Renewing A Retirement Visa On The Last Day

[Bababooey]

I am on a 1 Year Extension of Stay (Retirement Visa) which expires on Friday, November 1st. I assume this means that if not extended I am legal on November 1st but not on November 2nd?

I am out of Thailand and because of work commitments cannot return until Thursday, October 31st. I have more than 800K in my bank account but I need to get the bank letter before going to Immigration.

If I arrive in Thailand after the banks close on Thursaday Oct 31, is it likely that I can go to Ayudthya Bank when it opens on November 1st, get the letter, and then when I get to Immigration, about 30 minutes away, not be told, "come back on Monday, it's too late today?" It's possible the bank might say I can't pick up the letter until Monday.

Now it is possible (although difficult because it involves the submission of final exam results and I won't be able to get my final pay) that I could get to the bank around 11AM on Thurday, Ocober 31st and perhaps get the letter that day and then get to Immigration on October 31st in the afternoon. But then if I'm told "too late today, come back tomorrow" then the bank letter is not dated the same day, not sure if this matters or not.

I hate cutting things this close but I can't just take off and leave a couple days early.

So the two sticking points are:

1) The exact timeframe of getting my bank letter from Ayudtha Bank in Pattaya

2) What happens if I arrive at Immigration before it closes but that guy at the desk says come back on Monday and when I explain my visa expires today, he says agian, "come back on Monday"

Thanks in advance to all who can be helpful.

[harrry]

Get a non immigrant visa in your country or another to enter thailand for retirement. This will cancel your current visa.

In thailand you then have a couple of months to go and get your extension. If you have the money in the bank seasoned that is no problem.

The only problem with this is that if you want to apply for Permanent Residency or Citizenship in the future this may break the time chain of staying in Thailand on an extension.

If you do not do this you will almost certainly be given a 30 day stamp and this makes it much more work to change to retirement.

Edited July 21, 2013 by harrry

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Retirement extension does not count towards citizenship or residency 'time in country'.

It's a 'one off' with no promise or entitlement to anything else, so it doesn't matter.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[harrry]

Retirement extension does not count towards citizenship or residency 'time in country'.

It's a 'one off' with no promise or entitlement to anything else, so it doesn't matter.

No if you look at the conditions for permanant residence

quote http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thai-permanent-residency.php

n order to apply to become a Thai Permanent Resident, you must meet the following criteria:

• You must have had a Thai non-immigrant visa for at least three years prior to the submission of your application. Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not apply. You must have 3 consecutive yearly extensions in order to qualify.
• You must be a holder of a non-immigrant visa at the time of submitting your application.
• You must be able to meet one of these categories to apply for PR status in Thailand:
  • Investment category (minimum 3 – 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)
  • Working/ Business category
  • Support a family or Humanity Reasons category: In this category, you must have a relationship with a Thai citizen or an alien who already posses a residence permit as a husband or wife; father or mother; or a guardian of a Thai child under 20 years of age.
  • Expert / academic category
  • Other categories as determined by Thai Immigration

[AnotherOneAmerican]

'retirement extension' isn't on that list.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[harrry]

'retirement extension' isn't on that list.

THere really is no such thing as a Retirement Visa or extension.

I suggest you spend a little time reading posts of people who know on the visa forum.

What is a retirement xtension is a non immigrant or Non O visa extended for the purpose of Retirement.

It therefore qualifies for application. It is a points system where points are allocated for various atributes but a requirement for all is the continuous non immigrant extension.

'

[Jingthing]

Staying on annual extensions based on retirement in Thailand is NOT a path towards permanent residency status!

But that isn't what the OP even asked about. Is it?

As far as what the OP DID ask about, he's got an interesting problem.

1. Assuming he has a reentry permit to use when reentering (or a multiple). If not, forget it. Start over.

2. At entry, it's an unusual situation to be stamped in for ONE day. I don't have knowledge about that. A 30 day stamp would be more days. The OP should put his reentry permit down on the landing card and explicitly make CLEAR he is wants only ONE day, not 30 days.

3. His bank. The OP should say has he used this bank before for a letter or not. Was the service same day? Then it should be again, Is Pattaya his HOME BRANCH for that bank? Some banks make you go to their home branch. The branch NEAR immigration. Is that his HOME branch, or is his home branch another branch in Pattaya? If that bank only does letters from the home branch and the home branch is FAR from Pattaya, this can't work. With more SPECIFIC info, he may get a report from other locals using THAT bank for their bank letters. Otherwise, no way to know for sure until he tries.

4. Immigration. It is my strong belief if the OP shows up on the last day with a complete application that they will let him see an officer except if arriving very late in the day. If there is any flak, politely point out that it is the LAST day. No guarantees but that's how I see it.

If this is tried and it does not work, I guess have the bags packed for a QUICK trip out, yes?

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[AnotherOneAmerican]

@Harry

Your bold point list is misleading, as the translation to English is incorrect.

Corrected translation

You must satisfy all 3 points before you can apply for PR.

Point 1.

You must have been on non-immigrant extensions of stay for at least 3 continuous years before application.

Point 2.

You must have originally entered Thailand on a non-immigrant visa.

Point 3.

Your extension of stay must be based on one of the following categories.

Under 'Point 3', you fail as 'retirement extension of say' is deliberately excluded from the list.

I hope I have helped you with your understanding of the rules and assure you I am entirely correct.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[harrry]

Staying on annual extensions based on retirement in Thailand is NOT a path towards permanent residency status!

But that isn't what the OP even asked about. Is it?

As far as what the OP DID ask about, he's got an interesting problem.

1. Assuming he has a reentry permit to use when reentering (or a multiple). If not, forget it. Start over.

2. At entry, it's an unusual situation to be stamped in for ONE day. I don't have knowledge about that. A 30 day stamp would be more days. The OP should put his reentry permit down on the landing card and explicitly make CLEAR he is wants only ONE day, not 30 days.

3. His bank. The OP should say has he used this bank before for a letter or not. Was the service same day? Then it should be again, Is Pattaya his HOME BRANCH for that bank? Some banks make you go to their home branch. The branch NEAR immigration. Is that his HOME branch, or a is his home branch another branch in Pattaya? With more SPECIFIC info, he may get a report from other locals using THAT bank for their bank letters. Otherwise, no way to know for sure until he tries.

4. Immigration. It is my strong belief if the OP shows up on the last day with a complete application that they will let him see an officer except if arriving very late in the day. If there is any flak, politely point out that it is the LAST day. No guarantees but that's how I see it.

If this is tried and it does not work, I guess have the bags packed for a QUICK trip out, yes?

It is unlikely that the airport will even stamp him in for the one day.

If they did and it is like ChiangMai he has no hope in the world of being seen if he has not gone in before 8am and only a 50% chance then.

Regarding the Residence. No it is not a path to that but breaking the chain irrevocably starts the clock again.something he should be aware of if he may want to apply in the future.

What do you suggest he does if he does get a one day stamp and goes to immigration and they will not process it. Overstay and risk arrest and fine?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

No it is not a path to that but breaking the chain irrevocably starts the clock again.something he should be aware of if he may want to apply in the future.

There is no chain to break.

'retirement extension' is quick and easy for exactly that reason, it's a 'one off' deal each time.

[Jingthing]

It is unlikely that the airport will even stamp him in for the one day.

If they did and it is like ChiangMai he has no hope in the world of being seen if he has not gone in before 8am and only a 50% chance then.

Regarding the Residence. No it is not a path to that but breaking the chain irrevocably starts the clock again.something he should be aware of if he may want to apply in the future.

What do you suggest he does if he does get a one day stamp and goes to immigration and they will not process it. Overstay and risk arrest and fine?

I agree it is a question whether the airport will stamp in for one day. I have no idea. Maybe someone else does. Do they have a written policy about such things? I have never heard about it. But if they don't assuming he can still get a 30 day stamp.

The OP is applying at Jomtien. Jomtien is not Chiang Mai. The situation in CM is irrelevant. I speak as someone with experience at Jomtien. It's getting more crowded there but nothing like the horror stories from CM.

There is no reason immigration won't process his application on the last day IF it is complete. If there is a problem, I already said he should be prepared to leave Thailand immediately. That is not a major problem from Pattaya. Many flights leaving that night.

An alternative to trying this last minute thing is to give up and start over. It happens.

I suggest the OP explore the details some more before deciding to try this.

Such as his bank's policies and more expert information on the stamping for one day question.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[harrry]

It is unlikely that the airport will even stamp him in for the one day.

If they did and it is like ChiangMai he has no hope in the world of being seen if he has not gone in before 8am and only a 50% chance then.

Regarding the Residence. No it is not a path to that but breaking the chain irrevocably starts the clock again.something he should be aware of if he may want to apply in the future.

What do you suggest he does if he does get a one day stamp and goes to immigration and they will not process it. Overstay and risk arrest and fine?

I agree it is a question whether the airport will stamp in for one day. I have no idea. Maybe someday else does. Do they have a written policy about such things? I have never heard about it. But if they don't assuming he can still get a 30 day stamp.

The OP is applying at Jomtien. Jomtien is not Chiang Mai. The situation in CM is irrelevant. I speak as someone with experience at Jomtien. It's getting more crowded there but nothing like the horror stories from CM.

There is no reason immigration won't process his application on the last day IF it is complete. If there is a problem, I already said he should be prepared to leave Thailand immediately. That is not a major problem from Pattaya. Many flights leaving that night.

An alternative to trying this last minute thing is to give up and start over. It happens.

I suggest the OP explore the details some more before deciding to try this.

Such as his bank's policies and more expert information on the stamping for one day question.

Which was my actual suggest to the OP in my first post.

[Jingthing]

If entering on a 30 day stamp the OP should be able to convert that to an O visa (90 day stay) at Jomtien as part of the two step process. This would be starting over. The new extension would probably be applied for 30 days before the expiration of that new 90 day O visa (the second step). In that case, the OP will need to make sure the bank money will still be seasoned to reflect this NEW timeline.

I am assuming Jomtien still offers the change of visa status service to such eligible applicants using either a 30 day stamp or tourist visa. Wait for confirmation on that from a golden Guru.

So what I am saying is that even if "starting over" you won't need a new O visa from OUTSIDE Thailand.

The trying to handle the new extension on the last day DOES indeed sound stressful but at least there are other options.

If the OP does succeed in entering on the last day (no 30 day stamp) doing a CONVERSION to a new O will definitely not be possible based on that one day (not enough time left on the stay). In that scenario, there are three scenarios:

1. Succeed with the new extension

2. Leave that night and reenter with a 30 day stamp, tourist visa, or new single O

3. Overstay

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

There is no question - the airport is required to honor a re-entry permit and stamp you in for one day if you wish that (and explaining why they will understand). He will not be the first one stamped in for one day and others have reported here in the past of doing that. I would give it a try.

In worst case a new entry to obtain a new visa/extension and as said from retirement that is not a big issue.

[Jingthing]

OK, so the stamping in for one day is good assuming there is a valid reentry permit.

On that point, I would suggest making a THING about that issue at the desk. Otherwise, it's possible they might just stamp in the 30 days incorrectly. Don't assume they'll do it right ... make it clear what you need.

It seems to me the issue now is with the BANK.

If the OP can give more details on his bank including which branch he opened the account in, he might possibly get info from someone else using that bank. Keep in mind it is not very unusual for banks to insist that you must go to the "home branch" where you opened the account to obtain such letters.

I understand the concern of being "too late" to get a meeting at immigration if they are busy but I think they would have to be really sadistic to not grant that if it's made clear that it is the LAST day.

Uh oh. I now have another concern.

In my experience at Jomtien, they accept your application one day and make you come back the NEXT DAY to pick up your passport.

Maybe people who come in the morning get their passport the same day, but I always come in the afternoon and have never gotten my passport back the same day.

I don't know whether or not that's any issue if they don't actually fully stamp your passport until the next day which in this case would be one day AFTER expiration of current stay. I guess it's probably OK but I don't really know. It seems to me if your application is accepted on the last day that would be good enough ...

Edited July 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

The stamp would likely be the same day even if returned the next and even for those on several days of overstay immigration has been granting new extensions upon payment of the overstay time from current reports on forum.

[Bababooey]

Thanks for the input guys!

I do have a re-entry permit.

My branch of Ayudhya is on Pattaya Tai near Friendship supermarket.

I have gotten a letter at that branch before. I forget the exact details but I belive there was some communication with Bangkok, perhaps the letter was composed in Bangkok and printed out in Pattaya. Any recent reports of getting the letter at that branch appreciated.

[Bababooey]

If you do not do this you will almost certainly be given a 30 day stamp and this makes it much more work to change to retirement.

What is the difference in procedure between entering on a 30 day stamp and entering on a 60 day tourist visa as far as converting to a "retirement visa"?

The money in the bank is not a problem as there is more than 800K now and there will be more than 800K contunuously for more than 3 months afterward.

[harrry]

If you do not do this you will almost certainly be given a 30 day stamp and this makes it much more work to change to retirement.

What is the difference in procedure between entering on a 30 day stamp and entering on a 60 day tourist visa as far as converting to a "retirement visa"?

The money in the bank is not a problem as there is more than 800K now and there will be more than 800K contunuously for more than 3 months afterward.

If you enter on a 30 day stamp you have to convert to a non imigrant visa at immigration before you can convert to a retirement extention. This meanss at some places yolu pay 1900baht and get a 90 day visa then immediately pay another 1900 baht and the cancel the 90 day visa and give you a new one for one year. At others they give you a 90 day non o and at the end of that you can apply for the retirement visa. From what I hear most places now will convert a stamp to the non o though in the past some would not and you had to leave the country to re-enter on one. I think that is unlikely now.

As you have time depending where you are I would think it easier to handle the issue before you re-enter by getting a non imm outside the country and entering on that. I honestly think one day is giving yourself too little time especially if there is a plane hold up or something.

True this is thailand and things usually work out in the end if you play the game but sometimes it pays to make the game easier.

[lopburi3]

Non immigrant visa issue or conversion will cost 2,000 baht if needed anywhere - nobody gives them away and the only difference between visa exempt and tourist visa is the form used. Any extension will be in addition to the 90 day visa entry. You never have to leave country if local office will not make the change as Bangkok will make for anyone in that case.

[dighambara]

Staying on annual extensions based on retirement in Thailand is NOT a path towards permanent residency status!

But that isn't what the OP even asked about. Is it?

As far as what the OP DID ask about, he's got an interesting problem.

1. Assuming he has a reentry permit to use when reentering (or a multiple). If not, forget it. Start over.

2. At entry, it's an unusual situation to be stamped in for ONE day. I don't have knowledge about that. A 30 day stamp would be more days. The OP should put his reentry permit down on the landing card and explicitly make CLEAR he is wants only ONE day, not 30 days.

3. His bank. The OP should say has he used this bank before for a letter or not. Was the service same day? Then it should be again, Is Pattaya his HOME BRANCH for that bank? Some banks make you go to their home branch. The branch NEAR immigration. Is that his HOME branch, or is his home branch another branch in Pattaya? If that bank only does letters from the home branch and the home branch is FAR from Pattaya, this can't work. With more SPECIFIC info, he may get a report from other locals using THAT bank for their bank letters. Otherwise, no way to know for sure until he tries.

4. Immigration. It is my strong belief if the OP shows up on the last day with a complete application that they will let him see an officer except if arriving very late in the day. If there is any flak, politely point out that it is the LAST day. No guarantees but that's how I see it.

If this is tried and it does not work, I guess have the bags packed for a QUICK trip out, yes?

HMMMM - Many has gotten residence with retirement visa 'extensions'. However, residence is no longer required for citizenship: http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-thailand-citizenship

On a recent visit to Immigration, I was told; ' residency is not required for citizenship, but applications are in December'...

As to the original problem, assuming he has a re-entry stamp, he should just go about his business as necessary and if late, pay the fine.

Two years ago, I was 2 days late - date stamp was for Saturday & office was closed. On Monday, I was chargfed for 2 day's overstay and extended for a year from Saturday.

[Mario2008]

Applications for Thai citizenship can be made all year round. Applications for Permanent residency only after announcement that applications are open. Normally that is for two weeks in December.

For both PR and Thai nationality you must live in Thailand on continuous extensions of stay.

I have not heard of any persons getting PR on extensions of stay based on retirement. The rules make that virtually impossible.

Don't confuse PR with Thai nationality.

[Jingthing]

Thanks for the input guys!

I do have a re-entry permit.

My branch of Ayudhya is on Pattaya Tai near Friendship supermarket.

I have gotten a letter at that branch before. I forget the exact details but I belive there was some communication with Bangkok, perhaps the letter was composed in Bangkok and printed out in Pattaya. Any recent reports of getting the letter at that branch appreciated.

I reckon since you used that branch before successfully for your letter, it is highly probable that the experience will be similar this time as well.

[Paul888]

Taking with you a copy of the letter from last year, and asking them to replicate it with the correct new information could speed up the process.

[Jingthing]

If you try this last day thing, please let us know how it turned out!

Drama and suspense on the visa forum, who knew?

[Bababooey]

Taking with you a copy of the letter from last year, and asking them to replicate it with the correct new information could speed up the process.

This year, I'll make a copy of the letter. In prior years, I gave them the original but did not make a copy.

[Bababooey]

Two years ago, I was 2 days late - date stamp was for Saturday & office was closed. On Monday, I was chargfed for 2 day's overstay and extended for a year from Saturday.

I guess the Immigration can use their descretion on some close calls.

Guess I won't wear a wifebeater/singlet!

Wondering if this was at Jomtien Immigration?

[Bababooey]

If you try this last day thing, please let us know how it turned out!

Drama and suspense on the visa forum, who knew?

Yes, I'll be sure to let everyone know how it turned out.

[Bababooey]

Non immigrant visa issue or conversion will cost 2,000 baht if needed anywhere - nobody gives them away and the only difference between visa exempt and tourist visa is the form used. Any extension will be in addition to the 90 day visa entry. You never have to leave country if local office will not make the change as Bangkok will make for anyone in that case.

Thanks Lopburi!

So if the conversion costs 2000 baht whether it's a free stamp or a paid tourist visa, then if would be foolish to get the tourist visa. Am I missing something here?

If I arrived on October 31st with a stamp and then converted would the extension begin approx Feb 1st (approx 90 days) or around March 1st (30+90 =120 days)?

Good to know if Bangkok will do this. Has anyone converted from a stamp to a 90 day in Jomtien?

[lopburi3]

The tourist visa might fit some (who will not have enough funds in Thailand during a 30 day entry or those needing proof of visa to board aircraft with a one way ticket. No need for you and believe you will be OK using the re-entry for the one day and extending directly from that as long as Bank not an issue.