Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[Berkshire]

* Phuket and Pattaya are places with a relatively small local population, people who's families are from the area, with all the social structures and social control that comes along with it. There are relatively a lot of migrants, fortune seekers, hustlers, poor people, illegal immigrants, Farangs of questionable stature, tourists in general and other riff-raff, who are there by themselves or with peers, without any family or established social structures keeping them in check. And as a tourist destination they attract a more party-oriented crowd, with many who are almost actively trying to get into trouble.

Both developments (press and migrants), are occurring in Chiang Mai too, more and more. However the original native population is much larger than for Pattaya, Phuket (and Samui, etc.), so overall it's probably still a somewhat better society than the places you mention. However, there is also no doubt that it's not a quiet village anymore.

i would agree with this assessment. Basically, Chiang Mai has a lot more "normal" Thais just going about their lives. They were born and raised in the city/region and have firm roots here. They're not particularly interested in trying to fleece a farang. But in Pattaya/Phuket, most of the Thais are not from that area and are there to make money. If that involves fleecing a farang or two, so much the better. That's why I'd say the Thais in Pattaya/Phuket--especially those that deal with farangs day-to-day--have somewhat of a mercenary flair about them. Certainly not all, but more than anywhere else. They are not representative of normal Thais in the rest of Thailand.

[Suradit69]

There is also the history of Pattaya to take into account. The American War (aka the Vietnam War) put Pattaya on the map as an R&R destination. I'm sure in many parts of Thailand rural legends evolved with tales of streets paved with gold or, more accurately, how easy it was to separate 18 year old American soldiers from their spare cash. Those legends probably still circulate in various derivations.

These days Pattaya is a tale of two cities, but the sex-deprived, drunks (who don't notice ladyboys hiding under their beds) who seem to wander Beach Rd at 3:00 in the morning toting bags of gold, mobile phones, wads of numerous currencies and wearing signs on their back that say "Please pluck me" get 90% of the press attention. Naturally this attracts "opportunists." As Willie Sutton, the American bank robber supposedly said when asked why he robbed banks, "That's where the money is."

Unfortunately the Thai miscreants attracted to Pattaya to get up close and personal with the farang miscreants on Beach Rd also spread their net to include the otherwise quieter, gentler residential parts of Pattaya.

Doi Suthep, a Royal Residence, the elephant show, Hill Tribes and old wats all attract a different sort of visitor who probably seems less ripe for plucking and a lot less fun to exploit.

Pattaya remained a small fishing village until the 1960s. Then American servicemen during the Vietnam War began arriving in Pattaya for rest and relaxation.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Suradit69

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Agreed, Chiang Mai seems a pleasant place to live. There hasn't been a shooting in the main street in a week or so.

And you only took note of that one because it involved a foreigner.

it seemed to be the only report in the Thai Visa about a shooting.

..and it will be until the next one that happens to involve a foreigner, in a couple months or so.

I rest my case.

[roger rederer]

To compare Chiang Mai to Phuket as someone did is like comparing Benidorm to Florence. Phuket is a tacky, rip-off. Look how long the jet-ski scam has been made public yet it still thrives. Other rip-offs are the tuk tuk thugs who round upon any farang that has the temerity to question their theiving prices. Compare this to Chiang Mai and one will find that the tuk tuk scene is well ordered and cheap. Yes there is crime in C.M. but it's mostly Thai on Thai. Occasionally a knuckle scraping neanderthal finds his way up there but when he finds his vest wearings chums are still in Pooket he soon leaves. All types of entertainment are to be found at the top of Thapae Road and around the moat.

On the downside: I recall hearing that C.M. has the second highest incidence of lung cancer world wide. It's not healthy to be there in the hot dry months March-June but then it's never healthy to be in Pooket year round!

[johnnycthedog]

* Phuket and Pattaya are places with a relatively small local population, people who's families are from the area, with all the social structures and social control that comes along with it. There are relatively a lot of migrants, fortune seekers, hustlers, poor people, illegal immigrants, Farangs of questionable stature, tourists in general and other riff-raff, who are there by themselves or with peers, without any family or established social structures keeping them in check. And as a tourist destination they attract a more party-oriented crowd, with many who are almost actively trying to get into trouble.

Both developments (press and migrants), are occurring in Chiang Mai too, more and more. However the original native population is much larger than for Pattaya, Phuket (and Samui, etc.), so overall it's probably still a somewhat better society than the places you mention. However, there is also no doubt that it's not a quiet village anymore.

i would agree with this assessment. Basically, Chiang Mai has a lot more "normal" Thais just going about their lives. They were born and raised in the city/region and have firm roots here. They're not particularly interested in trying to fleece a farang. But in Pattaya/Phuket, most of the Thais are not from that area and are there to make money. If that involves fleecing a farang or two, so much the better. That's why I'd say the Thais in Pattaya/Phuket--especially those that deal with farangs day-to-day--have somewhat of a mercenary flair about them. Certainly not all, but more than anywhere else. They are not representative of normal Thais in the rest of Thailand.

Could it be that the undesirable (and menacing) Thai elements from Surat Thani, Nakon Si Thammarat and Hat Yai find Chang Mai just too far away?

[hellodolly]

Agreed, Chiang Mai seems a pleasant place to live. There hasn't been a shooting in the main street in a week or so.

And you only took note of that one because it involved a foreigner.

it seemed to be the only report in the Thai Visa about a shooting.

..and it will be until the next one that happens to involve a foreigner, in a couple months or so.

I rest my case.

What was your case?

[SpeakeasyThai]

There is no difference. It all happens here but its kept under wrap by the authorities.

[Just1Voice]

Have to agree with those who state that CM gets a different type of tourist and Pattaya & Phuket, and with the comments that the people here are also different that the Thai in either of those two places. I've been here over 5 years, and I can't think of any other city I would rather live in. Yes, it's definitely changing, growing rapidly, but there sees to be a better understanding of how to grow and expand the right ways, instead of things just popping up haphazzardly like forest mushrooms after a rain.

When I read the stories about tuk-tuk incidents in P & P, I can't help but think of the time, 3 years ago, when I had a problem with my CBR not starting when parked in the side lot of Kad Suan Kaew Mall. I called my wife, who then called Honda, who had 2 guys in a truck there within 15 minutes. I then walked around to the front the mall were half a dozen tuk tuks were parked and asked, in English, if anyone there spoke English. One man smiled and said: Me do!". I told him I needed a ride home, and then explained where I live, which is close to BoSang, which he understood. It's almost exactly 18 kilometers from the mall to my house. He told me 250 baht. I didn't even try to bargain with him. When he pulled up to my driveway, I got out, paid him, and then gave him a new pack of Marlboro. He was like a kid at Christmas time. He quickly dug out a piece of paper and pencil and wrote his name and number down, handing it to me and telling me to call him if I ever needed a tuk tuk again.

Another time my wife and I were shopping for a 2nd hand fridge to take to our son up in Arunothai where he had just been appointed as a teacher. We found a nice on at a place along the moat, and my wife negotiated a good price. As we were finishing up, a Thai on old motorbike with the side cart puled up to drop some things off. My wife talked to him for a minute and he agreed to load the fridge onto his cart and follow us home. 200 baht. He even helped us carry it in and set it at the back of the driveway, out of the way of car and bikes. Wife then gave him three 20 gallon trash bags of tin cans and told him he could have those. He gave her his number and said if we needed someone to haul things away, to give him a call.

I can't see either of these two incidents happening in Phuket or Pattaya.

Will things change here? Over time that's more than likely, but I simply can't imagine it being anything close to what P & P are now.

[morpho]

Chiang Mai is a great place. But wait until the Russian Mob take a more vested interest in it. Then the situation will deteriorate dramatically.

I live in Chiang Mai and I never worry about the Russian Mob coming here. If you notice, Russians like to visit and hang out in beach areas. That's the main reason they visit and have settled in Pattaya and Phuket. Same goes for Vietnam...they're all over Nha Trang, Mui Ne, and Vung Tau, all beach areas. I seldom see them in Chiang Mai or any other mountainous regions of Thailand and Vietnam. So without Russians coming to Chiang Mai, I doubt the Russian Mob will.

On the other hand, Chinese mobsters coming to Chiang Mai might be a serious concern someday!

[Mangkhut]

There are definitively incidents and other negative stuff happening to foreigners in Chiang Mai as in Phuket and Pattaya.

But if there really are less incidents with foreigners in Chiang Mai compared to the number of foreigners in the other two mentioned places - I think that its because Phuket and Pattaya are places build up almost 100 % as tourist places and more or less everything in Phuket and Pattaya is build up directly or indirectly to the tourist business. On the other side - Chiang Mai is mainly a city - with some tourists as well of course - but mainly a city. Thats the way I see it - but I could be wrong of course....

[mic6ard]

There are many other factors, but I think that the main differences is the TYPE of tourists we get here.

That along with people more "chill chill" here.

Edited August 1, 2013 by mic6ard

[masuk]

Chiang Mai is a great place. But wait until the Russian Mob take a more vested interest in it. Then the situation will deteriorate dramatically.

Last year I was browsing with Google Earth, and I homed in to the area where I was staying at the time, close to Kad Suan Keow.

What caught my eye was that vacant blocks of land in the area, were all titled in Russian. I don't know the language, but if they have been buying land in the city, then I'd be concerned.

The behaviour I observed around Pattya in January did not impress me at all.

[4evermaat]

There are definitively incidents and other negative stuff happening to foreigners in Chiang Mai as in Phuket and Pattaya.

 

But if there really are less incidents with foreigners in Chiang Mai compared to the number of foreigners in the other two mentioned places - I think that its because Phuket and Pattaya are places build up almost 100 % as tourist places and more or less everything in Phuket and Pattaya is build up directly or indirectly to the tourist business. On the other side - Chiang Mai is mainly a city - with some tourists as well of course - but mainly a city. Thats the way I see it - but I could be wrong of course....

 

 

Sounds like Chumphon Town or even Phuket Town.

"...the 2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app (Galaxy Note 2).

[ramrod711]

But seriously, two things:

* Phuket and Pattaya have local Farang oriented newspapers / publications that do nothing but report crime and freak accidents. This makes it seem like it happens there more than in places without reporters for English publications that are permanently stationed at police stations to write down all the crap that happens. Note that I'm not saying that Pattaya and Phuket are on the same level of crap as everywhere else, just that a moderately elevated crap-level is FAR more reported on. And for some reason, crap that involves foreigners resonates highly with other foreigners; Thai newspapers show horrific stuff all day long, but it generates a big yawn (if anything) among expats. But as soon as it involves a foreigner, that's 20+ pages in the Thaivisa news section. Many more foreigners live in / visit Phuket and Pattaya, so they're more likely to be involved, meaning you (we) notice it more. You'll notice it on this forum too. "Thai man found dead in moat": <yawn>. Versus "Farang girl found dead in moat": "OMG CONSPIRACY!, UNSAFETY!, *@#*($ THAIS!", ITS A COVER UP!, POLICE BEING IDIOTS, THEY CARE ABOUT DOGS MORE THAN FARANGS!, RAAAAAAAAAA!!" (and 20 more pages of that; same one-paragraph news story.) Now guess which one you remember.

* Phuket and Pattaya are places with a relatively small local population, people who's families are from the area, with all the social structures and social control that comes along with it. There are relatively a lot of migrants, fortune seekers, hustlers, poor people, illegal immigrants, Farangs of questionable stature, tourists in general and other riff-raff, who are there by themselves or with peers, without any family or established social structures keeping them in check. And as a tourist destination they attract a more party-oriented crowd, with many who are almost actively trying to get into trouble.

Both developments (press and migrants), are occurring in Chiang Mai too, more and more. However the original native population is much larger than for Pattaya, Phuket (and Samui, etc.), so overall it's probably still a somewhat better society than the places you mention. However, there is also no doubt that it's not a quiet village anymore.

Pretty much agree with your assessment of which stories most of us pay more attention to, I just hope you're not saying that Thais in Chiang Mai like us more than their dogs, in my experience that is not correct.

[newermonkey]

The Chang Mai people are much nicer than people from other regions, its just a simple fact.

[morpho]

The Chang Mai people are much nicer than people from other regions, its just a simple fact.

I think there's a lot of truth in that...just hope it stays that way!

[scotbeve]

But seriously, two things:

* Phuket and Pattaya have local Farang oriented newspapers / publications that do nothing but report crime and freak accidents. This makes it seem like it happens there more than in places without reporters for English publications that are permanently stationed at police stations to write down all the crap that happens. Note that I'm not saying that Pattaya and Phuket are on the same level of crap as everywhere else, just that a moderately elevated crap-level is FAR more reported on. And for some reason, crap that involves foreigners resonates highly with other foreigners; Thai newspapers show horrific stuff all day long, but it generates a big yawn (if anything) among expats. But as soon as it involves a foreigner, that's 20+ pages in the Thaivisa news section. Many more foreigners live in / visit Phuket and Pattaya, so they're more likely to be involved, meaning you (we) notice it more. You'll notice it on this forum too. "Thai man found dead in moat": <yawn>. Versus "Farang girl found dead in moat": "OMG CONSPIRACY!, UNSAFETY!, *@#*($ THAIS!", ITS A COVER UP!, POLICE BEING IDIOTS, THEY CARE ABOUT DOGS MORE THAN FARANGS!, RAAAAAAAAAA!!" (and 20 more pages of that; same one-paragraph news story.) Now guess which one you remember.

* Phuket and Pattaya are places with a relatively small local population, people who's families are from the area, with all the social structures and social control that comes along with it. There are relatively a lot of migrants, fortune seekers, hustlers, poor people, illegal immigrants, Farangs of questionable stature, tourists in general and other riff-raff, who are there by themselves or with peers, without any family or established social structures keeping them in check. And as a tourist destination they attract a more party-oriented crowd, with many who are almost actively trying to get into trouble.

Both developments (press and migrants), are occurring in Chiang Mai too, more and more. However the original native population is much larger than for Pattaya, Phuket (and Samui, etc.), so overall it's probably still a somewhat better society than the places you mention. However, there is also no doubt that it's not a quiet village anymore.

All true, but I would add to this that, while there is drinking and sex for hire in Chiang Mai, it pales in comparison to the popular beach resorts. Also people going to the beach resorts expect to pay more, so they travel with fatter wallets. The places with the most drunk tourists with fat wallets naturally attract more criminals.

We may want to add that there is a lot of us (almost) doddering, (almost) retired expats here as well..... The local lasses (and for those so inclined, lads) would most likely find us as pieces of furniture or deadwood....

[pomchop]

I think that pattaya and Phuket are way more dependent on tourism and if all the tourists disappeared tomorrow a lot of the Thais there would be hard pressed to make a living. Tourists pour into the beach resorts to use hotels, restaurants,, jet skis, bars, girls, buses,, vans, motorbikes....all areas that the locals can charge whatever they think the market will bear. Lots of couples show up in Phuket with the attitude of short term tourists and think that paying 150 baht for a plate of fried rice is a "bargain". Thais are amazed at this and figure hell lets triple the prices for everything.

Not sure about CM as I live in Chiang Rai. But I have often noted that if another tourist never set foot in CR it would make zero difference to about 95% of the local residents whose lives and incomes have little to nothing to do with tourism. CR seems to revolve more around farming and figuring out how to scratch a living off the land rather than how to fleece the tourists.

I've lived in Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya and now CR. In CR never given a baht to the BIB, generally treated very nice by the locals, never seen a fight, never been threatened by anyone. A fleet of new taxis actually uses the meter and provides a very good service. Prices are a fraction of Bangkok and Phuket and the hassle factor is way way down the list.

CR is NOT for everyone and some may be bored to tears. But when and if you get tired of the ripoffs and hassles of big city or beach resort living it can be a very very pleasant place.

[ableguy]

But seriously, two things:

* Phuket and Pattaya have local Farang oriented newspapers / publications that do nothing but report crime and freak accidents. This makes it seem like it happens there more than in places without reporters for English publications that are permanently stationed at police stations to write down all the crap that happens. Note that I'm not saying that Pattaya and Phuket are on the same level of crap as everywhere else, just that a moderately elevated crap-level is FAR more reported on. And for some reason, crap that involves foreigners resonates highly with other foreigners; Thai newspapers show horrific stuff all day long, but it generates a big yawn (if anything) among expats. But as soon as it involves a foreigner, that's 20+ pages in the Thaivisa news section. Many more foreigners live in / visit Phuket and Pattaya, so they're more likely to be involved, meaning you (we) notice it more. You'll notice it on this forum too. "Thai man found dead in moat": <yawn>. Versus "Farang girl found dead in moat": "OMG CONSPIRACY!, UNSAFETY!, *@#*($ THAIS!", ITS A COVER UP!, POLICE BEING IDIOTS, THEY CARE ABOUT DOGS MORE THAN FARANGS!, RAAAAAAAAAA!!" (and 20 more pages of that; same one-paragraph news story.) Now guess which one you remember.

* Phuket and Pattaya are places with a relatively small local population, people who's families are from the area, with all the social structures and social control that comes along with it. There are relatively a lot of migrants, fortune seekers, hustlers, poor people, illegal immigrants, Farangs of questionable stature, tourists in general and other riff-raff, who are there by themselves or with peers, without any family or established social structures keeping them in check. And as a tourist destination they attract a more party-oriented crowd, with many who are almost actively trying to get into trouble.

Both developments (press and migrants), are occurring in Chiang Mai too, more and more. However the original native population is much larger than for Pattaya, Phuket (and Samui, etc.), so overall it's probably still a somewhat better society than the places you mention. However, there is also no doubt that it's not a quiet village anymore.

Listen there is not a fraction of the brothels in Chang Mai that tha other two have,

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Sure, rub it in.

Still, Chiang Mai has other things going for it. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.

I do think we have more brothels than Phuket though; Phuket is not a very big place.

Edited August 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[heybruce]

^ Sure, rub it in.

Still, Chiang Mai has other things going for it. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.

I do think we have more brothels than Phuket though; Phuket is not a very big place.

That may be true, but Phuket has that one really big brothel called Bangla Road.

What is the brothel count in Chiang Mai? Not that I'd ever go to one, I just like to stay informed.

[CMHomeboy78]

There is also the history of Pattaya to take into account. The American War (aka the Vietnam War) put Pattaya on the map as an R&R destination. I'm sure in many parts of Thailand rural legends evolved with tales of streets paved with gold or, more accurately, how easy it was to separate 18 year old American soldiers from their spare cash. Those legends probably still circulate in various derivations.

These days Pattaya is a tale of two cities, but the sex-deprived, drunks (who don't notice ladyboys hiding under their beds) who seem to wander Beach Rd at 3:00 in the morning toting bags of gold, mobile phones, wads of numerous currencies and wearing signs on their back that say "Please pluck me" get 90% of the press attention. Naturally this attracts "opportunists." As Willie Sutton, the American bank robber supposedly said when asked why he robbed banks, "That's where the money is."

Unfortunately the Thai miscreants attracted to Pattaya to get up close and personal with the farang miscreants on Beach Rd also spread their net to include the otherwise quieter, gentler residential parts of Pattaya.

Doi Suthep, a Royal Residence, the elephant show, Hill Tribes and old wats all attract a different sort of visitor who probably seems less ripe for plucking and a lot less fun to exploit.

Pattaya remained a small fishing village until the 1960s. Then American servicemen during the Vietnam War began arriving in Pattaya for rest and relaxation.

The history of Pattaya and the way it developed is an interesting subject. If you want to start telling people about it you should learn a little more.

The Vietnam War did put Pattaya on the map, but not in the way you imply. You're wrong in saying that it was an R&R destination. It was not. Bangkok was the R&R destination.

Pattaya was a fishing village on a beautiful white sand cresent beach in the early 1960's. GI's from U-Tapao would take their girlfriends to swim and have a meal at one of the basic fish restaurants on the beach. It developed slowly throughout the '60's and '70's. When I first went there in 1978 it had become a small town with hotels, bars, whorehouses, and entertainment venues that were starting to attract people - mostly farangs - from all over. But by that time the Vietnam War was history. Middle-Eastern sex-tourists were showing up in small numbers as well. Thai tourists avoided the place; they had their own traditional beach resort at Bang Saen a little to the north.

The best sources of information about Pattaya's early days are the ex-USAF guys who were stationed at U-Tapao. Bernard Trink's NiteOwl columns collected as a book would make interesting reading as well.

The crazy over-development and destruction of the natural environment in Pattaya should have been a lesson to everybody.

[wolf5370]

Once or twice a week I walk to the local expat bar for a drink and chat. It's about 4km walk mostly down back streets and traversing a moo bahn (short cut). I also often walk to BigC and back (about 6km each way), when not going for large shopping. I enjoy the walk. Nearly every time someone will stop and offer me a lift - usually Thais (sometimes farangs too). They may be in cars, trucks or even mopeds - I usually politely refuse and tell them I enjoy the walk or am nearly home. This always happens to me up here in CM. In the UK no one would do likewise unless in some little village far away from town. I always find Thais up here will happily stop to help when they can - I have been towed when broken down - had lifts when waiting for songteaws - help carrying things, picking things up - returning dropped items (including money). Even once had a women tell off a tuktuk driver for trying to overcharge me - I was already arguing, but she stopped him dead.

I have never lived in those other places mentioned - I have only ever visited Pattaya during the day, and to go to places like Nong Noch and Mini-Siam and a temple of two. I think up here in CM its easier for the locals to tell the expats from the tourists, its a smaller city. In Pattaya/Phuket it must be much harder and probably most get lumped in with the tourists - and thus money rich passing trade with no idea of their rights. Beaches attract less desirable people - as well as normal, fun seeking, tourists too of course - this is true the world over I think (certainly is in Spain/Greece). Youngsters after sun, sex and sangria here are not coming up north - its the islands and coastal tourist areas for them.

[NCC1701A]

Just saw in another thread that the TED conference is coming to Chiang Mai. There is a reason why they picked Chiang Mai. MORE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE.

[muchogra]

^ Sure, rub it in.

Still, Chiang Mai has other things going for it. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.

I do think we have more brothels than Phuket though; Phuket is not a very big place.

That may be true, but Phuket has that one really big brothel called Bangla Road.

What is the brothel count in Chiang Mai? Not that I'd ever go to one, I just like to stay informed.

heybruce, you impress me as one who does have an inept knowledge of Thailand very much from some posts that you made. The same applies to WTK. Stastistics is not important! Both places have brothels just like everywhere else. What WTK refers to may be the freelancers. I don't really know, but I did see one girl at the Tapae Gate sitting there where a farang tlaked to her. Negotiating?

There certainly are more openly sex-oriented places in Bangkok and Phuket than CM. Perhaps, in CM, it's more obscured? I remember the real estate agent took me to a massage place in CM when I was house hunting. In general, they looked much better.

[rene123]

I think Winnie pretty much explained it in post #6, and some others have pretty much backed up what Winne wrote. Anywhere that you have an active party time city complete with sex tourism and beaches then it will attract the more seedy groups of people who prey on the drunken tourists. From what I've been told, cities like Angeles City in the Philippines, and Rio in South America, make Pattaya look like a church choir concert.

By contrast, Chiang Mai is more of a city for expats. It has a small red light district, but what city of that size anywhere doesn't?

[scotbeve]

There is also the history of Pattaya to take into account. The American War (aka the Vietnam War) put Pattaya on the map as an R&R destination. I'm sure in many parts of Thailand rural legends evolved with tales of streets paved with gold or, more accurately, how easy it was to separate 18 year old American soldiers from their spare cash. Those legends probably still circulate in various derivations.

These days Pattaya is a tale of two cities, but the sex-deprived, drunks (who don't notice ladyboys hiding under their beds) who seem to wander Beach Rd at 3:00 in the morning toting bags of gold, mobile phones, wads of numerous currencies and wearing signs on their back that say "Please pluck me" get 90% of the press attention. Naturally this attracts "opportunists." As Willie Sutton, the American bank robber supposedly said when asked why he robbed banks, "That's where the money is."

Unfortunately the Thai miscreants attracted to Pattaya to get up close and personal with the farang miscreants on Beach Rd also spread their net to include the otherwise quieter, gentler residential parts of Pattaya.

Doi Suthep, a Royal Residence, the elephant show, Hill Tribes and old wats all attract a different sort of visitor who probably seems less ripe for plucking and a lot less fun to exploit.

Pattaya remained a small fishing village until the 1960s. Then American servicemen during the Vietnam War began arriving in Pattaya for rest and relaxation.

The history of Pattaya and the way it developed is an interesting subject. If you want to start telling people about it you should learn a little more.

The Vietnam War did put Pattaya on the map, but not in the way you imply. You're wrong in saying that it was an R&R destination. It was not. Bangkok was the R&R destination.

Pattaya was a fishing village on a beautiful white sand cresent beach in the early 1960's. GI's from U-Tapao would take their girlfriends to swim and have a meal at one of the basic fish restaurants on the beach. It developed slowly throughout the '60's and '70's. When I first went there in 1978 it had become a small town with hotels, bars, whorehouses, and entertainment venues that were starting to attract people - mostly farangs - from all over. But by that time the Vietnam War was history. Middle-Eastern sex-tourists were showing up in small numbers as well. Thai tourists avoided the place; they had their own traditional beach resort at Bang Saen a little to the north.

The best sources of information about Pattaya's early days are the ex-USAF guys who were stationed at U-Tapao. Bernard Trink's NiteOwl columns collected as a book would make interesting reading as well.

The crazy over-development and destruction of the natural environment in Pattaya should have been a lesson to everybody.

CMHomeboy,

I think that you'll find that the Ozzies actually were the first ones there before the VN war - at least that was what I read a long time ago.... Anybody remember this as I can not remember where I read it.... Sorry. (BTW - I'm a Yank...) Yes, BKK was the R&R capital in TH and was for a long time.

[CMHomeboy78]

There is also the history of Pattaya to take into account. The American War (aka the Vietnam War) put Pattaya on the map as an R&R destination. I'm sure in many parts of Thailand rural legends evolved with tales of streets paved with gold or, more accurately, how easy it was to separate 18 year old American soldiers from their spare cash. Those legends probably still circulate in various derivations.

These days Pattaya is a tale of two cities, but the sex-deprived, drunks (who don't notice ladyboys hiding under their beds) who seem to wander Beach Rd at 3:00 in the morning toting bags of gold, mobile phones, wads of numerous currencies and wearing signs on their back that say "Please pluck me" get 90% of the press attention. Naturally this attracts "opportunists." As Willie Sutton, the American bank robber supposedly said when asked why he robbed banks, "That's where the money is."

Unfortunately the Thai miscreants attracted to Pattaya to get up close and personal with the farang miscreants on Beach Rd also spread their net to include the otherwise quieter, gentler residential parts of Pattaya.

Doi Suthep, a Royal Residence, the elephant show, Hill Tribes and old wats all attract a different sort of visitor who probably seems less ripe for plucking and a lot less fun to exploit.

Pattaya remained a small fishing village until the 1960s. Then American servicemen during the Vietnam War began arriving in Pattaya for rest and relaxation.

The history of Pattaya and the way it developed is an interesting subject. If you want to start telling people about it you should learn a little more.

The Vietnam War did put Pattaya on the map, but not in the way you imply. You're wrong in saying that it was an R&R destination. It was not. Bangkok was the R&R destination.

Pattaya was a fishing village on a beautiful white sand cresent beach in the early 1960's. GI's from U-Tapao would take their girlfriends to swim and have a meal at one of the basic fish restaurants on the beach. It developed slowly throughout the '60's and '70's. When I first went there in 1978 it had become a small town with hotels, bars, whorehouses, and entertainment venues that were starting to attract people - mostly farangs - from all over. But by that time the Vietnam War was history. Middle-Eastern sex-tourists were showing up in small numbers as well. Thai tourists avoided the place; they had their own traditional beach resort at Bang Saen a little to the north.

The best sources of information about Pattaya's early days are the ex-USAF guys who were stationed at U-Tapao. Bernard Trink's NiteOwl columns collected as a book would make interesting reading as well.

The crazy over-development and destruction of the natural environment in Pattaya should have been a lesson to everybody.

CMHomeboy,

I think that you'll find that the Ozzies actually were the first ones there before the VN war - at least that was what I read a long time ago.... Anybody remember this as I can not remember where I read it.... Sorry. (BTW - I'm a Yank...) Yes, BKK was the R&R capital in TH and was for a long time.

That's new to me. I'd be interested in checking out any references to a pre-Vietnam War Australian presence in Pattaya.

As I mentioned, my own experience only goes back to 1978. But before that, I had friends who were stationed at U-Tapao and according to them, Pattaya was a fishing village in a beautiful location. No facilities, just a few bamboo restaurants, until things started to change in the mid-'70's.

During the Vietnam War the R&R scene was in Bangkok.

[hml367]

http://www.1stoppattaya.com/articles/sattahip_gis/

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think Winnie pretty much explained it in post #6, and some others have pretty much backed up what Winne wrote. Anywhere that you have an active party time city complete with sex tourism and beaches then it will attract the more seedy groups of people who prey on the drunken tourists. From what I've been told, cities like Angeles City in the Philippines, and Rio in South America, make Pattaya look like a church choir concert.

By contrast, Chiang Mai is more of a city for expats. It has a small red light district, but what city of that size anywhere doesn't?

Allegedly 300+ short-time hotels in CM. Seems a bit like overkill to me but I guess all those uni girls need to earn their tuition fees somewhere.