Bring It On

[Boon Mee]

For the first time since 1988 foreign-policy is an issue in a Presidential election. In 2000, the distinction between Bush & Gore was blurry. Bush opposed nation-building & advocated a limited foreign-policy. Gore was a "hawk" in an administration that conducted a war against Slobodan Milosevic and his band of merry men without U.N. support and w/out any "imminent threat" to provoke him.

Now the playing-field is reversed. Bush "arrogantly" supports nation-building while Kerry voted NO to the $87 billion for Iraqs reconstruction, which means Kerry is opposed to the most important American effort a nation-building since Douglas McArthur ruled Japan. Kerry also thinks making "nice" to the UN and not making war on our enemies should be the top priority.

John Kerry is extremely reluctant to use force and thinks there are more important priorities than the war on terror. Bush's relevant military experience has been for the past three years a commander-in-chief who realizes that since we're at war (remember 9/11) it's better to be unpopular and win than popular and lose.

Bush says he's first and foremost a war president. Kerry says he's a jobs president first, then an education president, an environmental president, a taking-the-thorns-out-of-kittens'-paws president and - oh yeah, a guy in charge of some military stuff

Let them bring it on...

Boon Mee

[davidm]

Maybe there's more to Kerry's marriage into the Heinz family than meets the eye. He's got 57 varieties for each policy issue depending on who is asking the questions and the latest opinion poll statistics.

I think the Republicans are deliberately withholding serious criticism of the man until his nomination is confirmed. Edwards is the candidate they fear most. Kerry will be an easy challenge to discredit and defeat.

[Boon Mee]

Kerry is the consumate opportunist & a turncoat. You won't see many VietNam Vets (other than the few that are with him at photo shoots) supporting him after his actions with Hanoi Jane.

It will be gratifying to see him crash & burn like Mad Howlin' Howard Dean.

[Jeepz]

And what did Kerry purportedly do with Jane Fonda? If you are referring to the photo of him at an anti-war rally where she was supposedly seated not far from him, that photo has been identified as a fake. Yeah, really.

Jeepz

[Boon Mee]

Yeah, I love these conspiracy/coincidental theories like the latest that Janet Jackson was born in May 1966 the same month that the Troggs hit #1 with "Wild Thing"!

With Photoshop it's possible to do anything these days but that photo of the Ketchep King wasn't faked. And, talking about ketchep, he may have been getting a little extra on his french fries with that intern that's hiding out in Africa!

Boon Mee

[Jeepz]

Hmm, the photo was reported as faked, I suppose that will now have to be verified. But I am pretty sure that the original photographer had the original negative and said it's hokum.

ROFL! Wild Thing Janet, eh? That's too much. Now I'd be so much interested if it had been Beyonce doing the flashing. Middle age women seem to clutch at their youth even harder than the guys.

As for extra Ketchup, well, other than the public address where Clinton said he never had sex with Monica, I don't much care about the sex life (or lack of) concerning our politicians. Oh, if a president was shacking up with an attractive agent of another country, that might be different. But in the general give and take of things, I don't expect presidents to exempt from the frailties of humankind just because they are ambitious, talented, and should know better.

I am more concerned about his position concerning defense, jobs, privacy and so forth.

Jeepz

[Boon Mee]

The photo was reported as faked due to the left-wing press basically despising GWB & will do anything to see anybody but him in the White House come next Jan.

Kerry is an unsavory character and no champion of the working-man as the Democratic Party is supposed to represent. In terms of defense, he voted against every funding bill before Congress to give the military a raise.

Now that Ralph Nader is in the race as an Independant it should make things more interesting!

[mouse]

The photo of Kerry about thirty feet behind Jan Fonda at an Anti War Rally means nothing to me wether real of faked. It means he was there. I was at a rally with Jane Fonda (the female traitor dog scum) prior to going to Viet Nam in 1968, although it does mean that I was protesting with her it only means I was there. Once having gone to Viet nam and having defended what I saw as Democracy I also earned the right to protest. I chose not to exercise the right to demonstarte and instead stayed overseas forever.

[mouse]

Although I am not subscriber of conspiracy theories it worries me that a Bush was on the Warren Comission (cannot confirm this) , a Bush was head of the CIA at the time of JFK's death, a Bush was Govenor of Florida when our future was in the hands of a few. A Bush was in Governemnt the first time we attacked Iraq. A Bush was in Governement during the second attack on Iraq. A Bush has a lawsuit against the Iraq governement due to oil concerns. A Bush was in governement during the last two times that a record was set in our National Debt. And the story goes on and on........................

[Boon Mee]

For all you Vietnam Vets - check out the following:

The following was sent to a Marine chat net by a retired Marine Master Sergeant who was in S-2, 3rd Bn, 1st Marines, Korea in 1954. It calls into serious question John Kerry's military actions in Vietnam. It's presented to give another another perspective to the media's one-sided "war hero" adulation, and to open his actions to the light of public discourse. --

I was in the Delta shortly after John Kerry left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used, and I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware that fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job, but that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) He collected three Purple Hearts but has no limp. All his injuries were so minor that he lost no time from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on, the boats were almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds, at least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.

(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.

( Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.

© Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple: If you had somebody on the beach, your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Japanese destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early and requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress. In that election, he finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970, so he reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and has Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting. A few years later he winds up in the Senate himself, where he votes against every major defense bill and says the CIA is irrelevant after the Berlin Wall came down. He votes against the Gulf War (a big political mistake since that turned out well), then decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq -- but that didn't fare as well with the Democrats, so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander-in-Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated.

Once the above is more widely known, this guy is "toast"

Boon Mee

[davidm]

There are two photos of Kerry with Fonda. The picture of them side by side has been denounced as a hoax by someone who claims to have the negative. Assuming he's right, that leaves us with a second which has been generally accepted as genuine. This picture shows them several yards apart, though, which makes it harder to exploit by Republicans.

Thanks for the input about Kerry's war record.

Those gloating over Bush's apparent demise should bear in mind he hasn't even begun campaigning yet. I still believe he will win comfortably if Kerry is the challenger.

[mouse]

davidm I hope you are wrong and Bush will not get re-elected cause we will then be forced to sacrifice our sons in Korea, Iran and God knows where and the national debt will climb until we are finally equal with lesser nations.

[Axel]

davidm I hope you are wrong and Bush will not get re-elected cause we will then be forced to sacrifice our sons in Korea, Iran and God knows where and the national debt will climb until we are finally equal with lesser nations.

Your word in God's ears and America will be blessed.

One thing I do not understand, Bush cannot be re-elected, he was appointed, so perhaps re-appointed?

Or this time elected and than can go on for another 8 years.

[Boon Mee]

Bush didn't win the popular vote in 2000 but that's the wonderful thing about the Electoral College!

Can you really imagine the mess Gore would have made by now? We're talking Jimmy Carter 2...

Boon Mee

[mouse]

Dear Boon Now you are way out of line. Jimmy Carter was and still is one of the best people I have seen in that office. The fact that they were able to make him look bad is another story.

[Boon Mee]

Dear Boon  Now you are way out of line.  Jimmy Carter was and still is one of the best people I have seen in that office.  The fact that they were able to make him look bad is another story.

Dear Mouse,

You are surely not a native-born American are you?

Please cast your memory back to some of the horrendous "cock-ups" performed by the chief appeaser: Desert One, Iran hostages, Skylab, sucking up to Fidel Castro - the list goes on...

Boon Mee

[mouse]

Dear Boon Mee

You are surely not a native-born American are you?

Please cast your memory back to some of the horrendous "cock-ups" performed by the chief appeaser: Desert One, Iran hostages, Skylab, sucking up to Fidel Castro - the list goes on

I came to the US in 1963 as a young man, went to Vietnam as a US ARMY Small Weapons Advisor in 1970 then lived out the rest of my career in the USAF mostly in Europe.

DESERT ONE - Was a fiasco due to euqipment failure and lack of planning by an anxious Military willing to do anything to get some action

HOSTAGES- This was the fault fo the Iranian militants and not our President

SKYLAB- I am not up on this but you surely cannot blames every accident or mishap on the Presidency

Sucking up to FIDEL CASTRO- I think that it was and still is time to stop making the people of Cuba suffer for the actions and political beliefs of their leader. We always seem to pick on the little guys and then only when it looks good and we have something to gain or ourgovernment needs a political diversion.

What about the old USSR, the former Cambodia, China, North Korea, Iddi Amin in Uganda, and all the others that actually caused harm ot their people. Why did we stand idle then?

I say use assasination to rid us of our enemies, rather than our past and present half hearted attempts at embargos, wars and limited police action.

OOPS! Sorry got carried away there

[adjan jb]

Though naive, one of the most intelligent American presidents that ever was.

[Axel]

Bush didn't win the popular vote in 2000 but that's the wonderful thing about the Electoral College!

Can you really imagine the mess Gore would have made by now? We're talking Jimmy Carter 2...

Boon Mee

Well, the Electoral College is something unique but not unfair.

What Gore would have done is difficult to judge now. Perhaps, he is happy not to be president after all.

Not being an American, oops US-citizen, I am always careful not to comment on domestic issues of other countries. However, too many voices are against Bush, both at home and on the international political stage.

I, for one, would be interested to hear some positive achievements of GWB, both at home and abroad.

[adjan jb]

I, for one, would be interested to hear some positive achievements of GWB, both at home and abroad.

Here's one positive achievement : he has united the whole world.

[Boon Mee]

And, he's reduced my taxes! Is that a positive achievment or what?

[adjan jb]

And, he's reduced my taxes! Is that a positive achievment or what?

He's also reduced a lot of his felow men to poverty.

[mouse]

Not being an American, oops US-citizen

None of us are true Americans except the Indians and they did not want to be

[Boon Mee]

Not being an American, oops US-citizen

None of us are true Americans except the Indians and they did not want to be

And they had to come from somewhere - most likely Siberia across the former land-bridge from Russia to Alaska.

In terms of positive achievements we can't forget Gadaffi turning himself in...

[Jeepz]

Once having gone to Viet nam and having defended what I saw as Democracy I also earned the right to protest.

Just off work and sitting back with a nice glass of cheap red table wine per my doctor's instructions, I had a chance to read this thread since I last posted to it. I salute mouse for his answering the call to duty regarding Vietnam, but must differ on his viewpoint that he then had the right to protest.

He had that right prior to as well as after his service. If the only people that could argue against a war were those that served in it, or more liberally those that had served in at least one, then we would have to silence all the other citizens. That would include the fathers and mothers of soldiers. They wouldn't have the right to protest. Or the spouses and girlfriends (or boyfriends as the case may be), they should just hush up. And the children, brother and/or sisters, aunts, uncles, all of the motley crew need to realize their place and just keep their mouths closed.

I rather doubt that is what mouse intended when he said he had earned the right to protest. But it might be. Dunno. That his service gives his viewpoint more validity would be unarguable. Well, unless his service was the equivalent of what he believes Kerry's was. But I doubt that is true. And I think the jury is still out on Kerrys service at this point, but mouse brings some very viable questions about it.

I would like to see the democrats field someone that was Presidential. Kerry has at least that appearance at this point. But we will have to see if he can stand the heat in the kitchen.

Jeepz

[Boon Mee]

Jeepz

Mouse is in the minority w/respect to Vietnam Vets and their opinion re. The War. I've joined VFW Clubs wherever I've lived since my time in service and you won't hear one word denegrating the value of what we did there.

What the public hears is a lot of noise with medals getting thrown away and fokin' peace marches etc. - gotta watch my blood-pressure here...

[mouse]

JEEPZ I did not make myself clear. I am meant to say that I was in the military to protect those very rights of demonstration. Everyone has that right and I protected those rights. Not saying I was any more entitled than anyone else. Sorry!

[mouse]

Mouse is in the minority w/respect to Vietnam Vets and their opinion re. The War. I've joined VFW Clubs wherever I've lived since my time in service and you won't hear one word denegrating the value of what we did there.

Friends try to read what I am saying and not putting anything into my posts other than what is there. I am saying we have the right to demonstrate as does anyone. I was sworn to uphold that Constitutional right for everyone myself included for twenty years.

Now that I am older and hopefully wiser, I regret what I thought was the right thing in Vietnam. For now I know that killing is never the right thing to do. And I hope I can pass this on to my sons. I will post a published story about Vietnam and hope you take the time to read it. It is called Fear Fix.

[Pink Mist]

Ralph to the rescue, I heard one of the democrats ads today, pathetic asking him please dont run think of america, if thats democracy in action, then God help us all.

[Boon Mee]

Ralph to the rescue, I heard one of the democrats ads today, pathetic asking him please dont run think of america, if thats democracy in action, then God help us all.

Yeah, the Democratic Party has become REAL pathetic.

Ralph Nader is the man!