Beating Your Children With A Stick.....

[Chonburiram]

I am reading/posting here since 2002, so I know about the fate of "Seonai"...

Your quoting : Morphine Valium & Wine - Seonai

is something that bothers me for quite some time - it reads like that's her legacy, what I am not willing to

believe... think about it... in all respect.

[MAJIC]

I was once waiting for a Train,coincidently in Udonthani,there was a lot of angry vocals,I turned to my left and a woman was kicking a young boy of about six,and shrieking at him,she kicked him all the way up the platform,when he fell down she kicked him some more,and he scurrying to get away,disappeared down to the Tuk Tuk park on the left facing the Station entrance.

Shocking behaviour from an Adult whatever he may have done,he wasn't carrying anything so couldn't have robbed her,shook me up for the rest of the Journey to Bangkok.

[NeverSure]

Well, the thread is about beating a kid with a stick. I totally disagree with the stick or a beating.

But every once in a while a non-injuring shot to the tail to change a child's attitude can IMHO be good for him. It should never be in anger but rather for the good of the unruly child.

Again, I believe it should be only to change the child's attitude, and never to injure. I also believe that if the child knows such an outcome is possible, it won't need to happen very many times.

[theblether]

That's my attitude entirely Neversure, thanks very much, and the comment about "never in anger" is spot on.

[martynsnowmans]

Apart from the locals thrashing their kids in public, how are things in Udon Thani these days?

wet , effin , wet ... but at least udon thani makro,s got NZ lamb on spesh at 269 bt a kg ,

and on sundays we can beat our kidds twice that day because theres nothing else to

do , happy days ......

[harrry]

Better you teach your kids that some actions can have a violent response, than someone else gives them

this lesson later on (with worse consequences...).

To all those who still believe corporal punishment is allowed in Thai schools, you are 15 years behind time.

Officially perhaps....in practice not at all.

I know a 50 yo lady teacher who had to apologise to a 12 yo punk in front of the whole school for

throwing a shoe after him (government school), to not get fired.

This punk was backed by his loso parents to get his "Satisfaction".

If this little shit would have been my son telling me what happened, the experience theblether made today

would pale into insignificance...

What on earth is a person in authority throwing a shoe at a youngster for? Brilliant piece of role modelling. Was he in danger, was he in the act of causing danger? I would have put her through a disciplinary hearing, regardless of your view of the parents, and made my own decision of the the incident. With the . Information known to me at this time I side with the parents, not your view. However it should not have been done publicly.

Why not publicly. Was the shoe thrown privately?

[nontabury]

The thing that is offensive for us, is that they use a stick. If they wouldn't use a stick we probably wouldn't be very upset about it.

I have noticed Thai people getting equally upset when they see foreigners slapping children on the head or pulling the ears. This is something Thai people would never do, they find it very offensive, but I see a lot of Westerners doing it.

Very much depends on culture.

An ideal parent would be able to control his/her children without a stick or slap. But I think there're very few ideal parents in this world (in any country).

It should only alarm you when you see parent actually beating their children, however I would then caution anybody to intervene personally.

Sorry totally disagree. I saw a boy being severely beaten by his father, Thais were watching & did nothing so I stepped in and said enough, father stopped and I took the child to a doctor for treatment. The guy lived a few houses away from me and luckily nothing happened. You cannot stand by & watch a child being beaten, you just lose your self respect

As you say. "Luckily nothing happened" better to always remember that this is Thailand. Most Thai's

Will accept us Farangs, but they will not accept Farangs poking their nosies into their ways and trying to tell them how to behave in THIER country. Your intervention could quite easily resulted in three things.

After the parent and child had made up.

1/ you finished up in hospital,

2/ you finished up in prison.

3/ you finished up being deported.

Sorry!, just realised a 4th,

You finished up in the local Wat,going up as smoke.

[theblether]

The thing that is offensive for us, is that they use a stick. If they wouldn't use a stick we probably wouldn't be very upset about it.

I have noticed Thai people getting equally upset when they see foreigners slapping children on the head or pulling the ears. This is something Thai people would never do, they find it very offensive, but I see a lot of Westerners doing it.

Very much depends on culture.

An ideal parent would be able to control his/her children without a stick or slap. But I think there're very few ideal parents in this world (in any country).

It should only alarm you when you see parent actually beating their children, however I would then caution anybody to intervene personally.

Sorry totally disagree. I saw a boy being severely beaten by his father, Thais were watching & did nothing so I stepped in and said enough, father stopped and I took the child to a doctor for treatment. The guy lived a few houses away from me and luckily nothing happened. You cannot stand by & watch a child being beaten, you just lose your self respect

As you say. "Luckily nothing happened" better to always remember that this is Thailand. Most Thai's

Will accept us Farangs, but they will not accept Farangs poking their nosies into their ways and trying to tell them how to behave in THIER country. Your intervention could quite easily resulted in three things.

After the parent and child had made up.

1/ you finished up in hospital,

2/ you finished up in prison.

3/ you finished up being deported.

Sorry!, just realised a 4th,

You finished up in the local Wat,going up as smoke.

5th/ What actually happened was that everything worked out peacefully in the end.

Do you sleep with the light on at night?

[899cc]

Spare the rod and spoil the child...

Outdated, archaic and just plain wrong.

may be outdated to some but it work for others...

[GooEng]

thais seem to have an indifferent attitude when they witness violence they are not involved in - ive seen guys punch women, gang punch ups and everyone just stands by - but so what, it's not my business either so i'm not bothered.

UNLESS there is a farang involved in which case they will all pile in from all sides and give him a good shoeing/bottle/punch/stick regardless of what they know about who's wrong - that does bother me.

[ronz28]

My Mom's disciplinary tactic was to give me a whipping with a belt or a hanger (1950s-1960's, Texas). I guess it worked but I never did that to my kids. The older one got an occasional spanking and the younger one just stern talking to for discipline. Now she disciplines her kids with stern talking and time out and that's as effective as any method I have seen.

I guess its true that what you are or do depends on where you were when.

[kriswillems]

Some people on this thread mentioned that children are white canvasses and that they'll become what me make of them.

I partly disagree with that.

Children very often try to look for the borders, or go over the borders, just to test the parents. Some children will not be impressed by the parents negotiating/talking with them. When the safety of the child is at risk a slap is very often the last possible tool to adjust the behaviour of the child.

And then there the time factor. In some cases children refuse to do something that's necessary, for instance, getting dressed in the morning. The children have to be on time in school, there's no time for a 20 minutes conversation. A slap sometimes quickly resolves the problem.

Another thing is that each child is born with a certain genes. Some people are rebels by nature. It's hard to adjust that by talking. I see this with people that adopt children. Within the same family with adopted children one child becomes professor while the other on ends up in jail.

Children are in my opinion not white canvasses but have a very strong own will that in some cases might be dominant over the words of the parents.

[EyesWideOpen]

Culture differences aside, every person should have an internal compass about what is reasonable human behavior. If you do not have that, then I am sorry for you. So if I see a parent absolutely brutalizing a child, whether I am in Thailand, Australia, or Swaziland, I am going to stop it. If there are consequences to my action, then I will deal with them. If you choose to watch a child being severely beaten , chalk it up to " Thai culture", and walk away, then it will be you who cannot sleep that night....

On my soi last week, I saw a fat older Russian woman brutalizing a small boy of about 3 years old. She was striking him, dragging him down the street by one arm, and then flung him into a stroller. I just started walking over to stop it, when three other younger Russian woman came over to speak to her. It apparently worked, as she calmed down a bit and continued down the street without hurting the boy anymore.

[chrisinth]

I have also seen discipline administered as described in the OP up here in Phitsanulok. A really decent Thai motorcycle repair guy here, took a belt to his son, in public, and really laid into him. This was in the early evening beside a busy road.

Talking to him the next evening (usual as I passed him everyday walking the dogs) he said he had trouble with his son in that he disobeyed his parents and had taken one of the customer's motorbikes onto the road. The beating in public was double-edged, one to bring home the humiliation factor to the son and two to show the neighbours he had control. It has to be said also that this is a very close father/son relationship.

Admittedly, I have just skimmed through this topic, but I am surprised at the memory loss of quite a few of the posters. Does nobody remember before Dr, Benjamin Spock (not Star Trek) and others put his theories to the world that children should never be disciplined? It became controlled by law how a parent brought up their own children. What followed was that teachers couldn't control their classes without the threat of the cane, in fact it became illegal for them to even raise their voices to them!

Loss of Authority = Loss of Control

Loss of Control = Loss of Respect

Loss of Respect = What you have today among the youth of most 'civilized' countries.

And still, people can't see this for what it is, instead preferring to blame drug culture, music, video games, behavior of celebrity's in public (<deleted>) instead of blaming what society has transgressed into with ridiculous 'Let the little mites do what they want and all will be well' theories.

My mother (a really decent middle-class British woman) used to beat the crap out of me, when it was necessary (probably more that average if truth be known) and I would have no idea how many times I was caned at school. I, for one, am happy I went through that, and have understood for years that, in my case anyway, it was a necessary process.

My above viewpoint does not include excessive, uncalled for violence to children, that is something else entirely.

Sorry guys, rant over (I didn't start out meaning to say all that........... )

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Admittedly, I have just skimmed through this topic, but I am surprised at the memory loss of quite a few of the posters. Does nobody remember before Dr, Benjamin Spock (not Star Trek) and others put his theories to the world that children should never be disciplined? It became controlled by law how a parent brought up their own children. What followed was that teachers couldn't control their classes without the threat of the cane, in fact it became illegal for them to even raise their voices to them!

It's a poor teacher that has to shout at their pupils.

Anyway this thread is about hitting children, which is just plain wrong.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[EyesWideOpen]

Admittedly, I have just skimmed through this topic, but I am surprised at the memory loss of quite a few of the posters. Does nobody remember before Dr, Benjamin Spock (not Star Trek) and others put his theories to the world that children should never be disciplined? It became controlled by law how a parent brought up their own children. What followed was that teachers couldn't control their classes without the threat of the cane, in fact it became illegal for them to even raise their voices to them!

It's a poor teacher that has to shout at their pupils.

Anyway this thread is about hitting children, which is just plain wrong.

Agreed. When I went to school, there were no teachers yelling or hitting the students. If you acted out in class, you were made to sit outside the hallway alone for the duration of class. This soon taught the people acting out to behave or be in for an hour of boredom. The only hitting was done by the gym teachers, who always had a " board of education" close at hand somewhere. That was actually printed on the front of it, Board of Education... :-) Hurt like hell if it was done during swim class in wet trunks....

[transam]

Admittedly, I have just skimmed through this topic, but I am surprised at the memory loss of quite a few of the posters. Does nobody remember before Dr, Benjamin Spock (not Star Trek) and others put his theories to the world that children should never be disciplined? It became controlled by law how a parent brought up their own children. What followed was that teachers couldn't control their classes without the threat of the cane, in fact it became illegal for them to even raise their voices to them!

It's a poor teacher that has to shout at their pupils.

Anyway this thread is about hitting children, which is just plain wrong.

Agreed. When I went to school, there were no teachers yelling or hitting the students. If you acted out in class, you were made to sit outside the hallway alone for the duration of class. This soon taught the people acting out to behave or be in for an hour of boredom. The only hitting was done by the gym teachers, who always had a " board of education" close at hand somewhere. That was actually printed on the front of it, Board of Education... :-) Hurt like hell if it was done during swim class in wet trunks....

Same when I was a kid AND you feared that the headmaster might see there you cos it might mean '' The Cane''. .............

[simple1]

The thing that is offensive for us, is that they use a stick. If they wouldn't use a stick we probably wouldn't be very upset about it.

I have noticed Thai people getting equally upset when they see foreigners slapping children on the head or pulling the ears. This is something Thai people would never do, they find it very offensive, but I see a lot of Westerners doing it.

Very much depends on culture.

An ideal parent would be able to control his/her children without a stick or slap. But I think there're very few ideal parents in this world (in any country).

It should only alarm you when you see parent actually beating their children, however I would then caution anybody to intervene personally.

Sorry totally disagree. I saw a boy being severely beaten by his father, Thais were watching & did nothing so I stepped in and said enough, father stopped and I took the child to a doctor for treatment. The guy lived a few houses away from me and luckily nothing happened. You cannot stand by & watch a child being beaten, you just lose your self respect

As you say. "Luckily nothing happened" better to always remember that this is Thailand. Most Thai's

Will accept us Farangs, but they will not accept Farangs poking their nosies into their ways and trying to tell them how to behave in THIER country. Your intervention could quite easily resulted in three things.

After the parent and child had made up.

1/ you finished up in hospital,

2/ you finished up in prison.

3/ you finished up being deported.

Sorry!, just realised a 4th,

You finished up in the local Wat,going up as smoke.

So you would not intervene & help a child in fear of possible consequences? As Thais say 'up to you", but it's not how I will live my life in Thailand when seeing a child being repeatedly hit with an electrical cable.

[chrisinth]

Admittedly, I have just skimmed through this topic, but I am surprised at the memory loss of quite a few of the posters. Does nobody remember before Dr, Benjamin Spock (not Star Trek) and others put his theories to the world that children should never be disciplined? It became controlled by law how a parent brought up their own children. What followed was that teachers couldn't control their classes without the threat of the cane, in fact it became illegal for them to even raise their voices to them!

It's a poor teacher that has to shout at their pupils.

Anyway this thread is about hitting children, which is just plain wrong.

Agreed. When I went to school, there were no teachers yelling or hitting the students. If you acted out in class, you were made to sit outside the hallway alone for the duration of class. This soon taught the people acting out to behave or be in for an hour of boredom. The only hitting was done by the gym teachers, who always had a " board of education" close at hand somewhere. That was actually printed on the front of it, Board of Education... :-) Hurt like hell if it was done during swim class in wet trunks....

Same when I was a kid AND you feared that the headmaster might see there you cos it might mean '' The Cane''. alt=w00t.gif> .............

But there was the Control.......................

[Mossfinn]

I know a 50 yo lady teacher who had to apologise to a 12 yo punk in front of the whole school for

throwing a shoe after him (government school), to not get fired.

This punk was backed by his loso parents to get his "Satisfaction".

If this little shit would have been my son telling me what happened, the experience theblether made today

would pale into insignificance...

What on earth is a person in authority throwing a shoe at a youngster for? Brilliant piece of role modelling. Was he in danger, was he in the act of causing danger? I would have put her through a disciplinary hearing, regardless of your view of the parents, and made my own decision of the the incident. With the . Information known to me at this time I side with the parents, not your view. However it should not have been done publicly.

Why not publicly. Was the shoe thrown privately?

Because two wrongs don't make a right, disciplinary hearings should be private.

[EyesWideOpen]

Simple1

So you would not intervene & help a child in fear of possible consequences? As Thais say 'up to you", but it's not how I will live my life in Thailand when seeing a child being repeatedly hit with an electrical cable.

Wow that is hard core. If you visit S-21 prison in Phnom Penh electrical cables were used to whip prisoners by the stooges of Pol Pot. How odd to use them on your own child.... I think I would have been tempted to do a bit of whipping myself on the man, to help him have a clearer understanding of the pain.... :-) Sort of like being a teacher....

Edited July 21, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Kudel]

I'm not a big fan of hitting kids myself,my youngest son sometime's gets a slap on the bum and a time out in the corner mostly does the trick with him.

But the latest trend here in the west is to have kids behaving badly diagnosed with adhd and then pump them full of meds like rilatine ,big bucks for the farmaceutical company's and the kids taking said meds behave like robots.

I call this the result of poor parenting,some kids have a higher energy level then others ,have them join a sportclub or something so they can rid of some of this excess energy and learn some disciplin a long the way.

[pattayadingo]

People who beat their children have limited intelligence and are unable to communicate to a level where the children can understand.

The more quality time you spend with your children at an earlier age pay's off later in life through higher than average grades and common sense.

Children are a blank canvas and it's up to the parent to instill the values needed for life, if done correctly corporal punishment is rarely needed.

The children will know the difference between right and wrong and try to help others onto the same path.

Sometimes you will get a dysfunctional child through parent neglect or alcohol/drug misuse in pregnancy with leads to "special needs". These children can sometimes disrupt the class and other students and maybe in some cases there is no reasoning with them so they need a one to one teacher or occasional a slap works.

A lot of generalising here as it's not a specific science with children.

Every child is different but they all need love and attention.

CCC

If all children are a 'blank canvas'.....

What about the Moors Murderers?

The Bulger killings?

Jack the Ripper

to name a tiny few.

Murderers, Rapists, Child molesters.....

Hetrosexuals, Lesbians, Homosexuals.......

If they are all a blank canvas at the start, what sort of upbringing did these people have to make them this way?

Is / are all the above down to good or bad parenting? I doubt it very very much.

Much of what is within us and in the animal kingdon too is what is passed down to us from our parents via genes.

Parenting is about guiding your offspring to the best of your ability using the rules and boundaries you aspire to.

Yet if a child or a person is evil or plain bad there is often little you can do about it.

Many a decent parent has thrown their hands up in despair at their thieveing, car twocking, bullying, murdering, raping offspring. And the offspring are not ALL this way because of the way they are reared.

[chrisinth]

I'm not a big fan of hitting kids myself,my youngest son sometime's gets a slap on the bum and a time out in the corner mostly does the trick with him.

But the latest trend here in the west is to have kids behaving badly diagnosed with adhd and then pump them full of meds like rilatine ,big bucks for the farmaceutical company's and the kids taking said meds behave like robots.

I call this the result of poor parenting,some kids have a higher energy level then others ,have them join a sportclub or something so they can rid of some of this excess energy and learn some disciplin a long the way.

I am exactly the same Kudel, not a fan in anyway of hitting kids. But, I also believe there is a fine line with teaching children what is right and wrong with 'a slap on the bum' to coin a phrase, and actual physical violence towards the child.

But when a parent is not allowed to administer discipline and the powers that be consider medication as an answer instead of the occasional 'slap on the bum' while the child is growing up, then there is something terribly wrong somewhere.

IMHO, this is just another progressive step formed on the theories of misguided, feel-good people to alter the way we are meant to progress in the natural world. We also have to remember that tests done in strictly controlled environments does not automatically mean that the test will be successful in the real world.

[Kudel]

I'm not a big fan of hitting kids myself,my youngest son sometime's gets a slap on the bum and a time out in the corner mostly does the trick with him.

But the latest trend here in the west is to have kids behaving badly diagnosed with adhd and then pump them full of meds like rilatine ,big bucks for the farmaceutical company's and the kids taking said meds behave like robots.

I call this the result of poor parenting,some kids have a higher energy level then others ,have them join a sportclub or something so they can rid of some of this excess energy and learn some disciplin a long the way.

I am exactly the same Kudel, not a fan in anyway of hitting kids. But, I also believe there is a fine line with teaching children what is right and wrong with 'a slap on the bum' to coin a phrase, and actual physical violence towards the child.

But when a parent is not allowed to administer discipline and the powers that be consider medication as an answer instead of the occasional 'slap on the bum' while the child is growing up, then there is something terribly wrong somewhere.

IMHO, this is just another progressive step formed on the theories of misguided, feel-good people to alter the way we are meant to progress in the natural world. We also have to remember that tests done in strictly controlled environments does not automatically mean that the test will be successful in the real world.

When i started high school i had a guy in my class called chris a straight a student ,his mother was also a teacher in my school and his dad was a manager in a big company.

Everybody always said chris would make something of his life and he had always had a protected life when growing up in a good upperclass family.

But then we became teens and chris who was very booksmart but not very streetsmart got involved with the wrong kind of people .

To cut a long story short i went to his funeral about ten years ago ,because his body was found in a drug den ,he took an overdose of heroin apperently.

I still think about chris a lot ......

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Spare the rod and spoil the child...

Outdated, archaic and just plain wrong.

the bible you mean?

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

I'm not a big fan of hitting kids myself,my youngest son sometime's gets a slap on the bum and a time out in the corner mostly does the trick with him.

But the latest trend here in the west is to have kids behaving badly diagnosed with adhd and then pump them full of meds like rilatine ,big bucks for the farmaceutical company's and the kids taking said meds behave like robots.

I call this the result of poor parenting,some kids have a higher energy level then others ,have them join a sportclub or something so they can rid of some of this excess energy and learn some disciplin a long the way.

I am exactly the same Kudel, not a fan in anyway of hitting kids. But, I also believe there is a fine line with teaching children what is right and wrong with 'a slap on the bum' to coin a phrase, and actual physical violence towards the child.

But when a parent is not allowed to administer discipline and the powers that be consider medication as an answer instead of the occasional 'slap on the bum' while the child is growing up, then there is something terribly wrong somewhere.

IMHO, this is just another progressive step formed on the theories of misguided, feel-good people to alter the way we are meant to progress in the natural world. We also have to remember that tests done in strictly controlled environments does not automatically mean that the test will be successful in the real world.

When i started high school i had a guy in my class called chris a straight a student ,his mother was also a teacher in my school and his dad was a manager in a big company.

Everybody always said chris would make something of his life and he had always had a protected life when growing up in a good upperclass family.

But then we became teens and chris who was very booksmart but not very streetsmart got involved with the wrong kind of people .

To cut a long story short i went to his funeral about ten years ago ,because his body was found in a drug den ,he took an overdose of heroin apperently.

I still think about chris a lot ......

respectfully, What the xxxx does chris have to do with anything?

Edited July 21, 2013 by metisdead
Let's drop the use of disguised profanity.

[Ace of Pop]

When i was a Kid You respected Authority, apart from the odd Dim Teacher, now most Teachers are Lefty,P.C. Malcontents and it shows through the Students.. You didnt cheek any of the Old School ex Army Lot.

[Kudel]

I'm not a big fan of hitting kids myself,my youngest son sometime's gets a slap on the bum and a time out in the corner mostly does the trick with him.

But the latest trend here in the west is to have kids behaving badly diagnosed with adhd and then pump them full of meds like rilatine ,big bucks for the farmaceutical company's and the kids taking said meds behave like robots.

I call this the result of poor parenting,some kids have a higher energy level then others ,have them join a sportclub or something so they can rid of some of this excess energy and learn some disciplin a long the way.

I am exactly the same Kudel, not a fan in anyway of hitting kids. But, I also believe there is a fine line with teaching children what is right and wrong with 'a slap on the bum' to coin a phrase, and actual physical violence towards the child.

But when a parent is not allowed to administer discipline and the powers that be consider medication as an answer instead of the occasional 'slap on the bum' while the child is growing up, then there is something terribly wrong somewhere.

IMHO, this is just another progressive step formed on the theories of misguided, feel-good people to alter the way we are meant to progress in the natural world. We also have to remember that tests done in strictly controlled environments does not automatically mean that the test will be successful in the real world.

When i started high school i had a guy in my class called chris a straight a student ,his mother was also a teacher in my school and his dad was a manager in a big company.

Everybody always said chris would make something of his life and he had always had a protected life when growing up in a good upperclass family.

But then we became teens and chris who was very booksmart but not very streetsmart got involved with the wrong kind of people .

To cut a long story short i went to his funeral about ten years ago ,because his body was found in a drug den ,he took an overdose of heroin apperently.

I still think about chris a lot ......

respectfully, What the xxxx does chris have to do with anything?

It has the xxxx to do about everything bringing up kids .

It means coming from a good family or background means nothing in the real world .

Edited July 21, 2013 by metisdead
Let's drop the use of disguised profanity.

[NoshowJones]

Then why did you watch ?

What did you want him to do? I do not like it either, but there is nothing you can do unless you want to take on another five or six Thais.