Trust, not in Thailand

[seajae]

Last year we were looking to lease some land close to our home so I could start my cross pollination business, didnt want anything large, just a small block of land up to a rai. A very good friend of my wifes family heard what we were doing and offered us the block next to her new house, it was only around the corner so we took her up. She offered it at very reasonable rent and said we could use it for as many years as needed and always had the chance to buy it at a good price. I spent the next few months having the land cleared, having several truck loads of good top soil brought in and levelled then had a fence put around it. I was originally pumping water from a nearby dam but I wasnt happy with it so I was hooked in to the water supply and had taps stationed around the block. We now have 400 trees growing there plus a few hundred seedlings from succesful crosses, some of the varieties are unique world wide to me and were brought over from my collection in Australia plus others are what I have developed here. I have invested in some excellent fertilizer(from a fellow TV member), regularly spray to kill all the weeds in and around the block, brought in several thousands worth of additives for the soil(poo, coconut chips, blended soil, rice husks etc) to improve the growth medium around the trees and I even water and prune the fruit trees the owner had planted in it, when I started you couldnt even see them amongst the weeds.

ON Sunday while I was recording my latest croses my wife dropped in and spoke to the owner, she informed us that she wanted to sell the block now that it was looking so good, no mention of the fact we had paid for a years rent and still had a lot of months to go or what we were supposed to do with all the trees or aboput the money spent setting the block up. TO say I wasnt happy would be an under statement, yesterday when I went there to water all the seedlings we had no water and when I walked around the neighbours fence to see why I found all the pipes connecting us had been removed, no water equals a lot of dead trees and seedlings and a good way to make us leave. Her son is the head policeman at the police training centre(the house is his) not far away so doing anything stupid is out of the question, I realize we should have had a contract written up which I wanted but the family said that she was very trustworthy and would not do anything bad, looks like their idea of a good friend has flown, money beats everything here obviously.

We are left in a very hard position, I was hoping to start selling by the end of the year but that is now gone and it looks like I will lose everything I have invested in this and likely the trees as well, I had several people looking at buying from overseas but I cannot start cuttings now as it is the wet season so thats gone too. Just goes to show that thai people cannot be trusted at all where money is concerned, we looked at buying the block but she wants an unrealistic price that is almost twice what she originally told us last year. Not much we can do about it, wife has been in tears for the last 2 days over it, I am just getting more angry by the minute and extremely frustrated, really feel like going around there and taking it out on the new house but will restrain myself, XXXXXXX thai friends........

[Jasun]

"I realize we should have had a contract written up which I wanted but the family said that she was very trustworthy and would not do anything bad, looks like their idea of a good friend has flown, money beats everything here obviously."

What you said.

Don't suppose verbal contracts hold up in Thailand?

[theblether]

Why don't you promise her a cut of the "lucrative takings" available by the end of next year, give yourself time to strip and salvage what you can, then of course leave her high and dry next year?

Outside that, I must say that's a repulsive bit of mentality going on there, so sorry to hear that.

[somtampet]

Thai people cannot be trusted because u were stupid to not have a contract.

Is your wife trustworthy,her family/???

I had to sort out a stupid farang a few years ago,are all farangs stupid, i dont think so

[Berkshire]

Thai people cannot be trusted because u were stupid to not have a contract.

Is your wife trustworthy,her family/???

I had to sort out a stupid farang a few years ago,are all farangs stupid, i dont think so

Agree. The OP is talking about one Thai who is/was untrustworthy. ONE Thai. Which in his brain means ALL Thais are untrustworthy. So typical of the mentality we see on TV and makes me not one bit sympathetic to the OP's plight.

[bannork]

In my view Westerners use the word' friend' much more cautiously than Thais who will use the word 'pheuan' for workmates, classmates, people they know generally. But the OP says his wife considered her to be a very good friend, so either the wife misjudged her or she is a real bitch.

But the OP shouldn't distrust all Thais, there are plenty of good folks out there.

[Gsxrnz]

OP - in your home country would you consider renting a house or a property that you intended to spend money on without a formal lease or legal agreement, and also pay a years rent in advance?

If the answer is NO, then why the hell would you do it in a foreign country?

If the answer is YES, then you obviously have no common sense at all and should consider this a cheap lesson on how not to set yourself up to be a victim.

If you want to label all Thais dishonest because of one landowners actions, then I suppose all people from your country can be labelled idiots by default.

"There are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid." -John Fowles

[JaiLai]

Contract or not this attitude is typical Thai, no 2 doubts about that.

[Gsxrnz]

Contract or not this attitude is typical Thai, no 2 doubts about that.

Sigh..........

[seajae]

OP - in your home country would you consider renting a house or a property that you intended to spend money on without a formal lease or legal agreement, and also pay a years rent in advance?

If the answer is NO, then why the hell would you do it in a foreign country?

If the answer is YES, then you obviously have no common sense at all and should consider this a cheap lesson on how not to set yourself up to be a victim.

If you want to label all Thais dishonest because of one landowners actions, then I suppose all people from your country can be labelled idiots by default.

"There are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid." -John Fowles

This lady had been a close family friend for around 40 years, I dont know about your friends but mine of that length dont do this sort of crap, maybe your friends are not trustworthy or you pay them to be friends but I know without a doubt mine in Australia are and they would help me in an instant if I needed it. If you cant trust close friends you have had for 40 years who can you trust, yes I left out some once in my rant but I was pretty pissed off when I wrote it but I did point out that I was referring to thai FRIENDS at the end of it, not everyone in Thailand. You must be a sorry little man if you dont have any friends you can trust, I took this lady on my wifes families say so, to do otherwise would have been an insult to them all and probably caused conflict, at the moment thay are all pretty down as they have lost face over this and I will not add to their dissapointment in this lady. Maybe you dont have anyone close to you but I do, my wife and her family, they are a big part of my life here and I will not do anything that will hurt/harm them, all you seem to care about is yourself.

I have scruples, you dont screw close friends or family, you also trust your them.

[seajae]

In my view Westerners use the word' friend' much more cautiously than Thais who will use the word 'pheuan' for workmates, classmates, people they know generally. But the OP says his wife considered her to be a very good friend, so either the wife misjudged her or she is a real bitch.

But the OP shouldn't distrust all Thais, there are plenty of good folks out there.

I dont distrust all thais, this lady was a very close family friend for 40 odd years, family get togethers, parties, weddings etc. The whole family are dumbfounded by what she is doing, they cannot accept it is possible and are very disturbed by it.

[pattayadingo]

Knowing full well how much time, effort and expense you were going to put into this project and you never got a written contract at all?

Do not blame the Thai for this. You have to take the greatest portion of the blame, I'm afraid to say.

[seajae]

Thai people cannot be trusted because u were stupid to not have a contract.

Is your wife trustworthy,her family/???

I had to sort out a stupid farang a few years ago,are all farangs stupid, i dont think so

Actually I put my faith in my wife and her families opinion or dont you have any faith/trust in yours. Between you and bershire the pair of you are both drop kicks and have no idea what believing in anyone is, my wife and her family are very trustworthy, dont know about yours, with your attitude they are obviously not trustworthy at all but then you probably deserve that with your attitude to others.

[seajae]

"I realize we should have had a contract written up which I wanted but the family said that she was very trustworthy and would not do anything bad, looks like their idea of a good friend has flown, money beats everything here obviously."

What you said.

Don't suppose verbal contracts hold up in Thailand?

yes I know but I was not prepared to belittle my wife and her family over it by pushing for the contract, especially when they had been close friends for 40 years.

[NCC1701A]

she is stealing your trees.

can you transplant the trees? otherwise burn them...

[seajae]

Knowing full well how much time, effort and expense you were going to put into this project and you never got a written contract at all?

Do not blame the Thai for this. You have to take the greatest portion of the blame, I'm afraid to say.

I realize this but I was not prepared to make my wife and family lose face or cause conflicts over it, I knew how much faith they had in this woman. Now they are suffering greatly because they know I put my faith in what they said about her by not getting a contract, to be honest it is their pain that hurts me the most because they are accepting the blame as their own.

[Gsxrnz]

OP - in your home country would you consider renting a house or a property that you intended to spend money on without a formal lease or legal agreement, and also pay a years rent in advance?

If the answer is NO, then why the hell would you do it in a foreign country?

If the answer is YES, then you obviously have no common sense at all and should consider this a cheap lesson on how not to set yourself up to be a victim.

If you want to label all Thais dishonest because of one landowners actions, then I suppose all people from your country can be labelled idiots by default.

"There are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid." -John Fowles

This lady had been a close family friend for around 40 years, I dont know about your friends but mine of that length dont do this sort of crap, maybe your friends are not trustworthy or you pay them to be friends but I know without a doubt mine in Australia are and they would help me in an instant if I needed it. If you cant trust close friends you have had for 40 years who can you trust, yes I left out some once in my rant but I was pretty pissed off when I wrote it but I did point out that I was referring to thai FRIENDS at the end of it, not everyone in Thailand. You must be a sorry little man if you dont have any friends you can trust, I took this lady on my wifes families say so, to do otherwise would have been an insult to them all and probably caused conflict, at the moment thay are all pretty down as they have lost face over this and I will not add to their dissapointment in this lady. Maybe you dont have anyone close to you but I do, my wife and her family, they are a big part of my life here and I will not do anything that will hurt/harm them, all you seem to care about is yourself.

I have scruples, you dont screw close friends or family, you also trust your them.

I'll ignore all the aspersions about my character. I did label you an idiot with no common sense, so you're entitled to throw some <deleted> back.

Even in Australia they have a government department charged with settling family/friend disputes. Families and close friends have extremely high levels of disputes over land, estates, loans, money, agreements etc. The reason for this is because in general, family and "life long friends" believe they can trust each other and as you put it, "you don't screw close friends or family".

I wish this were 100% true but unfortunately it is not. I applaud you for your ethics and can only assume that you have always been true to your code.

As for me, I have a few friends here and at home that I would trust with my life (but maybe not with my wife), and have friends that would (and do) trust me with theirs. Unfortunately when it comes to the predicament you find yourself in, friendships are tested and it all comes down to the dollars. I've seen good friendships of many years break down over as little as a $500 loan, or the borrowed sand wedge that was borrowed and never returned - stupid little things.

I recently loaned a friend of 3 years 600,000 baht. It got him out of a major problem and probably saved him 50,000 baht in the long run (long story). I drafted a loan contract (copied from an Oz bank document and edited), had his Oz lawyer and Estate Executor acknowledge the loan and verify in writing that it was valid and that in the event of death I had a claim on his estate in Australia. I also received assurances that his estate was sufficient to cover my claim. Repayment dates were stipulated and interest was charged. I had to use my overdraft so only charged him the same as it cost me. I therefore did a favour for a friend and I had virtually zero risk.

EDIT: I should explain that I like this chap a lot and did not want to put our friendship at risk. I set it up so that even though he expected to be able to pay me back in a few months, if he was not able to, the contract allowed for this and even if I had to wait 20 years until he died, I had very little risk and it would not have bothered me.

He's since repaid the money plus interest. Everyone is happy and he's eternally thankful. My point being......when it comes to property or money between friends, there is absolutely no reason not to enter into a contract so everybody knows what the terms and conditions of the agreement are.

Quite simple really.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[guzzi850m2]

When money are involved things can quickly go down the drain.

I have a cousin that borrowed 3000 kr or roughly 15000 baht 15 years ago and I still haven't got the money back, needless to say I don't speak to this <deleted>.

I have a good friend that borrowed roughly 10.000 bath also about 15 years ago in DK and he paid me back in small amounts whenever he could and eventually fulfilled his promise.

Peoples true nature shows when "big" money are involved and then you learns who is a real friend and who is a cheating <deleted>.

Same here in Thailand.

I know about people here inside my village that borrow money between them(Thai/Farang couples) but rest assured that contracts are signed and their houses are used as guarantee.

[David48]

I recently borrowed $7,000 from my 91 year old Uncle.

He had the good sense to have a Solicitor draw up the contract and made me pay for the Solicitor's time ... $200 an hour.

I'm obviously in the wrong trade ...

.

[somtampet]

Thai people cannot be trusted because u were stupid to not have a contract.

Is your wife trustworthy,her family/???

I had to sort out a stupid farang a few years ago,are all farangs stupid, i dont think so

Actually I put my faith in my wife and her families opinion or dont you have any faith/trust in yours. Between you and bershire the pair of you are both drop kicks and have no idea what believing in anyone is, my wife and her family are very trustworthy, dont know about yours, with your attitude they are obviously not trustworthy at all but then you probably deserve that with your attitude to others.

I used to be able to do a great drop kick,when i was younger lol.

This ost is about u not any other poster.U posted on here for replies, u got em khun drop kick.

[easyride]

 

In my view Westerners use the word' friend' much more cautiously than Thais who will use the word 'pheuan' for workmates, classmates, people they know generally. But the OP says his wife considered her to be a very good friend, so either the wife misjudged her or she is a real bitch.

But the OP shouldn't distrust all Thais, there are plenty of good folks out there.

 

Sorry to hear of the OP pedicament. I wouldn't buy a brick in Thailand.

But there are plenty of farang shysters out there too.

[robblok]

I recently borrowed $7,000 from my 91 year old Uncle.

He had the good sense to have a Solicitor draw up the contract and made me pay for the Solicitor's time ... $200 an hour.

I'm obviously in the wrong trade ...

.

I think its normal to draw up contracts and such even between friends. Its not that you don't trust them its just a grantee. Even with my own dad we put things on paper so my brother can see it too so in the event of an accident it is all clear. I trust my brother 100% its just better to have things in writing even if nothing goes wrong.

[Berkshire]

Thai people cannot be trusted because u were stupid to not have a contract.

Is your wife trustworthy,her family/???

I had to sort out a stupid farang a few years ago,are all farangs stupid, i dont think so

Actually I put my faith in my wife and her families opinion or dont you have any faith/trust in yours. Between you and bershire the pair of you are both drop kicks and have no idea what believing in anyone is, my wife and her family are very trustworthy, dont know about yours, with your attitude they are obviously not trustworthy at all but then you probably deserve that with your attitude to others.

You said in your OP that "thai people cannot be trusted at all where money is concerned..."

Yet, you married a Thai. How can you marry someone that you don't trust? So either you are incredibly dishonest or incredibly stupid, which, I'm not sure.

[kingalfred]

Thai people cannot be trusted because u were stupid to not have a contract.

Is your wife trustworthy,her family/???

I had to sort out a stupid farang a few years ago,are all farangs stupid, i dont think so

Agree. The OP is talking about one Thai who is/was untrustworthy. ONE Thai. Which in his brain means ALL Thais are untrustworthy. So typical of the mentality we see on TV and makes me not one bit sympathetic to the OP's plight.

No !!he trusted someone who said the owner was trustworthy and no need of a contract.so he trusted 2 thais and of course there is only one dishonest thai in the whole country, No sympathy for not signing a contract.

[bigbamboo]

Why don't you promise her a cut of the "lucrative takings" available by the end of next year, give yourself time to strip and salvage what you can, then of course leave her high and dry next year?

Outside that, I must say that's a repulsive bit of mentality going on there, so sorry to hear that.

It's all very well saying the OP was a fool but he's looking for practical advice now.

As the old saying goes, don't get mad.... get even.

[pigeonjake]

if this so called freind is selling the land,,

just buy it then it will be yours, well your wifes

you said in the OP that you would be able to buy it at a later date, just buy it from them

[krisb]

Op I think your more angry with yourself.

[EyesWideOpen]

Cut down all the trees, and restore the land back to exactly as it was before you started work on it.

Or offer her some sort of cash settlement, as that appears to be what she is after.
And in the future, do not ever use the word trust in Thailand.......

[transam]

Where money is concerned, you have noooooooooooo friends. Got the T-shirt. Sadly.

[MegaRanter]

I rarely ever met an unreasonable Thai.

I did businesses with Thais of every societal strata for more than 10 straight years in Bangkok.

Always there were misunderstanding but we always talked it through.people tend to listen when I talk to them face to face, I respect them and respect me too.

If you don't talk or don't know how to talk to people is a difficult task to interact with people.

My ex wife was quick tempered, but I ll always smoothen all potential disagreement just by reason.

I once cancelled a cheque I gave to a company. I called and told them why. They did a shoddy job which my customer in SA was not happy with. They sued me to court. I went by myself and explained to the judge why I did what I did, and that meanwhile this company was still working on other things for us and getting paid. The judge ordered me to pay them as issuing a check is guaranteeing payment based on law. She also said I say the terms of bing abl to pay, at which I said one year to date, as I ll have to compensate my SA clients. We had a deal and everyonewas happy.

Most of the Thais I know are very trustworthy and dependable.