Thailand has a new popular sensation - Hitler

Bluespunk · July 16, 2013

Kind of weird that Thai's see this Monster as 'Trendy'. Shows a shocking lack of knowledge and understanding that this man would have had all Thai's exterminated as 'Sub-Humans', or worked them to death as slave labour.
Where do you get this idea?
Hitler hated blacks...no evidence that he hated Asians.He teamed with the Japanese and he had enormous respect for Tibetan culture, for starters.

Hitler was/is demonized because he threw a huge monkey wrench into the world order of his time.

...and the victors wrote the history.

Wrong. Hitler is demonized because of the genocides he was responsible for throughout Europe. History is not written by the winners, all historians can write history. What are you suggesting the "winners" wrote that is incorrect?

weary · July 16, 2013

...

Russians were Hitler's biggest victims. His plan was to murder 50-60% of them and subject the others to enslavement and deportation to Siberia (google Generalplan Ost).

...

Yes it is very ironic that neo-Nazis have become so strong in Russia considering what Hitler did to Russia. But the point was about NEO-NAZIS and I wanted to connect the topic of Hitler and Nazis to ASIANS (thus Thais), and what's happening in Russia does that.

For any ignorant Thais who think Nazism and the worship of Hitler has nothing to do with Asians and Thais, well, they are wrong. It was a WHITE SUPREMACIST movement. Thais are not white people.

Not yet; no. But you have to hand it to them, they are doing the best they can to get there. What scares me more than the Thais genetically modifying their kids to look like Hitler because it's 'na rak' is all the potential Hello Kitty-lookalike babies.

jamhar · July 16, 2013

CBS News picks up AP feed.

Thai university apologizes for Hitler banner
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57593744/thai-university-apologizes-for-hitler-banner/

Bluespunk · July 16, 2013

Stop this ludicrous and dangerous trend now. We cannot accept sensationalism of what this evil man did to fellow human beings, no matter how long ago.

Why can we not accept it? And how may I ask would you stop it anyway?

It's bringing the matter into the public eye, and more and more people here will understand the history as it comes out. Awareness is the beginning of understanding, and I'm presuming that you would have them understand, rather than simply deciding that you should be Thailand's censor of what they should be allowed to know or how they should be allowed to express themselves.

All any of us here *knows* is what we have read and what we have been told. It is undoubtedly only part of the truth.

What exactly do you mean by that last paragraph? What partial truth are you referring to?

Bluespunk · July 16, 2013

Let's have a sense of perspective please. Stalin is not reviled, and Mao is still a hero in some quarters ( and they probably killed more people than Hitler ), not to forget Guavera, Begin ( a terrorist that went on to become a iPM, like Mugabe ) and others. Hitler was a very bad man in a world full of very bad men but not unique by any means.

If you don't get upset by them, why pick on Hitler?

Stalin is reviled by many people as is Mao. Hitler is despised as evil because of the way he industrialised genocide, because of the lengths he was prepared to go to in order to exterminate people based on religion, ethnicity, physical disability, mental disability. He was a rabid genocidal maniac who thought the slaughter of people was justified because of his sick ideology.

metisdead · July 16, 2013

An off topic post has been removed.

Bluespunk · July 16, 2013

Hitler was a mass murderer, yes. It is sad to see young and uneducated people idolize him. Totally agree...

BUT - I see people proudly wearing Obama shirts... Despite his empty words blabla like Change (What has changed? Definitely nothing to the better under his administration), and Yes We Can! (Can what? Bomb the $hit out of civilians and hundreds of thousands of innocent children? Can get hundreds of thousands of Americans live in tents now?). You can see how many civilians have been killed by drone strikes under this "glorious" string puppet Obama alone: http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/ (these are the drone strike numbers only and do not include the millions of civilians american soldiers killed in action)

Why wear Obama's T-shirt? Is he a better person because he managed to kill only 2, 4 or 8 million of civilians during his "reign"? People, especially Americans should better keep their holes shut as each one of us westernes are guilty, and this just because we don't have the guts to stand up and forever stop our governments and politicians from causing havoc and destrucion all over the world. We could, but we are just too comfy right now in our air-con mansions, sitting on our sofas with a nice, cold beer and some chips watching NFL or Oprah on our flat screens...

I see people with CHE caps, shirts and tattoos... Was he a saint? F#ck NO! And there would be hundreds of others whose images are printed on stamps, bank notes, coins, shirts, bags, watches, even have been carved in stone - others, who (altogether) were responsible for so many millions of dead civilians that the sheer numbers would make Adolf Hitler look like a altar boy in comparison...

Not saying that Hitler was any greater than a <deleted> cockroach, but do me and the world a favour and stop the hypocrisy. Thanks!

Barrack Obama cannot be compared to hitler. Where do you get this figure of 8 million dead from? I seriously doubt there is anyone in history who can make hitler seem like a alter boy. No ones saying there have not been other genocidal maniacs throughout history, but their crimes against humanity do not in any way reduce those of hitler. Edited July 16, 2013 by Bluespunk

catweazle · July 17, 2013

Hitler was a mass murderer, yes. It is sad to see young and uneducated people idolize him. Totally agree...

BUT - I see people proudly wearing Obama shirts... Despite his empty words blabla like Change (What has changed? Definitely nothing to the better under his administration), and Yes We Can! (Can what? Bomb the $hit out of civilians and hundreds of thousands of innocent children? Can get hundreds of thousands of Americans live in tents now?). You can see how many civilians have been killed by drone strikes under this "glorious" string puppet Obama alone: http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/ (these are the drone strike numbers only and do not include the millions of civilians american soldiers killed in action)

Why wear Obama's T-shirt? Is he a better person because he managed to kill only 2, 4 or 8 million of civilians during his "reign"? People, especially Americans should better keep their holes shut as each one of us westernes are guilty, and this just because we don't have the guts to stand up and forever stop our governments and politicians from causing havoc and destrucion all over the world. We could, but we are just too comfy right now in our air-con mansions, sitting on our sofas with a nice, cold beer and some chips watching NFL or Oprah on our flat screens...

I see people with CHE caps, shirts and tattoos... Was he a saint? F#ck NO! And there would be hundreds of others whose images are printed on stamps, bank notes, coins, shirts, bags, watches, even have been carved in stone - others, who (altogether) were responsible for so many millions of dead civilians that the sheer numbers would make Adolf Hitler look like a altar boy in comparison...

Not saying that Hitler was any greater than a <deleted> cockroach, but do me and the world a favour and stop the hypocrisy. Thanks!

Barrack Obama cannot be compared to hitler. Where do you get this figure of 8 million dead from? I seriously doubt there is anyone in history who can make hitler seem like a alter boy. No ones saying there have not been other genocidal maniacs throughout history, but their crimes against humanity do not in any way reduce those of hitler.

Check the internet for non-mainstream and non-brainwashed media and all of your questions will be answered. My post was never written to reduce the crimes of anyone in any way. But all this has been written and been discussed over and over again in the past Hitler threads to an extend that makes me tired and bored. If you want to continue to spend your life in a state of utter ignorance and believe what mainstream media and your history professor or teacher has told you, that's fine with me, but in that case please leave me alone.

Edited July 17, 2013 by catweazle

Bluespunk · July 17, 2013

Hitler was a mass murderer, yes. It is sad to see young and uneducated people idolize him. Totally agree...

BUT - I see people proudly wearing Obama shirts... Despite his empty words blabla like Change (What has changed? Definitely nothing to the better under his administration), and Yes We Can! (Can what? Bomb the $hit out of civilians and hundreds of thousands of innocent children? Can get hundreds of thousands of Americans live in tents now?). You can see how many civilians have been killed by drone strikes under this "glorious" string puppet Obama alone: http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/ (these are the drone strike numbers only and do not include the millions of civilians american soldiers killed in action)

Why wear Obama's T-shirt? Is he a better person because he managed to kill only 2, 4 or 8 million of civilians during his "reign"? People, especially Americans should better keep their holes shut as each one of us westernes are guilty, and this just because we don't have the guts to stand up and forever stop our governments and politicians from causing havoc and destrucion all over the world. We could, but we are just too comfy right now in our air-con mansions, sitting on our sofas with a nice, cold beer and some chips watching NFL or Oprah on our flat screens...

I see people with CHE caps, shirts and tattoos... Was he a saint? F#ck NO! And there would be hundreds of others whose images are printed on stamps, bank notes, coins, shirts, bags, watches, even have been carved in stone - others, who (altogether) were responsible for so many millions of dead civilians that the sheer numbers would make Adolf Hitler look like a altar boy in comparison...

Not saying that Hitler was any greater than a <deleted> cockroach, but do me and the world a favour and stop the hypocrisy. Thanks!

Barrack Obama cannot be compared to hitler. Where do you get this figure of 8 million dead from? I seriously doubt there is anyone in history who can make hitler seem like a alter boy. No ones saying there have not been other genocidal maniacs throughout history, but their crimes against humanity do not in any way reduce those of hitler.

Check the internet for non-mainstream and non-brainwashed media and all of your questions will be answered. My post was never written to reduce the crimes of anyone in any way. But as all this has been written and been discussed over and over again in the past Hitler threads to an extend that makes me tired and bored. If you want to continue to spend your life in a state of utter ignorance and believe what mainstream media and your history professor or teacher has told you, that's fine with me, but in that case please leave me alone.

When i do read non mainstream media I find a lot of conspiracy theory BS and illogical theories. Ignorance is everywhere it would seem, the truth may be out there but the lies are in our heads. As for leaving you alone, quite happy to do so.

slipperylobster · July 17, 2013

Wow - 5 pages with only a handful of relevant or sensible replies. What a pity that the moderators of ThaiVisa don't have the power to say: "This correspondence is now terminated." If they do have that authority, please exercise it NOW.

catweazle · July 17, 2013

Wow - 5 pages with only a handful of relevant or sensible replies. What a pity that the moderators of ThaiVisa don't have the power to say: "This correspondence is now terminated." If they do have that authority, please exercise it NOW.

We are all so happy that at least you are powerful enough to bless us with your posts full of relevance and sensibility. How about changing your name to Captain Sensible instead of slimylobster

Edited July 17, 2013 by catweazle

slipperylobster · July 17, 2013

Wow - 5 pages with only a handful of relevant or sensible replies. What a pity that the moderators of ThaiVisa don't have the power to say: "This correspondence is now terminated." If they do have that authority, please exercise it NOW.

We are all so happy that at least you are powerful enough to bless us with your posts full of relevance and sensibility. How about changing your name to Captain Sensible instead of slimylobster

v

You are very welcome. Such a personal attack with very little prodding... You are certainly a force to be reckoned with. I am, however, confused why you want to close this thread, as you are still reaidng it? 12 pages and still going strong! LOL

gvpraag · July 17, 2013

Is there a world outside of Thailand for Thais?

Ever meet a Jew in Thailand?

Come to the Phitsanulok area and you can meet one: Me !.

I am the only survivor of my family, but I do not get angry about this stupidity.

This is Thailand and you can hardly blame the people that they are ignorant; it is embedded in the system.

My wife and I bought some painting reproductions in a specialized shop in Amsterdam, when we still lived there.

She selected two beautiful van Gogh's, without (I found that out later) ever having heard of the man.

That was my first confrontation with the lack of knowledge about things outside of Thailand.

Later I asked myself: "Do YOU know 2 or more painters from Asia ???" and I had to admit that I did not.

Maybe in general we know a little more about Asia than Thais know about Europe, but somewhere we have the same habits.

PoorSucker · July 17, 2013

Post with racist content removed.

Mousehound · July 17, 2013

My family was decimated during the war and I have a great loathing of fascist ideals so I think trivialising Hitler by putting him on a fast food sign is brilliant - pity we can't get Hitler toilet paper! Or can we?

internationallawreview · July 17, 2013

A Brief History of Hitler in Thailand 2013 (online reactions):

For:

Thais are ignorant/ youth are ignorant – Thus it is excusable that they use Hitler’s/Nazi images as they please even though they were able to find his image/symbols by text/ internet (yet somehow could not find time to read the boring captions…
Thai students are masters of artistic expression, dualism, philosophy - Thus we should get it that those “heiling” students are seeking to inspire us and not just being sadly ignorant and intellectually lazy and blasphemous to the memory of millions who died during Hitler’s time
Thais are not from “western culture” and are aware of only Thai history – Thus they need not know what they do in the context of “our history” because the WORLD War did not touch them when they allied with the Japanese – Hitler’s allies.
Thai school administrators both in the CM school which had kids marching in Nazi regalia and Chula celebrating graduation “Hitler style) are aghast and thoroughly apologetic – Although Thai students are generally not allowed to do anything without approval, which in this case means the school administrators and teachers did not approve of the students making them lose face.

Against:

Thais know exactly who is Hitler - They take some pleasure in finally finding a “button” they can push that agitates Farangs and choose to exercise this “power” irregardless of connotations – More to come as more Thai elitist/xenophobic youth catch on.
Thais (and Asians) in general do not acknowledge the gravity of WW2 and that had Hitler not been defeated, or had it taken much longer they would have suffered much more or possibly would have been annihilated and that it was the sacrifice of “farang” soldiers (and Allied Nation’s families) that spared the Asians this worse fate. (many believe Hitler would have killed/enslaved Thais both for being Asian and gay…).
Thais do know at least basic WW2 history including the fact that the Thai government had made agreements with the Japanese – Thus they use passive/aggressive tactics to disarm important symbols (of war/evil) to the Allies, and/or the Thais are trying to make an ambiguous soup of the clear right & wrong sides of the war to release their own sense of embarrassment / self loathing

Irrelevant – Yet of Interest to many posters:

Some “western” people are ignorant - Thus we are NOT to talk about the ignorance of Thais until everyone in our countries is … completely enlightened? (also refer to #’s 1 and 3 above and try to create an infinite loop from reason here).
Thais are not Jews – Thus they can “Heil” all they want because only Jews care about Hitler and there are no Jews of note in Thailand…(irregardless that the greater number of civilian and soldier casualties were Christian along with some Muslims (north Africa), many Buddhists (China) and members of nearly all other races/religions)
Hitler was not the only mass murderer or evil person in history (ref. Mao, Khan, Stalin, Guevera, Hirahito, Bonaparte, Henri VIII, Colombus, all Americans , possibly Australians and Milli Vanilli), thus we are not allowed to discuss the Thais use of Hitler’s image without fully addressing all other “killers” in our own cultures in every reference here. This of course is PC and creates “fairness” to the Thais.
Thais are great in marketing & propaganda – They are cleverly bringing attention to their “causes” and subtly inviting in Neo-Nazi/ White Supremist to join their club.
Henry Ford talked with Nazis and there are conflicting accounts of the number of victims of the Holocaust/ War ranging from 6 million to 12 million and 40 to 100 million respectively – and we cannot discuss the topic of “Why Thais use Hitler/Nazi imagery and what are the ramifications of this” until we clear up all topics that pop into people’s heads.

a. Some Jews are white and not Thai (see #8), b. Some Thais are elitist and trying to becoming “white”, but not Jewish… to avoid Nazi extermination (see #5)
Thais are hypocrites because they expect foreigners to respect their culture and icons, yet they do not reciprocate.
Some swastikas go left, some go right. Many people beside Nazis use swastikas – we must list them all here before we go forward.
Thais took over Laos and lost it because of the French (but kept Isaan) and hoped allying with Japan would help them obtain Burma…Thus, as Imperialist, they identify with Hitler.
Thais have contributed nothing to world history - the arts, sciences, technology, major events, except a show with Yul Brenner, but they can sure start a heck of a topic.

SteeleJoe · July 18, 2013

Is there a world outside of Thailand for Thais?

Ever meet a Jew in Thailand?

Come to the Phitsanulok area and you can meet one: Me !.

I am the only survivor of my family, but I do not get angry about this stupidity.

This is Thailand and you can hardly blame the people that they are ignorant; it is embedded in the system.

My wife and I bought some painting reproductions in a specialized shop in Amsterdam, when we still lived there.

She selected two beautiful van Gogh's, without (I found that out later) ever having heard of the man.

That was my first confrontation with the lack of knowledge about things outside of Thailand.

Later I asked myself: "Do YOU know 2 or more painters from Asia ???" and I had to admit that I did not.

Maybe in general we know a little more about Asia than Thais know about Europe, but somewhere we have the same habits.

Does your wife know 2 or more painters from Asia?

Sorry, I get your point and it's not entirely wrong, of course but I think this is a common but somewhat specious argument. I don't hold it against Thais that they may not typically know much about the world but I don't buy the excuse that it's because they live in Asia nor do I think not knowing about Hitler, Van Goh, or Shakespeare is necessarily analogous to a European not knowing Sunthorn Phu or Jin Nong or Than Shwe.

By the way, I'm definitely not having a go at your wife - my wife is one of the most intelligent people I've known and she didn't know anything about fine art or world history until I started feeding her hunger for knowledge 20 years ago.

jamhar · July 18, 2013

Another Major newspaper in the US carrying the article

Thai university apologizes for banner featuring Adolf Hitler
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/thai-university-apologizes-for-banner-featuring-adolf-hitler/2013/07/16/24d2ac4a-ee4e-11e2-bb32-725c8351a69e_story.html

And new article in HuffP

Now Thailand Must Act Against 'Nazi Chic'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-abraham-cooper/thailand-must-act-against_b_3595882.html

gvpraag · July 18, 2013

Is there a world outside of Thailand for Thais?

Ever meet a Jew in Thailand?

Come to the Phitsanulok area and you can meet one: ME.

Although my complete family was murdered in WWII (I was the only survivor) I cannot be very angry regarding this subject. I quote Baboon's wise words: "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fail to contend".

For me it is a little to easy when people say that Thais do not know and do not respect our history and culture. In general this might be true, but I give you an example to think about:

My Thai wife is far from stupid but in the beginning of our relationship I found out that she had never heard about van Gogh, Rembrandt and so on. My first reaction was: "that is impossible".

Later I asked myself: "Do YOU know any Asian painter from i.e. van Gogh's period?" I have to admit that I did not. Two possibilities: They don't exist, or I am ignorant.

Bof · July 18, 2013

Is there a world outside of Thailand for Thais?

Ever meet a Jew in Thailand?

Come to the Phitsanulok area and you can meet one: ME.

Although my complete family was murdered in WWII (I was the only survivor) I cannot be very angry regarding this subject. I quote Baboon's wise words: "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fail to contend".

For me it is a little to easy when people say that Thais do not know and do not respect our history and culture. In general this might be true, but I give you an example to think about:

My Thai wife is far from stupid but in the beginning of our relationship I found out that she had never heard about van Gogh, Rembrandt and so on. My first reaction was: "that is impossible".

Later I asked myself: "Do YOU know any Asian painter from i.e. van Gogh's period?" I have to admit that I did not. Two possibilities: They don't exist, or I am ignorant.

They simply don't exist

Thorgal · July 19, 2013

I have seen the swastika T-shirts in 3 malls here in Manila recently as the trend is starting to spread. It must also be noted that this symbol is thousands of years old and maybe westerners should better educate themselves on the origins of the swastika and stop giving its meaning over to Hitler. Hitler is long dead and it is time to restore the symbol back to it religious meanings. As the world war 2 generation dies off lets free up the symbol and allow the kids to wear it and not expect them to bow down to western dogma.

The specific graphic design of the NAZI swastika is not religious. It symbolizes the fascist movement started by Hitler in Nazi Germany.

To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism. It is a common sight on temples or houses in India or Indonesia. Swastikas also have an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures.

The famous archeologist Heinrich Schlieman discovered the hooked cross on the site of ancient Troy. He connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and speculated that it was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors.”

In the beginning of the twentieth century the swastika was widely used in Europe. It had numerous meanings, the most common being a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness.

However, the work of Schliemann soon was taken up by "völkisch" movements, for whom the swastika was a symbol of “Aryan identity” and German nationalist pride...

The Nazi party, however, was not the only party to use the swastika in Germany. After World War I, a number of far-right European nationalist movements adopted the swastika. As a symbol, it became associated with the idea of a racially “pure” state.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Thorgal

SteeleJoe · July 20, 2013

I have seen the swastika T-shirts in 3 malls here in Manila recently as the trend is starting to spread. It must also be noted that this symbol is thousands of years old and maybe westerners should better educate themselves on the origins of the swastika and stop giving its meaning over to Hitler. Hitler is long dead and it is time to restore the symbol back to it religious meanings. As the world war 2 generation dies off lets free up the symbol and allow the kids to wear it and not expect them to bow down to western dogma.
The specific graphic design of the NAZI swastika is not religious. It symbolizes the fascist movement started by Hitler in Nazi Germany.

To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism. It is a common sight on temples or houses in India or Indonesia. Swastikas also have an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures.

The famous archeologist Heinrich Schlieman discovered the hooked cross on the site of ancient Troy. He connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and speculated that it was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors.”

In the beginning of the twentieth century the swastika was widely used in Europe. It had numerous meanings, the most common being a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness.

However, the work of Schliemann soon was taken up by "völkisch" movements, for whom the swastika was a symbol of “Aryan identity” and German nationalist pride...

The Nazi party, however, was not the only party to use the swastika in Germany. After World War I, a number of far-right European nationalist movements adopted the swastika. As a symbol, it became associated with the idea of a racially “pure” state.

Many people are aware of this, and Jingthing must be because so many have posted it before (I mostly stopped informing people of this about 10 years ago because it seems so cliche). The fact is )and I assume this is what JT is alluding to) the NAZI swastika is distinct - 45 degree axis, on a white circle surrounded by red - and even absent those details, context matters and has obvious connotations.

By the way, if your post consists of a C&P, you should credit the source lest it appear that you are trying to take credit for someone else's scholarship.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453

SteeleJoe · July 20, 2013

Is there a world outside of Thailand for Thais?

Ever meet a Jew in Thailand?

Come to the Phitsanulok area and you can meet one: ME.

Although my complete family was murdered in WWII (I was the only survivor) I cannot be very angry regarding this subject. I quote Baboon's wise words: "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fail to contend".

For me it is a little to easy when people say that Thais do not know and do not respect our history and culture. In general this might be true, but I give you an example to think about:

My Thai wife is far from stupid but in the beginning of our relationship I found out that she had never heard about van Gogh, Rembrandt and so on. My first reaction was: "that is impossible".

Later I asked myself: "Do YOU know any Asian painter from i.e. van Gogh's period?" I have to admit that I did not. Two possibilities: They don't exist, or I am ignorant.

They simply don't exist

You simply don't know what you are talking about. And you are thinking quite simply.

Robi Schwab · July 20, 2013

I have seen the swastika T-shirts in 3 malls here in Manila recently as the trend is starting to spread. It must also be noted that this symbol is thousands of years old and maybe westerners should better educate themselves on the origins of the swastika and stop giving its meaning over to Hitler. Hitler is long dead and it is time to restore the symbol back to it religious meanings. As the world war 2 generation dies off lets free up the symbol and allow the kids to wear it and not expect them to bow down to western dogma.
The specific graphic design of the NAZI swastika is not religious. It symbolizes the fascist movement started by Hitler in Nazi Germany.

To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism. It is a common sight on temples or houses in India or Indonesia. Swastikas also have an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures.

The famous archeologist Heinrich Schlieman discovered the hooked cross on the site of ancient Troy. He connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and speculated that it was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors.”

In the beginning of the twentieth century the swastika was widely used in Europe. It had numerous meanings, the most common being a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness.

However, the work of Schliemann soon was taken up by "völkisch" movements, for whom the swastika was a symbol of “Aryan identity” and German nationalist pride...

The Nazi party, however, was not the only party to use the swastika in Germany. After World War I, a number of far-right European nationalist movements adopted the swastika. As a symbol, it became associated with the idea of a racially “pure” state.

Many people are aware of this, and Jingthing must be because so many have posted it before (I mostly stopped informing people of this about 10 years ago because it seems so cliche). The fact is )and I assume this is what JT is alluding to) the NAZI swastika is distinct - 45 degree axis, on a white circle surrounded by red - and even absent those details, context matters and has obvious connotations.

By the way, if your post consists of a C&P, you should credit the source lest it appear that you are trying to take credit for someone else's scholarship.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453

Nowhere in the design of the Swastika, the Nazi German or any other one does a 45º angle appear. It's all 100% square in every aspect. (All angles are exactly 90º. And it's THIS property of this symbol that bares it's Buddhist significance.

Thorgal · July 20, 2013

I have seen the swastika T-shirts in 3 malls here in Manila recently as the trend is starting to spread. It must also be noted that this symbol is thousands of years old and maybe westerners should better educate themselves on the origins of the swastika and stop giving its meaning over to Hitler. Hitler is long dead and it is time to restore the symbol back to it religious meanings. As the world war 2 generation dies off lets free up the symbol and allow the kids to wear it and not expect them to bow down to western dogma.
The specific graphic design of the NAZI swastika is not religious. It symbolizes the fascist movement started by Hitler in Nazi Germany.

To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism. It is a common sight on temples or houses in India or Indonesia. Swastikas also have an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures.

The famous archeologist Heinrich Schlieman discovered the hooked cross on the site of ancient Troy. He connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and speculated that it was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors.”

In the beginning of the twentieth century the swastika was widely used in Europe. It had numerous meanings, the most common being a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness.

However, the work of Schliemann soon was taken up by "völkisch" movements, for whom the swastika was a symbol of “Aryan identity” and German nationalist pride...

The Nazi party, however, was not the only party to use the swastika in Germany. After World War I, a number of far-right European nationalist movements adopted the swastika. As a symbol, it became associated with the idea of a racially “pure” state.

Many people are aware of this, and Jingthing must be because so many have posted it before (I mostly stopped informing people of this about 10 years ago because it seems so cliche). The fact is )and I assume this is what JT is alluding to) the NAZI swastika is distinct - 45 degree axis, on a white circle surrounded by red - and even absent those details, context matters and has obvious connotations.

By the way, if your post consists of a C&P, you should credit the source lest it appear that you are trying to take credit for someone else's scholarship.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453

I was not trying to take credit for someone else's scholarship in my previous post...

But if you add again 45° axis from the original sign , like you just did..., you will have again the same original swastika...

And if you turn it upside down you will have the same result.

I've no problem with people who try to describe this symbol with their own words.

But that people use it nowadays without knowing the real origin like the OP is simply sad...

Edited July 20, 2013 by Thorgal

SteeleJoe · July 20, 2013

The specific graphic design of the NAZI swastika is not religious. It symbolizes the fascist movement started by Hitler in Nazi Germany.
To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism. It is a common sight on temples or houses in India or Indonesia. Swastikas also have an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures.
The famous archeologist Heinrich Schlieman discovered the hooked cross on the site of ancient Troy. He connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and speculated that it was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors.”

In the beginning of the twentieth century the swastika was widely used in Europe. It had numerous meanings, the most common being a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness.

However, the work of Schliemann soon was taken up by "völkisch" movements, for whom the swastika was a symbol of “Aryan identity” and German nationalist pride...

The Nazi party, however, was not the only party to use the swastika in Germany. After World War I, a number of far-right European nationalist movements adopted the swastika. As a symbol, it became associated with the idea of a racially “pure” state.

Many people are aware of this, and Jingthing must be because so many have posted it before (I mostly stopped informing people of this about 10 years ago because it seems so cliche). The fact is )and I assume this is what JT is alluding to) the NAZI swastika is distinct - 45 degree axis, on a white circle surrounded by red - and even absent those details, context matters and has obvious connotations.
By the way, if your post consists of a C&P, you should credit the source lest it appear that you are trying to take credit for someone else's scholarship.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453

I was not trying to take credit for someone else's scholarship in my previous post...
But if you add again 45° axis from the original sign , like you just did..., you will have again the same original swastika...

And if you turn it upside down you will have the same result.

I've no problem with people who try to describe this symbol with their own words.

But that people use it nowadays without knowing the real origin like the OP is simply sad...

I didn't add it - what an odd and offensive thing to say. Yes, with a 45 degree axis, it is still a swastika. This is obvious and indeed I never once suggested it is called something else or becomes a new thing entirely if it is used in the way I describe. however, youleft out the white lozenge and the red background. And the reference to context.

Edited July 23, 2013 by metisdead
Original post in quoted posts removed to correct the maximum allowed number of quoted posts to be posted, i.e. a post without messed up quotes.

ABCer · July 23, 2013

Is there a world outside of Thailand for Thais?

Ever meet a Jew in Thailand?

Come to the Phitsanulok area and you can meet one: ME.

Although my complete family was murdered in WWII (I was the only survivor) I cannot be very angry regarding this subject. I quote Baboon's wise words: "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fail to contend".

For me it is a little to easy when people say that Thais do not know and do not respect our history and culture. In general this might be true, but I give you an example to think about:

My Thai wife is far from stupid but in the beginning of our relationship I found out that she had never heard about van Gogh, Rembrandt and so on. My first reaction was: "that is impossible".

Later I asked myself: "Do YOU know any Asian painter from i.e. van Gogh's period?" I have to admit that I did not. Two possibilities: They don't exist, or I am ignorant.

I once was spat on and trampled over on this very site by some overzealous members for asking a simple question:

"Could anybody show to me the significant item of Art contributed by 'The Great Thai Culture' to the World Heritage - in architecture, music, painting, literature, science etc.?"

The best answer was calling me a snob.

From there I concluded - The more we talk about something, the less there is to talk about. 'Thai Culture' is talked about by every uneducated Thai. Educated ones have plenty of other things to talk about.

By now I have learned that I'm a snob, a Thai basher, an enemy of Thailand, have no right to be here etc.

I almost feel sorry for myself...

Jingthing · July 25, 2013

OK, here's a new to one.

To me.

Many people say it would be a good thing for Thai people to become more educated about Hitler, Nazis, WW2, the holocaust, etc.

I agree.

Well what do you make of this?

Today on a Pattaya baht bus sighted a Thai teen wearing a very loud bright yellow t-shirt.

On the top large text: ADOLF HITLER

middle graphic: Nazi Swastika

On the bottom large text: HOLOCAUST

Is this part of the new "education" program?

No I didn't confront the wearer.

Supposing this becomes a trend, with Thai teens wearing this kind of t-shirt en masse, especially this holocaust wrinkle, what does it mean?

Is it still just fashion? Is it teens rebellion, shocking adults for fun? Or what? I don't get it.

I actually was a bit shocked so if that's the goal, it worked on me.

I had to wonder, yes Hitler, Nazis, Holocaust, I get the connection, what is the message of the t-shirt? Pro, con, or nothing?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Jingthing

SteeleJoe · July 25, 2013

OK, here's a new to one.

To me.

Many people say it would be a good thing for Thai people to become more educated about Hitler, Nazis, WW2, the holocaust, etc.

I agree.

Well what do you make of this?

Today on a Pattaya baht bus sighted a Thai teen wearing a very loud bright yellow t-shirt.

On the top large text: ADOLF HITLER

middle graphic: Nazi Swastika

On the bottom large text: HOLOCAUST

Is this part of the new "education" program?

No I didn't confront the wearer.

Supposing this becomes a trend, with Thai teens wearing this kind of t-shirt en masse, especially this holocaust wrinkle, what does it mean?

Is it still just fashion? Is it teens rebellion, shocking adults for fun? Or what? I don't get it.

I actually was a bit shocked so if that's the goal, it worked on me.

I had to wonder, yes Hitler, Nazis, Holocaust, I get the connection, what is the message of the t-shirt? Pro, con, or nothing?

My first thought - and possibly all the thought I'm going to give to it - is that I have seen Thai people wear the most breathtakingly inappropriate T shirts over the years (and I mean stuff they absolutely did NOT understand), so I'm not convinced there was any trout at all to any sort of meaning. "Aesthetically pleasing colors and graphic design. English words. Yeah, I'll have that..."

Jingthing · July 25, 2013

My first thought - and possibly all the thought I'm going to give to it - is that I have seen Thai people wear the most breathtakingly inappropriate T shirts over the years (and I mean stuff they absolutely did NOT understand), so I'm not convinced there was any trout at all to any sort of meaning. "Aesthetically pleasing colors and graphic design. English words. Yeah, I'll have that..."

Quite possibly I do agree.

However, if this becomes a big trend, particularly with this holocaust angle, I won't be so sure.

BTW, it took me a while to read the shirt and when I did, I had a bit of a shock reaction to it.

Not because the text wasn't huge, it was HUGE, but because of the viewing angle and that I'm not always bothering reading people's t-shirts.

I noticed the wearer noticed that and didn't seem to be surprised.

So I think that one wearer knew there was something more to his shirt than fashion.

Pattaya is a city with many foreigners that I think would be similarly shocked as me.

I can imagine as a teen it would even be fun to watch foreigners freak out.

I also have to admit that graphically the t-shirt was quite artful if you ignore the words and symbol.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Jingthing

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