19 dead in Thai bus smash: authorities

[Jim walker]

RIP and condolences to family and friend of all these poor people who died another horrifying road accident involving public transport in Thailand, Driving in Thailand is always a high risk event and it now appears to be getting worse, even the train is starting to be a bit dodgy, looks like flying is the safest transport in Thailand, only problem with this is you don’t see the beautiful countryside and all the small villages and how the majority of rural Thai people live and their daily existence.

[briboy]

Two in one day. Banner headlines, but little or no action on regulating the bus owners or their drivers safety standards. Stay alive tourists, don't take the bus or the trains these days.

This is precisely the wrong response.

The correct response is to be aware that the awareness of an incident does not despite your feelings to the contrary indicate the risk.

Large accidents get headlines. Any crash at all by a train (necessarily a large number of people involved) or a bus (necessarily a large number of people involved) will get headlines. The consequence is despite train travel (and air travel) being incredibly safe (a couple of years back not a single person died in a commercial airline crash) people actually think you should avoid in order to take the more dangerous option of motorbikes or cars...

Humans are an odd bunch. When they assess a risk they look at their agency (with a train they are not driving so feel it less forgivable when it crashes), whether it was moral (if it was a bomb this is a way of dying less acceptable). And then always demand safety where no safety is needed (there is the bizarre consequence of more safety spending on planes leading to higher deaths as people cannot afford the tickets and take the dangerous car instead). And on it goes.

The only way is to ask yourself what is the greatest danger by mile. Forget the moral aspect and your sense of agency. And most of all: forget horrible crash news headlines.

Sorry but that is a complete crock.

So would you like everyone at an airport or bus terminal check-in to be given a bucket of sand to stick their heads in? Airline tickets are not getting more expensive because of them 'spending more on safety', that is rubbish. Tickets are getting more expensive because of greedy Governments and airport authorities increasing airport taxes. Have you actually seen the price of a bare bones airline ticket? On average they are making 6% profit from you (1-2% for a low cost airline), hell if a restaurant is not making 25% profit from you then they generally won't even open.

You are very unwise if you 'forget horrible crash news headlines'. It is proved over and over again that safety on any type of public transport, in particular aircraft is down to YOUR personal choice. If you choose to fly on a domestic African or Chinese airline (for example) then you are statistically at a much higher chance of being involved in an accident than if you fly on a domestic German or British flight. If you choose to ride on a bus in a country that has 20 000+ deaths on the road each year as opposed to a country (with an almost identical population) such as the UK, that has 3000 deaths on the road each year then where do you think the highest level of risk is centered?

The solutions are easy. Mandatory breath tests when you sign in at work to pick up the keys to your bus/transport wagon/train or aircraft (metaphoric!), in Thailand, mandatory urine tests at the start and end of shift to make sure Drivers are not taking yabba (a 30 second process). The correct licensing of individuals and the correct maintenance of vehicles, and strict adherence to safety protocols. In the UK the rules for drivers of long distance drivers of trucks and buses are MORE stringent than the rules for an airline pilot in terms of the hours they are permitted to be on duty and their associated rest periods, and if you break those rules you are in serious trouble.

also add point to point fixed cameras for heavy vehicles, connected and controlled 24/7??

[ThaiTerry]

Thai highways with poor protections and signalizations + high speed careless drivers + powerful pickup engines = Fatal accidents.

Such a tragedy.... really sad news.

What article did you read? The pickup was following the bus, the cement truck appears to be at fault.

[allalong]

In a "normal" civilized,country where people are held accountable for why these events happen and how to prevent it again there would be a thprough investigation into all aspects of this tragedy,if only out of respect to the families of the 19 dead.Furthermore this would be all over the media ,the victims families would be getting publicity and demanding law changes with regard safety and enforcement and public pressure would great enough to ensure that.Will this happen in Thailand?I know,silly question.

[britinthai]

I drive for 2.5 years I drive 100 kms per day on the same busy road with 3 or 4 lanes (on each side). There's a mix of motorcycles, buses and trucks on the same road. Some car and fully loaded minivans drive 140 km/h and some trucks 20 km/h. Motorcycles slalom between the traffic. There are U-turns at several places. People use the wrong lane for taking a U-turn and the wrong lane for turning. Motorcycles and cars drive against the traffic.

Almost every month I see dead people. The first deadly road accident I ever saw was in Thailand. I was shocked.

After seeing so many accidents I got used to it. When we drive by car and we see another body covered with a blanket, we just say "oh, too bad" and go on with with talking about what we were talking before.

Thai people that live around here saw so many deadly accidents, they got used to it. It's like a normal part of life and nobody cares to do something about it.

It's depressing when you start thinking about it, so I guess most people just choose not to think at all.

What is really terrible is that the worst drivers are "professional drivers": bus drivers, minivan drivers, songthaew drivers, taxis and motorcycle taxis. It shouldn't be this way.

There was a time when there was no white lines on this part of road thus 3 or 4 lanes was just one big lane; where you could see the brown faced Thai driver constantly zig zagging because he could not decide where he should be driving. You could see the brown faced driver repeatedly changing to a throbbing purple head, who drove like a <deleted> because somebody cut across his path. It was a scary time but also very funny. Travelling along I said to my wife how do you confuse a Thai driver, she said give him two steering wheels, which was a good answer and quite funny, where I thought of a kids toy; I said give him a four lane highway with no white lines - just look at these idiots.

[sirchai]

Rest in Peace to all the victims. Very sad news.-

[lemonjelly]

have they checked the phone log of the cement truck driver….. was he on the phone and driving one handed when it happened….

[tjbricker]

I rode that route twice in the last two months... wow now thinking about flying more. So sad and probably avoidable

[HOOD Robin]

Words fails me, I'm lost as to what to say to such tragedy,

Will it EVER stop ? Unfortunatelly we all know the answer....

[GentlemanJim]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

19 dead,no way 19 would have died with impact injuries,there was no rear exit from that bus in all probability

How on earth do you just pluck statements like that out of thin air? You kid yourself and it is irresponsible to others who 'may' listen to you. Many studies have been done on the risk of severe injury or fatal injury as a result of a frontal or side impact between two vehicles. The way researchers calculate is not simply on the speed of the vehicle but on the relative instant change in velocity, this is known as Delta V . So if two vehicles collide at 30mph head on they will immediately come to rest their Delta V will be 30 mph. If one vehicle is stationary and the other hits at 30mph the delta V of both vehicles will be 15 mph. If you have a head on crash where your Delta V is 43mph your risk of serious injury will be 100% and that is for people wearing seat belts!! If you crash with a Delta V of 65mph you have a 95% chance of fatality, again that is wearing a seat belt.

How many people on the bus were wearing a seat belt?

How fast was the bus going down hill? (if he was doing 120kph - 80mph and the cement truck crossed the road AND was stationary at the time of impact then everyone on board the bus would have suffered a Delta V of 40 mph giving a 60% chance of fatality...IF they were wearing a seat belt, much higher if they were not. So to answer your point, the chances of 19 people being 'taken out' by the impact would be extremely high either because the impact would be fatal or they would have suffered serious injury prior to the onset of fire.

By the way if you see a head on crash is inevitable and cannot be avoided, brake hard for sure but DO NOT try and manouver the car in to a side impact position. Your chances of survival with a side impact are severely impaired compared to a head on. There is a very high probability that all passengers would sustain broken necks at Delta V's in the order of 40 mph.

For anyone interested I dug out this paper I read a couple of years ago concerning car/pedestrian impacts and car/car impacts.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/pgr-roadsafety-research-rsrr-theme5-researchreport16-pdf/rswp116.pdf

[DoctorG]

Sad, but what can you do? Nothing is ever going to change in Thailand.

[Chrisswe]

Blood sample should be taken from the driver's to establish if alcohol or other kinds of drugs was involved !

[smutcakes]

_{There is something ominous about pick-up truck in Thailand.}

_{And all these innocent victims...}

_{The10 years old on motorbikes are way less threatening....}

R.I.P. to the people killed in this terrible accident.

What is ominous about pickup trucks in Thailand? Most victims in accidents are innocent.

This was a case of a cement truck hitting the bus head on. No fault of the bus driver and certainly not the pickup driver who was following the bus.

I beg to differ. as do most sensible drivers I like to maintain my braking distance from anything in front of me. I appreciate that that is a very difficult thing to do in Thailand where passing on the inside (suicide?) is common. A characteristic trait of Thais is their me, me, me attitude. If you hit something up the ass in the UK then bang goes your no claims bonus - if you survive.

To be fair there is often little option other than to pass on the inside. For every dangerous driver weaving in and out at high speed, there are also poorly trained drivers tootling along at 50km/h in the quick/overtaking lane giving people no viable alternative to undertaking. The most difficult thing about maintaining break distances is if you leave anything more than a cars length, someone will go into it!

[lemonjelly]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

19 dead,no way 19 would have died with impact injuries,there was no rear exit from that bus in all probability

How on earth do you just pluck statements like that out of thin air? You kid yourself and it is irresponsible to others who 'may' listen to you. Many studies have been done on the risk of severe injury or fatal injury as a result of a frontal or side impact between two vehicles. The way researchers calculate is not simply on the speed of the vehicle but on the relative instant change in velocity, this is known as Delta V . So if two vehicles collide at 30mph head on they will immediately come to rest their Delta V will be 30 mph. If one vehicle is stationary and the other hits at 30mph the delta V of both vehicles will be 15 mph. If you have a head on crash where your Delta V is 43mph your risk of serious injury will be 100% and that is for people wearing seat belts!! If you crash with a Delta V of 65mph you have a 95% chance of fatality, again that is wearing a seat belt.

How many people on the bus were wearing a seat belt?

How fast was the bus going down hill? (if he was doing 120kph - 80mph and the cement truck crossed the road AND was stationary at the time of impact then everyone on board the bus would have suffered a Delta V of 40 mph giving a 60% chance of fatality...IF they were wearing a seat belt, much higher if they were not. So to answer your point, the chances of 19 people being 'taken out' by the impact would be extremely high either because the impact would be fatal or they would have suffered serious injury prior to the onset of fire.

By the way if you see a head on crash is inevitable and cannot be avoided, brake hard for sure but DO NOT try and manouver the car in to a side impact position. Your chances of survival with a side impact are severely impaired compared to a head on. There is a very high probability that all passengers would sustain broken necks at Delta V's in the order of 40 mph.

For anyone interested I dug out this paper I read a couple of years ago concerning car/pedestrian impacts and car/car impacts.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/pgr-roadsafety-research-rsrr-theme5-researchreport16-pdf/rswp116.pdf

the research paper you linked does not cover bus passengers...<<This study has explored the relationship between speed and the risk of being killed for three groups of casualties: pedestrians hit by the front of a car, belted car drivers involved in a frontal impact with another car, and belted car drivers in side impacts with another car.>>

Edited July 23, 2013 by lemonjelly

[MaxYakov]

_{There is something ominous about pick-up truck in Thailand.}

_{And all these innocent victims...}

_{The10 years old on motorbikes are way less threatening....}

Yeah, right! Unless you're on a motorbike, bicycle or walking and due to his inexperience/poor judgment, what have you, he/she loses it and wipes you out.

[GentlemanJim]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

19 dead,no way 19 would have died with impact injuries,there was no rear exit from that bus in all probability

How on earth do you just pluck statements like that out of thin air? You kid yourself and it is irresponsible to others who 'may' listen to you. Many studies have been done on the risk of severe injury or fatal injury as a result of a frontal or side impact between two vehicles. The way researchers calculate is not simply on the speed of the vehicle but on the relative instant change in velocity, this is known as Delta V . So if two vehicles collide at 30mph head on they will immediately come to rest their Delta V will be 30 mph. If one vehicle is stationary and the other hits at 30mph the delta V of both vehicles will be 15 mph. If you have a head on crash where your Delta V is 43mph your risk of serious injury will be 100% and that is for people wearing seat belts!! If you crash with a Delta V of 65mph you have a 95% chance of fatality, again that is wearing a seat belt.

How many people on the bus were wearing a seat belt?

How fast was the bus going down hill? (if he was doing 120kph - 80mph and the cement truck crossed the road AND was stationary at the time of impact then everyone on board the bus would have suffered a Delta V of 40 mph giving a 60% chance of fatality...IF they were wearing a seat belt, much higher if they were not. So to answer your point, the chances of 19 people being 'taken out' by the impact would be extremely high either because the impact would be fatal or they would have suffered serious injury prior to the onset of fire.

By the way if you see a head on crash is inevitable and cannot be avoided, brake hard for sure but DO NOT try and manouver the car in to a side impact position. Your chances of survival with a side impact are severely impaired compared to a head on. There is a very high probability that all passengers would sustain broken necks at Delta V's in the order of 40 mph.

For anyone interested I dug out this paper I read a couple of years ago concerning car/pedestrian impacts and car/car impacts.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/pgr-roadsafety-research-rsrr-theme5-researchreport16-pdf/rswp116.pdf

the research paper you linked does not cover bus passengers...<<This study has explored the relationship between speed and the risk of being killed for three groups of casualties: pedestrians hit by the front of a car, belted car drivers involved in a frontal impact with another car, and belted car drivers in side impacts with another car.>>

A quite unbelievable reply. If you are unable to extrapolate the data which is mostly a direct result of Newtons laws then i feel sorry for you. The injuries to the body are caused by the amount of deceleration in this case, at certain rates of instant deceleration your vital organs are ripped from their 'mounts' within the chesy cavity. The vehicular results are a very clear guide for those wearing seatbelts in a car. For passengers in a bus unrestrained they experience the same deceleration often with rolling which compunds your problems of survival. I give up sometimes i really do!

[salapau]

Very sad of course, however bus and van accidents appear on this site so often. I live in the Mae Hong Son district and apart from using a motor bike or my pick up locally I rarely travel on the main routes between her and Chiang Mai. When I do I am horrified at the chances taken frequently by drivers ovetaking on blind corners or just choosing to drive on the wrong side of the road to save a few seconds. Most coach and mini van drivers have no patience and no thought of their passengers and other motorists.

[Salapoo]

The thing is... will they learn from it?

Hell no!

[Farangdam]

too fast bus, too fast truck, too fast car, too fast rodtuu too fast motorbike on toooo furious road.. Condolence to the family

[oldsailor35]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

19 dead,no way 19 would have died with impact injuries,there was no rear exit from that bus in all probability

Or as they say .......Sort of a rough guess !

[beautifulthailand99]

I've just got back to Bangkok after travelling through there this morning at about 5 am. Loads of emergency vehicles. I was still passing ambulances in convoy going the opposite way lights ablazing on Mittraparp in Autthaya. It happened between Muak Lek and Saraburi on the Saraburi side of that massive TPI chemical/concrete plant.

Very sad RIP to everyone have been on that road past that spot quite a few times over the years.

[oldsailor35]

RIP to the victims. It seems like there has been an unusually high number of bus and van accidents lately?

You can safetly say, its a regular occurance!

[oldsailor35]

Words fails me, I'm lost as to what to say to such tragedy,

Why bother, by this time next week, neither the govt., nor the police will care less........mai pen lai.

[oldsailor35]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

There is another safety issue: the cement truck driver was falling asleep at the wheel. When I feel drowsy while driving, I do something reasonable about it: like pulling over and resting. Why did that driver not have the smallest bit of common sense to do that? Too late for such a question. Tragedy.

Because he was probably being paid by the trip !

[mrtoad]

The carnage will continue as long as the poor safety standards remain. More robust issuing of licenses and driving tests would be a start, along with much more stringent and proper enforcement of Road laws, on drivers by the BIB (we can hope).

I recently drove from Trat to Kanchanaburi and back, some of the driving I saw in particular Lorry's, souped up pick up trucks and buses was quite frightening. That is not including the cars.

The sad thing is, that such a large percentage of these accidents could be avoided.

[oldsailor35]

OK yes the speed at which the Thai's drive has a hell of a lot to do with accidents, but in my opinion, every damned road accident falls directly in the lap of the LAZY Thai police whose only intention as i see it , is to look for more 'tea money'. They either do not know how to police road rules or could'nt care less. At Song Kran i was stopped waiting for a green light, when a Toyota pick up smacked me fair in the rear of my 5 mth old Vios. pushing me into the car in front, i jumped out to see if the lady in front, who was screaming like hell, was badly injured. The guy behind then backed out and took off. I managed to get his details. When i gave them to the police, they told me to forget it as i was fully insured. Now that is bloody lazyness in my book ! The cost to my insurance was Bht140,000 plus more to the car in front. Until the police are made to do their job there will always be accidents. The guy who hit me was probably unlicenced, un insured and drunk. But the police could'nt care less.

[mok199]

in my experiences in thailand over the last 18 years,all of my worst have been either in a taxi,a motorcylcle taxi or a bus,this will never change...the roads here are so f*$#ing dangerous,and combine that with trusting your life with someone else and in a vehicle that may be,well below the saftey standard....

[lee b]

I feel sick yet again ! RIP to all the victims who died using this terrible transport mode

[prakhonchai nick]

OK yes the speed at which the Thai's drive has a hell of a lot to do with accidents, but in my opinion, every damned road accident falls directly in the lap of the LAZY Thai police whose only intention as i see it , is to look for more 'tea money'. They either do not know how to police road rules or could'nt care less. At Song Kran i was stopped waiting for a green light, when a Toyota pick up smacked me fair in the rear of my 5 mth old Vios. pushing me into the car in front, i jumped out to see if the lady in front, who was screaming like hell, was badly injured. The guy behind then backed out and took off. I managed to get his details. When i gave them to the police, they told me to forget it as i was fully insured. Now that is bloody lazyness in my book ! The cost to my insurance was Bht140,000 plus more to the car in front. Until the police are made to do their job there will always be accidents. The guy who hit me was probably unlicenced, un insured and drunk. But the police could'nt care less.

Surely your insurance company should have followed up. They-through the Police -have access to registration records.

[edwinchester]

OK yes the speed at which  the Thai's drive has  a hell of a lot to do with accidents, but in my opinion, every damned road accident falls directly in the lap of the LAZY  Thai police whose only intention as i see it , is to look for more 'tea money'. They either do not know how to police road rules or could'nt care less. At Song Kran  i was stopped waiting for a green light, when a Toyota pick up smacked me fair in the rear of my 5 mth old Vios. pushing me into the car in front, i jumped out to see if the lady in front, who was screaming like hell, was badly injured. The guy behind then backed out and took off. I managed to get his details. When i gave them to the police, they told me to forget it as i was fully insured. Now that is bloody lazyness in my book !  The cost to my insurance was Bht140,000 plus more to the car in front. Until the police are made to do their job there will always be accidents. The guy who hit me was probably unlicenced, un insured and drunk. But the police could'nt care less.

Hopefully you gave details of the car that hit you and did a runner to your own insurance company. They had a very real interest in chasing after the driver to recover their own costs.

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