Enjoyed many humorous remarks. None of them valid for me.

But I would leave and never look back if/when 50% of Thai population will get Chula Degree.

And, please don't tell me things cannot go this way in Thailand. Thai 'culture' has features conducive to spread of nazi ideas.

Already made that decision.

After spending 18 years in the country (pretty much my whole adult life) I will be leaving next year. This is for a number of reasons:

Firstly, my kids' education. I can't afford any more than the basic private school they're in, and I'm worried for their future. My 8-year-old son's creativity and love of learning is being sucked out of him... and he used to have loads of both.

Secondly, my 'career'. Yes, I suppose if forced to, I COULD do this same teaching job for the next 26 years without killing myself or anyone else. But it would be bloody hard. And even the 1000 Baht pay rise I get each year would probably be stopped by my employer within a few years. And who can save money on a basic Esarn teacher's salary with a family to look after? Then after those 26 years, I would be at the age where a work permit is impossible, and I would have no pension whatsoever. Being a woman married to a Thai man, I would be able to renew my visa, but I would have nothing to live on.

Thirdly, I have started to feel more and more negative about the culture and society - and even the climate, geography etc. Of course nowhere is perfect, but I don't want to live in a place where the scales have tipped, and I find myself hating more and more things.

I'll miss plenty of things, especially being able to buy food absolutely anywhere, dirt cheap. But the time has come. My parents are ecstatic!

Because you think it will be better in UK or USA?

You think kids are better educated with their 80k $ loan they wil never pay back because there are no good paid job anymore.

You know the world collapsed in 2008 and it s still down.

You will run back to Thailand in less than 6 months. Bet?

I found this post quite interesting.

Why wouldn't it be better elsewhere? As I pointed out earlier, there are numerous reasons why someone would want to leave. Some of them applies to us as individuals only. This means there's no hard rule that can be applied to the issue and formulate a uniform answer to the question; "why should one stay or leave?"

There are plenty of well paid jobs. Interestingly enough, not many of them are available to those with a Thai education.

As for the quick return to Thailand (and I speak from experience), there is no sudden urge to go back. The first 12 month will run by so quickly you won't have time to reconsider. If you're lucky, you returned in the spring to whatever country you came from meaning the 12-month urge will be delayed by the summer. But then, when the winter finally kicks in again, that's when your brain starts playing games.

In addition, one of the worst emotional obstacles when you return is the expectation that others will be thrilled and envy your experiences. They won't. In fact, not many are interested, and considering the emotional attachment many of us have to Thailand, this will add to the perception of hostility; no one cares who you are, where you've been or why you went there. When you reach this point - and many will - the idea of going back to Thailand is appealing compared to remaining in your home country as the stranger you have become. But it doesn't have anything to do with practicalities like education .

Interesting, Cheapcharly, that you seem to think your own reasons must be the same as everyone else's... I have no doubt that, as Forethat points out, the novelty will wear off fairly soon. But I haven't come to a major life decision like this without a lot of thought, and I am as sure as I can be that even after the novelty wears off, I will still be happy with my decision. As, I'm sure, will my kids, my parents, and perhaps even my husband... Like I said, my career's going nowhere, and my kids are unhappy in education. I'll take the lower standard of living (financially) in return for being in a place I feel I belong.

Actually, I have no expectations of what others think of my experiences. A lot of my friends back in the UK have actually lived in Thailand themselves. Others - well, it doesn't matter what they think. After 18 years of being stared at and asked questions, I am actually really looking forward to anonymity!

Lucie, don't forget to pay your tax as well. You won't make Very long back in the rip off country(uk).

Once you touch Heathrow with your plane, there is already 100£ of landing fee that will be "attached" to your flight ticket . Take it as a golden welcome

:-)

Good luck Lucie. 5 minutes after my paycheck quits coming here in Thailand, I'm arranging my way back, too- different country, different circumstances, different challenges, but a lot of the same reasons. Mostly because I like it better back there.

If theblether ever run out of topics ....enjoy your posts, keep it up laddie

Lucie, don't forget to pay your tax as well. You won't make Very long back in the rip off country(uk). Once you touch Heathrow with your plane, there is already 100£ of landing fee that will be "attached" to your flight ticket . Take it as a golden welcome :-)

In case you wondered, there are those of us with stronger commitment to our families than to our own ego. In my case, I had several reasons for leaving, all of which involved my family rather than myself. If I was alone, I would no doubt have stayed, but safety, wellbeing and education for my family is far more important to me than anything else.

The funny thing is, when I relocated to Thailand I made friends with three expats contracting for the same bank as I did. All three left within 6 months of commencing their contract, so I appreciate your understanding and interpretation of the term "flexible"; why couldn't the same logic be applied to people moving in the other direction?

What I'm trying to say here is that some of us are more prone than others to stick to our decisions. I only have to look at the childcare and available education to rule out the possibility of returning to Thailand in the next 15-16 years, why wouldn't Lucie be the same type?

Singapore is a feasible alternative that I'm investigating, but not Thailand.

Hell freezing over...or a ban or warm beer and cold women, whichever came first!

From my experiences here there are some expats that have to leave Thailand or they will destroy themselves with drinking and debauchery, so obviously one of the "attractions" of Thailand is also what is making them leave. Just my observations of expats life here. Some, the novelty wears off quickly and some it never wears off until they are either broke or morally destroyed.

Interesting run of comments there from Lucie, CheapCharly and Forethat.

We had a topic recently discussing the experiences that expats have when they return to their own country. One of the things I remember about returning was the feeling of being a stranger in my own country. After 5 years abroad you miss a lot of the cultural action that takes place every single day. People rave about TV programmes you've never heard, they use catch phrases that go flying right over your head. They discuss subjects with a passion that are important to them but passed me by, you can't help but feel one step behind the drum.

Every now and then I still hear about people talking about a group called KLF, apparently they were massive for a while then were gone as fast as they arrived in a flurry of stage managed photo op's. To this day I still can't get my head round why people were so excited by them. These days though with the internet it's a lot easier to catch up with the headline news. Local news not so. A school friend of mine was killed in a car crash and no one told me. I met her parents and asked after her only to be told she was dead. Not a good experience for any of us.

The reason I went back though was because it as in the best interests of my family. If it had been left to me alone I would have continued working in Germany or taken an internal company transfer to somewhere like Panama. Ah the dreams of young men.

The thing is though, Germany never left me, and to this day it still hasn't left me. If I ever see that b*tch that gave me Herpes I'm tellin' you

That's a good thing though, ( no, not the Herpes ), to be able to hold on to what you learned while you were abroad. Yes people are occasionally interested in your stories but not always. A lot of the things that you tell them are too alien to their experience. On cold winter nights you can have the luxury of replaying your life in your head, but in the morning you have to get up, go to work, and keep in mind the only thing that matters, and that's your families future and best interests.

This is ordinarily the biggest between singletons and parents. When you are a parent you give up the right to think of yourself. Well you do if your a good parent. Forethat is grafting in the best interest of his family. If he had a choice he'd be lying on a beach somewhere being fed grapes like a Roman Emperor, he doesn't have that choice.

There are going to be times that Lucie will be driven mad with frustrations and disappointments, but in among it there will be small victories. These small victories give you hope and you keep going. One of these days Lucie will see her kids attending an end of high school dance, which are fashionable in the UK now. ( same as a Prom) and there won't be a prouder mother on earth.

Life is not about being narcissistic, it's about sharing and sacrificing for the greater good for your family. Even we guys that have been divorced can look back with pride and pleasure at our minor victories in those days. Life is not about me, it's about us.

So I say good luck to Lucie, it's a wrench but it will be worth it in the end.

ps. I was kiddin about the Herpes.

Honest.

Life is not about being narcissistic, it's about sharing and sacrificing for the greater good for your family. <snip> Life is not about me, it's about us.

+1

We had a topic recently discussing the experiences that expats have when they return to their own country. One of the things I remember about returning was the feeling of being a stranger in my own country. After 5 years abroad you miss a lot of the cultural action that takes place every single day. People rave about TV programmes you've never heard, they use catch phrases that go flying right over your head. They discuss subjects with a passion that are important to them but passed me by, you can't help but feel one step behind the drum.

All true, but there are benefits of being the stranger.

For one thing, I can live quite happily in about 1/2 the square footage that I thought was required before my Asian adventure. I don't think I'll ever own another clothes dryer. I can be perfectly content without walk-in closets, 500 sq ft bathrooms, electric dishwashers and even an oven. I'll probably buy a moped to save gazillions on gas, and if I do buy a pickup- it will be a mid-size and not a 3/4 ton fuel hog like before.

I'll appreciate walking into a restaurant and ordering food with dressing on the side, or well done, or no MSG- and people will actually understand and comply. And going down to the hardware store and asking for a left handed smoke shifter and actually getting a left handed smoke shifter and not just a puzzled look. And when I go to the beach, I won't have to dodge the ladyboys and hookers or worry that I have parked in an "unofficial reserved spot" only to find my vehicle damaged when I return.

So there will be some regrets about what I left behind in Asia, but a lot of appreciation of the simpler things I have missed back home, and forgotten I have missed after 13 years.

And, unlike some posters, I'm amazed at how curious a lot of the folks back home are about what I have been up to in Asia. I'm not adventurous or especially brave, just picking up a paycheck in another country. It's all rather ordinary. So it surprises me that people do ask so many questions.

What would need to happen to have you questioning whether to continue living here?

47.98% total income tax on worldwide income plus enforced 19% VAT on goods and services like in my home country Germany

47.98% total income tax on worldwide income plus enforced 23% VAT on goods and services like in my home country Portugal

don't complain!

Income from bonds, debt certificates and interest from bank deposits in Portugal are taxed at 21.5%

http://www.gerardassociates.co.uk/content/tax-facts-portugal

sadly, it might be as little as a stupid new visa rule...TIT.

or maybe a bad divorce from my wife, i am too young to start again here

Enjoyed many humorous remarks. None of them valid for me.

But I would leave and never look back if/when 50% of Thai population will get Chula Degree.

And, please don't tell me things cannot go this way in Thailand. Thai 'culture' has features conducive to spread of nazi ideas.

Hmm... could there be a connection between Chula degrees and the spread of nazi ideas?

My former boss (PhD) taught 35 yrs at Chula. One of the most outstanding folks I know.

Enjoyed many humorous remarks. None of them valid for me.

But I would leave and never look back if/when 50% of Thai population will get Chula Degree.

And, please don't tell me things cannot go this way in Thailand. Thai 'culture' has features conducive to spread of nazi ideas.

Hmm... could there be a connection between Chula degrees and the spread of nazi ideas?

My former boss (PhD) taught 35 yrs at Chula. One of the most outstanding folks I know.

Boys from Brazil ??

We are all wired differently, all have a story and a past. Many would give a whole host of reasons, some would appear simple, some silly, some just strange and all because of the various circumstances we find ourselves in at the time or coloured in some way by the forge of our life experiences, any or all of those things would make a person leave and probably brought us here to start with.

My own reason to leave Thailand, all be it periodically would be to see family, time goes so quickly and friends and loved ones begin to pass with an unerving frequency as you start to advance in years and you to tend to savour those times you have with them a little more, never knowing if this trip it will be the last time you get with them.

The other reason is sanity, and this comes back to how you are made or individual circumstances, you may find that an odd remark but for me it is and was very relevant. People dont often realise that living in a quiet backwater with little or no actual face contact with like people can and does damage your mental health, isolation can over time have quite a dramatic and frieghtening consequence, some can without realising become depressed, lonely etc without even knowing it and as we have probably all witnessed out here become a little too dependant on drink every day as a result.

I enjoy Thailand, love my wife and her family but now each year I leave to go back to my " roots" to see family, say goodbye to old friends and to save my sanity and swim out of the small pool and stretch the legs and mind out in the wide world for awhile before returning to the tranquility of the backwater.

Enjoyed many humorous remarks. None of them valid for me.

But I would leave and never look back if/when 50% of Thai population will get Chula Degree.

And, please don't tell me things cannot go this way in Thailand. Thai 'culture' has features conducive to spread of nazi ideas.

Hmm... could there be a connection between Chula degrees and the spread of nazi ideas?

My former boss (PhD) taught 35 yrs at Chula. One of the most outstanding folks I know.

I do not know any of the Profs or Lecturers at Chula. I accept your judgment. I had to refer to a certain socio-political phenomenon in one word, thus 'Chula'.

Speaking of the phenomenon, or rather phenomena - schoolies parades, fried chicken shops and Uni Graduates parades - are not accidental in my opinion.

I think these are the signs of things to come or rather coming.

It is my opinion. And that is the only reason I would definitely leave Thailand if/when the further developments are to follow.

Being a joker I appreciate jokes. Nazism is no joking matter.

A better overall job offer!

Usa invading Thailand... And I will be out...

If England & Great Britain & United Kingdom & UK & Britain & U.K. tried to colonize 1/3 of the world again and this time included Thailand, I'd be out.

Oh wait. UK expats have invaded and colonized Thailand. Never mind.

The fact of the mater is somewhat in contra taunt with your hypothesis. If the British Govenment had it's way in 1945 ,Thailand would have been an occupied country and by example of Singapore, Hongkong and Japan it may well have become a far more progressive nation that exists today. It was through intervention from the US that Thailand continued as a soverign nation.

In my opinion many of the expats living in Thailand who have the fininacial ability to live above the ground swell of the local environment are here simply for their perception of personal freedom with little or no concern for the stature and status of the country and it's local population. It is a I'm all right Jack mentality.

Your examples of occupied countries prove why it would never have worked in LOS. Two of them are Chinese dominant populations and of course Japanese. Neither of those cultures are mai pen rai.

However, it would be nice if they had installed a pavement culture in Thailand.

I care about the local population as much as they care about me or my opinions.

We had a topic recently discussing the experiences that expats have when they return to their own country. One of the things I remember about returning was the feeling of being a stranger in my own country. After 5 years abroad you miss a lot of the cultural action that takes place every single day. People rave about TV programmes you've never heard, they use catch phrases that go flying right over your head. They discuss subjects with a passion that are important to them but passed me by, you can't help but feel one step behind the drum.

All true, but there are benefits of being the stranger.

For one thing, I can live quite happily in about 1/2 the square footage that I thought was required before my Asian adventure. I don't think I'll ever own another clothes dryer. I can be perfectly content without walk-in closets, 500 sq ft bathrooms, electric dishwashers and even an oven. I'll probably buy a moped to save gazillions on gas, and if I do buy a pickup- it will be a mid-size and not a 3/4 ton fuel hog like before.

I'll appreciate walking into a restaurant and ordering food with dressing on the side, or well done, or no MSG- and people will actually understand and comply. And going down to the hardware store and asking for a left handed smoke shifter and actually getting a left handed smoke shifter and not just a puzzled look. And when I go to the beach, I won't have to dodge the ladyboys and hookers or worry that I have parked in an "unofficial reserved spot" only to find my vehicle damaged when I return.

So there will be some regrets about what I left behind in Asia, but a lot of appreciation of the simpler things I have missed back home, and forgotten I have missed after 13 years.

And, unlike some posters, I'm amazed at how curious a lot of the folks back home are about what I have been up to in Asia. I'm not adventurous or especially brave, just picking up a paycheck in another country. It's all rather ordinary. So it surprises me that people do ask so many questions.

I'm always amazed at how little people back home want to know about Thailand.

doubling the annual required bank balance would have a bad effect

As someone who has already left Thailand... I think I can answer this one...

Unfortunately I had to leave because my kidney failed and my health deteriorated and I don't think I would rather be anywhere else than home in the UK around my family so they can support me etc.

Thailand is quite a lonely place, even if you have lots of friends around you. You're in a foreign place and you're a foreigner on their grounds, therefore I never quite felt like I fitted in completely.

It's probably much different for other people but that's how it was for me and I missed that feeling of fitting in comfortably and being part of something rather than an outsider.

Enjoyed many humorous remarks. None of them valid for me.

But I would leave and never look back if/when 50% of Thai population will get Chula Degree.

And, please don't tell me things cannot go this way in Thailand. Thai 'culture' has features conducive to spread of nazi ideas.

Hmm... could there be a connection between Chula degrees and the spread of nazi ideas?

My former boss (PhD) taught 35 yrs at Chula. One of the most outstanding folks I know.

Creating hatred against people who have done well for themselves ? I don't think it's Chula doing that.

As someone who has already left Thailand... I think I can answer this one...

Unfortunately I had to leave because my kidney failed and my health deteriorated and I don't think I would rather be anywhere else than home in the UK around my family so they can support me etc.

Thailand is quite a lonely place, even if you have lots of friends around you. You're in a foreign place and you're a foreigner on their grounds, therefore I never quite felt like I fitted in completely.

It's probably much different for other people but that's how it was for me and I missed that feeling of fitting in comfortably and being part of something rather than an outsider.

I hope you're as well as you can be and your health gets better soon.

Already made that decision.

After spending 18 years in the country (pretty much my whole adult life) I will be leaving next year. This is for a number of reasons:

Firstly, my kids' education. I can't afford any more than the basic private school they're in, and I'm worried for their future. My 8-year-old son's creativity and love of learning is being sucked out of him... and he used to have loads of both.

Secondly, my 'career'. Yes, I suppose if forced to, I COULD do this same teaching job for the next 26 years without killing myself or anyone else. But it would be bloody hard. And even the 1000 Baht pay rise I get each year would probably be stopped by my employer within a few years. And who can save money on a basic Esarn teacher's salary with a family to look after? Then after those 26 years, I would be at the age where a work permit is impossible, and I would have no pension whatsoever. Being a woman married to a Thai man, I would be able to renew my visa, but I would have nothing to live on.

Thirdly, I have started to feel more and more negative about the culture and society - and even the climate, geography etc. Of course nowhere is perfect, but I don't want to live in a place where the scales have tipped, and I find myself hating more and more things.

I'll miss plenty of things, especially being able to buy food absolutely anywhere, dirt cheap. But the time has come. My parents are ecstatic!

Because you think it will be better in UK or USA?

You think kids are better educated with their 80k $ loan they wil never pay back because there are no good paid job anymore.

You know the world collapsed in 2008 and it s still down.

You will run back to Thailand in less than 6 months. Bet?

I left last week for exactly the education above. Had a good job/business in Thailand. Have a better paying job already, car and benefits.

But, after 18 years, and not having back for a few years I am so glad I did it. As for your kids being saddled with 80k debt. Where can they find a job in Thailand that will pay 80k baht let alone 80k USD.

My kids can go back if they want to, but having the option to return to my home country, I am so happy I finally did it.

As someone who has already left Thailand... I think I can answer this one...

Unfortunately I had to leave because my kidney failed and my health deteriorated and I don't think I would rather be anywhere else than home in the UK around my family so they can support me etc.

Thailand is quite a lonely place, even if you have lots of friends around you. You're in a foreign place and you're a foreigner on their grounds, therefore I never quite felt like I fitted in completely.

It's probably much different for other people but that's how it was for me and I missed that feeling of fitting in comfortably and being part of something rather than an outsider.

I think health issues - particularly serious one would change one's perspective.

Good luck with your recovery.

I'm always amazed at how little people back home want to know about Thailand.

I used to think this all the time about my travels / living abroad.

"Why don't they want to know?"

"Why don't they ask questions about all the places around the world I've visited and instead insist on telling me mundane stuff about back home?"

Then I soon realized that no one cares.

Just like I am not interested in most of the stuff they are, whatever that may be.

If people did care or were interested about Thailand or traveling around the world they would be doing it.

The ones who have some sort of interest but are not doing it are probably pissed off / jealous that they can't / are too scared / chose not to so they aren't going to sit and ask you loads of questions and show you how envious they are.

Now I don't even attempt to tell or show anyone anything about my travels around the world. If they want to know they can ask.

Yes, nobody is interested about your life?

Are you interested about their life?

Same for money, you lose all, nobody will cares.

Your lady took your house? good lesson for you but people don't really care. You are sick? Go treat yourself... I pity you, I m OK...

When I come back to Europe, people tell me " it s better here,"

No "is it better here or there?? ", in fact they want say "you back here because it s better here".

I answer by " Yes it s ok here" instead of "I came back to get an thai visa" :-)

I'm always amazed at how little people back home want to know about Thailand.

I used to think this all the time about my travels / living abroad.

"Why don't they want to know?"

"Why don't they ask questions about all the places around the world I've visited and instead insist on telling me mundane stuff about back home?"

Then I soon realized that no one cares.

Just like I am not interested in most of the stuff they are, whatever that may be.

If people did care or were interested about Thailand or traveling around the world they would be doing it.

The ones who have some sort of interest but are not doing it are probably pissed off / jealous that they can't / are too scared / chose not to so they aren't going to sit and ask you loads of questions and show you how envious they are.

Now I don't even attempt to tell or show anyone anything about my travels around the world. If they want to know they can ask.

Totally.

I think the reason they're not interested is a genetic personality feature, and it's not just the complete dispassion towards remote cultures and experiences someone else has gathered from journeys far away; it's usually anything that deviates from the normal and boring everyday life that for some reason doesn't generate any interest. I sometimes refer to this as people with a "small world". Culturally active individuals tend to make up the exception, but I dont think a single one of my colleagues at the office has ever asked me about anything related to any of the 40 countries where I have worked, or any of the many countries where I have lived (including Thailand). BUT, raise a trivial topic like past weekends Premier League football and there will be a massive gathering around your desk within seconds.

However, one has to acknowledge that the "lived in Thailand" experience is rather subjective in its kind. Each of us who has lived in Thailand recognise the emotional bond that is locked inside us, made possible by sacrifice and fortune. We carry this bond with us when we go home, and it is only natural that we want to share this wonderful thing with others, and why wouldn't you experience disappointment if not a single soul is interested? The sooner one appreciates that one don't HAVE to share this, the better. If they are interested they can ask, and if they dont ask they will not be able to comprehend anyway.

Enjoyed many humorous remarks. None of them valid for me.

But I would leave and never look back if/when 50% of Thai population will get Chula Degree.

And, please don't tell me things cannot go this way in Thailand. Thai 'culture' has features conducive to spread of nazi ideas.

Hmm... could there be a connection between Chula degrees and the spread of nazi ideas?

My former boss (PhD) taught 35 yrs at Chula. One of the most outstanding folks I know.

Creating hatred against people who have done well for themselves ? I don't think it's Chula doing that.

Sorry, it must be my fault, but I do not see your point. Could you explain it, please.