'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[Publicus]

I've given the thread a few moments thought now.

I'm hoping this thread might show some understanding and empathy for Trayvon and for his family, friends - and to include the larger picture of young black males in the United States whose legacy is 200 years of slavery and another hundred years of Jim Crow laws. Destroyed families from their outset.

However, I see my worst fears of this thread topic are already being realized. The other side is in fact the other side, i.e., it hasn't any feeling for a kid who got very nervous about some little white sh*t following him in silence with eyeballs fixed on him.

The other side is devoid of human feeling, sympathy, caring for the black kid, the deceased. Can't put themselves in the other fellow's shoes and haven't the slightest interest in trying to do so. To them Martin is bad, Zimmerman is good. White is right and if you're black get to the back.

The SOS is polluting this thread too.

Empathy for a hood that attacked a man that just happened to be carrying a weapon to defend himself? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Thanks for that.

I'll stop now and I can tell this thread will digress quickly and I want to stay out of the ban zone. One cannot debate with a person that has a 180 degree diametrically opposite view of reality without becoming incensed with the stupidity of the premise for the argument. Much like wrestling with pigs. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.

And it begs the question, why are we all being lead by so few? Why aren't we realizing that we are the puppets who are allowing ourselves to have our arms jerked when the strings are pulled?

How is it possible that we allow ourselves to get sucked in, and buy into this entire group think which is more corrosive and farther from any truth or honesty that defines us as human beings?

Human beings are supposed to be truthful and honest. That is what makes us who we are. When we make laws that forbid truth and honesty, then we begin to become puppets. Those who do not wish to become puppets seek alternative routes and form their own sub cultures which are not productive for all, and rather create wedges that divide our humanity and make us less than what we could be.

You need to be the keynote speaker at the next retreat of the Republican party Members of Congress, both the House and the Senate.

I'm not optimistic however your message would be comprehended, much less respected. It was the Republican party leader of the Senate who said during the first year of Prez Obama's first term that his 100% purpose to the next election was to see that Prez Obama didn't get reelected. The Republican leader of the Senate failed but not without one hellova sustained, all out effort.

[Baloo22]

These comments were made by the same clueless clown that, when presented with several incidents of misconduct in his administration, offers the excuse "The first I knew about it was from the same news reports as you." His big mouth and poor judgement has already caused serious problems for the prosecution in a number of prosecutions of military personnel for sexual assault crimes. There is little reason to listen to such an incompetent boob.

[F430murci]

These comments were made by the same clueless clown that, when presented with several incidents of misconduct in his administration, offers the excuse "The first I knew about it was from the same news reports as you." His big mouth and poor judgement has already caused serious problems for the prosecution in a number of prosecutions of military personnel for sexual assault crimes. There is little reason to listen to such an incompetent boob.

The reality that no one ignorant enough to buy into this rhetoric realizes is that these alleged bad laws benefit minorities more than whites.

People calling for abolishment of 5th because of this case do not realize that the vast majority of criminal cases involving the 5th are minorities with prior serious criminal records (felony convictions) seeking to keep convictions from the jury. Unless Zimmerman had a felony conviction within last 10 years, his prior issues were not coming into evidence even if he did testify.

I will say that a lot of white defendants that have no prior felony conviction take the stand against lawyer's because they think they are smart and like to hear themselves talk. This never works out well for them. Ask Enron defendants.

As I showed with stats before, abolishing either stand your ground or self defense will impact minorities more than whites. Nevertheless, NAACP, Holder and Bama got to have something to base their bs rhetoric on. They are manipulative, dishonest and deceptive. I supported Bama, voted for him and I initially believed him in IRS issues. Listening to his deception and manipulation regarding issues in this case that I actually know something about cause me to doubt his version in every other recent scandal.

Edited July 21, 2013 by F430murci

[OldChinaHam]

Zimmerman could NOT have been me.

I do not understand this type of individual.

He is like the misguided rugged, paranoiac, individualistic ones that we wish we did not see every day.

It is too bad that too much in America still encourages racism.

But not too surprising,

Considering where we come from,

The primate side of life.

[kikoman]

You throw him facts, he ignores them and continues to spew the same BS. You rebut his statements as false, he ignores them and continues to spew the same BS. It's pretty typical of older people with memory problems. He claims to have witnessed the birth of civil rights in America.

In his Doctors report of the injuries he claimed were caused by Trayvon as a result of his medical treatment it is in one of my last post. His Private doctor submitted that information!

The Law aimed at disarming legal prescribed Anti-depressant drug user is introduced in the US Congress to address the rights of 49 million American's that are taking or have taken such drugs, The State of New York decided to go ahead on its own and implement the law.

Cheers:

Dude did you read my response to your continued misstatements? I dumbfounded as to why your continued misstatements of fact and law are permitted to persist. It reduces this site to nothing more than a platform for mental deficients spreading extremists and paranoid delusions.

ABC news dated May 15,2012

Can Google title below:

George Zimmerman's Medical Report Sheds light on injuries after Trayvon Martin's Shooting ABC News

"According to the report prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazpan medication, that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients".

Google Document with title on line 3,

What Serino wrote in his signed Affidavit Recommendation to charge Zimmerman with Manslaughter.Attachment #1,

And The Motion Juror B37 agent statement violates Attachment #2

I need from you documentation that Trayvon Had a police record and anything more than his 3 suspensions from school, Documents not stories.

I need your documentation that Trayvon had any specialized combat training anything other than 4 school yard fights. That would make him a better fighter than Zimmerman's Year of intensive MMA training.

If you can't deliver no more answers, and only question though you!!

Cheers:

Investigator Zimmerman was not at a physical disadvantage to Trayvon Martin theGrio.htm

051013_motion_to_limit_opinion.pdf

[kikoman]

No one has rebutted any of my points, you come off with you diarrhea of the mouth BS, I refuted your BS , are you intelligent enough to do the same. You guy now need to put up or shut up, or show all on the thread that you do not have a clue,..

I not only witness it, i WAS PART OF IT!!

Cheers:

[mopar71]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

I think I agree with this notion, and I also think that demonizing honesty is also a tragedy. Honesty may not be right or wrong, but demonizing it and forbidding it from discussion an all accounts, and instead allowing limited honesty is detrimental.

Honesty is the first step to the deepest understanding of issues understanding.

Part of the game of politics is to get the other side to say or do something that you can use against them later. That makes it difficult for politicians from opposing political parties to appear to agree or go along with each other. Sure, we say that we want our politicians to work together, but then on election day they often get punished for it.

[JLCrab]

I see all these nested quotes and that 'you have not responded to my post post in opposition to your post contesting my previous post' and I'm just glad that I brought 3 - 500 count bottles of REAL aspirin from Walmart (not SaRa) back from the USA this last trip.

[Publicus]

So Helen Thomas died today......I was just reading her Wiki page, here's just about the first quote.

"We were never hyphenated as Arab-Americans. We were American, and I have always rejected the hyphen and I believe all assimilated immigrants should not be designated ethnically. Or separated, of course, by race, or creed either. These are trends that ever try to divide us as a people."

Awesome, no need for anti discrimination laws anymore because we are all Americans and Americans is not a protected classification in America. Oh wait, Bama still refers to people by race so we need him to stop with dividing people by race. It's unhealthy.

Man, you've really become obsessive about the president.

How could someone like yourself, not a stupid man, suggest something so moronic as the president somehow being the only one to observe racial difference - or even that he is a significant reason why such differences are commonly observed?

You're a smart guy but even the smartest among us sometimes overlook the obvious - he's a lawyer so he's liable to change sides at the drop of a dime.

[Publicus]

The frustrating part to me . . .

Not sure why I bother, but the true racists are those that believe the message to our children here is to not trust non blacks as opposed to instructing our kids not to commit violent acts toward other humans regardless of their race.

The racists are those that bash the legal system as being racially biased, bash jurors they don't know, bash the prosecution for not making big deal out of gun control laws, accuse the Florida system of some how being impacted by an old insignificant white trial level judge from a far away state, and on and on simply because something did not turn out the way they had planned or hoped based on PERSONAL reasons.

The racist are those that believe when things don't go their way it is because of white Anerica.

The racists are those that speak out in a case like this, but care little when a non black person is targeted by a black person because of their race.

The racists are those that refuse to address the true problem, black on black crime and the disproportionately high number of crimes committed by non whites and instead complain that the system is geared to lock up blacks.

The racists are those that believe a non black should be targeted for a hate crime or revenge motives because something did not go their way.

The racists are those that believe violence is ever okay and acceptable when directed toward a non black under any circumstances including a jury's decision to acquit.

The racists are those that focus on nothing but racial divide and racial animosity when something does not go as planned or turn out the way they had hoped.

Look, we're all born with racism in our genes. The trick is to, first, realize the fact. Second, to identify racism in its manifestations. The real key is for each of us to confront our own racism, which exists in all humans everywhere, and to work hard all the time to overcome and subdue - as much as possible to purge - the racism that is inherent in all human beings.

Some do that better than others. Many never even make it to the first step.

The least effective at it are those who get on their soapbox to scream and holler about other people's racism.

[canman]

That is the same thing I thought as I heard him give the speech. Yes, Trayvon could have been Obama if Obama attacked and badly beat a man for virtually nothing. The reason that the jury found Zimmerman not guilty is because the evidence left no choice other than self-defence.

No, the Stand Your Ground Law left the jury no choice but to find him 'not guilty'.

Fact is, due to George Zimmerman's actions, T. Martin is now dead.

And no one, except George Zimmerman, is alive to know what happened. Love it how millions of his defenders know that poor Georgie was an innocent victim of the 'boy in the hood'.

This trial had nothing to do with "stand your ground" It was not any part of Zimmermans defence. Zimmerman was found not guilty because he used his right to defend himself in the face of an attack which could have resulted in death or serious injury.

[metisdead]

This forum is not a court of law. The court in Florida decided the case and made a ruling. Rather than contesting the evidence and court ruling here, perhaps somebody should take their case to court in the USA to seek justice instead of trying to overturn the verdict here. Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed and will continue to be removed.

[Ulysses G.]

Zimmerman has been proven an habitual liar, Yet the all white jury believed his story was creditable!

It might be because he had the hell beaten out of him, while Trayvon did not have a mark on his body - other than the gunshot that put a stop to the vicious beating. That, and the fact that - according to the experts - the evidence was consistant with Zimmerman's story. The FACTS were on his side.

[JLCrab]

To quote the late Rodney King during the 1992 Los Angeles riots that followed the acquittal of the officers accused of beating Mr. King in which 53 people were killed and over two thousand were injured:

"Can we all get along?

[geriatrickid]

I think the drugs being taken by Zimmerman may go beyond anti-depressants, but I will let those with more clinical experience answer that.

I would love to find something on his mental health from a credible source. All I can find on Google is thousands of left-wing blogs repeating the same, exact, unsubstantiated nonsense. IMO, the fact that the prosecution did not even try to question his soundness of mind - with all the other mud slinging that they did - says a lot.

Zimmerman's medical history was not considered legally relevant and much of the information was precluded from use.

In any case, would you expect a prosecutor to provide the defense with an additional argument that Zimmerman's mental abilities were impaired because of his use of prescribed powerful medications?

Because you have to have a competent medical expert to opine as such matters and the prosecutors apparently could NOT obtain a competent medical expert to opine as to such matters.

Please educate yourself before making the same ridiculous statement for the umpteenth time about judicial error or excluding proof.

Oh, and here I was thinking that because the police neglected to test Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol immediately after the event, the prosecution was unable to enter Zimmerman's medication history at trial. Silly me.

As you are a lawyer with extensive criminal litigation experience, I will defer to your knowledge. Correct me if I have this wrong, but if the police do not take samples, then it becomes near impossible to establish an accused's physical condition in respect to drugs, at trial, right? If the drug assays were not done, then the use of the psychiatric illness medications have no relevance at trial, right?

Edited July 22, 2013 by geriatrickid

[Berkshire]

Even John McCain (who rarely agrees with the President on anything) supports the President's speech:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/21/mccain-calls-for-review-of-stand-your-ground-laws/?hpt=hp_t3

My only comment is that everyone needs to recognize that there are diverging perspectives on this, and whites need to understand why so many blacks are angered and hurt by this decision. Just saying "get over it" and "no need to bring up race" is somewhat insensitive and counter productive. Clearly, race relations still has a ways to go in America.

[Jingthing]

This trial had nothing to do with "stand your ground" It was not any part of Zimmermans defence. Zimmerman was found not guilty because he used his right to defend himself in the face of an attack which could have resulted in death or serious injury.

Actually Stand Your Ground language was read to the jury in the all important jury instructions. So it's incorrect to assert Stand Your Ground law was not any part of the trial.

[gl555]

It can cause side effects in 10% of patients but once again, you don't know nor do you have evidence that it did affect Zimmerman.

Your favorite Serino and his affidavit has credibility issues since according to the FBI report, he publicly stated that they did not have enough evidence to file charges.

Zimmerman's MMA instructor testified in court that Zimmerman was 'non athlethic', 'soft' and a '1-1.5 out of 10' as a fighter.

You can dig up all the documents from Google and post them here and keep repeating the same 'evidence' a million times over. You're still wrong and I will just continue poking holes in your repetitive arguments.

You throw him facts, he ignores them and continues to spew the same BS. You rebut his statements as false, he ignores them and continues to spew the same BS. It's pretty typical of older people with memory problems. He claims to have witnessed the birth of civil rights in America.

In his Doctors report of the injuries he claimed were caused by Trayvon as a result of his medical treatment it is in one of my last post. His Private doctor submitted that information!

The Law aimed at disarming legal prescribed Anti-depressant drug user is introduced in the US Congress to address the rights of 49 million American's that are taking or have taken such drugs, The State of New York decided to go ahead on its own and implement the law.

Cheers:

Dude did you read my response to your continued misstatements? I dumbfounded as to why your continued misstatements of fact and law are permitted to persist. It reduces this site to nothing more than a platform for mental deficients spreading extremists and paranoid delusions.

ABC news dated May 15,2012

Can Google title below:

George Zimmerman's Medical Report Sheds light on injuries after Trayvon Martin's Shooting ABC News

"According to the report prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazpan medication, that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients".

Google Document with title on line 3,

What Serino wrote in his signed Affidavit Recommendation to charge Zimmerman with Manslaughter.Attachment #1,

And The Motion Juror B37 agent statement violates Attachment #2

I need from you documentation that Trayvon Had a police record and anything more than his 3 suspensions from school, Documents not stories.

I need your documentation that Trayvon had any specialized combat training anything other than 4 school yard fights. That would make him a better fighter than Zimmerman's Year of intensive MMA training.

If you can't deliver no more answers, and only question though you!!

Cheers:

Edited July 22, 2013 by gl555

[Ulysses G.]

This trial had nothing to do with "stand your ground" It was not any part of Zimmermans defence. Zimmerman was found not guilty because he used his right to defend himself in the face of an attack which could have resulted in death or serious injury.

Actually Stand Your Ground language was read to the jury in the all important jury instructions. So it's incorrect to assert Stand Your Ground law was not any part of the trial.

Wrong. This is more spin from the blogs. The judge's instructions are based on common law, not Stand Your Ground.

[Jingthing]

This trial had nothing to do with "stand your ground" It was not any part of Zimmermans defence. Zimmerman was found not guilty because he used his right to defend himself in the face of an attack which could have resulted in death or serious injury.

Actually Stand Your Ground language was read to the jury in the all important jury instructions. So it's incorrect to assert Stand Your Ground law was not any part of the trial.

Wrong. This is more spin from the blogs. The judge's instructions are based on common law, not Stand Your Ground.

Seriously, you might want to rethink that dogma.

Central Georgia, hub of left wing blogs.

http://www.macon.com/2013/07/16/2559206/jurors-in-zimmerman-trial-struggled.html

MIAMI — Jurors discussed Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground self-defense law before rendering their not-guilty verdict in George Zimmerman's trial, one of the jurors told CNN's Anderson Cooper.

...

"Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground," she said. "He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right."

Juror B37

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[Credo]

I believe he referred to the wording of the instructions coming from the Stand Your Ground law.

[Jingthing]

The thing to understand here is that Stand Your Ground laws do not exist in some segregated section of Florida's criminal code. They are not bracketed off from the rest of Florida's "standard" self-defense laws. Stand Your Ground laws are integral to the very meaning of self-defense in the state.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/how-stand-your-ground-relates-to-george-zimmerman/277829/

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/21/3513024/marc-caputo-even-without-stand.html

George Zimmerman’s not-guilty verdict had nothing to do with Stand Your Ground, right?

Wrong.

The wording of the self-defense law appeared in the jury instructions, and it was discussed by jurors, the defense and prosecutors in court

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/21/3513024/marc-caputo-even-without-stand.html#storylink=cpy

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[HeijoshinCool]

News from the States wasn't of much interest to me when I lived there, and still isn't. In other words, I'm not taking sides because I don't have sufficient information.

But I have read a few articles on this case, including Obama's comments, and I have yet to find any reliable source that provides any insight as to what Zimmerman did or said that indicates he picked on Martin because of his race.

So I'm wondering, is there a shred of reasonable evidence of any kind that race was involved? Was it introduced at trial?

The killer had a long history of repeated calls to 911 about young black men and boys. Generally, false alarms.

There had been a string of burglaries in his neighborhood and my understanding is the perps were generally young black males.

The killer saw another black boy "stranger" and jumped to conclusions.

It's profiling. Some may say justified. Is that racism? Who knows. Profiling is not a crime at least from a civilian. Racist thought is not a crime. MURDER is. The reason Zimmerman will be despised for the rest of his life, and rightly so, is the inconvenient corpse that he created, and so many people don't believe he HAD to create.

Thank you for not only answering, but in some detail. Wonder why no one else did?

Anyway, nothing concrete, because we don't know if any of his calls, though seriously over the top, also reported suspicious behavior by other races. Apparently neither the prosecution nor the defense took a stab at that.

But, by your understanding, numerous burglaries were perpetrated by black males. So really, it may or may not have been the race of the deceased that brought Zimmerman outside, it may have been Zimmerman's being a wanna-be cop, combined with being tired of his neighbors being burglarized.

Should a neighborhood watch volunteer, whose neighbors have been victims of crimes by blacks, upon learning someone suspicious was black, have gone home, afraid of being accused of racism?

Sorry, Jingthing, I'm still not seeing evidence of racism here. Stupidity, yes. Emotional immaturity yes. Inability to make adult decisions, yes. Racism, no.

Listen, if (more like when) a murder is committed by one race against another because of race, I'll be there with you. When James Byrd, Jr. was viciously murdered by being dragged to death over miles of asphalt, I found the whole thing disgusting beyond belief. Shame two of the murderers are still breathing.

But in the meantime, unsubstantiated race baiting, by either side, is divisive and unproductive.

[Jingthing]

The charge wasn't racism.

It was murder and also manslaughter.

Racism is not a crime.

I really don't get why people would project on everyone with a problem with this verdict as feeling exactly the same way.

I have repeatedly said profiling isn't always unreasonable.

What Zimmerman did that night SPECIFICALLY was extremely unreasonable

I have said repeatedly the Justice Department probably doesn't have a case based on civil rights violations but I see nothing wrong with a fresh look at it.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

You failed to address the points in the documents you requested If you have any problems with the ABC report, sue ABC but THAT WILL NOT CHANGE THEY FACTS AS THEY EXIST. That fact is that Zimmerman at the time of the shooting of was on the following Psychiatric Medication, Adderall Re: Amphetamine and Dextroamphetamine Mixed salts. (2) Temazepam.

Amphetamine-Street name "Speed" Dextroamphetamine-street name "a very pure form of Speed" Kidi-Speed

They are prescribed to treat mental illness., As per google Psychiatric drugs.

As you failed to address the documentation I submitted, I will no longer post to any one of those known as the (*deleted*).

Cheers:

Edited July 22, 2013 by Scott

[mopar71]

Zimmerman could NOT have been me.

I do not understand this type of individual.

He is like the misguided rugged, paranoiac, individualistic ones that we wish we did not see every day.

It is too bad that too much in America still encourages racism.

But not too surprising,

Considering where we come from,

The primate side of life.

There is overwhelming evidence that Zimmerman IS NOT racist and there IS evidence that Trayvon was a violent racist homophobe (went back to beat up that "creepy ass cracker" following him because his girlfriend Jeantel said he might be a [gay] rapist).

[Jingthing]

Again, the legal charges were not about racism, and the murder victim is NOT on trial. He was already judged guilty and executed by his killer.

[gl555]

Again, it wasn't murder, it was self defense. And George Zimmerman was judged innocent and acquitted.

Again, the legal charges were not about racism, and the murder victim is NOT on trial. He was already judged guilty and executed by his killer.

[Jingthing]

Again, it wasn't murder, it was self defense. And George Zimmerman was judged innocent and acquitted.

Again, the legal charges were not about racism, and the murder victim is NOT on trial. He was already judged guilty and executed by his killer.

Under the law. That doesn't change the widespread public perception that Zimmerman retains GUILT for the killing.

[gl555]

Oh yes, let's ignore the law and give in to mob mentality.

Again, it wasn't murder, it was self defense. And George Zimmerman was judged innocent and acquitted.

Again, the legal charges were not about racism, and the murder victim is NOT on trial. He was already judged guilty and executed by his killer.

Under the law. That doesn't change the widespread public perception that Zimmerman retains GUILT for the killing.