atyclb Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Let me tell you about insecurity and world domination Mr wealth. When I lived and worked in Beijing I lived in constant fear of being visited by the Chinese Communist Party. I have no fear in Thailand or the good old United Kingdom or the US of A. are you aware that Mao was installed by the elite? David Rockefeller called it a huge success after 70 million people were starved to death or killed by other means? Ask yourself, on what is the feeling of your "security" based on? For the benefit of the expert on Chinese history the answer is simple. In Thailand, the UK or the USA I can say whatever the hell I like on the Internet without any fear. In China, I can't. ‘Do you have any bombs?’ Woman sparks police raid with 'pressure cooker' Google search “They mentioned that they do this about 100 times a week,” she said. “And 99 of those turn out to be nothing. I don’t know what happens on the other one per cent of visits and I’m not sure I want to know what my neighbors are up to.” http://rt.com/usa/googling-bomb-feds-raid-suspicious-925/ Why did US media ignore Jimmy Carter’s remarks on Edward Snowden?http://bangordailynews.com/2013/07/31/opinion/contributors/why-did-us-media-ignore-jimmy-carters-remarks-on-democracy/ Edited August 3, 2013 by atyclb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Why did US media ignore Jimmy Carters remarks on Edward Snowden? http://bangordailynews.com/2013/07/31/opinion/contributors/why-did-us-media-ignore-jimmy-carters-remarks-on-democracy/ I am sad to say This is not surprising to me in the least. His first paragraph is spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyuk Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 It is clear that the USA's surveilance system of the worls citizens will at it's maturity contain a profile of every persona, dead or alive. This fact actually sucks howevr I look at it. In essence the USA is building a World Wide achive of all of us since ultimately the extreme political right wing of the USA function on the precept that the USA's policing of the world's citizens is a prelude to total domination of our planet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Lectures from Germany about torture and death penalty. It's too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 It is clear that the USA's surveilance system of the worls citizens will at it's maturity contain a profile of every persona, dead or alive. This fact actually sucks howevr I look at it. In essence the USA is building a World Wide achive of all of us since ultimately the extreme political right wing of the USA function on the precept that the USA's policing of the world's citizens is a prelude to total domination of our planet. Beats total domination by CHINA ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) According to wiki there are around 2.8 billion people in the world who use the Internet. Me, SinglePot, is just one of those 2.8 billion. I am not important. Xkeyscore has no relevance to me and places no imposition on my life. If it helps prevent terrorism, I am in favour. What's all the drama about? Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me Edited August 3, 2013 by BlackJack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 From the OP …“ According to secret information leaked by Mr Snowden through The Guardian newspaper, XKeyscore is a massive programme that sweeps up email, social media activity and all browsing history.” Here is a good explanation of what it is............. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 According to wiki there are around 2.8 billion people in the world who use the Internet. Me, SinglePot, is just one of those 2.8 billion. I am not important. Xkeyscore has no relevance to me and places no imposition on my life. If it helps prevent terrorism, I am in favour. What's all the drama about? Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me Can you please read me the international law, paragraph and number, that makes it illegal? Immoral yes. And, once again, you might as well say don't shoot me because I am British, Canadian, NZ, Australian as well, as they are all involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 According to wiki there are around 2.8 billion people in the world who use the Internet. Me, SinglePot, is just one of those 2.8 billion. I am not important. Xkeyscore has no relevance to me and places no imposition on my life. If it helps prevent terrorism, I am in favour. What's all the drama about? Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me Can you please read me the international law, paragraph and number, that makes it illegal? Immoral yes. And, once again, you might as well say don't shoot me because I am British, Canadian, NZ, Australian as well, as they are all involved. to many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJack Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 According to wiki there are around 2.8 billion people in the world who use the Internet. Me, SinglePot, is just one of those 2.8 billion. I am not important. Xkeyscore has no relevance to me and places no imposition on my life. If it helps prevent terrorism, I am in favour. What's all the drama about? Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me Can you please read me the international law, paragraph and number, that makes it illegal? Immoral yes. And, once again, you might as well say don't shoot me because I am British, Canadian, NZ, Australian as well, as they are all involved. to many to list you can do some reading here on each European member state has a data protection authority (DPA) - meaning each member has laws against what the NSA is doing - Germany has some of the strongest laws European members states are even changing laws to fine Google/Microsoft for infringing on peoples private information. Why do you think these guys set up in Ireland? then check your American Constitution and then each states warrant laws for obtaining information, storing and using it. list goes on and on - to many to list. Read up on it - you will be surprised. SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH their listening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me Can you please read me the international law, paragraph and number, that makes it illegal? Immoral yes. And, once again, you might as well say don't shoot me because I am British, Canadian, NZ, Australian as well, as they are all involved. ... to many to list No. There are no Internationally recognized laws accepted in the Worldwide community as of yet. I said the Five Eyes countries are not seeing eye to eye with NSA http://www.asil.org/insights130207.cfm Public Info....taken from link above. It would be interesting to see what law was broken here in Thailand. But none on the books as of yet. Keeping the internet free for us...is also making it easy for all our governments to track us. There are some laws in the USA, but they do not apply in, for example, Thailand or Australia In December 2012, the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) convened the World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT-12) The WCIT-12 ended without consensus. Of the 144 delegations with voting rights at the WCIT-12, eighty-nine signed the revised ITRs, including many African countries, Brazil, China, Indonesia, Iran, and Russia, while fifty-five did not, including Australia, members of the European Union (EU), Canada, Japan, and the United States.[10] For countries that agree to be bound, the revised ITRs take effect on January 1, 2015 (Article 10.1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 From the OP …“ According to secret information leaked by Mr Snowden through The Guardian newspaper, XKeyscore is a massive programme that sweeps up email, social media activity and all browsing history.” Here is a good explanation of what it is............. The presentation is by RT, which is funded by the Russian government which is in bed with Julian Assange and has control of Edward Snowden. XKeyscore is a legal foreign intelligence program conducted in the sovereign interests of the United States and other sovereign allies. Related is the fact Prez Obama initiated discussion with Xi Jinping during their recent summit about establishing 'rules of the road' in this new area of cyber espionage and cyber theft. The United States is interested in establishing an international regime in this respect - some rules, practices and procedures that make things more clear to everyone. Previous attempts had been unsuccessful. Until we get some agreements, governments are going to continue to be anarchists in this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinglePot Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Have we all made any progress today? Tomorrow, Sunday, hopefully there will be no acts of terrorism against US Embassies in the Middle East or any where else in the world. Mr Snowden remains secure in Russia. Good Evening. Edited August 3, 2013 by SinglePot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 There is a lot of interesting detail in that Xkeyscore Powerpoint, and that's from five years ago (2008). "Show me all VPN start-ups in Country X, and give me the data so I can decrypt and discover the users" "Sometimes a delicate balance of mission and research" (no mention of privacy of course) With over 4 million people in the U.S. with top-secret security clearance, 500,000 of whom are private contractors, many of whom have been vetted by private contractors, you can bet there will be a lot more leaks and mis-use of intelligence gathering apparatus, in the future unless an example is made of Mr. Snowden, i.e. terminating his life. I had top-secret clearance in America, there are many different levels. Some take just signing a piece of paper and making a promise and others require interviews of family and persons of contact back to high school. Being a subcontractor, Snowden's level would have required nothing more plan a signing a promise and electronic criminal background check. Not necessarily true. An executive policy consultant or a software engineer working on a military or government intelligence, security or defense system may need access to highly classified information to do their jobs. Additionally, top secret is a mid-level security classification and some contractors have higher security clearances. You are correct that the higher the security clearance, the more detailed the background check.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I did not think the US was good at satire until I saw this. Aaron Sorkin can get a bit schmaltzy, often. The communication lines into the US Embassy in Bangkok probably make a huge sucking sound...sort of like a Hoover vacuum cleaner.Probably no one at the Embassy is (likely) even aware of what is being done. "Plausible deniablility" and all that. Plausible deniability is a term coined by the CIA during the Kennedy administration to describe the withholding of information from senior officials in order to protect them from repercussions in the event that illegal or unpopular activities by the CIA became public knowledge. Ahhh - that's why the shot him. So they could plausibly deny any knowledge and set upOswald -who was conveniently removedby Jack Ruby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 From the OP According to secret information leaked by Mr Snowden through The Guardian newspaper, XKeyscore is a massive programme that sweeps up email, social media activity and all browsing history. Here is a good explanation of what it is............. The presentation is by RT, which is funded by the Russian government which is in bed with Julian Assange and has control of Edward Snowden. XKeyscore is a legal foreign intelligence program conducted in the sovereign interests of the United States and other sovereign allies. Related is the fact Prez Obama initiated discussion with Xi Jinping during their recent summit about establishing 'rules of the road' in this new area of cyber espionage and cyber theft. The United States is interested in establishing an international regime in this respect - some rules, practices and procedures that make things more clear to everyone. Previous attempts had been unsuccessful. Until we get some agreements, governments are going to continue to be anarchists in this. Like the NSA in the United States, Russian security services reportedly have far-reaching abilities to monitor telephone and internet communications in their own country through a program known by its Russian acronym SORM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 From the OP According to secret information leaked by Mr Snowden through The Guardian newspaper, XKeyscore is a massive programme that sweeps up email, social media activity and all browsing history. Here is a good explanation of what it is............. The presentation is by RT, which is funded by the Russian government which is in bed with Julian Assange and has control of Edward Snowden. XKeyscore is a legal foreign intelligence program conducted in the sovereign interests of the United States and other sovereign allies. Related is the fact Prez Obama initiated discussion with Xi Jinping during their recent summit about establishing 'rules of the road' in this new area of cyber espionage and cyber theft. The United States is interested in establishing an international regime in this respect - some rules, practices and procedures that make things more clear to everyone. Previous attempts had been unsuccessful. Until we get some agreements, governments are going to continue to be anarchists in this. Like the NSA in the United States, Russian security services reportedly have far-reaching abilities to monitor telephone and internet communications in their own country through a program known by its Russian acronym SORM. For better and for worse, this pretty much is the norm for most governments of developed countries of the world today. Germany has some tough laws against this but I'd bet some domestic surveillance goes on there, searching for terrorists which like to make Germany a hangout for them. The historical reasons for tough laws in Germany are obvious. I'd bet France has such a program too, especially with Europe's largest Muslim population within its borders. French security services likely monitor phone calls, at least whenever anyone in France can get a connection through to have a phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 From the OP According to secret information leaked by Mr Snowden through The Guardian newspaper, XKeyscore is a massive programme that sweeps up email, social media activity and all browsing history. Here is a good explanation of what it is............. The presentation is by RT, which is funded by the Russian government which is in bed with Julian Assange and has control of Edward Snowden. XKeyscore is a legal foreign intelligence program conducted in the sovereign interests of the United States and other sovereign allies. Related is the fact Prez Obama initiated discussion with Xi Jinping during their recent summit about establishing 'rules of the road' in this new area of cyber espionage and cyber theft. The United States is interested in establishing an international regime in this respect - some rules, practices and procedures that make things more clear to everyone. Previous attempts had been unsuccessful. Until we get some agreements, governments are going to continue to be anarchists in this. Like the NSA in the United States, Russian security services reportedly have far-reaching abilities to monitor telephone and internet communications in their own country through a program known by its Russian acronym SORM. For better and for worse, this pretty much is the norm for most governments of developed countries of the world today. Germany has some tough laws against this but I'd bet some domestic surveillance goes on there, searching for terrorists which like to make Germany a hangout for them. The historical reasons for tough laws in Germany are obvious. I'd bet France has such a program too, especially with Europe's largest Muslim population within its borders. French security services likely monitor phone calls, at least whenever anyone in France can get a connection through to have a phone call. For sure, Germany and France probably share data with US. Russia is really oppressive with SORM and uses domestically to oppress and jail politic opposition. ----- Manned by the countrys main security service, the FSB, this System of Operative Search Measures has been in use for more than two decades. But recently, SORM has been upgraded. It is ingesting new types of data. It is being used as Moscows main tool for spying on the countrys political protesters. And it has become extremely useful in the quest to make sure that the Kremlins influence in the former Soviet Union continues long into the second regime of Vladimir Putin http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/russias-hand/all/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Like the NSA in the United States, Russian security services reportedly have far-reaching abilities to monitor telephone and internet communications in their own country through a program known by its Russian acronym SORM. For better and for worse, this pretty much is the norm for most governments of developed countries of the world today. Germany has some tough laws against this but I'd bet some domestic surveillance goes on there, searching for terrorists which like to make Germany a hangout for them. The historical reasons for tough laws in Germany are obvious. I'd bet France has such a program too, especially with Europe's largest Muslim population within its borders. French security services likely monitor phone calls, at least whenever anyone in France can get a connection through to have a phone call. For sure, Germany and France probably share data with US. Russia is really oppressive with SORM and uses domestically to oppress and jail politic opposition. ----- Manned by the countrys main security service, the FSB, this System of Operative Search Measures has been in use for more than two decades. But recently, SORM has been upgraded. It is ingesting new types of data. It is being used as Moscows main tool for spying on the countrys political protesters. And it has become extremely useful in the quest to make sure that the Kremlins influence in the former Soviet Union continues long into the second regime of Vladimir Putin http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/russias-hand/all/ I'd like to see Wikileaks do an expose' on this particular program, which undoubtedly is one of the worst of the world, although it likely pales in comparison to the spying on citizens, along with the censorship and punishment. conducted by the CCP in the PRC. I guess Wikileaks would do such exposes when pigs fly. Why would Wikileaks damage it cozy relations with Putin. Next we'll hear Assange has been having lunch in Hong Kong with the CCP. Who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJack Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me Can you please read me the international law, paragraph and number, that makes it illegal? Immoral yes. And, once again, you might as well say don't shoot me because I am British, Canadian, NZ, Australian as well, as they are all involved. ... to many to list No. There are no Internationally recognized laws accepted in the Worldwide community as of yet. I said the Five Eyes countries are not seeing eye to eye with NSA http://www.asil.org/insights130207.cfm Public Info....taken from link above. It would be interesting to see what law was broken here in Thailand. But none on the books as of yet. Keeping the internet free for us...is also making it easy for all our governments to track us. There are some laws in the USA, but they do not apply in, for example, Thailand or Australia In December 2012, the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) convened the World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT-12) The WCIT-12 ended without consensus. Of the 144 delegations with voting rights at the WCIT-12, eighty-nine signed the revised ITRs, including many African countries, Brazil, China, Indonesia, Iran, and Russia, while fifty-five did not, including Australia, members of the European Union (EU), Canada, Japan, and the United States.[10] For countries that agree to be bound, the revised ITRs take effect on January 1, 2015 (Article 10.1) i think u are a little confused here. each country has laws that protect data from being intercepted without a warrant what you are referrring to is some international think tank working on some agreements to govern the use of the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It has been reported that Germany is the largest provider of monitored data to US intelligence in continental European countries. Allegedly by way of volume, second is France. Some additional info at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-worked-closely-with-nsa-on-data-surveillance-a-912355.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 According to wiki there are around 2.8 billion people in the world who use the Internet. Me, SinglePot, is just one of those 2.8 billion. I am not important. Xkeyscore has no relevance to me and places no imposition on my life. If it helps prevent terrorism, I am in favour. What's all the drama about? Well for a start what the USA is doing is illegal! A month before this broke the USA was barking at China for spying on it and then they get caught with their pants down. I am getting t-shirts printed now saying I am NOT an American so dont shoot me I'd suggest you might wear that T-shirt anytime you see the Thai army coming at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealth Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) It has been reported that Germany is the largest provider of monitored data to US intelligence in continental European countries. Allegedly by way of volume, second is France. Some additional info at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-worked-closely-with-nsa-on-data-surveillance-a-912355.html no! it's the UK with GCHQ within the EU . It even prostitutes itself to the NSA and got $150 000 000.00 from the NSA in secret for it's service. It's on record ... Edited August 4, 2013 by wealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It has been reported that Germany is the largest provider of monitored data to US intelligence in continental European countries. Allegedly by way of volume, second is France. Some additional info at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-worked-closely-with-nsa-on-data-surveillance-a-912355.html no! it's the UK with GCHQ . It even prostitutes itself to the NSA and got $150 000 000.00 from the NSA in secret for it's service. It's on record ... I said continental Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealth Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It has been reported that Germany is the largest provider of monitored data to US intelligence in continental European countries. Allegedly by way of volume, second is France. Some additional info at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-worked-closely-with-nsa-on-data-surveillance-a-912355.html no! it's the UK with GCHQ . It even prostitutes itself to the NSA and got $150 000 000.00 from the NSA in secret for it's service. It's on record ... I said continental Europe I stand corrected on that. But the UK I think still the biggest provider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinglePot Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 GCHQ MamaSan ok by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) It has been reported that Germany is the largest provider of monitored data to US intelligence in continental European countries. Allegedly by way of volume, second is France. Some additional info at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-worked-closely-with-nsa-on-data-surveillance-a-912355.html no! it's the UK with GCHQ . It even prostitutes itself to the NSA and got $150 000 000.00 from the NSA in secret for it's service. It's on record ... I said continental Europe I stand corrected on that. But the UK I think still the biggest provider Germany has cancelled an agreement on information-sharing with Britain and the United States, effective immediately. UK & US claims it will have no real impact on intelligence gathering. This claim is a bit odd as it has been previously claimed German data monitoring and sharing was effective. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/03/world/europe/germany-uk-privacy/?hpt=hp_t2 Edited August 4, 2013 by simple1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I am afraid that cancelling any agreement probably means very little. They will continue to share information. That's how the world of espionage works. The first time there is some chatter about a plot in Germany and the UK gov't contacts the German gov't and says 'hey we heard something. Maybe if you tell us what you know, we will tell you what we know', information is going to be shared. The other scenario is the Germans will share with another country that will in turn pass it on to the UK or US. Allied countries share intelligence information. It's simple. Intelligence does not exist in a vacuum. But hey, if it makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy and like their rights are being protected, great. Your information is probably out there....all of it....and someone, somewhere has access to it under the right conditions. What probably saves most of us is that there just isn't enough time/energy/resources/personnel to look at all our mundane crap. They are looking for specific things and most of us don't fit that profile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) I am afraid that cancelling any agreement probably means very little. They will continue to share information. That's how the world of espionage works. The first time there is some chatter about a plot in Germany and the UK gov't contacts the German gov't and says 'hey we heard something. Maybe if you tell us what you know, we will tell you what we know', information is going to be shared. The other scenario is the Germans will share with another country that will in turn pass it on to the UK or US. Allied countries share intelligence information. It's simple. Intelligence does not exist in a vacuum. Agree, that's what I was inferring by saying "a bit odd" or to put it more succinctly "bullshit baffles brains" - obviously not in your case Edited August 4, 2013 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinglePot Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 XKeyscore, relationships between NSA and GCHQ, Thai NSC etc etc etc etc are of no relevance to me and place no impositions on my life. I repeat. what is all the drama about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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