Thai Buddhist swastika. Why the confusion?

[dogsdinner]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

You could be wrong...how do you know for certain, was he your next door neighbour or something ?.....you would have been better stating..it is believed...you are stating some thing as fact which it may or may not be....

Did Jesus come from Nazereth ?...was he born in Bethlehem ? are these facts ?

Boy this topic has gone off. I love it when the Professors on TV start asserting themselves. Clearly there is a difference between it and a propaganda flag. It is the swastika symbol itself that is the topic in question. Rightly or wrongly I posted it after a discussion I'd had. Some of the replies have been informative and corrective. Thanks for lightening the situation. I once had a neighbour called Brian. Nice bloke but his mother kept suggesting he was a very naughty boy. I was also once a member of the Peoples Front of Judiah or was it the Judians Peoples Front? Sometimes I too loose A thong but I've never been mimicked or followed for it. It had more to do with being pissed.

Edited July 11, 2013 by dogsdinner

[simple1]

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

A few years ago i had a discussion with five Thai woman in my home country friends of my ex about buddhism ,after asking them where buddhism originates from they all said Thailand and when i told them India they looked at me like i was an alien or something.

So its not only farang who are confused about buddhism.

Theravada Buddhism as practiced in Thailand actually originates from Sri Lanka and adopted as the state religion in Thailand around 1300 AD

Yes al very nice ,but the discussion was about where it originates from.

Buddhism has many different forms......

Sorry, mis-read your post

[KarenBravo]

Theravada Buddhism as practiced in Thailand actually originates from Sri Lanka and adopted as the state religion in Thailand around 1300 AD

Yes al very nice ,but the discussion was about where it originates from.

Buddhism has many different forms......

Sorry, mis-read your post

Doesn't surprise me. Karma (Kamma) in action? (yet another joke).

[simple1]

Theravada Buddhism as practiced in Thailand actually originates from Sri Lanka and adopted as the state religion in Thailand around 1300 AD

Yes al very nice ,but the discussion was about where it originates from.

Buddhism has many different forms......

Sorry, mis-read your post

Doesn't surprise me. Karma (Kamma) in action? (yet another joke).

Not me, different poster

[dogsdinner]

Just to clear things up. I personally have never seen a swastika propaganda flag in Thailand in the 12 years of coming here. I have never seen it either whilst living here now. The difference in its propaganda usage is completely obvious. The topic was the swastika. This pic is exactly the same as the one someone I personally know uses who practices Buddhism. Yes its origins I know are not from Thailand but that wasn't the topic. I appologise for thinking it always faced the other direction also and a thank you for those members who have been informative on the swastikas origins, different orientations and applications. It could have been an interesting topic but as usual the Professors on TVF can't sometimes help themselves from becoming over assertive. Cheers

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6416/159877177.1ec/0_a8fba_1b325dec_XL.jpg

Edited July 11, 2013 by dogsdinner

[Naam]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Hindi is a language.

Hindu is the religion.

Hindi is also used as an attribute when speaking Hindi, Punjabi, Hindustani or Urdu. therefore the word combination "Hindi symbol" is correct.

but as we are already hairsplitting... let the record show that "Hindu" is not a religion

Rubbish.

Punjabi and Urdu are completely different languages than Hindi, though, they are a Hindustani languages. Hindustani means from sub-continent.

Hindu is a religion.

The Swastika is originally from Sanskrit.

-Hindustani is, besides English, the lingua franca in India. it's a mixture of the related languages Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi.

-"Hindustani" languages do not exist.

-Hinduism (not Hindu) is a religion.

-Sanskrit is a language which does not contain icons/sign like the swastika.

-the Indian subcontinent has several dozen, mostly Dravidian, languages with own script not related at all to Hindi.

take that from a Farang who possesses Indian permanent residence since many years and who can conduct a (admittedly rather simple) conversation in Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Just to clear things up. I personally have never seen a swastika propaganda flag in Thailand in the 12 years of coming here. I have never seen it either whilst living here now. The difference in its propaganda usage is completely obvious. The topic was the swastika. This pic is exactly the same as the one someone I personally know uses who practices Buddhism. Yes its origins I know are not from Thailand but that wasn't the topic. I appologise for thinking it always faced the other direction also and a thank you for those members who have been informative on the swastikas origins, different orientations and applications. It could have been an interesting topic but as usual the Professors on TVF can't sometimes help themselves from becoming over assertive. Cheers

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6416/159877177.1ec/0_a8fba_1b325dec_XL.jpg

The flag shop in Bosang (just outside CM) sells NAZI Swastika flags, if you drive past they often have it on display in the road.

Edited July 11, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Jingthing]

It's not unusual to spot heroic Hitler portraits at copy painting shops in Pattaya, complete of course with NAZI swastikas. All I can do when I pass such places is to snarl at them. Oh well ... Someone is buying ...

I seriously doubt anyone viewing those works of "art" are confused about whether its Nazi stuff or not ...

Edited July 11, 2013 by Jingthing

[dogsdinner]

Just to clear things up. I personally have never seen a swastika propaganda flag in Thailand in the 12 years of coming here. I have never seen it either whilst living here now. The difference in its propaganda usage is completely obvious. The topic was the swastika. This pic is exactly the same as the one someone I personally know uses who practices Buddhism. Yes its origins I know are not from Thailand but that wasn't the topic. I appologise for thinking it always faced the other direction also and a thank you for those members who have been informative on the swastikas origins, different orientations and applications. It could have been an interesting topic but as usual the Professors on TVF can't sometimes help themselves from becoming over assertive. Cheers

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6416/159877177.1ec/0_a8fba_1b325dec_XL.jpg

The flag shop in Bosang (just outside CM) sells NAZI Swastika flags, if you drive past they often have it on display in the road.

I have been to Chang Mai but it's over 10 years ago now. It's not a shop I will be looking for if ever I go back there. It is the first shop however that I have heard it is on sale from. I suppose if you want something, chances are you can find it in Thailand.

[Kudel]

It's not unusual to spot heroic Hitler portraits at copy painting shops in Pattaya, complete of course with NAZI swastikas. All I can do when I pass such places is to snarl at them. Oh well ... Someone is buying ...

I seriously doubt anyone viewing those works of "art" are confused about whether its Nazi stuff or not ...

Maybe they had German English teachers,just saying ..'

[dogsdinner]

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

jesus wept ... where do these people come from ... why would "farangs" have no idea that the first Buddha came from India ?? where do u think they think he came from ??

and how can we "speak ignorantly of its use by the Nazi Party" .. did they not use the swastika ??

i think it is you who is confused and ignorant ... ANY swastikas i have seen here in Thailand have been the Nazi swastika ... Black in a White circle with a Red background ... where's the confusion there ??

http://img-fotki.yan...1b325dec_XL.jpg

Edited July 11, 2013 by dogsdinner

[Ciaran Mc]

Just to clear things up. I personally have never seen a swastika propaganda flag in Thailand in the 12 years of coming here. I have never seen it either whilst living here now. The difference in its propaganda usage is completely obvious. The topic was the swastika. This pic is exactly the same as the one someone I personally know uses who practices Buddhism. Yes its origins I know are not from Thailand but that wasn't the topic. I appologise for thinking it always faced the other direction also and a thank you for those members who have been informative on the swastikas origins, different orientations and applications. It could have been an interesting topic but as usual the Professors on TVF can't sometimes help themselves from becoming over assertive. Cheers

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6416/159877177.1ec/0_a8fba_1b325dec_XL.jpg

well u must have been walking around with your eyes closed then !!

i've seen loads of Thai teens wearing t-shirts with Nazi Swastikas on them, i've seen street stalls along rampkhamhang selling same t-shirts and i remember walking past a little bar/restaurant near mall bang kapi with Nazi flags pinned to the wall !!

[nosatisfaction]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Absolutely correct

[Docno]

So what to do make of this (photo taken last year at the Royal Palace). Is it a Buddhist/Hindu swastika? Or Nazi? And if Nazi, did the guy know it was, or did he simply consider it a good luck symbol, or did he just think it looked cool with his Gucci purse?

[Docno]

And here is a shot of earrings that a friend bought in Singapore. The swastika goes in the same direction as the supposedly Nazi swastika, so is that how it should be interpreted. BTW, when I asked, she had no clue about Adolf or the Nazis....

[drdoom6996]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

You eat the chicken.

[wilcopops]

Which way round the swatika faces in not actually as relevat as some people seem to believe. THey ARE in essence the same symbol....just adaptations.

The symbol in Europe predates the Nazis by hundreds of years - they claim to have used it as it symbolised the roots (Indian) of the aAryan traditions.

the word "Swastika" has the same roots as the Thai greeting "Sawatdi(khrap)" introduced into the Thai language in the 1930s - so it would be reasonable to assume that those introducing it were well aware of its usage in Germany adopted 10 years previously by the German Nazi Party

Edited July 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[stickylies]

1/ the swastika has been used all over the world for many centuries, including europe and native america

2/ hitler and his nazi gang had something with esoterism, including buddhism and hinduism

feel free to ask mommy...

[mallmagician]

I can tell the difference.

One is a symbol of a school of thought that has resulted in millions of deaths. Still followed today by small minded individuals that pollute young minds with the same nonsense to further infiltrate our society with prejudice and pious nonsense.

The other is a nazi symbol.

I can understand the confusion. Two different evils with common threads.

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

[Rabbi]

It has been interesting to read the various comments from Members about this misunderstood symbol and its affect old society through the ages. I do not want to debate any aspects but hope that my input will help explain &/or clarify it.

******************************

The swastika is an extremely powerful symbol. The Nazis used it to murder millions of people, but for centuries it had positive meanings but today the symbol is most commonly associated with Nazi Germany, the Holocaust, neo-Nazis and other hate groups

The Oldest Known Symbol

The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. (That even predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh!) Artefacts such as pottery and coins from ancient Troy show that the swastika was a commonly used symbol as far back as 1000 BCE.

During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika was used by many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe. By the Middle Ages, the swastika was a well known, if not commonly used, symbol but was called by many different names:

• China - wan
• England - fylfot
• Germany - Hakenkreuz
• Greece - tetraskelion and gammadion
• India - swastika

Though it is not known for exactly how long, Native Americans also have long used the symbol of the swastika.

The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.

What Does the Swastika Mean Now?

There is a great debate as to what the swastika means now. For 3,000 years, the swastika meant life and good luck. But because of the Nazis, it has also taken on a meaning of death and hate.

These conflicting meanings are causing problems in today's society. For Buddhists and Hindus, the swastika is a very religious symbol that is commonly used.

Unfortunately, the Nazis were so effective at their use of the swastika emblem, that many do not even know any other meaning for the swastika.

Does the Direction of the Swastika Matter?

In ancient times, the direction of the swastika was interchangeable as can be seen on an ancient Chinese silk drawing.

Some cultures in the past had differentiated between the clockwise swastika and the counter-clockwise sauvastika. In these cultures the swastika symbolized health and life while the sauvastika took on a mystical meaning of bad-luck or misfortune. Since the Nazis use of the swastika, some people are trying to differentiate the two meanings of the swastika by varying its direction - trying to make the clockwise, Nazi version of the swastika mean hate and death while the counter-clockwise version would hold the ancient meaning of the symbol, life and good-luck.

[samjaidee]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

Most Thais don't practice Buddhism. They do however claim to be Buddhist.

Practicing and claiming to be are two quite different things.

[dunque]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

He lived on the Indian sub-continent, India as a country did not exist at that time, Nepal did not exist at that time.The country (Shakya Republic) in which he was allegedly born, was half in what is now Nepal and half in what is now India.The town he was allegedly born in (Lumphini) appears to have been in, what is now, the Nepal half.Can you be born in a country that is yet to exist? I think NOCan you be born in a sub-continant recently named? I think YES.

This works fine I you subscribe to the linear view of time, but this could be considered an outdated concept.

[Jingthing]

It has been interesting to read the various comments from Members about this misunderstood symbol and its affect old society through the ages. I do not want to debate any aspects but hope that my input will help explain &/or clarify it.

...

Thanks for "your" input.

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm

[Docno]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

Most Thais don't practice Buddhism. They do however claim to be Buddhist.

Practicing and claiming to be are two quite different things.

Please explain. And what is your evidence for a statement re "most Thais"?

[tragickingdom]

The confusion is not the Swastika itself but the people using it. They are using the Nazi swastika and not one of the very much older other ones. So maybe the Thai public need some extra history lessons. But do not be mistaken. 90% of the Thai public do not know the difference itself and have no clue what Hitler did. Hitler is a nice uncle for them. That's the problem with a country in which the elite falsify history just like in Japan. The Thai people still think they were never occupied just because they invited the Japanese in themselves and had a copy of the Vichy government.

So yes the confusion over Swastika's work both way. Foreigners do not get it, Thais do not get it either.

[Halion]

Most farang get the Thai swastika confused with Nazi Germany.

I don't agree.

Most "f-rang" can recognize an actual Nazi swastika quite easily.

I think this is a non-issue.

Buddhists aren't being given a hard time.

The controversy in Thailand with Nazi stuff is with ACTUAL Nazi/Hitler stuff.

Agree, I think the majority of the confusion or misunderstanding is on the Thai side and not with the falangs. The Thai insular attitudes and lack of global and historical understanding results in them failing to appreciate how the similarities can be confused and further more they have little or no appreciation of the struggle in Europe during the Nazi regime and what the Nazi swastika symbolizes to falangs..

[cobra1]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

You could be wrong...how do you know for certain, was he your next door neighbour or something ?.....you would have been better stating..it is believed...you are stating some thing as fact which it may or may not be....

Did Jesus come from Nazereth ?...was he born in Bethlehem ? are these facts ?

Did any of them actually exist or is it a myth iam a atheist! does god exist or Allah none of us actually no it's just all passed down

[KarenBravo]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

[cobra1]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

A few years ago i had a discussion with five Thai woman in my home country friends of my ex about buddhism ,after asking them where buddhism originates from they all said Thailand and when i told them India they looked at me like i was an alien or something.

So its not only farang who are confused about buddhism.

try asking a thai where the king was born most say Thailand when he was born in america so i heard

[Berkshire]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

No, it's nothing like that. In Thailand, the community standards are Thai (obviously). In other countries, the community standards would be based on the will of the citizens of that particular country. A Thai certainly wouldn't want to go to Germany and flash a Nazi t-shirt.

As for your misleading example, the Thais complaining about disrespect of Buddha images in the west is exactly the same as you complaining about Nazi images in Thailand. Understand?