high probability that you will make things worse unless you have some medical, or at least first aid, training. I doubt that most policeman here have much training in this area and it's possible they've been told not to play doctor. If you do something and the victim dies or is paralyzed or whatever, you may then have to wonder if your intervention made things worse whether or not you face legal consequences.

[Espen]

A Thai Lawyer told me to Not touch them--Don't help them--Don't move them and to wait until an Ambulance arrives to handle them...If you try to assist then you can be held accountable...

Since a lawyer said that I have to believe my wife a bit more. It is true that you should never move a victim of an accident, unless the victim is in immediate danger of traffic or a burning car, for example. Or if the victim doesn`t have a pulse. Then you should move the victim on their back and start CPR immediately. But if there is a chance you might be held accountable I understand why bystanders are so scared to help.

[khwaibah]

Beware Thailand does not have a good samaritan law..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

[uptheos]

A Thai Lawyer told me to Not touch them--Don't help them--Don't move them and to wait until an Ambulance arrives to handle them...If you try to assist then you can be held accountable...

Does he think this would apply to foreigners too, who would not hold them accountable if genuinely trying to help?

Edited July 6, 2013 by uptheos

[Espen]

A Thai Lawyer told me to Not touch them--Don't help them--Don't move them and to wait until an Ambulance arrives to handle them...If you try to assist then you can be held accountable...

One of the reasons you may create a legal problem for yourself is because there's a high probability that you will make things worse unless you have some medical, or at least first aid, training. I doubt that most policeman here have much training in this area and it's possible they've been told not to play doctor. If you do something and the victim dies or is paralyzed or whatever, you may then have to wonder if your intervention made things worse whether or not you face legal consequences.

Your post makes sense. If the police doesn`t have any first aid training they shouldn`t play doctor either. If are not trained in CPR for example you can definitely make things worse if you try it on a person with broken ribs for example. You may end up pushing a bone fragment into the heart or lungs.

But if you are trained in CPR and the victim has no pulse, you should do it regardless of other injuries. Airways and circulation takes priority over any other injuries, also broken bones should not puncture heart, lungs or other organs if you do it correctly.

Nevertheless, if there is a danger of being held accountable it may keep a trained person away from the victim as well.

[Espen]

A Thai Lawyer told me to Not touch them--Don't help them--Don't move them and to wait until an Ambulance arrives to handle them...If you try to assist then you can be held accountable...

Does he think this would apply to foreigners too, who would not hold them accountable if genuinely trying to help?

I found a story of someone who had some problems after helping someone in India. It sounds like something that could have happened here in Thailand as well. It wasn`t the victims who held him accountable, it was the police.

http://www.bribebook.com/got-punishment-for-helping-accident-victim/

But you post made me thinking. What if it was me laying there and couldn`t breathe, for example because of a swallowed tounge, which could be easily sorted. And nobody comes to help because they may be held accountable...... a nightmare.

[bunnydrops]

Plus there is a chance 10 people will say you went though his pockets. !5 seconds here and there is a whole new reality written.

[Espen]

Plus there is a chance 10 people will say you went though his pockets. !5 seconds here and there is a whole new reality written.

I choose not to believe that, but I`d like to know if you have any experience with that happening?

[bunnydrops]

Plus there is a chance 10 people will say you went though his pockets. !5 seconds here and there is a whole new reality written.

I choose not to believe that, but I`d like to know if you have any experience with that happening?

I live is a small village. Every time something happens here, big or small, the story changes as it moves from person to person. Not long ago a woman who went into the other lane and killed a boy on a bike got off because witnesses saw a ghost step out in front of her. People seen stealing when it turns out they were not even in town. Don't get me wrong, I like the people here but they do see what they want to see and believe what they want to hear.

[bunnydrops]

I also just want to say that if I saw the accident, I would have to stop, but I think if the police is already there and I am not certified in Thailand to give assistance, I would not.

[Espen]

I also just want to say that if I saw the accident, I would have to stop, but I think if the police is already there and I am not certified in Thailand to give assistance, I would not.

I can relate. If I saw an accident and nobody was there, I would also have to stop to help. No matter the possible consequences.

[JLCrab]

My 50 satang: The best thing you can do is (assuming we're talking near your home) always have the nearest police office phone number on your mobile phone. If you are first on the scene of the accident call the police and, if you cannot describe the situation and location in Thai, hand the phone to the first Thai person on the scene.

In that you will have greatly helped.

[Mrjlh]

You people are so full of BS...go home! Total bunk! I've assisted at several accidents and NEVER, and I mean NEVER, had a problem or an issue in 6 years living in several areas of Thailand. One family even wanted to pay me. It's bad enough we have too many pathetic "I don't want to get evolved" types in this world as it is. Only requirement is "YOU BETTER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!" If you don't then don't touch anyone. BUT you could do something. Call the police, direct traffic, comfort loved ones. If you are so worried about being accused of wrong doing have some one film you as you render aid. Then you have proof if it comes to that. You have the skill and the training do something...even be a translator if you know both Thai and the foreigners language. I've done that too. What if it was YOU laying on the ground bleeding to death?

[JLCrab]

I once came upon a bizarre accident -- an overhead wire had snapped in a heavy wind and wrapped around a young girl on a motorcycle throwing her to the ground. I stopped but at the same time also did several Thai persons who assisted her so I moved on.

I note the above that you better know what you are doing. I have had US Red Cross First Aid training but I would hardly equate that to someone with medical or EMT training so at least for me I would NOT claim to know what I was doing.

[Espen]

You people are so full of BS...go home! Total bunk! I've assisted at several accidents and NEVER, and I mean NEVER, had a problem or an issue in 6 years living in several areas of Thailand. One family even wanted to pay me. It's bad enough we have too many pathetic "I don't want to get evolved" types in this world as it is. Only requirement is "YOU BETTER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!" If you don't then don't touch anyone. BUT you could do something. Call the police, direct traffic, comfort loved ones. If you are so worried about being accused of wrong doing have some one film you as you render aid. Then you have proof if it comes to that. You have the skill and the training do something...even be a translator if you know both Thai and the foreigners language. I've done that too. What if it was YOU laying on the ground bleeding to death?

Thank you for your calm and helping post.

I have had a suspicion all along that getting in trouble for helping might be a "myth." I opened this topic hoping that people would share their experiences and maybe debunk this myth.

It seems to me from the previous posts that those who has experience with helping has never had any problems after.

[CTO]

I've assisted at a number of accidents, often to stop well meaning Thai's not to cause more injury to the victims,

Never been sued, sue me if you want to but that isn't ever going to stop me helping people.

PS I've never seen a cop ticketing a car, they may shackle the wheels, but ticketing is a pretty much Western thing.

I have seen some guys like parking "gods" do it once, just before the cops arrived to shackle the cars, busy metro Bangkok.

[JLCrab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ts0XG6qDIco#t=0s

-- and I do have the number of the local police on my mobile phone.

Edited July 6, 2013 by JLCrab

[CTO]

Plus there is a chance 10 people will say you went though his pockets. !5 seconds here and there is a whole new reality written.

I choose not to believe that, but I`d like to know if you have any experience with that happening?

In Australia:-

A high school friend was in a car driven by a drunk boyfriend, went down the side of the road near Rocky in a bad accident, the accident wasn't reported for 8 hours, so no ambulance for that time, YET someone had found the accident, gone and removed everyone's wallets, purse, necklace etc,

Can't remember why but police had a good reason that happened hours before the ambulance came,

She's never been out of a wheel chair in the 30 years since the accident, and even sadder had been told "IF" she had been found earlier, she would have had a better chance of success from the spinal surgery.

Edited July 6, 2013 by CTO

[Espen]

Plus there is a chance 10 people will say you went though his pockets. !5 seconds here and there is a whole new reality written.

I choose not to believe that, but I`d like to know if you have any experience with that happening?

In Australia:-

A high school friend was in a car driven by a drunk boyfriend, went down the side of the road near Rocky in a bad accident, the accident wasn't reported for 8 hours, so no ambulance for that time, YET someone had found the accident, gone and removed everyone's wallets, purse, necklace etc,

Can't remember why but police had a good reason that happened hours before the ambulance came,

She's never been out of a wheel chair in the 30 years since the accident, and even sadder had been told "IF" she had been found earlier, she would have had a better chance of success from the spinal surgery.

Wow, that is so sad. Shocking really.

Time is always the essence when dealing with an accident where people are injured. Those thieves will come back as toilet brushes in their next lives.

I will take this as another reason to why people should stop to help when they can.

[manxninja]

If I seen a seriously injured person thai or farang they would get my help.

I would not walk away and would deal with the consequences.

What's the world coming to when fellow humans won't help a dying person.

f they want to sue me good luck I have deep pockets.

[Espen]

If I seen a seriously injured person thai or farang they would get my help.

I would not walk away and would deal with the consequences.

What's the world coming to when fellow humans won't help a dying person.

f they want to sue me good luck I have deep pockets.

Thank you for your contribution.

But I still haven`t heard from anyone who has actually gotten in trouble for helping.

[sirchai]

Can't believe so may posters' attitudes. I've helped many accident victims in my 11 years living in Thailand.

Would those people help a foreigner having an accident and being unconscious? I doubt it....

I'm very proud that my son is doing the same. He saw an accident two days ago, where a M.1 student on a bicycle got hid by a car.Of course the driver took off. My son could remember the number of the licence plate and they found the driver.

He used a technique he had learnt from his boy scout bs at school, got him on a motorbike with a broken arm and a broken leg, drove him to the hospital.

Then he topped it by telling them at the emergency room to give him some morphine. When they're asking him if he knew what morphine is, he said yes he does and that this is the best way to take him the pain.

Then they injected him 3 mg morphine and the pain was gone for many hours.

It turned out that my 14 year old son helped a school director's son, who then showed up and "Waied" him as a little king. But my son told him that this was just common sense to do so.

.Anybody from this forum could be the next victim while bystanders discuss how to make papaya salad. I' ll always try to help others.-

.

Edited July 7, 2013 by sirchai

[nontabury]

Plus there is a chance 10 people will say you went though his pockets. !5 seconds here and there is a whole new reality written.

I choose not to believe that, but I`d like to know if you have any experience with that happening?

I live is a small village. Every time something happens here, big or small, the story changes as it moves from person to person. Not long ago a woman who went into the other lane and killed a boy on a bike got off because witnesses saw a ghost step out in front of her. People seen stealing when it turns out they were not even in town.

Don't get me wrong, I like the people here but they do see what they want to see and believe what they want to hear.

Same as many farangs.

[Norlund]

If I seen a seriously injured person thai or farang they would get my help.

I would not walk away and would deal with the consequences.

What's the world coming to when fellow humans won't help a dying person.

f they want to sue me good luck I have deep pockets.

Thank you for your contribution.

But I still haven`t heard from anyone who has actually gotten in trouble for helping.

I*ve never gotten in to trouble because my right foot has stepped hard on the accelerator every time I've seen that there has been an accident. It's harsh, but that's life in Thailand.

[richard_smith237]

If I seen a seriously injured person thai or farang they would get my help.

I would not walk away and would deal with the consequences.

What's the world coming to when fellow humans won't help a dying person.

f they want to sue me good luck I have deep pockets.

Thank you for your contribution.

But I still haven`t heard from anyone who has actually gotten in trouble for helping.

I*ve never gotten in to trouble because my right foot has stepped hard on the accelerator every time I've seen that there has been an accident. It's harsh, but that's life in Thailand.

It's hard but thats life in Thailand???

No.. you should have written.. "It's harsh, but what difference does one more careless person in the world make?"

You just need to hope that when you are in need someone stops to help you.