Australia to Send Refugees to Papua New Guinea

[Sing_Sling]

What I hate about these so called refugees, which they aren't is that they prevent real people in need of getting into the country and they also make it harder for real tourists who want a visa.

My wife has now been going through a 3 month ordeal just to get a visa to Australia to visit Family for Xmas.

She has an Australian son/husband but has to produce so much I.D, passport, Identity card, bank statements, declare all assets in Thailand and abroad. We had to attend an interview at the Embassy in Bangkok so I could say she is who she say's she is. my son (6 yrs old) declares this is my mum and dad. We produce birth certificates, passports and his Australian citizenship papers.

She owns land in Australia and has lived in Australia. We are told that DFAT are applying more stringent checks on identity of persons applying for visa's.

Why the f*&ck don't they apply the same rules to these bloody boat people. If my wife can't produce identity and prove beyond all reasonable doubt then she can't get in. If these lowlifes can't do the bloody same why the hell do they get in.

Jump on a boat you get in. Be upfront ant legal then you jump through hoops and wait your turn as illegal people are more important than a mother to her child.

I hate Australia with a passion and hate being born in that racist country.

Sorry to hear about your wife.

But you either want strict border controls or you don't.

A bit rich saying 'well we are different'. If you want to go down that route, queue jumping is queue jumping.

That's just the point, though, isn't it . . . people like chooka only see as far as their nose in issues like this - and possibly all issues who knows - and it is a widespread phenomena among the like-minded and education-lacking.

He hates Australia with a passion because it is a racist country . . . well, really because the athorities are simply doing the right thing . . . and you can just hear him going on about 'paying taxes/paying your salary' etc . . .

[samran]

What I hate about these so called refugees, which they aren't is that they prevent real people in need of getting into the country and they also make it harder for real tourists who want a visa.

My wife has now been going through a 3 month ordeal just to get a visa to Australia to visit Family for Xmas.

She has an Australian son/husband but has to produce so much I.D, passport, Identity card, bank statements, declare all assets in Thailand and abroad. We had to attend an interview at the Embassy in Bangkok so I could say she is who she say's she is. my son (6 yrs old) declares this is my mum and dad. We produce birth certificates, passports and his Australian citizenship papers.

She owns land in Australia and has lived in Australia. We are told that DFAT are applying more stringent checks on identity of persons applying for visa's.

Why the f*&ck don't they apply the same rules to these bloody boat people. If my wife can't produce identity and prove beyond all reasonable doubt then she can't get in. If these lowlifes can't do the bloody same why the hell do they get in.

Jump on a boat you get in. Be upfront ant legal then you jump through hoops and wait your turn as illegal people are more important than a mother to her child.

I hate Australia with a passion and hate being born in that racist country.

Sorry to hear about your wife.

But you either want strict border controls or you don't.

A bit rich saying 'well we are different'. If you want to go down that route, queue jumping is queue jumping.

That's just the point, though, isn't it . . . people like chooka only see as far as their nose in issues like this - and possibly all issues who knows - and it is a widespread phenomena among the like-minded and education-lacking.

He hates Australia with a passion because it is a racist country . . . well, really because the athorities are simply doing the right thing . . . and you can just hear him going on about 'paying taxes/paying your salary' etc . . .

The short sightedness made people easy to scare, and Tony Abott turned that into an art form. Australian history is littered with scare campaigns targeting two things, their hip pocket, or their prejudices.

What I despair about in OZ, and OZ culture, is that it is always 'someone elses fault'. Be it the refugees', dole bludgers, those nasty foreign investors, the Indonesians, you name it. Never 'oh, i took out a mortgage I couldn't afford, I shouldn't gotten such a high CC limit, or, I didn't get my ducks lined up in a row and got the paperwork sorted for my wife's visa...'

[Sing_Sling]

What I hate about these so called refugees, which they aren't is that they prevent real people in need of getting into the country and they also make it harder for real tourists who want a visa.

My wife has now been going through a 3 month ordeal just to get a visa to Australia to visit Family for Xmas.

She has an Australian son/husband but has to produce so much I.D, passport, Identity card, bank statements, declare all assets in Thailand and abroad. We had to attend an interview at the Embassy in Bangkok so I could say she is who she say's she is. my son (6 yrs old) declares this is my mum and dad. We produce birth certificates, passports and his Australian citizenship papers.

She owns land in Australia and has lived in Australia. We are told that DFAT are applying more stringent checks on identity of persons applying for visa's.

Why the f*&ck don't they apply the same rules to these bloody boat people. If my wife can't produce identity and prove beyond all reasonable doubt then she can't get in. If these lowlifes can't do the bloody same why the hell do they get in.

Jump on a boat you get in. Be upfront ant legal then you jump through hoops and wait your turn as illegal people are more important than a mother to her child.

I hate Australia with a passion and hate being born in that racist country.

Sorry to hear about your wife.

But you either want strict border controls or you don't.

A bit rich saying 'well we are different'. If you want to go down that route, queue jumping is queue jumping.

That's just the point, though, isn't it . . . people like chooka only see as far as their nose in issues like this - and possibly all issues who knows - and it is a widespread phenomena among the like-minded and education-lacking.

He hates Australia with a passion because it is a racist country . . . well, really because the athorities are simply doing the right thing . . . and you can just hear him going on about 'paying taxes/paying your salary' etc . . .

The short sighteness made people easy to scare, and Tony Abott turned that into an art from. Australian history is littered with scare campaigns targeting two things, their hip pocket, or their predjudices.

What I dispair about in OZ, and OZ culture, is that it is always 'someone elses fault'. Be it the refugees', dole bludgers, those nasty foreign investors, the Indonesians, you name it. Never 'oh, i took out a mortgage I couldn't afford, I shouldn't gotten such a high CC limit, or, I didn't get my ducks lined up in a row and got the paperwork sorted for my wife's visa...'

You're not wrong there at all, Samran. I grew up in Sydney's eastern suburbs and quite a few of our neighbours were Jewish - every single one of them came to Oz penniless after the war . . . they worked their <deleted> off and became wealthy. Bloody hook-nose money-lenders, eh! Came to 'our' country and took real Aussies' wealth!!!

Yea, I've heard it far too often . . . it's either the tall poppy syndrome or someone else's fault.

Aussies? How lucky they are to be in the 'Lucky Country' or they'd be dirt-poor elsewhere

[BookMan]

What I hate about these so called refugees, which they aren't is that they prevent real people in need of getting into the country and they also make it harder for real tourists who want a visa.

My wife has now been going through a 3 month ordeal just to get a visa to Australia to visit Family for Xmas.

She has an Australian son/husband but has to produce so much I.D, passport, Identity card, bank statements, declare all assets in Thailand and abroad. We had to attend an interview at the Embassy in Bangkok so I could say she is who she say's she is. my son (6 yrs old) declares this is my mum and dad. We produce birth certificates, passports and his Australian citizenship papers.

She owns land in Australia and has lived in Australia. We are told that DFAT are applying more stringent checks on identity of persons applying for visa's.

Why the f*&ck don't they apply the same rules to these bloody boat people. If my wife can't produce identity and prove beyond all reasonable doubt then she can't get in. If these lowlifes can't do the bloody same why the hell do they get in.

Jump on a boat you get in. Be upfront ant legal then you jump through hoops and wait your turn as illegal people are more important than a mother to her child.

I hate Australia with a passion and hate being born in that racist country.

Sorry to hear about your wife.

But you either want strict border controls or you don't.

A bit rich saying 'well we are different'. If you want to go down that route, queue jumping is queue jumping.

That's just the point, though, isn't it . . . people like chooka only see as far as their nose in issues like this - and possibly all issues who knows - and it is a widespread phenomena among the like-minded and education-lacking.

He hates Australia with a passion because it is a racist country . . . well, really because the athorities are simply doing the right thing . . . and you can just hear him going on about 'paying taxes/paying your salary' etc . . .

I can see it was an early morning (or late night) post from chooka...The harshness of his opinion may change in the clearer light of day (?)

[samran]

You're not wrong there at all, Samran. I grew up in Sydney's eastern suburbs and quite a few of our neighbours were Jewish - every single one of them came to Oz penniless after the war . . . they worked their <deleted> off and became wealthy. Bloody hook-nose money-lenders, eh! Came to 'our' country and took real Aussies' wealth!!!

Bloody boat people, what good are they?

When they escaped Germany after Krystalnacht they should have gone to the nearest safe neighbouring country shouldn't they? I hear France was a good option at the time, and Russia had a peace pact with the Germans.

I wonder what travel documents they used, given that Hitler took away their German citizenship. And the ones who survived the concenration camps, yep, they should have returned home after the war...no need for them to come to OZ. We didn't need them, and look at the chaos they've caused.

[David48]

So for a bloke that hates his country with a passion for doing the right thing and wishing he was not born there, he had better ask himself, if Australia is that bad a place, why then are people willing to face death to come here.

WHY ... because economically Australia is a better option then their home Country.

'Facing Death' ... ... just for emphasis ...

The family who paid $80 - $100 K (I forget which) were told that they were taking the equivalent of a Cruise Ship to Australia.

When, after paying their Airfares from Europe to Asia, in Indonesia, they were forced with being loaded on a 'fishing boat' ... they were told that, because of the shallow waters, they needed to use it as a Tender vessel to get to the Cruise Ship.

They were expecting a cruise ship.

WHY ???

Because that's what the People Smuggler told them would take them to their new lifestyle in Australia.

The Criminal who organised this made an estimated $600,000.

You do know that (apparently) every family who took up his offer actually visited him in Prison in Indonesia where he was serving time for knifing a Saudi on the Dance Floor.

So ... just think about this ... you've paid tens of thousands of dollars to get your family to Australia ... you meet the head honcho in an Indonesian Jail ...

Nough Said ...

Bleeding Hearts ... stop ... please ... you are making me all kind of misty here ...

Where do I wish to see the focus of the Refugee Program?

Vietnamese refugees at the Pulau Bidong refugee camp in Malaysia. This camp has about 36,000 Vietnamese refugees.

Because everyone of these Economic Refugees we accept is one less poor bugger who has spent years is a camp like this, patiently awaiting their time to call Australia home.

Australia needs a diversified Refugee program based on needs, the current UNHCR Program ... not on who has enough money to jump the queue.

.

.

[simple1]

@David48: Fair enough to post an opinion, but do not repeatedly post misinformation, You have been informed on numerous occasions there is no such thing as a 'queue', even the UNHCR states this as does an official Australian government website, quoted below.. Those who are assessed as economic refugees are denied entry.

Is there a queue?

No. If UNHCR assesses a refugee to be eligible for resettlement it does not mean that they have joined an orderly ‘queue’, and that they will be guaranteed resettlement to another country when their ‘number comes up’. The fact is that though they may be assessed as eligible for resettlement by UNHCR, in reality they face a potentially indefinite waiting period for a resettlement country to offer them a resettlement place (depending on their individual needs) and even then, the ultimate decision as to whether they will be granted a refugee visa is dependent on the country which has agreed in principle to resettle them.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2011-2012/RefugeeResettlement#_Toc310921304

EDIT: Indonesia has suspended co-operation with Australia on people smuggling

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesian-president-sby-orders-end-to-cooperation-over-people-smuggling-20131120-2xvit.html

Edited November 20, 2013 by simple1

[David48]

@David48: Fair enough to post an opinion, but do not repeatedly post misinformation, You have been informed on numerous occasions there is no such thing as a 'queue', even the UNHCR states this

"You (David48) have been informed on numerous occasions there is no such thing as a 'queue', even the UNHCR states this" ... oh please ...

... simple1 is now an expert of refugees ... he's reflective of the broader Australian opinion on the subject ... and has insight in the inner workings of the UNHCR ... beyond that of their employees.

You say ...

He says ...

She says ...

Don't give me the opinion pieces you represent as 'Facts'.

Show me the bit where the UNHCR states that there is no queue.

Everything else is just hearsay.

I offered you the hand of friendship through a PM ... to play the man and not the ball ... but no, you rejected this ... you have decided to personalise this.

Let the Forum know of this.

[samran]

Dunno why broader Australian opinion is somehow an authorative opinion on this either. Or are all Australian UNHCR experts?

Fact is, governments do deals all the time. This year we'll up our African intake, in the 80's it was a focus in Indochinese resettlement. One brother gets settled in France, another the US. It is far from systematic.

[David48]

Dunno why broader Australian opinion is somehow an authorative opinion on this either. Or are all Australian UNHCR experts?

Fact is, governments do deals all the time. This year we'll up our African intake, in the 80's it was a focus in Indochinese resettlement. One brother gets settled in France, another the US. It is far from systematic.

The voice of reason ...

Can't 'like' it (have run out) so a ... +1

BTW ... I know you are countering my post ... just that you are both Open Minded about it ... and Diplomatic in the process.

We can all learn a little from this ...

[Sing_Sling]

You're not wrong there at all, Samran. I grew up in Sydney's eastern suburbs and quite a few of our neighbours were Jewish - every single one of them came to Oz penniless after the war . . . they worked their <deleted> off and became wealthy. Bloody hook-nose money-lenders, eh! Came to 'our' country and took real Aussies' wealth!!!

Bloody boat people, what good are they?

When they escaped Germany after Krystalnacht they should have gone to the nearest safe neighbouring country shouldn't they? I hear France was a good option at the time, and Russia had a peace pact with the Germans.

I wonder what travel documents they used, given that Hitler took away their German citizenship. And the ones who survived the concenration camps, yep, they should have returned home after the war...no need for them to come to OZ. We didn't need them, and look at the chaos they've caused.

Yea, the bastards . . .

I can see the rationale of posting irreverent one-liners instead of practicing intelligent discourse . .. it's easier

[simple1]

@David48: Fair enough to post an opinion, but do not repeatedly post misinformation, You have been informed on numerous occasions there is no such thing as a 'queue', even the UNHCR states this

"You (David48) have been informed on numerous occasions there is no such thing as a 'queue', even the UNHCR states this" ... oh please ...

... simple1 is now an expert of refugees ... he's reflective of the broader Australian opinion on the subject ... and has insight in the inner workings of the UNHCR ... beyond that of their employees.

You say ...

He says ...

She says ...

Don't give me the opinion pieces you represent as 'Facts'.

Show me the bit where the UNHCR states that there is no queue.

Everything else is just hearsay.

I offered you the hand of friendship through a PM ... to play the man and not the ball ... but no, you rejected this ... you have decided to personalise this.

Let the Forum know of this.

As you are such a stickler for TV protocol, just mentioning it's against TV forum rules to publically refer to PM conversations.

I have not personalised just calling out that people posting opinions camouflaged as facts is deliberate misinformation.

Don’t know why the content from the Australian Parliament public record (with footnotes) is insufficient. However, I repeat there is not a 'queue' and as you will recall recently demonstrated by the government’s decision to prioritise entry for some Syrian refugees. A confirming quote from the UNHCR URL below that also provides a detailed insight to UNHCR resettlement policy and procedures. Of course if you could be bothered, info easily available to verify prior to posting snide comments.

"UNHCR recognizes that different priorities should be used to help manage specific resettlement needs. Emergency cases, which typically involve immediate life-threatening situations, are expected to depart for resettlement within a period not exceeding seven days; urgent cases should depart within six weeks; and normal priority cases are to be resettled within 12 months"

My words: Only 80k plus vetted have been resettled in the past 12 months, leaves another 800k to be resettled over time. Those already identified for resettlement can at any time be supplanted / reprioritised as new events unfold e.g. Syria

http://www.unhcr.org/4ac0873d6.pdf

[Scott]

Here's the rule that is being referred to:

20) Not to post personal messages from other members, whether in full or in part.

Stating that a PM has been sent is not against the rule, but the current discussion is going quite far off-topic. Please be civil and stay on the topic.

It is an emotional topic and has been handled in a very mature manner. Continuing in that vein would be greatly appreciated.

[theslime]

at one time in my life i was living with 3 afghan refugees that where trying to get anywhere, they told me that the singapore un guy asked for a bribe, anyway they got sent to canada from bali. one guy had a misshapen head and i was told that a rocket hit his house killing all his family and nearly him. some posters think, what, that they all come from Iran.the reason we are going to send refugees to PNG is the racist redneck voters have spoken, no charity here m8 son*(expletive deleted out)*and let our good conservative Gov keep winning elections. as our pm is a catholic i declare that i recind my catholic education and will try and study bod as the Charitable way forward.

[samran]

You're not wrong there at all, Samran. I grew up in Sydney's eastern suburbs and quite a few of our neighbours were Jewish - every single one of them came to Oz penniless after the war . . . they worked their <deleted> off and became wealthy. Bloody hook-nose money-lenders, eh! Came to 'our' country and took real Aussies' wealth!!!

Bloody boat people, what good are they?

When they escaped Germany after Krystalnacht they should have gone to the nearest safe neighbouring country shouldn't they? I hear France was a good option at the time, and Russia had a peace pact with the Germans.

I wonder what travel documents they used, given that Hitler took away their German citizenship. And the ones who survived the concenration camps, yep, they should have returned home after the war...no need for them to come to OZ. We didn't need them, and look at the chaos they've caused.

Yea, the bastards . . .

I can see the rationale of posting irreverent one-liners instead of practicing intelligent discourse . .. it's easier

Time to pull out my Paul Keating book of insults I guess...

[Sing_Sling]

at one time in my life i was living with 3 afghan refugees that where trying to get anywhere, they told me that the singapore un guy asked for a bribe, anyway they got sent to canada from bali. one guy had a misshapen head and i was told that a rocket hit his house killing all his family and nearly him. some posters think, what, that they all come from Iran.the reason we are going to send refugees to PNG is the racist redneck voters have spoken, no charity here m8 son*(expletive deleted out)*and let our good conservative Gov keep winning elections. as our pm is a catholic i declare that i recind my catholic education and will try and study bod as the Charitable way forward.

Instead of ragging on conservative governments en gros and 'racist redneck voters' may I suggest making sense in the first part of your diatribe

Bloody boat people, what good are they?

When they escaped Germany after Krystalnacht they should have gone to the nearest safe neighbouring country shouldn't they? I hear France was a good option at the time, and Russia had a peace pact with the Germans.

I wonder what travel documents they used, given that Hitler took away their German citizenship. And the ones who survived the concenration camps, yep, they should have returned home after the war...no need for them to come to OZ. We didn't need them, and look at the chaos they've caused.

Yea, the bastards . . .

I can see the rationale of posting irreverent one-liners instead of practicing intelligent discourse . .. it's easier

Time to pull out my Paul Keating book of insults I guess...

Ah, Keating . . .

To Wilson Tuckey: "You boxhead you wouldn't know. You are flat out counting past ten."

[David48]

Actually the Keating Interviews are on the ABC at the moment ... very revealing.

The one I remember is that, in reference to the opposing political leader, once disposed and then re-elected as leader of his party ...

... On Andrew Peacock: "Can a soufflé rise twice?"

I wonder what Keating's take would be on the current resettlement of the illegals to PNG?

[Sing_Sling]

Actually the Keating Interviews are on the ABC at the moment ... very revealing.

The one I remember is that, in reference to the opposing political leader, once disposed and then re-elected as leader of his party ...

... On Andrew Peacock: "Can a soufflé rise twice?"

I wonder what Keating's take would be on the current resettlement of the illegals to PNG?

The blaggard established mandatory detention of non-citizens, so you can guess . . . on the other hand he is a hypocrite so, it depends on what day of the week it is

[samran]

...Only till their claims were heard, and they were allowed move about the community, albeit in isolated Curtin. I doubt he would have resorted to dog whistling either. But I am biased.

[samran]

Actually the Keating Interviews are on the ABC at the moment ... very revealing.

The one I remember is that, in reference to the opposing political leader, once disposed and then re-elected as leader of his party ...

... On Andrew Peacock: "Can a soufflé rise twice?"

I wonder what Keating's take would be on the current resettlement of the illegals to PNG?

he probably wouldn't have called them illegals for a start, and he would have batted off the red necks like he did here during Mabo, where he didn't let predjudice get in the way of principal.

[simple1]

Actually the Keating Interviews are on the ABC at the moment ... very revealing.

The one I remember is that, in reference to the opposing political leader, once disposed and then re-elected as leader of his party ...

... On Andrew Peacock: "Can a soufflé rise twice?"

I wonder what Keating's take would be on the current resettlement of the illegals to PNG?

he probably wouldn't have called them illegals for a start, and he would have batted off the red necks like he did here during Mabo, where he didn't let predjudice get in the way of principal.

Looks like you're correct "On the issue of illegal refugees, Keating berated the ALP for not having the courage of its convictions. “One of the primary duties of a Prime Minister is to protect a country from prejudice,”

http://wheelercentre.com/dailies/post/87503bb2681e/

[Sing_Sling]

I must admit to not being a Keating fan at all - he lowered the tone and standard of politics to the rabble atmosphere we have now. It doesn't take much for Australians to return to their bogan/yob roots and Keating provided the path by setting bad examples.

Hawke was borderline, but he was a 'mate' while Keating was an antique-clock collecting Chardonnay-Laborite with an ugly stewardess wife and an opposition to same-sex marriage . . . which is ironic, of course.

Gough . . . now there was a statesman

[Will27]

I must admit to not being a Keating fan at all - he lowered the tone and standard of politics to the rabble atmosphere we have now. It doesn't take much for Australians to return to their bogan/yob roots and Keating provided the path by setting bad examples.

Hawke was borderline, but he was a 'mate' while Keating was an antique-clock collecting Chardonnay-Laborite with an ugly stewardess wife and an opposition to same-sex marriage . . . which is ironic, of course.

Gough . . . now there was a statesman

Speaking of lowering the tone, why the need to insult the mans wife?

[thaibeachlovers]

Within the first minutes of the Four Corners program the reporter visiting the village of the deceased and talks to the high level of violence in the area, kidnappings and the flow on effect of the sectarian proxy war in Syria. Don't know why this was not mentioned as a contributing driver, rather than solely commenting on the costs of doco/transportation and calling them all out as economic refugees.

Right now there is a major concern that Lebanon is heading towards another civil war, with Lebanese officials estimating there are 1.4 million Syrians in the country, including 800,000 registered refugees. Note that Lebanon is not a signatory to the UN convention for refugees and stateless persons, there is no viable legal framework or admin processes for assisting/protecting refugees or displaced persons.

Well Australia is now on it's own with the people smugglers and boats. Indoneasia has recalled it's ambassador and cut ties with Australia over the spying scandal.

Australia is also cutting the border patrol budget by 500 million and 600 jobs may also go.

Indonesia has not cut ties...though ole Tone is making a hash of it. So much for three word slogans. He won the election I guess.

I don't understand why the implication is that it is Tony's problem. It happened under Labour- just another Labour stuff up. He's caught in an impossible situation, NOT of his making.

[thaibeachlovers]

So ... a little focus back to why the 'PNG' solution was enacted.

Because it because a political issue.

Aussies can smell BS from a mile kilometre away ...

So, tonight, the ABC had their 4 Corners program on the issue as they saw it.

4 Corners - Trading Misery

WARNING - This Program contains content with may disturb some Members here

Monday 18 November 2013

In September a boat carrying 72 asylum seekers sank in stormy waters off the coast of Indonesia. Most of the people onboard drowned, many of them children.

The majority of passengers came from Lebanon. They'd been persuaded to part with hundreds of thousands of dollars to go on a vessel they had been told was seaworthy and well equipped with food and safety equipment. They had been deceived.

First up ... absolute sadness for the victims here ... the many who died on that fateful boat trip.

But ... these people paid a little under $10,000 per person to undertake this journey.

These people are economic refugees ... not asylum seekers. One family paying almost $100,000 for their fateful trip.

Just some relevancy ... Lebanon, the country from which most of these people came from has a GDP of $15,900 Australia is about $43,000.

So, we are not talking about war torn poor people here ... we are talking about economic refugees.

Guys, I get absolutely no joy writing this, no jollies, no fun, no sense of self-righteousness, just a sense of sadness that they have paid, not money, but the ultimate sacrifice.

The facts are what they are.

.

You didn't mention it, but Australia was dispatching aircraft to the aid of the sinking vessel, but they were denied entry to Indo airspace.

Perhaps it's time for Oz to restrict it's rescue efforts to outside Indo waters.

[thaibeachlovers]

at one time in my life i was living with 3 afghan refugees that where trying to get anywhere, they told me that the singapore un guy asked for a bribe, anyway they got sent to canada from bali. one guy had a misshapen head and i was told that a rocket hit his house killing all his family and nearly him. some posters think, what, that they all come from Iran.the reason we are going to send refugees to PNG is the racist redneck voters have spoken, no charity here m8 son*(expletive deleted out)*and let our good conservative Gov keep winning elections. as our pm is a catholic i declare that i recind my catholic education and will try and study bod as the Charitable way forward.

<the racist redneck voters>

Let's not forget that many ( ? most )Afghans would like to kill westerners simply for not being Muslims, and consider it acceptable to stone women to death. I think I'd rather have the rednecks than someone that wants to kill me just because I wasn't born Muslim.

[David48]

So ... a little focus back to why the 'PNG' solution was enacted.

Because it because a political issue.

Aussies can smell BS from a mile kilometre away ...

So, tonight, the ABC had their 4 Corners program on the issue as they saw it.

4 Corners - Trading Misery

WARNING - This Program contains content with may disturb some Members here

Monday 18 November 2013

In September a boat carrying 72 asylum seekers sank in stormy waters off the coast of Indonesia. Most of the people onboard drowned, many of them children.

The majority of passengers came from Lebanon. They'd been persuaded to part with hundreds of thousands of dollars to go on a vessel they had been told was seaworthy and well equipped with food and safety equipment. They had been deceived.

First up ... absolute sadness for the victims here ... the many who died on that fateful boat trip.

But ... these people paid a little under $10,000 per person to undertake this journey.

These people are economic refugees ... not asylum seekers. One family paying almost $100,000 for their fateful trip.

Just some relevancy ... Lebanon, the country from which most of these people came from has a GDP of $15,900 Australia is about $43,000.

So, we are not talking about war torn poor people here ... we are talking about economic refugees.

Guys, I get absolutely no joy writing this, no jollies, no fun, no sense of self-righteousness, just a sense of sadness that they have paid, not money, but the ultimate sacrifice.

The facts are what they are.

.

You didn't mention it, but Australia was dispatching aircraft to the aid of the sinking vessel, but they were denied entry to Indo airspace.

Perhaps it's time for Oz to restrict it's rescue efforts to outside Indo waters.

I wasn't aware if that ...

[simple1]

<the racist redneck voters>

Let's not forget that many ( ? most )Afghans would like to kill westerners simply for not being Muslims, and consider it acceptable to stone women to death. I think I'd rather have the rednecks than someone that wants to kill me just because I wasn't born Muslim.

During the 60s & 70s, Afghanistan was considered a safe place for Westeners; remember the hippy trail? All changed with the Soviet invasion and subsequent events.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christian-caryl/strange-rebels-excerpt_b_3427854.html

In places where ISAF forces had managed to secure from the extremists, stay & not return to base, reports are they were supported by the local people.

[samran]

I don't understand why the implication is that it is Tony's problem. It happened under Labour- just another Labour stuff up. He's caught in an impossible situation, NOT of his making.

Two things now...

Tony is the PM. If he wants to have a good relationship with Indonesia, he's got to do the fast talking. Pointing to someone else and saying 'he did it' doesn't work.

The other thing is that security issues are a bipartisan affair (like many parliamentary committees are). The opposition of the day has senior representation on the standing committee's which oversee security. To say he had no role or hand in things like this, is just wrong.

So it really is his problem. If he wants to 'stop the boats' he better kissy and make up with the Indo's. Otherwise they are just going to turn on the tap in a big way, and say "off you go fella's, Australia is that way...do you need a tow out to the internatonal maritime boundry?"

Turn back the boats? There is going to have to be someone who wants to take them. Or do you think Super Tone has magical powers to make those little brown indon's do what he says. Yes massa!

And if we want them to raise the quota's on Australian been imports, then even more kissy kissy make up.

Edited November 22, 2013 by samran

[Sing_Sling]

I must admit to not being a Keating fan at all - he lowered the tone and standard of politics to the rabble atmosphere we have now. It doesn't take much for Australians to return to their bogan/yob roots and Keating provided the path by setting bad examples.

Hawke was borderline, but he was a 'mate' while Keating was an antique-clock collecting Chardonnay-Laborite with an ugly stewardess wife and an opposition to same-sex marriage . . . which is ironic, of course.

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Gough . . . now there was a statesman

Speaking of lowering the tone, why the need to insult the mans wife?

I'm not sure if you realise it but this forum isn't parliament, nor do I have the floor nor am I in a position to direct the course of a nation.

These are just the small differences . . . but I shall look forward to seeing your results in scouring this forum during your valiant efforts to make this den of iniquity squeaky clean.