Abhisit favourable to people's amnesty bill

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POLITICS
Abhisit favourable to people's amnesty bill
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday expressed support for the amnesty bill proposed by relatives of victims of the 2010 political turmoil.

"I am discussing with others in my party whether the opposition can accept a situation whereby the government withdraws all versions of the amnesty bills that have been already proposed to the Parliament, and instead brings this 'people's version' as a model for discussion," he said

"The core principle covers all groups of people but allows action to be taken against those who burned down the city halls and those who violated Article 112 (of the penal code, the lese majeste law), I think we can move on with this," he added.

Payao Akahad, mother of Kamolket a paramedic who was killed in the political turmoil, and Punsak Srithep, father of 17yearold Samapun who was killed in crossfire, on Tuesday submitted the group's version of an amnesty bill to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra via her deputy Phongthep Thepkanjana.

The draft proposes amnesty for the people who only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies. However, legal action would still be taken to those who had committed crimes during the period.


-- The Nation 2013-07-18

[gl555]

Difference between Thaksin and Abhisit.

Abhisit doesn't mind amnesty for everyone, including the 'oppressed' red shirts who hate him but doesn't want amnesty for himself.

Thaksin wants amnesty for himself and if everyone else gets amnesty too, who cares as long as he gets to come back home.

[hellodolly]

I would feel better about it if they had included Thaksins name on it as the instigator of the whole thing.

I would not like to see any bill that would give him any room to shift blame.

[bigbamboo]

Difference between Thaksin and Abhisit.

Abhisit doesn't mind amnesty for everyone, including the 'oppressed' red shirts who hate him but doesn't want amnesty for himself.

Thaksin wants amnesty for himself and if everyone else gets amnesty too, who cares as long as he gets to come back home.

Can't argue with that.

Another difference between them is that one is really just a bit of a pussy whilst the other really is a complete.... erm....cult?

Edited July 18, 2013 by bigbamboo

[TomTao]

Lets see if the government goes with what the people want, (you know, the numbers on the tally board who voted) or if they stick with the unidirectional amnesty push that is designed to benefit one above all others.

[monkeycountry]

Hahaha, clever move by Mr. Abhisit. Now the PTP government has a chance to get the reconciliation and amnesty they claim they want for the Thai people, proposed by the very people they claim to want to help, except it will not cover their real "secret" goal, amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. And if the PTP support the bill and if goes through in parliament, then they will have exhausted that option for getting Mr. Thaksin home.

I predict a number of PTP MPs will come forward with a diversion, claiming that AV is not sincere, so there is no reason for them to do as AV suggests. This is also what will be told in all the red shirt villages and on red shirt radio, so this is what the red shirts will believe.

[Robby nz]

"I am discussing with others in my party whether the opposition can accept a situation whereby the government withdraws all versions of the amnesty bills that have been already proposed to the Parliament, and instead brings this 'people's version' as a model for discussion," he said

A cunning move which I am sure PT will decry with vigor.

However in doing so they will also be seen to be putting down the peoples amnesty bill in favor of their own 'bring the boss home free' ones.

The draft proposes amnesty for the people who only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies. However, legal action would still be taken to those who had committed crimes during the period.

I have always wondered just how many people need amnesty that only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies and if indeed there are any in prison who did not commit other crimes.

From what I saw when the clean out was complete the "ordinary protesters" were treated very fairly.

Fed watered, given health checks then sent home on buses free of charge.

I seem to remember these "ordinary protesters" had quite a few problems as they had little or no money as they had not been paid as promised and many had their ID cards taken from them by the reds to prevent them from leaving.

[lemoncake]

Not quite sure why some of you think Thaksin should be included or excluded.

He is totally different matter, even though he is behind most of the trouble, he is convicted of totally different crimes.

If he was any smarter, he should have done his few years, which no doubt would have been served in full luxury and carried on raping the country

[whybother]

Not quite sure why some of you think Thaksin should be included or excluded.

He is totally different matter, even though he is behind most of the trouble, he is convicted of totally different crimes.

If he was any smarter, he should have done his few years, which no doubt would have been served in full luxury and carried on raping the country

It seems most of the PTP and the red shirts think he should be included.

[khunken]

When I saw this amnesty bill, I thought it hit just about the right note on who should be eligible for amnesty. I'm pleased that Abhisit seems to agree.

This will not please PTP as it shoots an arrow through the Thaksin amnesty that they want. I anticipate some arm twisting to come to drop it or merge it with one of the amnesty for all but Abhisit & Suthep proposals.

We'll have to wait until the Skyped instructions arrive.

[lemoncake]

Not quite sure why some of you think Thaksin should be included or excluded.

He is totally different matter, even though he is behind most of the trouble, he is convicted of totally different crimes.

If he was any smarter, he should have done his few years, which no doubt would have been served in full luxury and carried on raping the country

It seems most of the PTP and the red shirts think he should be included.

But they also supposedly fighting against the rich, just coincidentally for the sake of super rich.

[hellodolly]

Lets see if the government goes with what the people want, (you know, the numbers on the tally board who voted) or if they stick with the unidirectional amnesty push that is designed to benefit one above all others.

Well here we have families of some of the deceased who don't want Thaksin to be white washed.

In the elections 52% of the people voted against Thaksin

I would say the people want to see him pay for his crimes.

A cunning move which I am sure PT will decry with vigor.

However in doing so they will also be seen to be putting down the peoples amnesty bill in favor of their own 'bring the boss home free' ones.

The draft proposes amnesty for the people who only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies. However, legal action would still be taken to those who had committed crimes during the period.

I have always wondered just how many people need amnesty that only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies and if indeed there are any in prison who did not commit other crimes.

From what I saw when the clean out was complete the "ordinary protesters" were treated very fairly.

Fed watered, given health checks then sent home on buses free of charge.

I seem to remember these "ordinary protesters" had quite a few problems as they had little or no money as they had not been paid as promised and many had their ID cards taken from them by the reds to prevent them from leaving.

Yes Thaksin had cut off their pay checks and they had no means of support. The Government treated them with dignity cleaned them up fed them and gave them free medicals. The red shirts here in Chiang Mai were so happy to have them back that they threatened to bomb to Malls and in fact burnt up a fire engine. They sure taught us a lesson. Don't trust a red shirt no matter how good you are to them they will still stab you in the back if they think they can get away with it.

Not quite sure why some of you think Thaksin should be included or excluded.

He is totally different matter, even though he is behind most of the trouble, he is convicted of totally different crimes.

If he was any smarter, he should have done his few years, which no doubt would have been served in full luxury and carried on raping the country

How can you say the man who paid for the whole thing masterminded it (poorly) and encouraged them to break the law should not be included with the people he was paying to do the deed?

[capt_canada42]

yah Thank Sin he needs to pay pay pay pay and pay

[lemoncake]

Lets see if the government goes with what the people want, (you know, the numbers on the tally board who voted) or if they stick with the unidirectional amnesty push that is designed to benefit one above all others.

Well here we have families of some of the deceased who don't want Thaksin to be white washed.

In the elections 52% of the people voted against Thaksin

I would say the people want to see him pay for his crimes.

A cunning move which I am sure PT will decry with vigor.

However in doing so they will also be seen to be putting down the peoples amnesty bill in favor of their own 'bring the boss home free' ones.

The draft proposes amnesty for the people who only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies. However, legal action would still be taken to those who had committed crimes during the period.

I have always wondered just how many people need amnesty that only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies and if indeed there are any in prison who did not commit other crimes.

From what I saw when the clean out was complete the "ordinary protesters" were treated very fairly.

Fed watered, given health checks then sent home on buses free of charge.

I seem to remember these "ordinary protesters" had quite a few problems as they had little or no money as they had not been paid as promised and many had their ID cards taken from them by the reds to prevent them from leaving.

Yes Thaksin had cut off their pay checks and they had no means of support. The Government treated them with dignity cleaned them up fed them and gave them free medicals. The red shirts here in Chiang Mai were so happy to have them back that they threatened to bomb to Malls and in fact burnt up a fire engine. They sure taught us a lesson. Don't trust a red shirt no matter how good you are to them they will still stab you in the back if they think they can get away with it.

Not quite sure why some of you think Thaksin should be included or excluded.

He is totally different matter, even though he is behind most of the trouble, he is convicted of totally different crimes.

If he was any smarter, he should have done his few years, which no doubt would have been served in full luxury and carried on raping the country

How can you say the man who paid for the whole thing masterminded it (poorly) and encouraged them to break the law should not be included with the people he was paying to do the deed?

Because he was convicted way prior to that on totally different matters.

By that time he was already a fugitive on the run, so while amnesty for 2010 may be applied to him, but it does not excuse previous conviction

[tingtongteesood]

Regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on, I have to say I have respect for the way Abhisit has been handling the situation since the corrupt powers that be tried to have him labeled as a murderer. In most countries in the world, the 'crackdown' would have happened 10 times sooner with 10 times the injuries, in my opinion the Red Shirt idiots got off really light..

[Roadman]

Hahaha, clever move by Mr. Abhisit. Now the PTP government has a chance to get the reconciliation and amnesty they claim they want for the Thai people, proposed by the very people they claim to want to help, except it will not cover their real "secret" goal, amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. And if the PTP support the bill and if goes through in parliament, then they will have exhausted that option for getting Mr. Thaksin home.

I predict a number of PTP MPs will come forward with a diversion, claiming that AV is not sincere, so there is no reason for them to do as AV suggests. This is also what will be told in all the red shirt villages and on red shirt radio, so this is what the red shirts will believe.

Very clever. It also shows to the families of those that lost their lives that he has the sincerity of his convictions. Those may be a few compared to the millions of Isaanite ignorant brought votes but it is the likes of Khun Kamolket's mum who's voice is being, and will continue to be heard in the news and more importantly in the thai courts who Khun Abhisit has to win.

Again RIP Khun Kamolket. The sincerity of her convictions are not forgotten, thanks to her mum and will hopefully help bring justice within this whole mess.

[Roadman]

Deleted due to yet another double post from no TV message board response.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Roadman

[GeorgeO]

Hahaha, clever move by Mr. Abhisit. Now the PTP government has a chance to get the reconciliation and amnesty they claim they want for the Thai people, proposed by the very people they claim to want to help, except it will not cover their real "secret" goal, amnesty for Mr. Thaksin. And if the PTP support the bill and if goes through in parliament, then they will have exhausted that option for getting Mr. Thaksin home.

I predict a number of PTP MPs will come forward with a diversion, claiming that AV is not sincere, so there is no reason for them to do as AV suggests. This is also what will be told in all the red shirt villages and on red shirt radio, so this is what the red shirts will believe.

You are absolutely spot on. No doubt there will be frantic attempts by PTP members to come up with diversionary tactics aimed at discrediting Abhisit's support for the proposed bill, although it is difficult to see how they will frame their lies responses.

What has, however, become very clear over recent months, is that there are those in the Red Shirt ranks who are no longer prepared to simply acquiesce to the bullshit that they are constantly being fed by their deposed leader, and this response by Abhisit goes straight to the heart of the issue.

What I believe Abhisit recognizes is that the Red Shirts will be strongly motivated to push this bill through anyway, even if the PTP does somehow manage to cast some doubt on his intentions, but any attempts by the PTP to see the bill quashed will simply underline what the true intentions of their party have been all along, the return of the feurher.

The PTP is doing a fantastic job of painting itself into several corners with regard to a number of current contentious issues, but I think they will have a bit of a job getting out of this particular mess. They no longer have the blind support of the masses, and this one issue could undermine it completely.

[mangos]

How does passing this draft conflict with PTP's wanting to bring Thaksin home?

"The core principle covers all groups of people but allows action to be taken against those who burned down the city halls and those who violated Article 112 (of the penal code, the lese majeste law), I think we can move on with this," he added.

There are only 2 kinds of people who will be convicted in this draft

1. those who burned down city halls

2. those who violated the lese majeste law

Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste.

PTP can turn their back on a very small number of people who did the actual torching and still be able to convince the masses that PTP supports the 'innocent' redshirts.

It also smoothes the way for Thaksin to be cleared of protest-related crimes he was charged with, which only brings him one step closer to coming home.

Edited July 19, 2013 by mangos

[Neilly]

Difference between Thaksin and Abhisit.

Abhisit doesn't mind amnesty for everyone, including the 'oppressed' red shirts who hate him but doesn't want amnesty for himself.

Thaksin wants amnesty for himself and if everyone else gets amnesty too, who cares as long as he gets to come back home.

+1

I like this part from the OP

"The core principle covers all groups of people but allows action to be taken against those who burned down the city halls and those who violated Article 112 (of the penal code, the lese majeste law), I think we can move on with this," he added.

[jbrain]

How does passing this draft conflict with PTP's wanting to bring Thaksin home?

"The core principle covers all groups of people but allows action to be taken against those who burned down the city halls and those who violated Article 112 (of the penal code, the lese majeste law), I think we can move on with this," he added.

There are only 2 kinds of people who will be convicted in this draft

1. those who burned down city halls

2. those who violated the lese majeste law

Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste.

PTP can turn their back on a very small number of people who did the actual torching and still be able to convince the masses that PTP supports the 'innocent' redshirts.

It also smoothes the way for Thaksin to be cleared of protest-related crimes he was charged with, which only brings him one step closer to coming home.

You should read again.

Both groups you mention are NOT excused

[jbrain]

How does passing this draft conflict with PTP's wanting to bring Thaksin home?

"The core principle covers all groups of people but allows action to be taken against those who burned down the city halls and those who violated Article 112 (of the penal code, the lese majeste law), I think we can move on with this," he added.

There are only 2 kinds of people who will be convicted in this draft

1. those who burned down city halls

2. those who violated the lese majeste law

Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste.

PTP can turn their back on a very small number of people who did the actual torching and still be able to convince the masses that PTP supports the 'innocent' redshirts.

It also smoothes the way for Thaksin to be cleared of protest-related crimes he was charged with, which only brings him one step closer to coming home.

You should read again.

Both groups you mention are NOT excused

[mikemac]

"Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste."..................................................

Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste.

[hellodolly]

How does passing this draft conflict with PTP's wanting to bring Thaksin home?

"The core principle covers all groups of people but allows action to be taken against those who burned down the city halls and those who violated Article 112 (of the penal code, the lese majeste law), I think we can move on with this," he added.

There are only 2 kinds of people who will be convicted in this draft

1. those who burned down city halls

2. those who violated the lese majeste law

Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste.

PTP can turn their back on a very small number of people who did the actual torching and still be able to convince the masses that PTP supports the 'innocent' redshirts.

It also smoothes the way for Thaksin to be cleared of protest-related crimes he was charged with, which only brings him one step closer to coming home.

You should read again.

Both groups you mention are NOT excused

The article goes on to say

"The draft proposes amnesty for the people who only violated the State of Emergency by joining in political rallies."

That leaves a lot of red shirts still open for prosecution.

[hellodolly]

"Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste."..................................................

Thaksin neither torched the buildings directly nor said any lese majeste.

Spot on.

He just paid for it and encouraged the people on his payroll to do it.

I wonder where that bill would leave the red shirts who received money for being a part of the protest. The ones that Thaksin cut off after it got through his thick head that he was not going to win. All a lot of them did was build barricades and cook for the ones doing the killing and burning. A lot of them Had to rely on Abhist to treat them humanely and feed them clean them up and pay their way home.

Would receiving money not make them a part of the damage done?