Bangkok's Mo Chit 2 Bus Terminal to be relocated ahead of AEC

[webfact]

Mo Chit 2 Bus Terminal to be relocated ahead of AEC

BANGKOK, 13 July 2013 (NNT) - The Department of Land Transport is planning to move Mo Chit 2 Bus Terminal to a new location in a bid to accommodate more commuters ahead of the launch of the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC).

Director-General of the Department of Land Transport Somchai Siriwattnachoke said the relocation of Mo Chit will facilitate the tightening of security measures at the new bus terminal, given only ticket holders will be permitted to enter the terminal.

Two committees have been set up to study the relocation proposal, with the budget tentatively set at 3 billion baht. Details of the project are scheduled to be finalized by the end of September.

Muang Thong Thani, Don Mueang and Rangsit areas are seen as possible locations for the new terminal complex. The terminal is expected to cover an area of up to 150 rai of land.

Mr Somchai disclosed that once the AEC comes into effect in 2015, the total amount of passengers using the bus services will likely jump to 60 million a year, up from 30 million this year.


-- NNT 2013-07-13

[allan michaud]

Lets hope they have the intelligence to make sure there are suitable connections to other forms of transport at this new location?

[Bob12345]

Now they only have to find a spot to build the terminal: preferably 1-2 km away from other public transport hubs to give poor motorbike and taxi drivers also a good opportunity to squeeze out some tourists.

[sprq]

Why not go the whole hog? Move it to Ayuthaya so that it's really inconvenient.

And make it compulsory not only to have a ticket before you enter but also to be carrying a top brand suitcase and wearing a suit.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Great... sure... let's move it to Rangsit or MTT... as far outside BKK as possible...making it really inconvenient for EVERYONE...

No modern rail line transit there... Crazy traffic during rush hours.

And of course, what about all the current local BMTA bus lines that currently end or connect at Mochit 2 to serve incoming inter-city buses... Are they going to re-route all those BMTA lines out to Rangsit or MTT as well???

Meanwhile, there's all kind of underused land right now right around Mochit 2, including the old local bus terminal and parking area next door on one side, and the big vacant lot on the other side, along with all the surface bus parking areas...

With 3 billion baht, the government ought to be able to redevelop the whole area -- if it weren't for the fact that 1.5 billion of that probably is destined to go into various officials' pockets.

Edited July 13, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[HarrySeaman]

What? You will need a ticket to enter the terminal?

I guess they are trying to squeeze more money out of the vendors.

[unanimosity]

Lets hope they have the intelligence to make sure there are suitable connections to other forms of transport at this new location?

Oh no, can't do that. Must be a decision made by the taxi lobby, "How far away from Suvarnabhuni can we put it, haha."

[unanimosity]

Great... sure... let's move it to Rangsit or MTT... as far outside BKK as possible...making it really inconvenient for EVERYONE...

No modern rail line transit there... Crazy traffic during rush hours.

And of course, what about all the current local BMTA bus lines that currently end or connect at Mochit 2 to serve incoming inter-city buses... Are they going to re-route all those BMTA lines out to Rangsit or MTT as well???

Meanwhile, there's all kind of underused land right now right around Mochit 2, including the old local bus terminal and parking area next door on one side, and the big vacant lot on the other side, along with all the surface bus parking areas...

With 3 billion baht, the government ought to be able to redevelop the whole area -- if it weren't for the fact that 1.5 billion of that probably is destined to go into various officials' pockets.

One thing you can bank on is that it will wind up on crony land.

[indyuk]

It's got to be Dong Muang plenty of space, have airport, rail station already and room for a helipot too.

[timewilltell]

Not quite sure how useful a heliport is to a bus traveller!

[Bagwan]

I guess a few people of influence are perusing their land holding portfoliios right now.

Why would the formation of the AEC generate more internal travel?

[Lakegeneve]

This move has been in MOTs plans for some years now, they keep going back and forth on it as there is a battle going on within MOT primarily between the SRT and DLT, Dep Trans Minister.

The Minister previously said that the move will most likely happen. Then last year the Deputy Transport Minister stated that Mo Chit will not be moved. 3 months ago he said that it will be modernised and expanded, and that new ramps will be built to the expressway (the lack of being a major cause of traffic jams in the area). The SRT is keen for it to be moved given it is on their land and the proposed huge Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment including their new Intercity Terminal which is now under construction.

Mo Chit 2 does need to be moved given;

1) the chaos and poor design with bad entrance and exit roads including no ramps to the two expressways nearby leading to terrible traffic conditions,

2) No direct mass transit connections (how many people have caught the BTS to Mo Chit to take a bus?)

3) Already exceeding capacity (though Mo Chit 1 did so for years as well)

4) SRT redevlopment and new Bang Sue Intercity Terminal being built,

5) Major hub for criminal activity

6) The whole surrounding area is a complete mess of squalor and bus parking

The proposed planned new site which has been slated for the last 5 years in on Vihavadi-Rangsit rd north of DMK Airport and south of Rangsit, not so far from Zee. It would have a direct link to one of the new Dark Red Line stations so direct mass transit access would be ok. In many ways it makes sense to site it out that way to decrease buses in inner BKK. Also, the plan is to have internal access only for ticket holders and security infrastructure like scanning that exists at the stupidly far flung Southern Bus Terminal (installed for obvious reasons).

The MTT site is not really big enough. It has been previously proposed as the BRT depot (2nd BRT line is meant to be Mo Chit to MTT via Vihavadi) but that is all on hold. It was then suggested it could be the MRT Pink LIne monorail depot but that was canned. Can't really see it being the site of a new northern bus terminal as the site is too small and access into the area is very problematic - MTT is a mess traffic wise when events are on at Impact and Challenger. (The Pink Line will not enter MTT)

What may happen is that two new terminals are built at separate locations, one for North and one for NE . Whatever happens will NOT happen "ahead of the launch of the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC)" in 2015.

The committee will make a recommendation, that will be changed by someone high up in MOT, another decision will be made, that will then be amended or changed, belatedly a quick decision and bidget approved. However, design and tender will be slow. Whatever construction timetable is implemented will then be exceeded by at least 50%. 2017 looks much more realistic.....

Also, don't forget that the Eastern Bus Terminal is planned to be moved to Bang Na way near BITEC. Not sure of the time frame for that one

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

LG... thanks for the very good and useful info, as usual...

About one thing you mention... Have I been sleeping? What the heck is this?

The SRT is keen for it to be moved given it is on their land and the proposed huge Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment including their new Intercity Terminal which is now under construction.

Intercity Terminal where and serving what...and to where???

[hansnl]

What? You will need a ticket to enter the terminal?

I guess they are trying to squeeze more money out of the vendors.

Yes, after buying the ticket in the ticket hall.

Then you can enter the terminal.

Which is the place where the buses load & unload passengers.

[davejones]

And how will everyone get to Rangsit? Does some politician own land there?

[MichelBangkok]

"Integration" is a word that cannot be translated in Thai, as each separate agency or department works in an absolute "stand-alone" mode, so better not dream of a location that will be user-friendly with easy access to local transportation. Just look at the Suvarnabhumi express link that ends downtown in the middle of nowhere.

[AyG]

"Integration" is a word that cannot be translated in Thai, as each separate agency or department works in an absolute "stand-alone" mode, so better not dream of a location that will be user-friendly with easy access to local transportation. Just look at the Suvarnabhumi express link that ends downtown in the middle of nowhere.

Or look at the mess of a connection between BTS and MRT at Asoke (a connection which wasn't even considered in the original plans).

[Katipo]

Lets hope they have the intelligence to make sure there are suitable connections to other forms of transport at this new location?

So, haven't been in Thailand long then, eh?

[Lakegeneve]

LG... thanks for the very good and useful info, as usual...

About one thing you mention... Have I been sleeping? What the heck is this?

The SRT is keen for it to be moved given it is on their land and the proposed huge Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment including their new Intercity Terminal which is now under construction.

Intercity Terminal where and serving what...and to where???

Sleeping, haha? I have mentioned this in the ARL thread in terms of the proposed ext to DMK via the new Bang Sue Terminal, no doubt you just missed it

Site works finally started 2-3 months ago with a huge hole currently being dug for the underground car park - just east of the current Bang Sue 2 station. Work was originally meant to have commenced in 2011. (Actually, the SRT stated in 07 that the new terminal would be opened by 2012!)

It will be a multi-tiered station with 20 platforms for all Intercity and HSR lines (save for the eastern line which will use Makkasan), ARL ext and commuter/suburban lines - the 2 Red Lines;

- 12 platforms for Intercity & HSR lines,

- 4 platforms for suburban/comutter,

- 2 for the ARL,

- 2 for future use

(Note: platform configuration may change)

For further detailed info just check 2Bangkok, 'Bang Sue Redevelopment' thread in the SRT sub-forum. (One weekend catch the MRT to Bang Sue and take a look, it is just east of the exit. You could also check out the Blue Line ext with a short 1km walk west to Taopoon where you can view the huge Blue & Purple line interchange station).

Here are a few renders;

This map gives you a clear understanding of the location. Remember, most of the Bang Sue railyards are planned for a huge redevelopment (you can see some of what is planned in the section to the right of this map) with different zones linked b a mono rail.

[Lakegeneve]

And how will everyone get to Rangsit? Does some politician own land there?

It would have a direct link to one of the new Dark Red Line stations so direct mass transit access would be ok.

That and the fact that around 20 bus & van routes pass directly out the front. Also, the BTS at Saphan Mai and the Pink Line at Chaeng Wattana would be not too far away. It is state land.

[Lakegeneve]

"Integration" is a word that cannot be translated in Thai, as each separate agency or department works in an absolute "stand-alone" mode, so better not dream of a location that will be user-friendly with easy access to local transportation. Just look at the Suvarnabhumi express link that ends downtown in the middle of nowhere.

The first part regarding integration is absolutely correct. However, the last sentence assuming that you are referring to Makkasan is grossly wrong. Usually long term planning is not a forte but in this instance foresight was shown.

Clearly, you don't know that a decade ago the Makkasan Railyards have been proposed for a huge development and thus this was selected to be the most suitable location also being near the inner ring road. That a new 'Inner Bangkok City' as it was termed will be built here - the original plan had 4, 90+ storey towers! That fact and that the CAT will be the terminal for the new HSR line to Rayong (1st proposed in the late 90s) and another metro line makes the terminal location & size most appropriate.

Here is a model of what Makkasan may look like in 20 years and you can clearly see that the terminal will be a major transport hub (a mono rail loop is planned for the whole area)

Edited July 15, 2013 by Lakegeneve

[AyG]

Site works finally started 2-3 months ago with a huge hole currently being dug for the underground car park

Which will double up as an underground swimming pool next time there's flooding in the area.

[Lakegeneve]

Site works finally started 2-3 months ago with a huge hole currently being dug for the underground car park

Which will double up as an underground swimming pool next time there's flooding in the area.

Perhaps your cynicism will have some future reality once in the next 50 years but it won't affect the trains as all the lines will be elevated!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The SRT is keen for it to be moved given it is on their land and the proposed huge Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment including their new Intercity Terminal which is now under construction.

Intercity Terminal where and serving what...and to where???

Sleeping, haha? I have mentioned this in the ARL thread in terms of the proposed ext to DMK via the new Bang Sue Terminal, no doubt you just missed it

Site works finally started 2-3 months ago with a huge hole currently being dug for the underground car park - just east of the current Bang Sue 2 station. Work was originally meant to have commenced in 2011. (Actually, the SRT stated in 07 that the new terminal would be opened by 2012!)

It will be a multi-tiered station with 20 platforms for all Intercity and HSR lines (save for the eastern line which will use Makkasan), ARL ext and commuter/suburban lines - the 2 Red Lines;

- 12 platforms for Intercity & HSR lines,

- 4 platforms for suburban/comutter,

- 2 for the ARL,

- 2 for future use

(Note: platform configuration may change)

This map gives you a clear understanding of the location. Remember, most of the Bang Sue railyards are planned for a huge redevelopment (you can see some of what is planned in the section to the right of this map) with different zones linked b a mono rail.

LG, thanks very much... Can you add some context to how the Bang Sue Intercity Terminal will function relative to Hua Lamphong?

In other words, at least as I understand it, HLP is now the terminus point for intercity traditional rail trains coming into Bangkok. Once the Bang Sue Intercity Terminal opens in 10? / 100? years, will it be a location that traditional trains will stop at en route to HLP? Or it will end up replacing HLP as the main terminus point for BKK intercity rail?

And re the ARL extension, I gather you're talking about the proposed Phayathai to DMK extension? So then the Bang Sue Intercity Terminal would be a stopping point for the ARL extension from Phayathai enroute to Don Mueang?

As for the current Mochit 2 bus terminal, if they end up relocating that function elsewhere as discussed, what's the thinking about what would become of the current Mochit 2 Station buildings and land?

It's kind of hard to get a mental grasp on all this stuff, because these projects usually seem to drag out years and sometimes decades beyond what's projected at any given time. I was reading about the Bang Sue project in the 2Bangkok forum, but the info I was seeing there seemed very far out of date.

Edited July 15, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Salapoo]

What? You will need a ticket to enter the terminal?

So there will presumably be massive queues just to get in there. Imagine the entire New Year or Songkran crowd trying to show 10 menials in uniforms at a turnstyle their individual tickets to get through.

The 15 rai will probably be used up just for the queue to get in there.

[Lakegeneve]

The SRT is keen for it to be moved given it is on their land and the proposed huge Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment including their new Intercity Terminal which is now under construction.

Intercity Terminal where and serving what...and to where???

Sleeping, haha? I have mentioned this in the ARL thread in terms of the proposed ext to DMK via the new Bang Sue Terminal, no doubt you just missed it

Site works finally started 2-3 months ago with a huge hole currently being dug for the underground car park - just east of the current Bang Sue 2 station. Work was originally meant to have commenced in 2011. (Actually, the SRT stated in 07 that the new terminal would be opened by 2012!)

It will be a multi-tiered station with 20 platforms for all Intercity and HSR lines (save for the eastern line which will use Makkasan), ARL ext and commuter/suburban lines - the 2 Red Lines;

- 12 platforms for Intercity & HSR lines,

- 4 platforms for suburban/comutter,

- 2 for the ARL,

- 2 for future use

(Note: platform configuration may change)

This map gives you a clear understanding of the location. Remember, most of the Bang Sue railyards are planned for a huge redevelopment (you can see some of what is planned in the section to the right of this map) with different zones linked b a mono rail.

LG, thanks very much... Can you add some context to how the Bang Sue Intercity Terminal will function relative to Hua Lamphong?

In other words, at least as I understand it, HLP is now the terminus point for intercity traditional rail trains coming into Bangkok. Once the Bang Sue Intercity Terminal opens in 10? / 100? years, will it be a location that traditional trains will stop at en route to HLP? Or it will end up replacing HLP as the main terminus point for BKK intercity rail?

And re the ARL extension, I gather you're talking about the proposed Phayathai to DMK extension? So then the Bang Sue Intercity Terminal would be a stopping point for the ARL extension from Phayathai enroute to Don Mueang?

As for the current Mochit 2 bus terminal, if they end up relocating that function elsewhere as discussed, what's the thinking about what would become of the current Mochit 2 Station buildings and land?

It's kind of hard to get a mental grasp on all this stuff, because these projects usually seem to drag out years and sometimes decades beyond what's projected at any given time. I was reading about the Bang Sue project in the 2Bangkok forum, but the info I was seeing there seemed very far out of date.

Hua Lamphong will cease to function save for a few services and the Dark Red Line when it is extended to Mahachai from Bang Sue. Some want it to become a mesuem , some want it to retain more services. The railyards north of the station will be redeveloped with office towers/condos- currently under a study. As this render shows

The ARL ext from Phayathai to DMk will have 5 stations; 1) Ratchawithi (Chitladda Palace station), 2) Bang Sue, 3) Bang Khen, 4) Laksi (Pink Line) 5) DMK

As stated, the SRT wants the land of Mo Chit 2 for the huge Bang Sue Redevelopment which will involve new railyards and depots for intercity & HSR, an office zone to the west, merging the parks and putting Chataujak markets underground.

You can see in the map below that Mo Chit 2 takes up a large space right in the middle of the new yards - having this land back would allow for more flexibility and intergration.

(Note: credit to Khun Marut on SSC for overlaying the OTP map onto google earth map)

On your last point, yes it can be difficult given blow outs in deadlines and constant changes. However, this current period and the next 5-10yrs will see a massive expansion of the metro network in BKK and a belated upgrading of the SRT network including new HSR lines. All of the info you require is available.

As for the 2Bangkok site, it has the most recent articles from this year on the Bang Sue Redevelopment and posted pics of the site from a few weeks ago. I don't really understand how you can say that the relevant thread "seemed very far out of date". Perhaps, you were just looking in the wrong place? (Unfortunately, I can't link the thread due to TV rules).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

LG.. thanks very much... That's amazing info... especially about the planned demise of Hua Lamphong... Let's see how long it's going to take them to accomplish that transition, if ever...

I'll go back and look at the 2Bangkok site again... I was reading one thread on the subject there... but perhaps not the one you're pointing me to... Meanwhile....

...putting Chataujak markets underground????

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lakegeneve]

LG.. thanks very much... That's amazing info... especially about the planned demise of Hua Lamphong... Let's see how long it's going to take them to accomplish that transition, if ever...

I'll go back and look at the 2Bangkok site again... I was reading one thread on the subject there... but perhaps not the one you're pointing me to... Meanwhile....

...putting Chataujak markets underground????

Yes, Chatujak will be re built in time as an underground market or with elements of a multi-storey one similar to the JJ building. The place is a mess, a fire-trap and a robbers delight! Having a mixed underground, ground and multi-level market will free up some land for other use (perfect condo site!) and revenue for the SRT. Of course that assumes a well designed market......

Now that the SRT finally got the lease back from the BMA (in late 2011) the SRT can start generating some profits and invest it back over time as the Bang Sue Redevelopment is gradually implemented. The BMA were leasing Chatujak from the SRT for less than 50m a year while making over a report 1.2 Billion in revenue!!!

This smaller map may give a better idea of the redevelopment zones;

6 is Mo Chit 2

8 Chatujak,

9 New Bang Sue Terminal

You can also see on this map area 3, which is Central Latphrao. Central was also paying a pittance for leasing the land until 2007 when the lease was renegotiated. One the reasons why the SRT is so indebted is that tenants have been paying way below market rates for decades - as well as local influential figures getting plots for free - and thus the SRT has been losing literally billions and billions in potential income over the last few decades.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The BMA were leasing Chatujak from the SRT for less than 50m a year while making over a report 1.2 Billion in revenue!!!

No wonder the traditional rail system is falling apart and the SRT is in debit up to their eyeballs.

With management skills like that, and all the freebies for the "local influential figures," it's a wonder they can actually accomplish anything.

[Lakegeneve]

LG.. thanks very much... That's amazing info... especially about the planned demise of Hua Lamphong... Let's see how long it's going to take them to accomplish that transition, if ever...

I'll go back and look at the 2Bangkok site again... I was reading one thread on the subject there... but perhaps not the one you're pointing me to... Meanwhile....

...putting Chataujak markets underground????

John, an extract from a Gov release mid last week

Transport Minister Chadchat Sittipunt has commissioned the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP) to study the development plan for the "Phahon Yothin" land plot, OTP deputy director-general Chaiwat Tongkamkoon, said.

The OTP will propose an area near Bang Sue train station to be developed into a multi-storey train depot to house conventional trains, electric trains and high-speed trains, he said. They will also erect a Transport Ministry office building.

Under the development, Chatuchak market would also be revamped with a building to house all of the market's stalls. The building aims to maximise the market's space. Vendors will conduct their business in the building, he said, adding that a green space will also be included.

A monorail, a bus route or an electric train system will serve the area, which also will operate as a government complex and transport centre, serving about 100,000 people daily, Mr Chaiwat said. The OTP will finish its study before the end of the

year.