Keep Buddhism out of same-sex marriage debate, activist advises

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EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
Keep Buddhism out of same-sex marriage debate, activist advises
Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) activists should try not to get trapped in a debate with Buddhists on whether Buddhism allows same-sex marriage, to avoid complicating matters, said Anjana Suvarnananda, pioneer LGBT activist and co-founder of Anjana Suvarnananda.

While some members of the House of Representatives are pushing for a draft law for same-sex civil union, Anjana believes Buddhists who may hold an anti-LGBT stance should not be alarmed into complicating the situation.

"No monks have ever spoken through the media to denounce gays or lesbians. This is perhaps because they may see the matter as worldly," Anjana told The Nation. Anjana suggests that Buddhists should be more concerned about the degradation of Buddhism in Thailand in areas such as the growing popularity among Thais of taking a trip to pay respects to nine temples in the hope of accruing good merit - and the lack of loving kindness amongst some self-professed Buddhists.

"Some [of these people] donated money they cheated from others to temples - and yet they get recognition. We should pay more attention to such issues," said Anjana, stressing that Buddhism fundamentally sees human beings as equals, so same-sex marriage should be acceptable to Buddhists. What's more, said Anjana, Thailand is a secular state and religious teaching should not influence laws or infringe on the rights of minorities, such as gays and lesbians.

Prominent social critic and Buddhist scholar Sulak Sivaraksa said according to Buddhist teachings, lay people can have sex and it doesn't matter whether they're same sex or not. "It's normal," he said, adding that Buddhism doesn't see sex as primarily for pro-creation, unlike in Christianity and Islam.

Another Buddhist scholar, Suraphot Thaweesak, said Buddhism only sees extra-marital affairs as wrong, but not same-sex marriage.

He warned, however, that many Buddhists are conservative and may put up a resistance and the only way to reform Thai Theravada Buddhism into becoming more open and liberal is to take the Sangha order away from the control and supervision of the state.


-- The Nation 2013-07-27

[johnlandy]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

[Frank James]

I don't think that Thailand can be considered a "secular state", when there are so many official Buddhist holidays, when the great majority of Thais practice what passes for "Buddhism" in Thailand. It's a State Religion, in fact if not officially.

[CIHUAHUA]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

Buddhism is not a religion it is a philosophy of how to live and avoid suffering. A religion has the concept of God at its center. To say that Buddhism should not be included in the topic of "same-sex-marriage" is incorrect. Buddhism is concerned with helping others not loving others.

[ChrisB87]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

Buddhism is quite different, in my opinion, but i am no expert.

The other religions mentioned, i think, are (as already mentioned) very procreation and, for that reason, disagree with sex which isn't in attempt of reproduction. Buddhism, on the other hand, isn't procreation at all, in fact quite the opposite. Therefor Buddhism doesn't disagree with condoms, gay sex etc etc. That is not to say it agrees with it either (all sense pleasures are considered harmful in Buddhism)

I don't think that Thailand can be considered a "secular state", when there are so many official Buddhist holidays, when the great majority of Thais practice what passes for "Buddhism" in Thailand. It's a State Religion, in fact if not officially.

I have to disagree with "great majority of Thais practice what passes for Buddhism".

I barely see any form of what Buddhism is about here.

Most people here don't want to do any of the work themselves - they don't even want to try to walk the path Buddha pointed out.

Instead they pray, ask for things/help, perform a ritual hoping it will do something for them (spiritually, or in any other way) - none of this is Buddhism.

Only by (at least) trying to work with the mind to become detached from desire can a person practice Buddhism.

[camerata]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

The original scriptures of some religions condemn homosexuality. This is not the case with Theravada Buddhism.

[johnlandy]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

Buddhism is not a religion it is a philosophy of how to live and avoid suffering. A religion has the concept of God at its center. To say that Buddhism should not be included in the topic of "same-sex-marriage" is incorrect. Buddhism is concerned with helping others not loving others.

Well then I must have missed something. There are beggars on every corner of the 'big mango' and elsewhere. Who is helping them?

And the two million demimondaines, yes, I imagine that they are helping millions of guys get their rocks off each week 'for a monetary consideration of course' And of course there are the monks like the guy in Si Sa Ket

currently on the run who did a good job of helping people 'none more so than himself' I guess that is fair enough as 'charity begins at home' after all

[tingtongteesood]

I beg to differ, Buddhism is a religion except rather than heaven and hell at the end, they believe in reincarnation, similar concept. They have their holy book the Ramayana. The have churches ( temples ) and try to do good deeds in return for a better reincarnation ( afterlife ) It is the same as any god worshipping religion except they do not pray to god.

[CUNJU]

so many different opinions!!

[Loptr]

I beg to differ, Buddhism is a religion except rather than heaven and hell at the end, they believe in reincarnation, similar concept. They have their holy book the Ramayana. The have churches ( temples ) and try to do good deeds in return for a better reincarnation ( afterlife ) It is the same as any god worshipping religion except they do not pray to god.

Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. It is man that has altered the dogma for their own purposes.

[rockyysdt]

I beg to differ, Buddhism is a religion except rather than heaven and hell at the end, they believe in reincarnation, similar concept. They have their holy book the Ramayana. The have churches ( temples ) and try to do good deeds in return for a better reincarnation ( afterlife ) It is the same as any god worshipping religion except they do not pray to god.

It depends on a number of things, but put simply, Buddhism is both or either religion and philosophy.

The Buddhas original teachings were about practicing to become "Awakened".

If you consider that "religions" developed due to man kinds fear of total obliteration/non existence after death, then seekers, disillusioned with obvious mythology (most religions), may have found that deifying the Buddha and Buddhism a good option.

The Buddha gave us a system of practice, without which it is useless.

As effort is required to practice, aversion to effort makes the religious side of Buddhism appealing.

Simply praying and donating to gain good luck and a better life/next life is relatively effortless.

It is easy to pray to someone else to give you what you seek (immortality & good life).

In terms of "same sex" issues, true Buddhists would practice observing without attachment.

Observe the breath, body, feelings, emotions and thought, but do not attach.

Soon they will float away.

Edited July 28, 2013 by rockyysdt

[ChrisB87]

I beg to differ, Buddhism is a religion except rather than heaven and hell at the end, they believe in reincarnation, similar concept. They have their holy book the Ramayana. The have churches ( temples ) and try to do good deeds in return for a better reincarnation ( afterlife ) It is the same as any god worshipping religion except they do not pray to god.

Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. It is man that has altered the dogma for their own purposes.

Exactly, unfortunately man has turned it into a religion (like in Thailand). I see Buddhism, in Thailand, becoming more and more Christian like:

Praying to Buddha as though he is some divine spirit who can actually grant a wish

Believing that hell is an actual place where you go, rather than simply a metaphor for suffering (my GF will not accept this - she maintains heaven and hell are places, not mental states of existence, lol)

Focusing on ritual, rather than mental effort to attain the goal

But usually among practicing mediators you find the understand the Dhamma and what is and isn't - and of course a mediator can be from any religion, nor have a religion at all.

There really is no such thing as Buddhism, nor should it have been given a name (the irony ). Giving it a name was the first step to it becoming just another religion.

[rockyysdt]

Exactly, unfortunately man has turned it into a religion (like in Thailand). I see Buddhism, in Thailand, becoming more and more Christian like:

Praying to Buddha as though he is some divine spirit who can actually grant a wish

Believing that hell is an actual place where you go, rather than simply a metaphor for suffering (my GF will not accept this - she maintains heaven and hell are places, not mental states of existence, lol)

Focusing on ritual, rather than mental effort to attain the goal

But usually among practicing mediators you find the understand the Dhamma and what is and isn't - and of course a mediator can be from any religion, nor have a religion at all.

There really is no such thing as Buddhism, nor should it have been given a name (the irony ). Giving it a name was the first step to it becoming just another religion.

You can go one step further and acknowledge "that which is metaphysical is beyond the understanding of the physical".

The metaphysical may be, or may not be.

Better to focus on the physical and the prescribed practice.

With practice, what one experiences will unfold of its own accord.

Until then attaching to either the non existence or existence of the metaphysical are both attachment.

Edited July 28, 2013 by rockyysdt

[sabaijai]

The topic is not whether Buddhism is a religion or philosophy. Pls stay on topic, thanks.

[newermonkey]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

Because the Buddha never declared himself to be divine as the other religions profits did. In fact Buddhism is not a religion (thank god!).

[orchis]

I beg to differ, Buddhism is a religion except rather than heaven and hell at the end, they believe in reincarnation, similar concept. They have their holy book the Ramayana. The have churches ( temples ) and try to do good deeds in return for a better reincarnation ( afterlife ) It is the same as any god worshipping religion except they do not pray to god.

LOL.

[hookedondhamma]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

The original scriptures of some religions condemn homosexuality. This is not the case with Theravada Buddhism.

Gays are not allowed to ordain afaik...

...also practising gays are not gonna accumulate good karma methinks...

I think the issue of gay marriage has nothing to do with 'marriage'...it's just an opportunity for militant gays to snub their noses at 'mainstream' society.

Gays are allowed to ordain. In fact, human men are allowed to ordain. Human men who ordai and practice rightly make more karma than those who succumb to their desires.

For the record, I know many - from the highest ranking to the lowest, and they are often the top students at their buddhist universities. No, they do not display it and yes, they are well-respected. The exception are those who blatantly do, but they're often 'sampler'/temporary ordinations or not well respected - as well as those monks who do other devious things (see below).

Ones desire to deviate from their vows, is wht makes one not make such good karma. Take for instance tit neinkham, or the recent 64 year old monk who raped a young girl.

It has nothing to do with how one is. Unfortunately that's one aspect of western thinking that has been brushing off on the thai sangha for a while now; the good thing is that type of thinking only affects a few.

Edited July 31, 2013 by hookedondhamma

[Jingthing]

Re; the thread title, Why, is there some sacred (and obscure) reason that Buddhism, is different than Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion?

The original scriptures of some religions condemn homosexuality. This is not the case with Theravada Buddhism.

Gays are not allowed to ordain afaik...

...also practising gays are not gonna accumulate good karma methinks...

I think the issue of gay marriage has nothing to do with 'marriage'...it's just an opportunity for militant gays to snub their noses at 'mainstream' society.

Or maybe some just want to get married and don't fancy the opposite sex ...