Russia will enforce anti-gay propaganda law at Sochi Olympics, govt says

[News_Editor]

MOSCOW, RUSSIA (BNO NEWS) -- Russia will enforce its controversial anti-gay propaganda law during next year's Winter Olympics in Sochi, the country's interior ministry confirmed Monday after weeks of conflicting reports. It has caused some officials and groups to call for a complete boycott of the event.

The Interior Ministry, which controls Russia's police forces, ensured athletes and guests will face no discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation during the 2014 Winter Olympics. "Consider such claims only as an attempt to undermine the credibility of the upcoming Olympic Games in Sochi," a statement said.

But the ministry emphasized the country's controversial anti-gay propaganda law applies to the entire Russian Federation, and as such will also be enforced during the Winter Olympics in Sochi. "The Ministry of Internal Affairs will, during the Olympic Games, as well as at any other time, operate under Russian law in general and also apply the law on the protection of children from promoting non-traditional sexual relationships," it said.

The government further explained that the law only targets those who encourage children to enter into same-sex relationships, and not gays in general. "Law enforcement measures will be applied in accordance with Russian law against persons carrying out such activities," the ministry said.

Alexander Zhukov, the head of Russia's National Olympic Committee, told the RIA Novosti news agency on Monday that gays will be able to take part in the event without any fears for their safety. "If a person does not put across his views in the presence of children, no measures against him can be taken," he said.

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) had indicated last month that the Russian government did not plan to enforce the anti-gay propaganda law during the 2014 Winter Olympics. "The IOC has received assurances from the highest level of government in Russia that the legislation will not affect those attending or taking part in the Games," an IOC spokesperson said in a statement last month.

The Committee described sport is a human right which should be available to all regardless of race, sex or sexual orientation. "The Games themselves should be open to all, free of discrimination, and that applies to spectators, officials, media and of course athletes," the IOC said. "We would oppose in the strongest terms any move that would jeopardize this principle."

Reports that Russia may enforce the controversial law during the Winter Olympics had raised international concern in recent weeks, with some pro-LGBT groups, officials and celebrities calling for a boycott of the event. But others, such as British Prime Minister David Cameron and U.S. President Barack Obama, said a boycott would not be helpful.

"I want to just make very clear right now [that] I do not think it's appropriate to boycott the Olympics," Obama said at a news conference last week. "We've got a bunch of Americans out there who are training hard, who are doing everything they can to succeed. Nobody is more offended than me by some of the anti-gay and lesbian legislation that you've been seeing in Russia."

The 2014 Winter Olympics are scheduled to take place from 7 to 23 February in Sochi, a city on the Black Sea coast of Russia.

(Copyright 2013 by BNO News B.V. All rights reserved. Info: [email protected].)

[Scott]

There is a thread that discusses some of this issue in the Gay Forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/650565-russias-anti-gay-laws-have-teeth-gay-priders-assaulted/page-8#entry6711264

[Jingthing]

The dictator of Russia, Putin, yes he is a dictator, is scapegoating a very unpopular minority group for his own political gain. He is also being aided by violent and even murderous Neo-Nazi thug enforcers as Russia has the largest number of fascist Neo-Nazis in the world today. Sound familiar?

Some may wonder ... how could it be this way in 2013 in a country like Russia that had appeared to make so much progress in shaking it's Soviet past?

The answer perhaps is that Russia is very different, and the roots of Russian toxic homophobia seen today, were already there WELL BEFORE Putin. Putin is just exploiting that vein of hatred and intolerance.

Some cultural and historical background for your consideration:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-russias-science-of-sex-threatens-gays/2013/08/09/b1a21128-fedf-11e2-96a8-d3b921c0924a_story.html

No such luck. Russia is nearly as difficult a place to be gay today as it was under the Soviet regime.

[bangkokrick]

Another huge backward step by Putin.I say Putin rather than the Russians because he sure does not have the interests of the population at heart.

[Jingthing]

Another huge backward step by Putin.I say Putin rather than the Russians because he sure does not have the interests of the population at heart.

But these laws are VERY POPULAR according to surveys, and the vast majority of Russian people are homophobic. So he is reflecting the public's hatred of gay people which of course continues to prop him up politically. Those are the best kinds of groups to SCAPEGOAT, groups that the public already hates.

Of course Putin is culpable. This recent wave of violent attacks on gay people in Russia by the thug groups, posted on the internet, are of course very horrible. Has Putin made a speech denouncing these attacks and making it clear these murderous thugs will be hunted down and prosecuted? In other words, showing some level of civilized leadership even with these ridiculous new laws? Not a peep. The feeling is that Putin is implicitly endorsing this wave of TERROR against the gay people of Russia. YES, it is like the earlier days of Hitler's persecution of Jews.

[bangkokrick]

Another huge backward step by Putin.I say Putin rather than the Russians because he sure does not have the interests of the population at heart.

But these laws are VERY POPULAR according to surveys, and the vast majority of Russian people are homophobic. So he is reflecting the public's hatred of gay people which of course continues to prop him up politically. Those are the best kinds of groups to SCAPEGOAT, groups that the public already hates.

Very popular according to surveys, just about says it all! I think most Russian people don't give a damn either way as they are just getting on with their lives. The right wing groups will of course do the necessary when called upon to assist in enforcing these archaic laws.

Can you just imagine these thugs attacking the visiting athletes and supporters during the Olympics. Ferking outrageous in my opinion and the games should be relocated.

[Jingthing]

To be clear Sochi and the persecution of gays in Russia are two separate things.

However, many people are looking at Sochi as a well timed opportunity to focus the world's attention more on the persecution to at least try to help the group being targeted, the gay people of Russia.

Some background on how this issue is growing bigger and bigger, and no, it's not going away anytime soon, it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far):

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/08/a-test-for-gay-rights-in-sochi.html

Among observers of Russian politics, Putin’s anti-gay crusade is seen primarily as an effort to curry favor with the Russian Orthodox Church and to distract the Russian middle class from crushing economic hardships and thuggish, authoritarian governance. But among human-rights activists (and a growing number of Olympic fans), his polices are seen as having a real, and terrible, effect on gay-rights crusaders in Russia, who have been harassed, arrested, and beaten.

But there is also no mistaking that there is a new political environment for gay rights in Russia, one in which Putin’s campaign is drawing substantial international attention. Gays and lesbians there are not as radically isolated as they were a decade ago. Chad Griffin, the president of the Human Rights Campaign, the largest gay-rights organization in the U.S., recently called on NBC, the television sponsor of the Olympics—and Leno’s network—to initiate broad news coverage of the mistreatment of gays in Russia. There have also been calls for a boycott of the Games. (There is a grassroots boycott of Russian vodka being promoted in gay bars in major American cities.) But most athletes, including gay athletes, believe that a more significant political statement can be made by attending and participating in the games while protesting the law, and by showcasing broad support for gay rights in an arena rich with history and symbolism. Think of a gay Jesse Owens-type figure on a Olympic-medal platform, or of the raised-fist human-rights protest from medalists at the 1968 Summer Games.

Brian Ellner, a longtime gay-rights activist who is on the board of Athlete Ally, an organization that advocates for gays in sports, told me that “as with the marriage fights, our goal here is to build a broad coalition of relationships to support the L.G.B.T. community in Russia and L.G.B.T. athletes around the world. A boycott can alienate. But our goal is to stand with an army of Olympians and fans at the Games

[jamhar]

Why do i get the feeling that

at this winter Olympics?

Get the popcorn out, this may get ugly!

[Jingthing]

Why do i get the feeling that

at this winter Olympics?

Get the popcorn out, this may get ugly!

It won't only be sports news, that's for sure.

There won't be a boycott and there won't be a host nation change though.

Sochi is on for better or worse.

[bangkokrick]

Cast your minds back to the European Championships held in Russia and surrounding Countries 2012. The organisers were warned of racism and racist acts of violence before the event began. True to form the tournament was littered with violent racist attacks on the public and racist chants directed at the players. It could well be the same case during the Winter Olympics especially concerning the Gay population.

Live and let live. I say.

[partington]

I still don't understand why relocation of the Games isn't an option. After the IOC were given misleading assurances by the Russian hosts, and given that it is integral to the Olympic charter that athletes should be able to participate free of discrimination on any grounds, hasn't Russia's admission now completely altered the situation?

For one thing, this legislation clearly means that openly gay Russian athletes are already being discriminated against in their own country. Conceivably, an athlete from any country who decides to wear a rainbow badge while competing in the Games would also be a subject of their foul laws, if a child happens to be watching. Even on TV.

At the same time it is optimistic to expect any effective opposition by athletes themselves, since the majority of Muslim and African countries agree explicitly with these kinds of laws, and even in Europe and the US it is rare for athletes to reveal themselves as gay, or openly support gay causes, because of possible adverse effects on their careers. (God alone knows what chants a gay footballer would face in the UK, where for example, it is not unusual for bananas to be thrown onto the field when a black player gets the ball.)

Simple relocation allows the principles of the Olympic charter to be adhered to, and all the athletes to compete, including the Russians.

It only punishes the country , symbolically and deservedly.

[Jingthing]

I think logistics and commercial inertia more than anything. I think it's basically too late for that.

[partington]

I'm sure you're right.

But seriously, if it was important for the IOC spokesman to be able to make a public announcement that these laws would not apply to participants only a month ago, why is it not important now that this statement turns out to be false?

Now what can they say: our statement of last month wasn't true, but it actually doesn't matter to us anyway whether these laws apply or not?

They are now caught in a contradiction of their own making.

[LeCharivari]

I still don't understand why relocation of the Games isn't an option. After the IOC were given misleading assurances by the Russian hosts, and given that it is integral to the Olympic charter that athletes should be able to participate free of discrimination on any grounds, hasn't Russia's admission now completely altered the situation?

For one thing, this legislation clearly means that openly gay Russian athletes are already being discriminated against in their own country. Conceivably, an athlete from any country who decides to wear a rainbow badge while competing in the Games would also be a subject of their foul laws, if a child happens to be watching. Even on TV.

At the same time it is optimistic to expect any effective opposition by athletes themselves, since the majority of Muslim and African countries agree explicitly with these kinds of laws, and even in Europe and the US it is rare for athletes to reveal themselves as gay, or openly support gay causes, because of possible adverse effects on their careers. (God alone knows what chants a gay footballer would face in the UK, where for example, it is not unusual for bananas to be thrown onto the field when a black player gets the ball.)

Simple relocation allows the principles of the Olympic charter to be adhered to, and all the athletes to compete, including the Russians.

It only punishes the country , symbolically and deservedly.

"... given that it is integral to the Olympic charter that athletes should be able to participate free of discrimination on any grounds, hasn't Russia's admission now completely altered the situation?"

No. All athletes CAN participate free from discrimination - any claim that they can't is simply unfounded anti-Putin propoganda.

"For one thing, this legislation clearly means that openly gay Russian athletes are already being discriminated against in their own country."

Maybe you should read the legislation - it has nothing to do with discrimination.

"Simple relocation allows the principles of the Olympic charter to be adhered to, and all the athletes to compete, including the Russians.

It only punishes the country , symbolically and deservedly."

Punishing the country for what? Applying a law that the vast majority of the population support but which is now being twisted by Putin's political opponents to be something it is not?

All this outrage is about politics, nothing more - it has nothing to do with gay rights or other countries would "deserve" to be "punished" far more.

[LeCharivari]

To be clear Sochi and the persecution of gays in Russia are two separate things.

However, many people are looking at Sochi as a well timed opportunity to focus the world's attention more on the persecution to at least try to help the group being targeted, the gay people of Russia.

Some background on how this issue is growing bigger and bigger, and no, it's not going away anytime soon, it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far):

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/08/a-test-for-gay-rights-in-sochi.html

Among observers of Russian politics, Putin’s anti-gay crusade is seen primarily as an effort to curry favor with the Russian Orthodox Church and to distract the Russian middle class from crushing economic hardships and thuggish, authoritarian governance. But among human-rights activists (and a growing number of Olympic fans), his polices are seen as having a real, and terrible, effect on gay-rights crusaders in Russia, who have been harassed, arrested, and beaten.

But there is also no mistaking that there is a new political environment for gay rights in Russia, one in which Putin’s campaign is drawing substantial international attention. Gays and lesbians there are not as radically isolated as they were a decade ago. Chad Griffin, the president of the Human Rights Campaign, the largest gay-rights organization in the U.S., recently called on NBC, the television sponsor of the Olympics—and Leno’s network—to initiate broad news coverage of the mistreatment of gays in Russia. There have also been calls for a boycott of the Games. (There is a grassroots boycott of Russian vodka being promoted in gay bars in major American cities.) But most athletes, including gay athletes, believe that a more significant political statement can be made by attending and participating in the games while protesting the law, and by showcasing broad support for gay rights in an arena rich with history and symbolism. Think of a gay Jesse Owens-type figure on a Olympic-medal platform, or of the raised-fist human-rights protest from medalists at the 1968 Summer Games.

Brian Ellner, a longtime gay-rights activist who is on the board of Athlete Ally, an organization that advocates for gays in sports, told me that “as with the marriage fights, our goal here is to build a broad coalition of relationships to support the L.G.B.T. community in Russia and L.G.B.T. athletes around the world. A boycott can alienate. But our goal is to stand with an army of Olympians and fans at the Games

"... it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far)"

.... well, its certainly the biggest perversion of "gay rights" for purely political ends in history.

This "story" has NOTHING to do with gay rights - if it did it would be about another country (one of many, such as Jamaica) with a far worse recent record of discrimination, violence and anti-gay laws, but they have been totally ignored.

Its all about politics - particularly American politics.

[Publicus]

The most recent Winter Olympic Games were held in Vancouver in February 2010.

Logistically Vancouver is the most prepared city to host a relocating of the Sochi Winter Games of next year.

Relocating to Vancouver would create a madhouse rush, but I'm confident the Canadians and the IOC could do it. I don't doubt Vancouver, British Columbia and Canada would welcome the challenge and do well by it. All the athletes would need to do is to change their flight reservations.

Putin has too much going against him to accommodate his tyrannical leadership of a country that should be and needs to be much more developed than it is. Give both Putin, a tsar in a business suit, and the vast majority of Russians a good cold water wake up call. Both are being openly and brazenly reactionary and proud of it. An example needs to be made here.

I'd like to hear from the IOC and the Canadians what the possibilities and the probabilities are in this respect. It's worth looking into.

[LeCharivari]

Another huge backward step by Putin.I say Putin rather than the Russians because he sure does not have the interests of the population at heart.

But these laws are VERY POPULAR according to surveys, and the vast majority of Russian people are homophobic. So he is reflecting the public's hatred of gay people which of course continues to prop him up politically. Those are the best kinds of groups to SCAPEGOAT, groups that the public already hates.

Very popular according to surveys, just about says it all! I think most Russian people don't give a dam_n either way as they are just getting on with their lives. The right wing groups will of course do the necessary when called upon to assist in enforcing these archaic laws.

Can you just imagine these thugs attacking the visiting athletes and supporters during the Olympics. Ferking outrageous in my opinion and the games should be relocated.

".... these archaic laws"

They were passed last month and have yet to be implemented - hardly "archaic".

One thing you can rest assured of is that Russia will showcase the games and do everything possible to prevent any "thugs attacking the visiting athletes and supporters during the Olympics". It simply won't happen, and as grounds for relocating the games its baseless.

[LeCharivari]

The most recent Winter Olympic Games were held in Vancouver in February 2010.

Logistically Vancouver is the most prepared city to host a relocating of the Sochi Winter Games of next year.

Relocating to Vancouver would create a madhouse rush, but I'm confident the Canadians and the IOC could do it. I don't doubt Vancouver, British Columbia and Canada would welcome the challenge and do well by it. All the athletes would need to do is to change their flight reservations.

Putin has too much going against him to accommodate his tyrannical leadership of a country that should be and needs to be much more developed than it is. Give both Putin, a tsar in a business suit, and the vast majority of Russians a good cold water wake up call. Both are being openly and brazenly reactionary and proud of it. An example needs to be made here.

I'd like to hear from the IOC and the Canadians what the possibilities and the probabilities are in this respect. It's worth looking into.

"Putin has too much going against him to accommodate his tyrannical leadership of a country that should be and needs to be much more developed than it is. Give both Putin, a tsar in a business suit, and the vast majority of Russians a good cold water wake up call. Both are being openly and brazenly reactionary and proud of it. An example needs to be made here."

Thank you for that - NOTHING to do with gay rights or anti-gay laws at all. Just an excuse for political maneuvering.

[Publicus]

To be clear Sochi and the persecution of gays in Russia are two separate things.

However, many people are looking at Sochi as a well timed opportunity to focus the world's attention more on the persecution to at least try to help the group being targeted, the gay people of Russia.

Some background on how this issue is growing bigger and bigger, and no, it's not going away anytime soon, it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far):

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/08/a-test-for-gay-rights-in-sochi.html

Among observers of Russian politics, Putin’s anti-gay crusade is seen primarily as an effort to curry favor with the Russian Orthodox Church and to distract the Russian middle class from crushing economic hardships and thuggish, authoritarian governance. But among human-rights activists (and a growing number of Olympic fans), his polices are seen as having a real, and terrible, effect on gay-rights crusaders in Russia, who have been harassed, arrested, and beaten.

But there is also no mistaking that there is a new political environment for gay rights in Russia, one in which Putin’s campaign is drawing substantial international attention. Gays and lesbians there are not as radically isolated as they were a decade ago. Chad Griffin, the president of the Human Rights Campaign, the largest gay-rights organization in the U.S., recently called on NBC, the television sponsor of the Olympics—and Leno’s network—to initiate broad news coverage of the mistreatment of gays in Russia. There have also been calls for a boycott of the Games. (There is a grassroots boycott of Russian vodka being promoted in gay bars in major American cities.) But most athletes, including gay athletes, believe that a more significant political statement can be made by attending and participating in the games while protesting the law, and by showcasing broad support for gay rights in an arena rich with history and symbolism. Think of a gay Jesse Owens-type figure on a Olympic-medal platform, or of the raised-fist human-rights protest from medalists at the 1968 Summer Games.

Brian Ellner, a longtime gay-rights activist who is on the board of Athlete Ally, an organization that advocates for gays in sports, told me that “as with the marriage fights, our goal here is to build a broad coalition of relationships to support the L.G.B.T. community in Russia and L.G.B.T. athletes around the world. A boycott can alienate. But our goal is to stand with an army of Olympians and fans at the Games

"... it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far)"

.... well, its certainly the biggest perversion of "gay rights" for purely political ends in history.

This "story" has NOTHING to do with gay rights - if it did it would be about another country (one of many, such as Jamaica) with a far worse recent record of discrimination, violence and anti-gay laws, but they have been totally ignored.

Its all about politics - particularly American politics.

Jamaica is not hosting the International Olympic Games.

[Publicus]

The most recent Winter Olympic Games were held in Vancouver in February 2010.

Logistically Vancouver is the most prepared city to host a relocating of the Sochi Winter Games of next year.

Relocating to Vancouver would create a madhouse rush, but I'm confident the Canadians and the IOC could do it. I don't doubt Vancouver, British Columbia and Canada would welcome the challenge and do well by it. All the athletes would need to do is to change their flight reservations.

Putin has too much going against him to accommodate his tyrannical leadership of a country that should be and needs to be much more developed than it is. Give both Putin, a tsar in a business suit, and the vast majority of Russians a good cold water wake up call. Both are being openly and brazenly reactionary and proud of it. An example needs to be made here.

I'd like to hear from the IOC and the Canadians what the possibilities and the probabilities are in this respect. It's worth looking into.

"Putin has too much going against him to accommodate his tyrannical leadership of a country that should be and needs to be much more developed than it is. Give both Putin, a tsar in a business suit, and the vast majority of Russians a good cold water wake up call. Both are being openly and brazenly reactionary and proud of it. An example needs to be made here."

Thank you for that - NOTHING to do with gay rights or anti-gay laws at all. Just an excuse for political maneuvering.

Gay bashing is politics. Laws about gays come from politics and political processes, same as laws in respect to anything else and everything else.

Saying this is about politics is like saying the sun rises each day.

[sustento]

To be clear Sochi and the persecution of gays in Russia are two separate things.

However, many people are looking at Sochi as a well timed opportunity to focus the world's attention more on the persecution to at least try to help the group being targeted, the gay people of Russia.

Some background on how this issue is growing bigger and bigger, and no, it's not going away anytime soon, it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far):

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/08/a-test-for-gay-rights-in-sochi.html

Among observers of Russian politics, Putin’s anti-gay crusade is seen primarily as an effort to curry favor with the Russian Orthodox Church and to distract the Russian middle class from crushing economic hardships and thuggish, authoritarian governance. But among human-rights activists (and a growing number of Olympic fans), his polices are seen as having a real, and terrible, effect on gay-rights crusaders in Russia, who have been harassed, arrested, and beaten.

But there is also no mistaking that there is a new political environment for gay rights in Russia, one in which Putin’s campaign is drawing substantial international attention. Gays and lesbians there are not as radically isolated as they were a decade ago. Chad Griffin, the president of the Human Rights Campaign, the largest gay-rights organization in the U.S., recently called on NBC, the television sponsor of the Olympics—and Leno’s network—to initiate broad news coverage of the mistreatment of gays in Russia. There have also been calls for a boycott of the Games. (There is a grassroots boycott of Russian vodka being promoted in gay bars in major American cities.) But most athletes, including gay athletes, believe that a more significant political statement can be made by attending and participating in the games while protesting the law, and by showcasing broad support for gay rights in an arena rich with history and symbolism. Think of a gay Jesse Owens-type figure on a Olympic-medal platform, or of the raised-fist human-rights protest from medalists at the 1968 Summer Games.

Brian Ellner, a longtime gay-rights activist who is on the board of Athlete Ally, an organization that advocates for gays in sports, told me that “as with the marriage fights, our goal here is to build a broad coalition of relationships to support the L.G.B.T. community in Russia and L.G.B.T. athletes around the world. A boycott can alienate. But our goal is to stand with an army of Olympians and fans at the Games

"... it's likely to be the BIGGEST international gay rights story in history (so far)"

.... well, its certainly the biggest perversion of "gay rights" for purely political ends in history.

This "story" has NOTHING to do with gay rights - if it did it would be about another country (one of many, such as Jamaica) with a far worse recent record of discrimination, violence and anti-gay laws, but they have been totally ignored.

Its all about politics - particularly American politics.

Jamaica is not hosting the International Olympic Games.

So it's not actually about gay rights - it's about the maximum amount of publicity available?

[Publicus]

It's about the legal terms and conditions of hosting the International Olympic Games and about the atmosphere and the spirit of it.

It's been pointed out the Russian Government already is backtracking on a statement it had made a month ago.

[Jingthing]

This news story concerns Russia, not Jamaica. Yes, there are nations more homophobic than Russia, which is saying something these days, but right now Russia is under the spotlight because of Putin's new anti-gay laws, the Neo Nazi violent attacks, and Sochi coming up. Culturally, Russia has a connection to Europe and we don't expect such countries to be so ruthlessly scapegoating minorities in this day and age. We can't talk about everything in the world in one thread, can we?

(Also note, Jamaica has under 3 million people, Russia 143 million.)

[Jingthing]

...

.... well, its certainly the biggest perversion of "gay rights" for purely political ends in history.

...

So let's get this straight. As a gay man (something you have been very public about so this is no outing), are you for or against gay rights in Russia? Do you think the situation of Russian gays right now is acceptable? Do you think wearing a rainbow pin should be criminalized? Such things as the Neo-Nazi thugs violently attacking Russian gays which have greatly spiked since Putin's new anti-gay laws? Do you think its OK that Putin hasn't cracked down on these Nazi gay beating thugs, in effect, giving them a pass? I ASSUME you don't think this situation is acceptable. I certainly hope not. So why, why, why all this NOISE against people (gay and straight) who CARE to raise their voices against the persecution of gays in Russia?

Politics in anything and everything is a fact of life, not really any kind of relevant attack.

In my opinion, MOST people in the world who identify as gay/lesbian if they are made aware of the situation in Russia would SUPPORT exploring ways to communicate opposition to Putin's anti gay laws, the extreme homophobia of the Russian people, the Neo-Nazi thug attackers, etc, and see SOCHI as a timely opportunity to make that opposition bigger. Now the exact tactics, that's hard, people are working on that in Russia and internationally, it's above my pay grade anyway to say exactly. There isn't going to be a perfect answer but there is going to be something.

[LeCharivari]

The dictator of Russia, Putin, yes he is a dictator, is scapegoating a very unpopular minority group for his own political gain. He is also being aided by violent and even murderous Neo-Nazi thug enforcers as Russia has the largest number of fascist Neo-Nazis in the world today. Sound familiar?

Some may wonder ... how could it be this way in 2013 in a country like Russia that had appeared to make so much progress in shaking it's Soviet past?

The answer perhaps is that Russia is very different, and the roots of Russian toxic homophobia seen today, were already there WELL BEFORE Putin. Putin is just exploiting that vein of hatred and intolerance.

Some cultural and historical background for your consideration:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-russias-science-of-sex-threatens-gays/2013/08/09/b1a21128-fedf-11e2-96a8-d3b921c0924a_story.html

No such luck. Russia is nearly as difficult a place to be gay today as it was under the Soviet regime.

For anyone who "may wonder ... how could it be this way in 2013 in a country like Russia" this question is asked and answered (at considerable length) in the thread Scott referred to ( http://www.thaivisa....-8#entry6711264 ) in the Gay Forum.

In summary, things weren't too bad for gay Russians at the turn of the Millennium. Homosexuality had been de-criminalised (in 1993) and gays were largely ignored by everyone - no political parties had any interest in gays or gay issues. In 1999 homosexuality was removed from the Russian list of mental disorders. There were a few low-key gay bars, primarily in Moscow and St Petersburg, and some low-key LGBT human rights organisations which folded due to a lack of interest.

Then, in 2005/6, ONE Russian gay activist (Nikolay Alexeyev) , with the support of a few "international" gay activists but against the advice of his fellow Russian gays and gay activists decided BY HIS OWN ADMISSION to stir things up and to deliberately make it a political issue:

"Homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia in 1993. From 1993 to 2005, the topic was mostly out of the political sphere. Gays were not really fighting for their rights for the last decade. Not until 2005, when our organization Gay Russia appeared, did it start to come back on the political agenda.

....We have managed to bring the issue of rights for homosexual people on the political agenda, which was not the case in 2005.

....So in two years we really managed to bring this issue into the political agenda. The Russian President Vladimir Putin for the first time said something on gay issues. This is the biggest achievement."

( http://inthesetimes.com/article/3424/dark_side_of_russias_rainbow/ )

That led to local bans on Gay Pride events, but nothing at a national level.

On May 8 2009 the Russian Duma REJECTED the now approved law on "gay propaganda", with only 90 out of 450 supporting it. Three days later the same ONE Russian activist started a "gay marriage" campaign as the Pride events were being allowed, getting police protection, and not generating enough attention in Russia. That got plenty of attention.

In 2011 Nikolay lost his largely US based funding and sponsorship and had to resign from the Russian LGBT rights groups he had founded as he lost his support both at home and abroad and those LGBT organisations tried to distance themselves from him. Too late.

Anyone who "may wonder ... how could it be this way in 2013 in a country like Russia" only has to look at the FACTS of recent history and the timeline of events, as well as Nikolay's OWN view of his "biggest achievement".

I am not defending the laws or Putin, simply stating the FACTS. Some Putin-bashers (gay or straight) may not like that as it doesn't suit their own political agenda, but the FACTS are what they are - all the necessary links are in the thread referred to, and available with any search. If the laws are so "anti-gay" they could be banned by the ECHR which Russia is subject to, but the simple FACT is that they aren't.

The thread in the Gay Forum also makes it abundantly clear that gays HERE do NOT generally support the view that "Putin's anti-gay crusade" even exists and that only ONE gay poster has that view HERE; links in that thread also show that there is widespread opposition to this view internationally.

This is about AMERICAN ANTI-PUTIN POLITICS. I don't know enough about him or Russian politics to know if those politics are justified or not, but the FACTS make it clear that Putin was NOT responsible for starting or even supporting any sort of "anti-gay crusade", that the anti gay propaganda laws will make NO difference to the majority of Russian gays who simply want to be left alone, and that they will make NO difference to anyone competing in or attending the games unless they want to make the games into an anti-Putin political arena.

[Jingthing]

That meme above is the OPINION of one person. He blames ONE Russian gay activist on the situation of gays in Russia today. Be very wary of accepting that POV, which many gay people including myself feels comes across as wildly anti-gay activist, at face value. It is NOT any kind of mainstream opinion by any means. Putin scapegoats the gays. Some gay character on thaivisa scapegoats one Russian gay activist. It doesn't wash. The BLAME is on Putin but without a homophobic people to approve of the scapegoating, it wouldn't work.

Putin criminalizes gay propaganda. Like a rainbow pin. So threatening. I think we are hearing some bizarre anti-gay ACTIVIST propaganda right here, even to a level of PUTIN apologist.

If this sounds strong, consider what I am reacting to -- a VERY RADICAL anti gay activist agenda.

[partington]

"Don't make a fuss and the people who hate us will let us be." Extraordinary.

Stay at the back of the bus Rosa!

[Jingthing]

"Don't make a fuss and the people who hate us will let us be." Extraordinary.

Stay at the back of the bus Rosa!

Yes, it beggars belief, doesn't it?

[LeCharivari]

This news story concerns Russia, not Jamaica. Yes, there are nations more homophobic than Russia, which is saying something these days, but right now Russia is under the spotlight because of Putin's new anti-gay laws, the Neo Nazi violent attacks, and Sochi coming up. Culturally, Russia has a connection to Europe and we don't expect such countries to be so ruthlessly scapegoating minorities in this day and age. We can't talk about everything in the world in one thread, can we?

(Also note, Jamaica has under 3 million people, Russia 143 million.)

Hardly.

"right now Russia is under the spotlight" because for a number of reasons, the primary one being Edward Snowden. By comparison the issue of the gay propaganda law has had little international attention.

[Scott]

I have deleted some off-topic posts and this thread is NOT about American politics. Because someone is gay does not mean they can't be anti-gay.

The nonsense that has gone on in the thread in the gay sub-forum will not be permitted here. So, to the regulars posting here, post at your own peril. Your in public now.