Phuket expats corralled by new immigration rule for passports

[Fullstop]

What a sad bunch these Patong/Pattaya 'expats' are. But they keep the headlines coming I guess. They DO have a purpose after all.

From a Chanthaburi expat. 555

[expat888]

Old rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 August with a new passport and immigration transfers all details to the new passport, in addition immigration gives you a new extension of stay, now till January 1 of next year for free.

New Rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 of August. Immigration transfers the details of your old passport to the new passport. So far nothing has changed. Now comes the new part. Instead of immigration giving you a new permission to stay till January 1 of next year for free your extension of stay ends on September 1 and you have to apply for a new extension of stay with all necessary paperwork for the extension. You now get a new 1 year extension of stay valid till September 1 of next year and pay the usual fee of 1,900 baht for that.

So you don't need passport valid for 1 year when you apply for an extension. Often it will be handier to get a new passport before you do the next extension if during that period your passport expires.

There is a transition rule for those who already applied for a 1 year extension of stay with an expiring passport. This time they just go to immigration when they have the new passport and get the details transferred and the remainder of the 1 year extension of stay in their passport for free as usual, without needing to apply for a new extension because the passport expired.

Applying for a new passport does not cancels your permission to stay. It just means you need to have the details transferred, including the permission to stay. But that permission to stay is no longer automatically extended. For that you need to apply (again) for a new extension of stay with all paperwork.

I'm a little fuzzy on this. It's my understanding that the extension cannot be transferred to the new passport and you must apply again for the 1 year extension. Is that not correct?

If getting the new passport doesn't cancel your extension, then why not just wait until your extension is up and apply again at that time?

Alternately.. why not just get your new passport just before your extension is up.

Edited August 30, 2013 by expat888

[expat888]

Thanks Mario;->Snip<

Applying for a new passport does not cancel your permission to stay. It just means you need to have the details transferred, including the permission to stay. But that permission to stay is no longer automatically extended. For that you need to apply (again) for a new extension of stay with all paperwork.<Snip<

That´s what I wanted to know..

I think that this means that if an extension expires but the passport has a few months left, one could get a new passport, have the details of the old extension transferred to the new and extend again as normal before the extension expires.

This way one only loses a little time on the life of the passport.

According to the Brits, they don't lose time if renew early.

[expat888]

asean 2015 my ass

this is just the latest: "we will show you you are just a tourist / we run the place here and you obay stupid farang and PAY"

100.000+ expats in thailand... when does TV start a UNION to fight for some basic rights here ???? i will gladly pay my contribution !!!

Too PC. Never happen.

[expat888]

In my case not quite sure what to make out of this new rule.

I'm a senior guy ... and I've been here too long for my own good !!

Please, clear up something for me

Present LT visa expires 13NOV13

Present passport expires 01OCT14

I was planning to renew my passport anyway this coming mid-October and then trot to ChaengWattana with both old and new passports a month or less before visa expiry to transfer present visa to new passport and apply new one-year visa on new passport all at the same time.

I did that successfully at last passport change.

With the new rule wouldn't the transfer mark the end of present visa and start of new visa on new passport that very same day ?

Thus losing a few weeks on visa - inconvenient for me as I sometimes need to leave LOS in October.

The rule applies to new extensions therefore in your case the balance of your current extension will be transferred to your new passport.

I was reading in a TV thread yesterday, a TV poster that was in immigration (real time on phone) said they would not transfer his old extension and that he had to apply for a new one.

[LivinginKata]

OK - A new situation!

Probably many of us have our extension to stay set at a date wherein we know we will be in the Kingdom. I do, since I lost my original 35000bt yearly extension due to missing the return date by a few days - that is history and I got my new passport and everything transferred last year.

However, if you renew your passport (which still has more than a year to go)n your home country before your next extension of stay renewal date, it sounds as if when you return to the Kingdom well within the extension of stay and try to have the stamps, etc put into your new passport, they will change the date of the extension which will start on the date you entered, even with a reentry permit! Plus charge you another 1900 bt

Not good if the new date is in the middle of possible traveling!

Why would your extension cost you 35,000 baht. The fee is 1,900 baht. I guess you are including travel expenses ?

Point of clarification - Current one year extension already granted can be transferred to a new passport. If you have a new passport issued before your next extension date then there is no problem. You present your new passport and have the one year stamp entered into that passport. This problem only occurs if you turn up at Immigration with a passport of less than one year remaining validity then you will only be granted a long stay visa until the date of passport expiry. Solution - get a new passport before your date of extension application, or just accept you will not be granted a full year extension.

[YeaBiGgiEs]

Why does Thai immigration have to have such a hard-nosed approach to everything and come up with these senseless rules? I'm sure its a rather small percentage of people who have permits/visas that extend beyond the expiration of their passport.

Love thy neighbor. Lets all work together.

EXAMPLE: USA gives 10year VISAS but THAI PASSPORTS are good for 5 years That means that EVERY Visa the USA issues to a Thai will have to be carried over to their new passport a minimum of 2 times and sometimes maybe 3.

Thai government should use their money on more necessary issues rather than come up with and create more hoops for us to jump through just to maintain a legitimate status.

[khaowong1]

Sounds reasonable.

I think most every country in the world apply's the same rule. Nothing wrong with this.

[LivinginKata]

Why does Thai immigration have to have such a hard-nosed approach to everything and come up with these senseless rules? I'm sure its a rather small percentage of people who have permits/visas that extend beyond the expiration of their passport.

Why do you think it's senseless ? It's always been the case that a passport must have at least 6 months validity for visa application. Frankly I have always been surprised that this rule did not apply to one year extensions. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[jayceenik]

In my case not quite sure what to make out of this new rule.

I'm a senior guy ... and I've been here too long for my own good !!

Please, clear up something for me

Present LT visa expires 13NOV13

Present passport expires 01OCT14

I was planning to renew my passport anyway this coming mid-October and then trot to ChaengWattana with both old and new passports a month or less before visa expiry to transfer present visa to new passport and apply new one-year visa on new passport all at the same time.

I did that successfully at last passport change.

With the new rule wouldn't the transfer mark the end of present visa and start of new visa on new passport that very same day ?

Thus losing a few weeks on visa - inconvenient for me as I sometimes need to leave LOS in October.

The rule applies to new extensions therefore in your case the balance of your current extension will be transferred to your new passport.

I was reading in a TV thread yesterday, a TV poster that was in immigration (real time on phone) said they would not transfer his old extension and that he had to apply for a new one.

Yeah, right. That's what I'm afraid of.

They don't want the hassle of transferring visas to new passports anymore like in the old rules.

Just give you a new visa the day you show up with your new passport - starting that very day !!

Last time, I did that just at the time I'd have applied for the new extension and I do remember that the officer grumbled a bit when unexpectedly faced with the two passports and having to do a transfer before giving out the new visa.

[Baerboxer]

I'd like to ask Col Napat how it's possible (for an expat renewing every year) to apply for a 12 month permit extension, 18 months in advance of a passport expiring? A UK passport can oly be replaced up to 9 months before it's expiry date.

Not true. You can renew a UK passport at anytime if it is full. My 10 year 44 page passports usually last about 3 to 4 years, then the pages are full. They will renew the passport on application. If you have not reached the expiry date they will extend the expiry date of the new passport to compensate but to a maximum of 9 months.

[Dark Knight]

Just another new rules to get money out of us expats......

[Baerboxer]

Thanks Mario;->Snip<

Applying for a new passport does not cancel your permission to stay. It just means you need to have the details transferred, including the permission to stay. But that permission to stay is no longer automatically extended. For that you need to apply (again) for a new extension of stay with all paperwork.<Snip<

That´s what I wanted to know..

I think that this means that if an extension expires but the passport has a few months left, one could get a new passport, have the details of the old extension transferred to the new and extend again as normal before the extension expires.

This way one only loses a little time on the life of the passport.

According to the Brits, they don't lose time if renew early.

UKIP will extend the date on your new passport by up to a max of 9 months if you renew early. Even if full way before that, and you renew they will still only give you and extra 9 months. I normally lose a few years worth each time, but that's the price of travelling.

[Halion]

The change in policy enables immigration officers to perform their tasks more efficiently, Col Napat said.

Please explain Col Napat (other than you no longer do something for free.)

Just like the address certificates.

How about charging for 90 day reports?

Yeah!! Go for it - we'll bend over and take it. What else can we do?

PS. "corralled" - perfect word to use showing how immigration look at foreigners.

That was the first thought that entered my mind when I this dramatic headline. Treated like Kwai.

[YeaBiGgiEs]

Why does Thai immigration have to have such a hard-nosed approach to everything and come up with these senseless rules? I'm sure its a rather small percentage of people who have permits/visas that extend beyond the expiration of their passport.

Why do you think it's senseless ? It's always been the case that a passport must have at least 6 months validity for visa application. Frankly I have always been surprised that this rule did not apply to one year extensions. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Is anyone tired of not getting what they have paid for these days? By all means any extra money you have to waste, I'll gladly take a deposit to my account.

Sure, 6 month validity for travel and extension/visa applications seems to be standard world-wide. But making it a requirement that someone get a new passport just because their extension will extend beyond the expiration date IS senseless. Furthermore I don't feel its a countries position to dictate when a person should renew their passport outside of the "6 month" rule. In that case it would take off a year or more of a passport holders validity that they paid for.

I as a USA passport holder paid for a 10year passport and want my 9.5 years usage out of it the same way a Thai citizen pays $160 for a 10year VISA to the USA and expects their 10years REGARDLESS if their country only gives a 5year validity on their passports.

My solutions are:

1) grant the 1yr extension up until the expiration of the passport (without prorating or refund for not getting a full year = more profit to Thai government)

2) make the possibility of a 6month extension and half the price (this is less likely because it saves the passport holder money and gets almost maximum use out of their passport)

.

[thaigold]

Fair and equitable. You want visa hassles try the US or Great Britain.

[expat888]

I think this has been handled rather......well...the Thai immigration people could have given 5 years notice this was happening andthe same people would be complaining about hoe Thailand hates farang. Your rants get very tiresome.

If you are unable to read a calendar, your passport details and visa excemption stamp and determine when to apply, maybe time to cut back on the beer.

OK. Now you are going too far.

[expat888]

Don't understand why there is mockery at all in this thread - all the immigrations does is trying to explain to us foreigners to renew our passports ahead of time, early enough to not run into any avoidable problems. So where is the problem here and why does the immigration's attempt to help and warn in a kind and appropriate manner result in another wave of "I've had it, they all just want our money, blablah" posts?

Overall I have had only very positive experiences when dealing with immigration here, in Phuket and Phang-Nga. Perhaps this is because I believe that what goes around comes around and because I always approach (private and official) people with my arms and heart wide open and with an honest and friendly smile on my face.

In my almost 23 years here I realized one thing: There are foreigners who permanently stumble into problems; may it be immigration, tourist police, business registration office, TAT, TOT, TT&T, electric office, government water office, revenue department, auditors, lawyers, business people of all walks, builders, carpenters, sales people, bar girls, girlfriends, ex girlfriends, and almost any other person around them...

These are the people sitting at the top of the Thai basher pyramid. Only problem is that they don't realize that THEY are the problem, respectively their way of approaching people, everyday situations, problem situations and eventually life in general. These people will always be miserable and will continue bashing officials, parliaments, governments and anyone in their vicinity, no matter where they live may it be Thailand, England, the US, Hawaii, Bali, or the Maledives... I feel sorry for them.

If you don't feel some strain from having to deal with this then I am guessing you don't have to deal with it. Maybe you are a teacher and the school takes care of everything for you.

[watcharacters]

asean 2015 my ass

this is just the latest: "we will show you you are just a tourist / we run the place here and you obay stupid farang and PAY"

100.000+ expats in thailand... when does TV start a UNION to fight for some basic rights here ???? i will gladly pay my contribution !!!

Are guests expected to have rights in LOS? "fight for some basic rights here."

[Mario2008]

Old rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 August with a new passport and immigration transfers all details to the new passport, in addition immigration gives you a new extension of stay, now till January 1 of next year for free.

New Rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 of August. Immigration transfers the details of your old passport to the new passport. So far nothing has changed. Now comes the new part. Instead of immigration giving you a new permission to stay till January 1 of next year for free your extension of stay ends on September 1 and you have to apply for a new extension of stay with all necessary paperwork for the extension. You now get a new 1 year extension of stay valid till September 1 of next year and pay the usual fee of 1,900 baht for that.

So you don't need passport valid for 1 year when you apply for an extension. Often it will be handier to get a new passport before you do the next extension if during that period your passport expires.

There is a transition rule for those who already applied for a 1 year extension of stay with an expiring passport. This time they just go to immigration when they have the new passport and get the details transferred and the remainder of the 1 year extension of stay in their passport for free as usual, without needing to apply for a new extension because the passport expired.

Applying for a new passport does not cancels your permission to stay. It just means you need to have the details transferred, including the permission to stay. But that permission to stay is no longer automatically extended. For that you need to apply (again) for a new extension of stay with all paperwork.

I'm a little fuzzy on this. It's my understanding that the extension cannot be transferred to the new passport and you must apply again for the 1 year extension. Is that not correct?

If getting the new passport doesn't cancel your extension, then why not just wait until your extension is up and apply again at that time?

Alternately.. why not just get your new passport just before your extension is up.

The point is that the permission to stay is transferred to the new passport.

But under the new rule, if you have a passport that expires the permission to stay will only be till the day your passport expires. Go to immigration with your new passport and they will transfer your permission to stay to your new passport. But as that permission to stay expires when the old passport expires, you now also have to apply for a new 1 year extension of stay.

If you go to immigration with a new passport because the old one is for example full or lost, they will still give you the permission to stay date that was in the old passport. You get the old permission to stay back.

Getting only the old permission to stay back when you have a new passport is the key element here. The only thing that has changed is that they no longer give you the extra 4 months in your new passport, if your current passport is only valid for 8 months.

[BudRight]

Fair and equitable. You want visa hassles try the US or Great Britain.

The US offers 10 year multiple entry visas - six months per entry - that stay valid regardless of when your passport expires. You just present your expired passport with your new passport when you enter the country. 3000 baht.

If you get married during one of those stays you become instantly eligible for lawful permanent residency, which is about a fifth the cost of Thai residency.

[NamKangMan]

Old rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 August with a new passport and immigration transfers all details to the new passport, in addition immigration gives you a new extension of stay, now till January 1 of next year for free.

New Rule:

You have a passport valid till September 1. On January 1 you apply for a 1 year extension of stay. Immigration gives you an extension of stay till September 1 and tells you to return to immigration with a new passport before September 1. (If you come back after Sept 1 you don't have a valid permission to stay anymore and are fined for overstay).

You go back to immigration on 15 of August. Immigration transfers the details of your old passport to the new passport. So far nothing has changed. Now comes the new part. Instead of immigration giving you a new permission to stay till January 1 of next year for free your extension of stay ends on September 1 and you have to apply for a new extension of stay with all necessary paperwork for the extension. You now get a new 1 year extension of stay valid till September 1 of next year and pay the usual fee of 1,900 baht for that.

So you don't need passport valid for 1 year when you apply for an extension. Often it will be handier to get a new passport before you do the next extension if during that period your passport expires.

There is a transition rule for those who already applied for a 1 year extension of stay with an expiring passport. This time they just go to immigration when they have the new passport and get the details transferred and the remainder of the 1 year extension of stay in their passport for free as usual, without needing to apply for a new extension because the passport expired.

Applying for a new passport does not cancels your permission to stay. It just means you need to have the details transferred, including the permission to stay. But that permission to stay is no longer automatically extended. For that you need to apply (again) for a new extension of stay with all paperwork.

I'm a little fuzzy on this. It's my understanding that the extension cannot be transferred to the new passport and you must apply again for the 1 year extension. Is that not correct?

If getting the new passport doesn't cancel your extension, then why not just wait until your extension is up and apply again at that time?

Alternately.. why not just get your new passport just before your extension is up.

The point is that the permission to stay is transferred to the new passport.

But under the new rule, if you have a passport that expires the permission to stay will only be till the day your passport expires. Go to immigration with your new passport and they will transfer your permission to stay to your new passport. But as that permission to stay expires when the old passport expires, you now also have to apply for a new 1 year extension of stay.

If you go to immigration with a new passport because the old one is for example full or lost, they will still give you the permission to stay date that was in the old passport. You get the old permission to stay back.

Getting only the old permission to stay back when you have a new passport is the key element here. The only thing that has changed is that they no longer give you the extra 4 months in your new passport, if your current passport is only valid for 8 months.

"if you have a passport that expires the permission to stay will only be till the day your passport expires" - just to clarify, you go to your Embassy in Bangkok and get a new passport. They cancel the old passport (usually cutting the photo page) and issue you a new passport. At that precise moment, are you not in Thailand illegally?

[snooky]

OK - A new situation!

Probably many of us have our extension to stay set at a date wherein we know we will be in the Kingdom. I do, since I lost my original 35000bt yearly extension due to missing the return date by a few days - that is history and I got my new passport and everything transferred last year.

However, if you renew your passport (which still has more than a year to go)n your home country before your next extension of stay renewal date, it sounds as if when you return to the Kingdom well within the extension of stay and try to have the stamps, etc put into your new passport, they will change the date of the extension which will start on the date you entered, even with a reentry permit! Plus charge you another 1900 bt

Not good if the new date is in the middle of possible traveling!

Why would your extension cost you 35,000 baht. The fee is 1,900 baht. I guess you are including travel expenses ?

Point of clarification - Current one year extension already granted can be transferred to a new passport. If you have a new passport issued before your next extension date then there is no problem. You present your new passport and have the one year stamp entered into that passport. This problem only occurs if you turn up at Immigration with a passport of less than one year remaining validity then you will only be granted a long stay visa until the date of passport expiry. Solution - get a new passport before your date of extension application, or just accept you will not be granted a full year extension.

Sorry I confused you - I was referring to the old visa extensions (retirement, if you will) that only required an income of about 35,000 bt monthly as opposed to the current requirement of 65,000 bt monthly which was changed during Dr T's administration so only the wealthy could afford to stay here. Had I not lost that visa extension, I would currently be grandfathered into the 35,000 bt income requirement.

[Colabamumbai]

Sounds like they just want another 1,900 Baht. Just going to add to the number of overstays due to people not understanding or at this point just not giving a shit any more.

Depending on your visa type and extensions not everyone may be able to abide by the new rule. If you work and change employers regularly, everyones scenario is different.

I know a gentleman living and working here he has had no passport for 11 years, his employer does not care, the police where he lives do not care, they call him to speak English when they have a problem.

I do not think that he will be affected by the new regulations.

[kingstonkid]

Hey what is the big fuss. This is a small issue and min my mind price to pay to live in this country.

how many of you that are b!tching about prices pay taxes?

Let's face it it is not that big a deal.

I am a proud Canuck, (rather that than obama boy)

BUT I like the cost of living, weather and the people here.

Are there things that piss me off hugely you bet.

But that is life and you live with it.

there is not a country in the world that does not have issues

I would normally give up about 6 months on my passport as I am not the type to wait to the last minute to get things done.

The problem I see here and with a lot of EXPATS is that we sometimes forget that

a) we are guests i this country and

you want everything to be great for you and that you want a free ride with all the benefits.

C)

[timewilltell]

Here is the Announcement from Immigration.

Announcement

According to the New Regulation from August 13, 2013,

when submitting application for Visa Extension if the validity of passport of the applicant is not longer than one year left before expiry, the extension of stay will be permitted not exceeding the expired date of passport.

After the renewal of your passport of obtaining a new passport,

you have to re-apply for Visa Extension by submitting required document and paying extension fee ( 1,900 Baht ).

In case of overstay, the fine is 500 Baht per day.

There are two parts as I see it. Firstly an extension will only be issued up to the expiry date of your passport.

That seems fine and logical - to me at least.

Second as soon as you get a new passport you have to apply for a new extension.

This is the bit that is not so clear to me. As I read it the extension in your old passport is NOT carried over to your new passport. However the extension in your old cancelled passport is still valid? For how long?

Can you apply for a new passport and just wait until it is time to do your extension and then apply supplying the old expired passport with unexpired extension together with your new passport?

If not why not? If so you would only need to apply for your new passport to keep six months on it assuming you wan to travel or less if you don't want to travel (other than to your homeland). Why does Col. Nipat say you should have 18 months on your passport when applying for your next extension?

If you have to immediately get a new extension as soon as you get a new passport - how many days grace is there? Logically either the old extension is valid and should be transferred to your new passport albeit with an expiry date limited to your old passport expiry date, or it becomes invalid along with your old passport in which case we are all going to be overstaying.

Can someone explain the validity of your extension between cancellation and receiving new passport, and whether under the new rules (excluding the transitionary phase) you get the extension transferred or not.

[chrisinth]

I see all references to these new rules being addressed to expired passports. What would happen in the scenario of the passport itself not expiring until say, 2018, but needs to be replaced because it is full?

I know it is probably a stupid question, but I haven't seen this addressed yet.

BTW, this is based on one of the guys predicament at the moment; his passport is valid until 2018 but is full.

You would have a valid 1 year permission to stay in your valid paspsort. What you do under the new rule would be exactly as under the old rules. You go to immigration with both old and new paspsort and immigration transfers the details and permission to stay to the new passport.

Thanks Mario, what I thought

[NanLaew]

Thank you to TV and to the posters who have made this unequivocally clear and understandable. . .

Agreed.... and does anyone want to take a bet on how soon the first, "Help! Immigration REFUSED to give me my full 12-month extension entitlement!Just more proof they ONLY want our money! I am SERIOUSLY looking at Cambodia now!" post will appear here?

(or has it happened already. I slept between reading page 1 and posting this)

Edited September 1, 2013 by NanLaew