How do they know that we left the USA?

[macahoom]

I'm British, and my Thai girlfriend and I recently returned to Thailand from a holiday in the USA.

I have realised that neither of us has any proof that we actually left the US. There is no exit stamp on our passports and there was no formal "exiting" of the country. No forms were filled in; nothing like that.

How does US Immigration know we left?

Our intention is to go back, on holiday, early next year and I would like to be sure there will be no problems when we present ourselves to immigration in the airport.

I guess I'm missing something and there's a simple answer to this, hopefully.

[jmccarty]

The airline reported you were onboard and left. They would not just let everyone leave without some reporting to immigration.

Edited August 8, 2013 by jmccarty

[GrantSmith]

Did you give your passport to a USCBP Officer sitting behind a computer?

Did you see other people standing behind you with their passports in their hands?

If so... You were processed by what they call - computer - all your passport information was scanned into the computer and you were e-stamped out...

Times... They are a changing...

[macahoom]

Did you give your passport to a USCBP Officer sitting behind a computer?

Did you see other people standing behind you with their passports in their hands?

If so... You were processed by what they call - computer - all your passport information was scanned into the computer and you were e-stamped out...

Times... They are a changing...

Thank you.

Would this be the guy who was located just before the area where we put our hand baggage on the conveyor belt to have it x-rayed?

[samran]

When you entered the country a green(?) I-94 form would have been left with your passport.

When you leave the country, airline check-in, in my experience take the form and pass it onto the authorities.

Edited August 8, 2013 by samran

[NanLaew]

^^^ So they don't rely on the airline check-in staff to remove the white (or green) stub of the I-94 landing card any more?

1 ) The OP should remember filling in a white (for his GF) and a white OR green (for him) landing card which was shown to Immigration ON ARRIVAL. They leave the smaller part of that card with the passport when they hand it back.

2 ) Then, when you check-in to depart the US, the airline check-in staff removes the green (or white) stub and turn it in to Immigration for you (or lose it as they did in my case!)

3 ) I did recall seeing self-service US Immigration passport scanners at SFO. I reckoned that was for people that maybe were in airside international transit through the airport?

That's the way it used to be about 5 years ago before they banned me.

Edited August 8, 2013 by NanLaew

[GrantSmith]

Thank you.

Would this be the guy who was located just before the area where we put our hand baggage on the conveyor belt to have it x-rayed?

Did he touch you inappropriately but warn you he was going to do so beforehand?

If so, then no, he was the TSA guy... Having said that, inappropriate touching aside, it presumably went something like this...

Stand in line, take off shoes and any metallic objects, place into non descript "bucket" like object, put bucket like object onto conveyor belt type contraption, go through metal detector, hopefully not setting off alarms on the first attempt.

Retrieve items from other side of conveyor belt and re-attach appropriately, possibly be asked to submit for an explosive trace element test...

Follow the masses to the promised land.. I mean the next queue and await further instructions...

Having reached the pearly gates.. I mean the USCBP counter, you would have handed over your passport(s) and boarding pass to the officer. He/She would have then scanned your passport, pressed a few buttons, made sure your name(s) didn't show up on any "no fly" lists, checked your details all matched and electronically stamped you out...

The key word here is "electronically"

[NanLaew]

Having reached the pearly gates.. I mean the USCBP counter, you would have handed over your passport(s) and boarding pass to the officer. He/She would have then scanned your passport, pressed a few buttons, made sure your name(s) didn't show up on any "no fly" lists, checked your details all matched and electronically stamped you out...

The key word here is "electronically"

Now that you mention it, on my last 2 exits from the US over five years ago, this was the 'new' procedure at Houston Intercontinental. But I reckon that was a TSA departure security scan and bugger all to do with Immigration and the removal of the I-94 stub which is still done at check-in? Could be wrong. Just need to see if the OP remembers anything at all. It WAS the US wasn't it?

[macahoom]

Thank you.

Would this be the guy who was located just before the area where we put our hand baggage on the conveyor belt to have it x-rayed?

Did he touch you inappropriately but warn you he was going to do so beforehand?

If so, then no, he was the TSA guy... Having said that, inappropriate touching aside, it presumably went something like this...

Stand in line, take off shoes and any metallic objects, place into non descript "bucket" like object, put bucket like object onto conveyor belt type contraption, go through metal detector, hopefully not setting off alarms on the first attempt.

Retrieve items from other side of conveyor belt and re-attach appropriately, possibly be asked to submit for an explosive trace element test...

Follow the masses to the promised land.. I mean the next queue and await further instructions...

Having reached the pearly gates.. I mean the USCBP counter, you would have handed over your passport(s) and boarding pass to the officer. He/She would have then scanned your passport, pressed a few buttons, made sure your name(s) didn't show up on any "no fly" lists, checked your details all matched and electronically stamped you out...

The key word here is "electronically"

First of all, there were no cards or bits of paper attached to our passports. That must be old school.

I'm sure what you say about the USCBP counter is correct - you seem to know what you're talking about - but we don't remember anything like that. We just remember showing our boarding cards to the girl at the gate before boarding. Don't recall showing our passports to anyone after the conveyor belt x-ray area.

[samran]

If you are really worried that you didn't get 'checked out' properly, then there is an address in Tenassee you can write to advising them you have left the US within the alloted visa time. Send a copy of your PP with any entry stamps from subsequent countries, plus copies of any boarding passes etc...whatever you have.

Years ago my wife left the US from a dinky airport somewhere and they didn't take her I-94 card, which potentially meant she could have looked to 'appear' as she was an overstay. We posted off her I-94 as well as passports showing she'd left and been elsewhere and she had no problem entering the US on subsequent trips.

[Shot]

Passports do not get stamped while leaving the US. US Immigration and Border Patrol save each passenger's record on leaving the country through information supplied by airlines. After you've left the US your file is updated electronically.

[Chicken George]

Be assured the USA has a file on you!

[qdinthailand]

Be assured the USA knows where you are, what bank you use, who you contact, what time you get up in the morning...

[moradave]

If you are in Thailand you have obviously left the USA which was your last entry stamp. Whats to prove? If US authorities want to detain you, they will.

[maxman71]

In addition to the actions stated above that take place that documents someone leaving the US, your entry stamp to your next destination outside the US would also serve to document you left the US.

[Nana Cowboy]

Exit border control areas aren't necessary. All they do is clog everything up. It's enough of a hassle checking into the airline, who needs an extra nonsense step. The airlines have the info. Border control officers are not necessary. Thailand airport procedures are stone age so every non USA citizen flips leaving the USA without going thru this foolish time wasting unnecessary nonsense known as exit border control. It would be nice to get online international check-in for Thais so they dont have to do stone age wait on regular check in line. It's backwards baby, the world has moved forward. Thailand stays back. Not going to change, just live with it

[NewlyMintedThai]

Exit border control areas aren't necessary. All they do is clog everything up. It's enough of a hassle checking into the airline, who needs an extra nonsense step. The airlines have the info. Border control officers are not necessary. Thailand airport procedures are stone age so every non USA citizen flips leaving the USA without going thru this foolish time wasting unnecessary nonsense known as exit border control. It would be nice to get online international check-in for Thais so they dont have to do stone age wait on regular check in line. It's backwards baby, the world has moved forward. Thailand stays back. Not going to change, just live with it

Where else but the USA are there no exit border controls in place?

You make it sound like Thailand is the last country on earth with these procedures.

[7by7]

The UK.

Exit controls at UK airports were abolished over 15 years ago as a cost saving exercise.

But the current government are talking about reintroducing them as a measure to discourage and/or catch overstayers and other illegals.

Good job too, in my opinion.

[Jay Sata]

Surely it's not too difficult to to interface the airline records to the Border Agency?

I'm sure GCHQ has a record of all travel in and out of the UK.

[7by7]

Airlines don't check how long a passenger has been in the UK for nor what type of UK visa they hold nor if that visa has expired or not. All they are interested in is whether or not the passenger has the correct entry clearance for their destination.

However, I'm sure they could scan the passport and link it to the UKV&I data base; if they were prepared to do the Home Office's work for them!

If they did, I'm sure that people like Liberty would be up in arms!

But this is a topic about leaving the USA, not the UK and my initial post was in response to a specific question.

If you want to discuss leaving the UK, best we do so elsewhere I think.

[impulse]

Does anybody have first or second hand experience with leaving the USA after a long overstay? I can also imagine someone hopping on a plane while there's a warrant out on them for a serious crime.

I suspect the airline information would be required by the Gov long before the plane took off, but I've never thought about it. 20-30 years ago, the technology didn't exist, and I don't think they had exit checks back then.

It sure is convenient to not have to wait in yet another line while traveling.

[NanLaew]

Things have changed Samran. Before the OP gets all indignant about us fossils talking about US landing cards...

"The I-94 paper form will no longer be required for international visitors arriving by sea or by air. Instead, all arrival and departure information will be gathered electronically at a custom-made website, CBP.gov/I94, where visitors can verify immigration status or employment authorization, as well as record number and admission information. These system shift will be in effect at 5 airports (Charlotte, Chicago, Las Vegas, Miami, and Orlando) from April 30, 2013, and will be progressively introduced at other major port of entries at the latest on May 21, 2013."

Look here for the new procedures.

So, to answer the OP's question, the airline check-in computer is now linked directly to the US Immigration computer and by checking-in with the airline, you are simultaneously checking-out with the US. You and your GF have, like Elvis, left the building!

I am fixing to get un-banned before the end of the year so I better bone up on US Immigration 101. Apart from a passport and a ticket, all one needs to do these days to go TO the US, with or without a visa, is to apply online for an ESTA for which they now charge $14 btw! That way, you are in their 'system' well before you get near the departing airport.

[NanLaew]

....., your entry stamp to your next destination outside the US would also serve to document you left the US.

Which is all well and good unless you are departing the US for your HOME country where the passport doesn't get stamped. Even entering an EU country, the UK passport doesn't get stamped. Hence my current buggerisation with the US Immigration when they started their shenanigans with me over 'alleged' overstays from over 12 years ago! They placed the onus on me to prove that I had NOT over stayed without legal recourse to their database to see what dates were in contention. The Immigration cop at the time glibly suggested 'use your passport stamps' until I reminded him that HIS passport doesn't get a stamp when HE comes home from a foreign trip and I am on my 3rd passport since 2000. Then he suggested looking for my old boarding passes.... but I couldn't leave the airport. Seriously!

Personally, I would prefer that ALL countries either stamp you in AND out of their jurisdiction OR get fully online with the efficiently ominous, unseen data-sharing in the background. Swipe and go.... or not go if they so decide.

[NanLaew]

Does anybody have first or second hand experience with leaving the USA after a long overstay? I can also imagine someone hopping on a plane while there's a warrant out on them for a serious crime.

I suspect the airline information would be required by the Gov long before the plane took off, but I've never thought about it. 20-30 years ago, the technology didn't exist, and I don't think they had exit checks back then.

It sure is convenient to not have to wait in yet another line while traveling.

My only experience (see above) is with alleged overstays when trying to re-enter the US. As you suggest, I think with the old way of landing cards and the 'honesty' system, serial killers and the like could quite easily slip away unnoticed. After some crime has made the headlines, you seldom here the newsreader stating the rather obvious, 'Sheriff's deputy's and FBI officers are also watching the local airport.' They are always 'watching' these days.

With a whole lot of other government and law enforcement computers sharing a 'live' database with the airlines, I reckon the international check-in areas have some plain clothes 'men in black' waiting in the wings for the really dodgy ones.

[NanLaew]

More interesting reading here, namely.

"As the I-94 entry record will be automated, the Social Security Administration and state departments of motor vehicles agencies will refer to information collected by the CBP officer during the foreign national’s last entry into the U.S. It is expected that the automated process will reduce the processing times in which the Social Security Administration issues Social Security Numbers, and state departments of motor vehicles issue driver’s licenses. However, applicants should consider bringing a copy of the I-94 entry record to these offices when applying for a benefit. Furthermore, while foreign nationals will have access to the I-94 entry record through the CBP website while they are in the United States, once they leave the country, there will be no more access given to the I-94 entry record information. Foreign nationals in the U.S. and, where applicable, their U.S. employer, should retain paper or electronic copies of the I-94 card. This will help re-construct an individual’s immigration history and U.S. presence in the future, if necessary. Because this program is new and it is not known how well it will function, the CBP may make adjustments and changes as needed and give proper notice."

From my two points of emphasis above;

Point #1: There's already one federal and 50 state governments with direct access to your US immigration data.

Point #2: The onus is on YOU, the traveler to maintain your own hard copy of all your US entries and exits.